User talk:Bishonen: Difference between revisions

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	Hi there, I noticed that you have indef blocked User:Guardian Tiger. May I ask what are the grounds for that blocking, aside from User:Guardian Tiger being the same person as User:RevolverOcelotX? I was of the understanding that only ''abusive'' sockpuppets get blocked. Checking through User:Guardian Tiger's history, I didn't see anything which is particularly abusive. --] (]) 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)		Hi there, I noticed that you have indef blocked User:Guardian Tiger. May I ask what are the grounds for that blocking, aside from User:Guardian Tiger being the same person as User:RevolverOcelotX? I was of the understanding that only ''abusive'' sockpuppets get blocked. Checking through User:Guardian Tiger's history, I didn't see anything which is particularly abusive. --] (]) 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
	::I see. Did you click on , which was part of my block message to Guardian Tiger? 's some stalking. 's a removal of a talkpage post on the argument that it's a "diatribe." 's a discussion on ], showing that uninvolved admins who have reviewed the block agree about the abuse. ] \| ] 23:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC).		::I see. Did you click on , which was part of my block message to Guardian Tiger? 's some stalking. 's a removal of a talkpage post on the argument that it's a "diatribe." 's a discussion on ], showing that uninvolved admins who have reviewed the block agree about the abuse. ] \| ] 23:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

			::: I see. By analogy, User:Certified.Gangsta should have been blocked a long time ago.
			::: Here is a comparison "proving" that he is a "sockpuppet" of User:Bonafide.Hustla: ] vs ].
			::: is a removal of a talkpage post on the purported basis that it's an "unjust accusation".
			::: is a racist attack.
			::: , , and are some evidence of stalking.
			::: , , and are some evidence of systematic vandalism.
			::: No, I don't agree with the approach of User:RevolverOcetlotX or whatever he's called this week, but I find it ridiculous that someone like ], who is either a blatant vandal and troll, or ignorant as a cucumber, can be allowed to run around wasting everyone else's time when others who are not nearly as disruptive (i.e. User:RevolverOcelotX) are being indef blocked.
			::: If you don't believe me about the vandal/troll/cucumber comment, look through the history of the diffs I supplied above: almost every single one of User:Certified.Gangsta's article edtis gets reverted by reputable editors. No doubt User:Certified.Gangsta will claim that they are all the same people/all sockpuppets of each other/all Communist China stooges, but such claims only goes to prove my point.
			::: Anyway, I have vented my spleen. I have no intention to do anything about my dissatisfaction. Thank you for your time, and happy editing. --] (]) 12:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

	== User:Guardian Tiger ==		== User:Guardian Tiger ==

Revision as of 12:35, 15 January 2007

AnnouncementI've never tried to stop editing before; it wasn't as hard as I thought. How hard is it going to be to abandon something that's turned distasteful? I've been shocked at what Fred Bauder calls "the dynamics" of the #wikipedia-en-admins IRC channel, which Fred says that he doesn't understand. I guess it really doesn't sound like you do, Fred. I don't exactly understand the dynamics myself either, but I happen to know something about what goes on there. I've looked out the footnoted bits of logs here for the benefit of those who need to know, at least those among them who have access to the logs themselves. Surely arbitrators do have, or can get, such access? But merely having access is not enough, the logs remain protected from the eye of penetration by sheer size. However, logs are simply searchable text, and that's where my footnote to selected extracts comes in. I hope many people will be able to read those log extracts, and have the curiosity to do it. They're no violations of privacy or personal attacks, so please restore the references to them if anybody should remove them from this page. I'm very sorry I can't simply post the extracts themselves, to make them truly accessible to the ordinary user, but that is not allowed. (The reasons include both major privacy concerns and something to do with sacrificial goats and/or dead chickens, see the ANI discussions.)

From what some admins have said in recent threads on WP:ANI, the en-admins channel was different earlier, and usefully served the purpose it had been created for. Some of the time now it still does; but a dedication to working out "safe" block rationales and childish nya-na-na-na-na viciousness and squabbling fill a lot of it. The bad blocks arising from certain en-admins habits and imposed on good-faith and hardworking contributors like for instance Giano have been devastating for the individuals hit. Unlike many of my friends I don't believe this is inherent in the medium, but it does seem to center or cluster round en-admins. I simply don't know what the hell happened. Some sort of tilt in the balance of power? Some sort of refusal to see, or mental laziness? Simply a project that hasn't scaled? Or even more simply, was the viciousness alwayus there and, exemplifying the mental laziness, I just became a litle less naive when affected personally ?

