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Revision as of 21:21, 13 January 2007

Ernest Emerson is currently a good article nominee. Nominated by an unspecified nominator at 2007-01-05 Please use the |page= parameter to specify the number of the next free GAN review page, or use {{subst:GAN}} instead to find the next free page automatically. This article is not categorized by subtopic. Please edit the |subtopic= parameter on this talk page to include one. For a list of subtopics, please see Misplaced Pages:Good article nominations.

Biography B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. This article is currently undergoing a peer review.

	Martial arts B‑class
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Martial arts. Please use these guidelines and suggestions to help improve this article. If you think something is missing, please help us improve them!Martial artsWikipedia:WikiProject Martial artsTemplate:WikiProject Martial artsMartial arts B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Older entries

Old discussions should not be deleted - but archived. Old comments do have their uses and you can't be accused of cover-up.Peter Rehse 09:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Good point, Peter. I will do that in the future...is there a way to archive? I'm still kind of new to this. Thanks --Mike Searson 09:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

For someone new to this - its a very well done article. I'll leave a message on your Talk page about archiving. I rated it as a B but I think it could go higher. I'll mention that also in you talk page.Peter Rehse 10:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Peter, Thanks again, I've only been doing this off and on the past 4 months as time allows. Any advice you can give for improvement would be a big help. --Mike Searson 10:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not place advertorials into this online encyclopedia. Also, remember that you do not own any Misplaced Pages article, whether or not you started it, think you started it, did a lot of editing to it, or you have a long-term personal relationship with the subject. Please see WP:OWN. Cheers, Sam 20:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination

This article does not merit "Good Article" status, yet. It contains a seven thousand word advertorial for Emerson Knives, Inc. as well as link spam to the Emerson Knives, Inc. website. Ernest Emerson's association with Emerson Knives, Inc. is taken care of in the first sentence with a Wikilink to Emerson Knives. Remove the advertorial and the link spam and I see no reason why Mikey's little article can't be judged a "good article." Cheers, Sam 20:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sam, can you please explain to us how you are distinguishing spam from referenced text about an entity and person which both appear to meet notability requirements? Perhaps if we can understand where you're coming from, we can help you resolve this without edit warring (and please take care with WP:3RR). Also, language like "Mikey's little article" isn't productive. Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sam, your patronizing attitude is bordering on a personal attack. Please try to tone down your sarcasm and edit constructively. Thanks. Jeffpw 20:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Well I would agree that it is a tiny bit florid in places, but there is no denying that the claims are all well substantiated and the article is impeccably sourced. So instead of throwing brickbats, Sam, how about proposing some specific changes for debate? Guy (Help!) 20:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll be happy to, Sandy. This article handles Ernest Emerson's association with Emerson Knives, Inc. in the fist sentence. Readers can read all the joyful product announcements and the glorious history of Emerson Knives that Mike wants to tell them about by following the Wikilink. They don't need a seven-thousand word advertorial in the middle of a biographical aricle.

I apologize for editing the article while it was under peer review. A biographical article containing link spam and a seven-thousand advertorial for a corporation is, ipso facto, not a good article no matter whose definition you use. Consequently, it never occured to me that one could be nominated for Good Article status. Still, I should have looked for it.

As far as your reference to an edit war is concerned, notice how Mike calls in the admins almost every time someone attempts to edit one of "his" articles. I think a better understanding of "ownership" would help him a great deal here at Misplaced Pages. That's why I posted a link to WP:OWN. Sam 20:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sam Wereb (talk • contribs) 20:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Sam, you are continuing to make this personal, for whatever the reason. As a point of fact, neither Sandy nor I are administrators. Guy is, but I don't see that he was specifically called here to defend This article or Mike. Could you please confine your discussion to the article, and why you think that section is spam? It doesn't not look like spam to me. As Sandy pointed out, it is well reference4d, and seems to meet notability requirements. Jeffpw 20:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, exactly what am I continuing to make personal in what I've written about this article on this talk page? On second thought, I don't care. Nothing whatsoever that I have to say is personal. My only contention is that a biographical article should be biographical and free of business promotion. We should take the entire Emerson Knives section out of this article. Then it will be a decent article, albeit one written obviously by big, big fans. Users can easily follow the Wikilink (provided in the first sentence) to Emerson Knives and discover the rich history and many wonderful product offerings of the company therein.

When I tried to do this you stomped all over my user talk page and Mike tattled to the admins. Sam 21:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Sam, I am an admin and spend much of my Wikitime removing spam. This is not spam. The idea that the company info (as opposed to the bio info) be forked into the Emerson Knives article has some merit, but there is not so much that Emerson Knives could not be merged into this, either. So please, let's have some constructive suggestions, not arm-waving. Guy (Help!) 20:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to elaborate on Guy's point, I had a look at the Emerson Knives article, and see that there is much in this article that is not found there. In fact, this article seems to give a much more detailed look at the company than the main Emerson Knives article. If anything needs to be merged, in my opinioon, it is that article into this one. Jeffpw 21:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That's the direction I was considering, merging the Emerson Knives page back into this article after cleanup on that one, etc.

I asked for Sandy's help as she helped me alot with my writing and sourcing which is admittedly a step above a waiter scratching out notes to a chef. --Mike Searson 21:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep - I am not an admin, and it was logical for Mike to request my input, as I counseled his edits on the peer review (in other words, if he goofed, I'm to blame :-) I did ask Guy to have a look, just to make sure I wasn't incorrect here, since I am not an admin, and don't want to lead Mike astray. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

All very cozy -- and irrelevant. Advertorial should be removed. If not that, then I will support merging the two articles. I didn't think a merge would be debated, given the emotional investments people have made in their contributions to the other article. If merged, then the link the Emerson Knives corporation's website is justifiable. Until then it is linnk spam as defined by Misplaced Pages.

Peer review

For reference, here is the peer review, which is hidden in a drop-down on those silly templates. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• GAN error
• Good article nominees
• Good article nominees awaiting review
• Good article nominees without a subtopic
• B-Class biography articles
• Requests for Biography peer review
• WikiProject Biography articles
• B-Class Martial arts articles