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Requested move 25 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested, unopposed. Dekimasuよ! 21:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

New Middle Collegiate Church → Middle Collegiate Church – The "New" of Middle Collegiate Church was applicable in the 1800s, when the former church buildings on Nassau Street and Lafayette Streets were ultimately moved to its current location in the East Village. The Church is now known only as Middle Collegiate Church. 108.176.6.66 (talk) 20:33, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Severity of fire

While we mustn't go overboard and use the past tense in referring to the church due to the fire, we don't want to understate it either. Multiple reliable sources, quoting the pastor, indicate that the church has been gutted, and some indicate that the church was destroyed or "nearly" destroyed. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 23:16, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, 'church building' because the 'official word' is that the community 'isn't going anywhere' (there is organizational continuity going back to 1628, even if the current teachings don't much resemble what was taught in 1628, although the denomination seems continuous). MaynardClark (talk) 01:17, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken:

• The New York Times quotes a senior minister as saying “I see a gutted building full of smoke,” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/nyregion/church-fire-nyc.html
• The New York Daily News describes "a raging six-alarm fire that left only its massive stone facade intact" and says Assistant Chief John Hodgens described both the vacant building and the church as “total losses.” https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-nyc-fire-abandoned-building-historic-church-20201205-ece2vdhwnnawfbacrdvvjtemcu-story.html
• The New York Post reported "A fast-moving inferno gutted an over century-old church in the East Village." https://nypost.com/2020/12/05/massive-east-village-fire-spreads-to-nearby-church/

The church was gutted. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 04:46, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Whether the church was "gutted" or not remains to be seen. The Post is the only one that uses that word in its own voice -- which is appropriate because "gutted" is a rather tabloidish word -- the Times quotes someone else (a non-specialist with an emotional connection to the church), and the Daily News describes the extent of the damage without characterizing it. Whether "total loss" equals "gutted" can be debated. "Total loss" is more of an insurance term than anything else, and "gutted" implies that the insides were totally destroyed but the exterior remains. You also ignored that the Times - the most reliable of the three papers - says "significantly damaged" in its own voice, which is why I prefer that description until a more definitive evaluation is available. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Bell

Many of the articles about the fire refer to the historic bell - "New York's Liberty Bell". Shouldn't there be more in the article about that ? -- Beardo (talk) 04:22, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I see more details have been added - great, thanks. -- Beardo (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

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