Anyway. This is an announcement. Giano has said he's out of here, after one bad block too many turned into a proposal for "civility parole". Now it's a hopeful fact that he has said so before and yet returned, enthusiasm dented but contributions still excellent. Therefore, I won't say definitely that I'm out of here too; but I do say that unless Giano returns, you've seen the last of me. That's just to let my friends know, really. I'm as vain as the next person, but I certainly don't have any self-important notion that the project needs me or will notice or remember my presence or absence. Misplaced Pages would do just fine without me, and without all the people who're continually leaving with less or more fanfare. At lest, it would do fine if it was doing fine. I don't think it is doing fine. It can do without the individuals and never notice they're gone, sure, but what about the wedges being driven between user and user ? Bishonen | talk 22:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

Notes

December 22 from
"I need to issue a npa warning to an editor but I am Involved in a dispute with said user"
to
"before they could sue me" .
December 24 from
"Well can we discuss blocking in the general"
to
"and i think it's very obvious how unwelcome"
December 27: from
"bishonen: what happened on christmas eve"
and from
"In any case, that comment has caused some folks"

wow!

I read your announcement above and I'm not even sure if I am allowed to post here anymore. Anyway, I actually came to say good-bye since I'm leaving wikipedia , but it seems like you're a step ahead of me. Well I just wanna thank you for helping me out on many issues/disputes since my arrival despite my poor reputation in this project. Apparently all the best editors who have good faith in the project are gone. To me, it seems like the eventual downfull of this system. A failed experiment to a certain degree. I just wanna say you're the best admin I've met so far and it has been truly a great time working with you. :) --Certified.Gangsta 07:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Any thoughts on where you're going? Citizendium doesn't seem to be up and running, but there's commons, and if you speak another language, that opens up other options. Regards, Ben Aveling 11:27, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen, there were millions of human-hours invested into this project and there are not that many productive contributors. Every single one go hurts the project a big deal. I left a message on the Giano's talk and I repeat it here the clique of the admins you have problem with is relatively small and there are thousand of active admins and probably even more productive users. Go figure. I got my admin bit for a single purpose: to create workable and enjoyable environment for the productive editors. If I fail in this task I do not need it Alex Bakharev 13:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

A few thoughts

Hello Bish,

our paths have not often crossed, although I have followed your work with great admiration; nevertheless I thought I should leave a comment. I needn't repeat what a loss for the project it would be if you left, because that's abundantly clear, so just let me express my gratitude: there have been few contributors as intelligent, witty, productive, or cheerful, and, contrary to your thoughts, you have already left a lasting mark on Misplaced Pages. As for the social dynamics, it's much harder to tilt them into the right direction, but I am convinced that you have also done so. It has always been my impression of your style that you have remained firm in that civility is more than a buzzword, and that's a great achievement in such a hostile environment. If you foster thoughts of continuing with Misplaced Pages, I am sure you have been offered lots of advice; mine is probably just the same: get emotionally disinvolved. Delete your watchlist (that may be hardest bit, as predictably some articles lose in quality when one highly engaged editor fewer watches them. For me, it was an incredibly helpful step). Consider renouncing your admin status (the second really hard step; I am however convinced that it has helped me a lot to stay active at all and not leave for good in indignation). Take a long break. Keep in contact with a few selected Wikipedian friends. Rediscover real life. After a long while, look back and, if you feel like it, return with the attitude of an elder statesperson. I wish you all the best. Gott nytt år! Kosebamse 09:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey

Hope you are still lurking. I've made a similar, but less drastic decision. I'll still be writing some articles, but it's someone else's problem to fight over them, to look for vandalism, etc. And I'll think it over again in half a year, which I recommend that you do, too. - Jmabel | Talk 20:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Another very long time user, another serious contributor, another person in there, hip deep, trying to manage articles, and you're having to walk away from it, too? Great. It's not that there is turnover. We always have people fading away and fading in, but I see a clump of about four users who have been responsible for the departures of about six major long-time users, and generally with their own self-importance and bristling and revenge campaigns.
As I've recently written on my talk page: suppose you are insulted, even explicitly, by name, and accurately. Now, is that going to make you quit Misplaced Pages? Is it some place where it's unavoidable? So, what is the cost of that insult? Now, you're going to block that nasty user for that nasty talk and that nasty attitude. Is that more or less likely to make that user leave than the insult? Is that block going to make a long time contributor leave, or just a pest? Is it going to mean the departures of three other users? What value, exactly, do you value on your self-opinion? Is your character so important that the loss of four other users, even if they're only little contributing, worth your pride? What would it take for you to relax, to say, "Dang, I don't like that guy" or even, "Oh yeah, well, I don't like you, either?" For a certain knot of users, their own pride is far, far more valuable to them than the contributions of several others to the project.
Part of this is the danger of teen people, where adolescence means a constant battle for ego, but there are no brakes. Ugh.
Oh, and user:Geogre/Comic is working now. It's a graphic novel version of the latest dispute. :-) Geogre 14:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Let me add my own note to this litany of sorrow. You were the first person to really help me out and take an interest in my work here. To get such marvelous feedback from someone who, as I quckly learned, deserved such great respect heightened my own confidence in my contributions. Indeed, your talk page has been a learning experience, kinda like discovering a virtual 18th century coffee house filled with a marvelous assortment of fascinating characters. Looking about lately, it seems like everyone is leaving and the landscape appears more and more barren; littered with junk articles on worthless pop culture. I pray this isn't farewell. Take care, dear! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Saddened

