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Please remove the portion that attributes part of the Elders of Protocol to Eugene Sue. Umberto Eco provided no documentation where in the Les Mystères du peuple the passage is located which, considering that the book is well over 2,000 pages), makes validating difficult. I can confirm that I have read the entire English translation and did not find the passage he mentioned. My fear is that Umberto Eco made this up and figured that no one would ever check (which, given the poor prose of this particular Sue work is easy to understand). I think he did it as a joke and due to his love of conspiracies. He probably thought it was innocent, I do not. If Sue can be falsified then antisemitics will say that Joly is invalid, and that is certainly not the case (having read Joly as well). Now I will admit maybe it is in the French original, but without a citation, this should be considered unproven. ] (]) 00:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC) | Please remove the portion that attributes part of the Elders of Protocol to Eugene Sue. Umberto Eco provided no documentation where in the Les Mystères du peuple the passage is located which, considering that the book is well over 2,000 pages), makes validating difficult. I can confirm that I have read the entire English translation and did not find the passage he mentioned. My fear is that Umberto Eco made this up and figured that no one would ever check (which, given the poor prose of this particular Sue work is easy to understand). I think he did it as a joke and due to his love of conspiracies. He probably thought it was innocent, I do not. If Sue can be falsified then antisemitics will say that Joly is invalid, and that is certainly not the case (having read Joly as well). Now I will admit maybe it is in the French original, but without a citation, this should be considered unproven. ] (]) 00:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC) | ||
:I have wondered about this. In ''The Holocaust Encyclopedia'' (p503), Michael Hademeister wrote, "Yet, as Umberto Eco has shown, Joly himself made use of the popular fiction of his age, adopting passages from Eugène Sue’s novel ''Les Mystères du Peuple'' (including the classic formula 'the end justifies the means') in his ''Dialogue aux Enfers''." So at least one Protocols expert believes it. More than that I can't say, though I will change the weasel "Scholars" into "Emberto Eco". ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC) | :I have wondered about this. In ''The Holocaust Encyclopedia'' (p503), Michael Hademeister wrote, "Yet, as Umberto Eco has shown, Joly himself made use of the popular fiction of his age, adopting passages from Eugène Sue’s novel ''Les Mystères du Peuple'' (including the classic formula 'the end justifies the means') in his ''Dialogue aux Enfers''." So at least one Protocols expert believes it. More than that I can't say, though I will change the weasel "Scholars" into "Emberto Eco". ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC) | ||
:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> Please note that ] should only be made once a consensus has been reached |
:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> There appears to be a discussion in this section about the merits of this change. Please note that ] should only be made once a consensus has been reached. Please continue this discussion in another section on this talk page and gain a consensus before reopening this request. Thanks. — ] <sup>(])</sup> 23:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC) |
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missing references
Michael Hagemeister, https://en.wikipedia.org/Michael_Hagemeister Hanna Arendt, Origins of Totaliarism, https://en.wikipedia.org/The_Origins_of_Totalitarianism Bern Process original sources https://digifindingaids.cjh.org/?pID=477923#a23 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.66.147 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
Umberto Eco
It is weird that Eco's writings on this have been reduced not to The Prague Cemetery but to Foucault's Pendulum. In the latter, the Protocols are just a minor aspect in a vast construct of conspiracies. The former is about the Protocols, narrated by the person who faked them. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
- I've restored some information from an earlier version of the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:59, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
part of the intro is not good
There is "According to the claims made by some of its publishers, the Protocols are the minutes of 24 sessions of a meeting of the "twelve tribes of Israel", during which Jewish leaders discussed their goal..."
There is no mention in the Protocols of "twelve tribes", though "our tribe" (singular) appears. The source attributes these claims to the Protocols, not to "some of its publishers", so it is wrong, and it is also wrong that the "congress" was "led by a Grand Rabbi" as no rabbi is mentioned in the Protocols at all. Some publisher may indeed have made these claims, but we don't have a source attributing them to a publisher. Zero 06:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- Zero, I don't have time to fix this at the moment. If the edits were misleading, feel free to revert and I might redo some other time. SarahSV 06:15, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please remove the portion that attributes part of the Elders of Protocol to Eugene Sue. Umberto Eco provided no documentation where in the Les Mystères du peuple the passage is located which, considering that the book is well over 2,000 pages), makes validating difficult. I can confirm that I have read the entire English translation and did not find the passage he mentioned. My fear is that Umberto Eco made this up and figured that no one would ever check (which, given the poor prose of this particular Sue work is easy to understand). I think he did it as a joke and due to his love of conspiracies. He probably thought it was innocent, I do not. If Sue can be falsified then antisemitics will say that Joly is invalid, and that is certainly not the case (having read Joly as well). Now I will admit maybe it is in the French original, but without a citation, this should be considered unproven. 2601:646:9600:74A0:29A4:CB9:54B1:3552 (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- I have wondered about this. In The Holocaust Encyclopedia (p503), Michael Hademeister wrote, "Yet, as Umberto Eco has shown, Joly himself made use of the popular fiction of his age, adopting passages from Eugène Sue’s novel Les Mystères du Peuple (including the classic formula 'the end justifies the means') in his Dialogue aux Enfers." So at least one Protocols expert believes it. More than that I can't say, though I will change the weasel "Scholars" into "Emberto Eco". Zero 01:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit semi-protected}}
template. There appears to be a discussion in this section about the merits of this change. Please note that edit requests should only be made once a consensus has been reached. Please continue this discussion in another section on this talk page and gain a consensus before reopening this request. Thanks. — Tartan357 23:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
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