Hi, thank you for spending the time to look over my RfA and comment. By voting in RfAs, Wikipedians help to ensure the quality and character of admins. I believe that you were acting from an appropriate sense of duty when you voted oppose. Nevertheless, I am saddened by the fact that you hold about me the views that you do. Please have a good new year. Sincerely, --BostonMA 14:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I answered you in part on my talk page.

I'm not sure I made the hugest amount of sense; I'm still up at 10:30 am having been up all new year's night, and I'm tired and not entirely sober. Probably shouldn't be here at all.

I'm not sure how I can express how it hurts me to see good contributors - such as yourself and many others - as burned out of this place as you sound. There is too much poison here. I have no good ideas of how to drain it. Good ideas from yourself and others are always welcome, if there are any. Something is very wrong when it is the people who do serious, intelligent, in-depth work on the encyclopedia who are wanting to leave.

I get the feeling that you thought I was talking about the problem as if Giano was the problem. That wasn't my intention - I was sounding out things in general, rather than specifically. My apologies. I will examine my wording in the morning.

Thank you. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

A note

Hey there. I never meant to pry, or badger you, and I'm deeply sorry if I came off that way. I'm not really acquainted too much with the situation, and I apologize if in my niavete or ignorance I've brought up things you have asked others not to bring up. My apologies, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 18:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate it. Bishonen | talk 02:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

Ghirlandajo

Bish, the same is with me: he is not answering my E-mails either. The last time I contacted him he was strongly upset by the recent developments but he did not have any intentions to leave. His lost would be a devastation blow for the Russia-related articles and a significant loss for Misplaced Pages in general. I do not know what to do and can only hope for the best Alex Bakharev 04:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

If it's any help, recall that on the arbitration page, Ghirlindajo wrote that he would be away in real life and pretty inactive here for a couple of weeks because of the holidays. Newyorkbrad 11:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, it is a good news Alex Bakharev 11:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

More specifically, see here (first paragraph, last sentence). I believe there was another reference elsewhere but haven't found it. Newyorkbrad 16:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Happy New Year, Bish! This year is only going to get better, mark my words! El_C 04:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

File:1953 S Novym Godom.jpg

Happy New Year! (Template:Lang-uk, Template:Lang-ru). I wish you in 2007 to be spared of the real life troubles so that you will continue to care about Misplaced Pages. We will all make it a better encyclopedia! I also wish things here run smoothly enough to have our involvement in Misplaced Pages space at minimum, so that we can spend more time at Main. --Irpen

Curious question

Bishonen, I have a question for you -- what's the purpose of this page? JusticeGuy 08:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, look at that. I can't believe I edited it as late as this summer, but clearly I did. It's some links to users that I've at some time wanted to be able to find easily, for various reasons.

I ought very much to tell you why you are linked on that list, and I've spent some time thinking, but I simply can't. I listed you in June 2006, as you can see, along with Frutti di Mare. I know what my interest in Frutti was—in fact, with some effort, I know why they're all there, except you. I'm reduced to asking: do you remember any interchange we've had, especially in early June..?

I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you. It must have been a rather weird sensation to find yourself listed like that, without any info about why... :-(. I will delete the list. (In any case, most of it obviously isn't any longer to users I'm interested in.) I created it when I was a much greener user, and I didn't see it as inappropriate then, but I do now. Bishonen | talk 09:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

I've only edited a handful of times (see my contribs). Could it be that you saw one of my edits to wikipedia:featured articles? JusticeGuy 16:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

You edited FA well after I added you to the list, so that don't make no sense to me. A mystery! Bishonen | talk 17:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

Hotel Misplaced Pages

Thanks for your thoughts. I suspect that most if not all dropouts continue to be present in some form or other, and I wonder if anybody who has ever become truly involved can even leave for good. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing for Misplaced Pages. Whether it's good for the individual user is a different question, but it's always a good idea to be honest with oneself. I have come to accept that you can log out any time you like, but you can never leave. My approach, i.e. casual editing as "admin emeritus", feels just fine, and harbours a little good karma into the bargain, so I'll go on with it. And as far as Giano is concerned, I can't offer much of a comment, as his story is too complex and too long for me to overview, but I have read the IRC logs in question, the arbcom case and a few other things, and would conclude that there's more at stake than the fate of one highly respectable user (plus yours and several others'). One question that comes to mind, quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I don't doubt that many Wikipedians will be tempted to step into the age-old trap and try to tackle a social problem by technological means - more bureaucracy, less transparency. If the problem is recognised at all. But I myself have no good idea what should be done, either. Anyways, please keep up your spirit, and again, all my best wishes. Kosebamse 13:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Butting in: that's the question I keep asking others to answer. For myself, I know the answer, as I didn't have to think it up. We, as humans in society, have had to sort this matter out already, in Athens and Rome. The answer is "all." Only community can assess the validity of the community guardians. That means making it possible and attractive for the community to see, and it means, very importantly, an educated community. We don't want to hang Senna the Poet. Geogre 13:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Cinna or Cinna, a poet killed for bad versing. Crowbait 17:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Even yet more thoughts

I don't think it's any secret that I am a very ardent (too much so no doubt) member of the Bishonen fan club. Your articles are an enormous pleasure to read and easily among the best we have. Anyone who hasn't yet read Restoration spectacular or S. A. Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition of 1897 should go enjoy them right now, and see what featured articles are meant to be. I know the act of writing around here has become less fun as time has gone by; I have the same problem myself.

Working and joking alongside you have given me a ridiculous amount of enjoyment over the time I've known you. I've looked inside myself over and over again and truly have no idea if I would be able to continue as a Wikipedian if you were to leave. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Carcharoth asked me an architecture question, and I think it's worth pasting my reply here.

"*The answers, of course, would come from Giano. My architectural expertise is limited to knowing where to find the door and the toilet. Giano knew estates, manorial houses, and architectural history, and he did the best job of writing up the architecture with just enough of the history to go in to illuminate without sidetracking the thing. It's a rare skill, despite what anyone will tell you. Any fool can crib from a reference work. Any fool with a library can compile the data from multiple references. An actual author, an actually good author, can balance information, synthesize points of view, and manage to present a cogent argument that is NPOV and representative of contemporary scholarship. That's what Giano did. It's what Bishonen has done with elements of British history, Swedish history, and theatrical history. I'd like to think I hit that a few times, too. A good article is not Frankenstein wiki-itis, where, like a sticky bun in the trash can, bits are sticking out in all directions...."

Polemics followed, but the point I made there stands. An actual author, an actual expert editor, does not just throw in reworded stuff (the way I've done several times...cited, non-plagiarized, but not exactly intellectually strenuous), but rather holds a thesis, merges information from references along a principle of selection, provides analysis without inserting the much-feared Original Research, and knows exactly how much sex and violence, how much digression and factual compilation, will work to make a good account. Such a person similarly has control of her language, varies sentence structures, provides surprises in the sound as well as sense of the line. That's what Bishonen does, what Giano did, and what my few best have done, and it is absolutely not a common skill. Geogre 03:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It is not a common skill. I am not very good at it myself (I just make do with cribbing from reference works, and compiling data from multiple references. But then I like sticky buns.)

Anyway, happy new year to you. As I just said to Giano, it looks like I missed all of the excitement. Funny what can happen while you are away for a few weeks. Please don't go, at least, not permanently. A wikibreak for a bit of fresh air is all well and good, but I (we) would miss you awfully. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

:-)

¿Why 1 9 9 1

Happy editing!!!--¿Why 1 9 9 1 02:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

MONGO likes candy

But am willing to share if you stick around!--MONGO 11:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Peter Mongo the legendary Monophysite? Crowbait 16:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Geogre eats billygoats and brownies

Sheriff Bart has a candygram, but I have brownies! They're on delft, so you might suspect that they're not my brownies, but I found them, and that makes them mine. Geogre 14:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your consideration

Thank you for the consideration you gave to my RfA. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. You were one of the oppose votes, and raised concerns. I am more than willing to discuss those concerns with you if you are interested. Please let me know. Sincerely, --BostonMA 12:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the encouraging words. A glass of beer definitely makes me feel good :). And I mean, the whole project right now is just a pain in the ass. I just reviewed my block log and found a couple of blocks that are either unjustified, unprovoked, or out-of-process. (you already know how much I resent that 1-second block) And admins on IRC conspiring/baiting to scare y'all away is just fucked up. (I know I'm supposed to be a positive role model and all that on wiki, but that's that.) Just scanned through some of the articles you and Giano wrote and it's like wow, I'm so impressed. Anyway, take it easy... can't type when I'm drinking, you know, so I'm outta here. Btw, I know this sounds lame and cliche-ish but there's always light at the end of a tunnel. Who knows? Maybe y'all might get to stay after all.--Certified.Gangsta 17:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Query

Hello Bish, all the best in the new year to you! Hoping you can explain why there are little numbers with a + or - in front of them on the articles displayed on my watchlist. Is this a new thing or have I just been missing it till now? Inquiring minds need to know! See you round the 'wiki. Hamster Sandwich 18:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The numbers show how many gigabytes were added or subtracted by the change in the article. Hope that helps. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Bytes, not gigabytes, though it's fun to imagine what it would be like if people were making gigabyte-sized edits. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Groovy. Thanks beautiful peoples! Hamster Sandwich 18:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If it's an edit I've done, it's terabytes. Geogre 22:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

You are thinking of Bishzilla's terror bites.

—Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Perplexity

Well, I looked at the diff, and I still can't figure it out. What exactly means "Un-sunkissing the puctuation"? Curiously yours, - Nunh-huh 01:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Er, it's supposed to be "punctuation". Giano punctuates lightly, with occasional run-on sentences, and is fond of claiming that this characteristic prose is his national (Italian) heritage. That the sentences are inimitably "sunkissed". By un-sunkissing them, I meant adding some dots and commas. Bishonen | talk 05:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

Oh. Well, at least it wasn't self-explanatory. I don't feel so bad not understanding :) - Nunh-huh 19:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

What, you've never been unkissed before? I have, plenty. Mostly by women, but I suppose it would be possible with the sun, too, given that Apollo was somewhat polyamorous. Geogre 20:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts from one more well-wisher

Hello Bishonen -- Add me to the many others hoping you decide to reengage with the project. You said above that Misplaced Pages would do just fine without you, if it were doing fine in the first place. Two points:

First, Misplaced Pages will always "do fine" in the sense of never missing anyone. It's real people--our friends and admirers--who miss us, and you have battalions of them here, including many, like me, easily unnoticed on the periphery of your acquaintance. You said somewhere recently that you care far more about your friends than about the project. So please look beyond the plight of one friend and consider what all of your friends are saying and feeling. People here have benefited immensely from interacting with you and from the model set by your contributions. They are truly distressed by the prospect of losing you.

Second, Misplaced Pages is the human race's most ambitious experiment in the democratization of knowledge dissemination. Nothing so gloriously extravagant could (or should!) go smoothly. Error, foolishness, incivility, and cacophony come with the territory. But if the human race presses forward with projects like Misplaced Pages, then slowly--very slowly--it can teach itself to behave better.

So please stick around, Bishonen. Your penetrating mind and big heart mean so much to your friends and equip you like few others to deal with this gorgeous monstrosity of a project. WikiPedant 20:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope, Bish, that you take a break, but come back. Vi mösta har svenskpratar här! Bo-Lingua 20:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Block warning

I will not add the warnings again, but could you get Certified.Gangsta (talk · contribs) to stop vandalizing my user page ? Certified.Gangsta is making unjustified accusations on his talk page while deleting and censoring ALL my comments. Could you do something about that? Certified.Gangsta is using his talk pages to make unjustified accusations about me while censoring and deleting ALL my comments that refute the accusations. Could you restore the comments without the warning templates? Guardian Tiger 16:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta (talk · contribs) is now repeatedly vandalizing my userpage. Can you take a look into this? Guardian Tiger 18:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your temperate response. I have written to Certified.Gangsta on his page, please take a look. Bishonen | talk 19:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for the response. Certified.Gangsta is making unjustified accusations on his talk page while deleting and censoring ALL my comments. Certified.Gangsta is using his talk pages to attempt to mountain a campaign against me. He is censoring and deleting ALL my comments that refute the accusations. Is there anything that can be done about this? Guardian Tiger 19:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

In case you didn't notice my response, User:Nlu doesn't wanna get involved. Plus, I don't wanna escalate this issue or Guardian Tiger will go around spamming user talkpages making personal attacks then I'll probably end up getting blocked. What I suggest is this, you or one of your admin friend may want to do some investigation on User:Guardian Tiger, User:RevolverOcelotX, and most importantly the indef. blocked account User:RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH, it isn't that hard to tell. If it was determined that they are the same person, then block all the socks without checkuser. If the conclusion is I was wrong, which means I am being a complete pain in the ass, then block ME. Does this sound good? Is it really that hard to block an obvious sock? That's all I ask, please.--Certified.Gangsta 03:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Another thing is that I made a timeline of this incident on my talkpage. Feel free to edit it and add the bits you participated in. Hopefully you will understand why I am so pissed off.--Certified.Gangsta 03:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Certified.Gangsta (talk · contribs) has shown no policy violations and made specious accusations of "personal attacks" of which there are none. Certified.Gangsta is attempting to use his talk pages to attempt to mountain a campaign against me where he can delete and censor my comments that refute his accusations. I believe this is an abuse of talk page guidelines, is there anything that can be done about this? Guardian Tiger 15:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Gangsta and Tiger, I'm trying to figure this conflict right now. I have a lot on my mind, as you know, Gangsta, and I really can't blame the admins who have given up on it, but hopefully I'll come to some conclusion. If I see cause, I'll contact a CheckUser myself. Please both of you just ignore the other person's talkpage for now. Bishonen | talk 20:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Without having followed all the links, CheckUser isn't normally used in personal disputes because it doesn't really matter if socks are being used - there's no rule against being an idiot from multiple accounts. Checkuser is usually reserved for people suspects of violating blocks or using multiple accounts for voting. This sounds more like a job for the mediation cabal. Regards, Ben Aveling 21:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Gangsta's contention isn't merely that Guardian Tiger is a sock or reincarnation (which he obviously is, since he sprang into fully-competent action on December 27, more aware of wiki vernacular, procedures and fora than any newbie could be). It's that he's an abusive sock of a banned user. That's the accusation I'm looking into. Bishonen | talk 21:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Bishonen, Certified.Gangsta has cited no policy violations or violations of WP:SOCK. There are no grounds for a CheckUser, which I believe Certified.Gangsta repeatedly filed in an attempt to harrass me and gain leverage in a massive number of content disputes. None of the accounts Certified.Gangsta mentioned are blocked or banned. Certified.Gangsta has shown no evidence of "abusive sock" or "banned user". Certified.Gangsta is repeatedly calling for blocks and bans in an attempt to gain leverage in content disputes on China/Taiwan-related pages. Guardian Tiger 01:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You're mistaken. The account RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked indefinitely for its disruptive editing on 1 November, 2006. Is that your account? There certainly are similarities between your account and that, for instance the repetitious talkpage posting. I suggest you do yourself a favour and let me check this out without continually bringing such family likenesses to my attention. Could you instead please explain how you could be so wiki-savvy from your very first day of editing? Bishonen | talk 01:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

The account that RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH was linked to, User:RevolverOcelotX was not block or banned indefinately. There are many reasons an editor could be wiki-savvy but it is not a policy violation or grounds for an repetitive and harassing checkuser. Bishonen, no offense, but it appears you known Certified.Gangsta for some time and I don't exactly consider you a very neutral admin to give a third opinion in this dispute. I find the subpage you created to be highly unappropriate and can be seen as helping Certified.Gangsta mountain a campaign against me. I find that highly inappropriate and respectfully request that you delete the subpage. See what other users had to say about Certified.Gangsta's behavior. Guardian Tiger 01:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a response to what Bishonen posted on my talk page. Whether or not RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH was block or not is irrelevant. The fact is the original account that RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH was linked to, User:RevolverOcelotX was not block or banned indefinately. If you look at the different account's contributions, you would see that none of the accounts are editing at the same time or in the same time frame. Whether or not RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH's indefinite block was justified or not is up for debate but it seems one of the reason it wsa blocked was because of WP:USERNAME. Another user explained this situation here in which he says: "In one instance, he successfully obtained the blocking of a likely sockpuppet of User:RevolverOcelotX, even though it was a legitimate sockpuppet was not violating policy as per WP:SOCK; in that instance, User:RevolverocelotX explained that the alternative account was created because the main account was, at the time, inaccessible, and there was no evidence to cast any doubt on that argument." If anybody is "pestering" or "following around" anybody, its Certified.Gangsta, which a glance through his contributions will show. A checkuser would be repetitive and unwarranted as there is no evidence of any actual policy violations. In fact, I haven't posted on Certified.Gangsta's talk page since you've asked me not to. I don't believe there actually a dispute at the moment because Certified.Gangsta (talk · contribs) already repeatedly claimed he is leaving on his talk page - he just seems to be trying to get my account blocked as a personal vendetta or is a very manipulative person that is pretending there is a current dispute (when there isn't one). In fact, Certified.Gangsta has made his intentions clear here where he made false accusations of "personal attacks". Certified.Gangsta has made personal attacks himself where he calls me "that fucking sockpuppet". Certified.Gangsta also stated "I've said I'm outta here but I'm not gonna go quietly." which shows his bad faith intention in calling for blocks and bans and making personal attacks in order to prove his point. Please reply here and keep the discussion in one place. Thanks. Guardian Tiger 04:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bishonen, User:RevolverOcelotX/User:Guardian Tiger/User:Apocalyptic Destroyer has posted to my page that he will no longer use any of those accounts, that he will henceforth use ApocalypticDestroyer's as his "main and only account". Regards, Ben Aveling 21:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Autobiographical articles

Hi, in your comments on my RFA, you expressed some concerns about my response to a question dealing with a potential situation where the subject of an article edits their own article. While patrolling recent changes, I noticed this edit where User:Hueys20 asserts that he is Bill Huard. I added the welcome template to the user's page and pointed him to Misplaced Pages's guideline on autobiographies. Any other advice you have about what I should do / should have done in this situation would be appreciated. Thank you. --BigDT 04:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Literature

So, the main page FA today says that "Half Life 2" "gathered near unanimous positive reviews." Adverb anyone? Our hypercorrective style sheet folks let that go? The "limp prose" people didn't notice that the English language does not allow adjectives to modify adjectives? They don't know that "near" (as in "almost") is not an adverb? On the other hand, our first successful collaboration will be on the main page next week, and I'm sure it will be on FAR for footnotes the day after. Geogre 12:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

"Near unanimous" is a bit like "almost unique". Here, "near" means "not". -- ALoan (Talk) 13:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

"The main character is a lesbian, which is a more or less unique experience, especially for a farm girl." -- Unnamed former student who is probably worth five times more than I will ever spend. Geogre 21:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps they mean that being a lesbian more or less excludes not being a lesbian? Or maybe not. Regards, Ben Aveling 01:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

laughing hysterically* Thanks for the laugh! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 21:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

- Oh, they all went on to fortune, if not fame, while I remained stuck behind a pile of essays. They went on to "cell" people and "mobile" them, to "incentivate" their customers, and to "proactively value add" to their bank accounts, while I kept hoping the Democrats would win so that the government cheese program would have real cheese in it some year.
- A very recent one from a student who may not rise to such heights, "The add for Campbell's Chunky Soup leads to the words Campbells Chunky Chili Soup It Feels You Up Right." In the margin, I wrote, "That's something I don't want my soup to do, upright or prone." Geogre 23:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

- - Oh, and another, back from my days with students destined for wealth, "As lines 5-7 show, God is a major character in the poem." Geogre 23:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    - Ah, but you should try teaching the second-language speakers. "Macbeth has become all alone. His thanes are defecating around him." Bishonen | talk 23:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC).
      - Probably not what they meant to say, but possibly accurate? Ben Aveling 01:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
        And you can see how social isolation would tend to ensue, right? Bishonen | talk 01:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

Gosh, that is funny. Did they mean "defecting", perhaps? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't want to say it, but you force my hand. A nice young man, now the head of a company, I'm sure, wrote, "Desdemona cannot analize her situation and therefore loses control." Geogre 12:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I just read this thread above. When I got to the "thanes … defecating" above it was the first good belly laugh I've had for what seems like ages now. Thanks Bish, et alii. Paul August ☎ 17:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

- My paternal Grandmother, a noted malaprop, once told us at dinner, "Since we've moved to Portugal we don't accept invitations to dinner. I feel that if we were to accept I would be obliged to retaliate". (we think she meant reciprocate but we were to busy laughing)--Mcginnly | Natter 17:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps they meant defalcating. BTW, I found out today that my name is an anagram of "Venal being". I had to go look it up - someone has way to much time on his hands. Regards, Ben Aveling 10:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

This was too funny. Ben, you may be interested to know that anagram-wise, you are a navel being (accurate) as well as a vine bangle(not certain about the accuracy of that one, do you swing from the trees a la Tarzan often?) but in this puppy's opinion you are certainly not venal. KillerChihuahua 11:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, I don't object to a drop of vino. I don't think I'm more venal than the next person, but perhaps it's worth remembering that we are all at least potentially corruptable? B Vine Angel 21:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Duke of Ferrar has put his wife on a pedal stool" was one student's reading of the Robert Browning poem, while another (not a malapropism) said, of a passage, "Gringolet has just killed a man and is hoping that the matter may be settled with a prudent marriage" (you have to click on the link to see why that was a crackup). (Wouldn't a vine bangle encircle a vine and then hang loose and clack whenever the vine goes into its purse? Or would it require familiarity with "Walk Like an Egyptian?") Geogre 13:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Nothing eh? Ok, how about this one. I don't know the student, because it came from a state-wide regent's exam: all students have to pass it to get to be juniors in college, so the authors of these gems were sophomores in college:
1. "You should never take your senses for granite."
2. "It's a doggy dog world out there."
3. "It was the same thing for all in tents and porpoises."
4. (It was expensive) "it cost a nominal egg."
Now, 1-3 are apparent mistakes, but I'll let the reader figure out #4 on her or his own. Geogre 12:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'd say that the state, or at least parts of it, must have non-rhotic tendencies? Palmiro | Talk 02:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah. Purposes and porpoises are equally rhotic, but those nominal eggs were the most outrageous. (Try saying, "it cost a nominal egg" very quickly, with no pause between words. It's an interesting case of a blend and break, the same way that "a norange" became, in English, "an orange.") Geogre 03:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

"an arm and a leg"? Regards, An evil Ben G

Re nominal egg, I believe the term is "eggcorn".

Re "orange", nāraṅgaḥ → nārang → nāranj → naranja → arangia → arancia → orenge -> a norange, apparently. See also an ewt. The question is, what did (English) people call the colour "orange" before there were naranjas (ah - "geoluhread" apprently. Snappy.). Also confer Tyrian purple, which was nearly red.

Anyway, I have to share a quotation from Vertue from a short biography of Hogarth I am reading: Moll Hackabout "..was sent to bridewell by St John Gonson Justice and her salivation and death." I suppose we can excuse him, though. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

My RFA

Hey, thanks for participating in my recent RFA. You were amongst a number of editors who considered that I wasn't ready for the mop yet and as a consequence the RFA did not succeed (69/26/11). I am extremely grateful that you took the time to advise me on to improve as a Wikipedian and I'd like to assure you that I'll do my level best to develop my skills here to a point where you may feel you could trust me with the mop.

I've been blown away by the level of interest taken in my RFA and appreciate the time and energy dedicated by all the editors who have contributed to it, support, oppose and neutral alike. I hope to bump into you again soon and look forward to serving you and Misplaced Pages in any way I can. Cheers! The Rambling Man 19:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC) (the non-admin, formerly known as Budgiekiller)

Re:User:Guardian Tiger

Hi there, I noticed that you have indef blocked User:Guardian Tiger. May I ask what are the grounds for that blocking, aside from User:Guardian Tiger being the same person as User:RevolverOcelotX? I was of the understanding that only abusive sockpuppets get blocked. Checking through User:Guardian Tiger's history, I didn't see anything which is particularly abusive. --Sumple (Talk) 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I see. Did you click on this very damning edit, which was part of my block message to Guardian Tiger? Here's some stalking. Here's a removal of a talkpage post on the argument that it's a "diatribe." Here's a discussion on WP:ANI, showing that uninvolved admins who have reviewed the block agree about the abuse. Bishonen | talk 23:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

I see. By analogy, User:Certified.Gangsta should have been blocked a long time ago.

Here is a comparison "proving" that he is a "sockpuppet" of User:Bonafide.Hustla: User:Bonafide.Hustla vs User:Certified.Gangsta.

Here is a removal of a talkpage post on the purported basis that it's an "unjust accusation".

Here is a racist attack.

Here, here, and here are some evidence of stalking.

Here, here, and here are some evidence of systematic vandalism.

No, I don't agree with the approach of User:RevolverOcetlotX or whatever he's called this week, but I find it ridiculous that someone like User:Certified.Gangsta, who is either a blatant vandal and troll, or ignorant as a cucumber, can be allowed to run around wasting everyone else's time when others who are not nearly as disruptive (i.e. User:RevolverOcelotX) are being indef blocked.

If you don't believe me about the vandal/troll/cucumber comment, look through the history of the diffs I supplied above: almost every single one of User:Certified.Gangsta's article edtis gets reverted by reputable editors. No doubt User:Certified.Gangsta will claim that they are all the same people/all sockpuppets of each other/all Communist China stooges, but such claims only goes to prove my point.

Anyway, I have vented my spleen. I have no intention to do anything about my dissatisfaction. Thank you for your time, and happy editing. --Sumple (Talk) 12:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Guardian Tiger

In case you haven't noticed, there has been some shocking developments in the last few hours. User:Guardian Tiger created a new sock to evade his community ban and returned to editing without community consensus or arbCom ruling. The most outlandish accusation his new sock made is accusing User:Isberg to be your sockpuppet. I don't believe it. Anyway please refer to my talkpage if you're interested.] (sorry it's not in diffs).--Certified.Gangsta 23:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I've had trouble getting somebody to eyeball the situation, Boney. I'll try again tomorrow, or try to try. In case I'm not around anymore, please contact CheckUser Mackensen directly and ask him to review, he already knows the facts. As for Isberg and the page Isberg/Conflict, what can I tell you? I appreciate your indignation on my behalf, but it's misplaced. Nice friendly little sock! Sure it's mine.

Bishonen | talk 01:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC).