Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:24, 19 January 2007

Initial dispute

Halibutt you're mocking again:) Your style just proves what I've been suspecting - mocking names of people (like calling Kazimieras Garšva - Kazimierz Garszwa) you do not like, mocking on Lithuanian language, describing Lithuanian generals in a provocative way, removing referenced information - you are utterly overboard.--Lokyz 12:30, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Lokyz, don't waste your time. This editor isn't fooling anyone, other than himself. This recent flaming and anti-Lithuanian propaganda, only conclusively shows his true viewpoint and lack of objectivity. Don't expect his "friends" to chastise him either. It's a very strange case. He has shown the German and Russian (and most of Poland's neighbors) Wikipedians a weird, hateful history of editing, always careful to wrap himself up in a "scholarly" and "academic" veneer. The most bizarre aspect of this "Polish" editor, is he doesn't participate and contribute to "Polish Misplaced Pages". I'm not certain if this is a self-imposed exile, or he is simply not welcome there. The saddest aspect of all of this, is that I'm sure many Polish contributors are embarrassed by his actions, but are powerless to do anything about it. Besides, now that he has removed his mask, more people who had genuine doubts about him and gave him the benefit of the doubt, see the true picture. Dr. Dan 14:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It saddens me to see that we have editors who support point of views of extremist organizations, contribute little to Misplaced Pages project and, for the lack of better word, run a 'campaign of hatred' against some of most productive editors to this project (like User:Halibutt). On the bright side, WP:V and WP:NPOV had and will triumph in such cases. If you have any constructive things to add, please do, but don't expect us to waste time dealing with personal attacks and unsourced claims like above. PS. Kazimierz Garszwa was the version of the name used in Polish language publications (ex. )- please write a letter to them to ask them to abstain from 'mocking'. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah Piotrus, please, could you provide any evidence, that any user, as you did just state, does support Vilnija's views?--Lokyz 11:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus said more than was there to say. I'll only add that if you, dear Lokyz, feel ok with calling Poles with some Lithuanian names, then why am I not entitled to calling Lithuanian with Polish names? //Halibutt 18:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

After some reconsideration, Halibutt seems to found someone's at his level. I even think they could be best friends, because of similarity of both of them in temper and behaving:)--Lokyz 21:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Please note my reply is to the old version of the post. My pleasure, Lokyz. You can also see them on our (my and Halibutt's userpages), together with stuff like real names and such. Unlike some people, we are proud of our contributions, and don't mind signing our real names and creditentials on the pages. PS. I am sure that both you and Dr. Dan can find more productive venues than attacking Halibutt. Copyedit, create articles... etc. Please try to avoid personal attacks and slanderous accusations like above. We grow thick skin on Misplaced Pages (as in any other public discussion forums), but users who spend too much on talk offending others may find themselves on ArbCom enforced civility parole or banned from this project for disruptive editing. Please keep this in mind. Thank you, -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Lokyz, the formula is a very simple one. Attack, insult, pretend to be the injured party, and then threaten the the original party with "action against them". Besides now you know, according to P.P., that Halibutt is his "real" name. Dr. Dan 20:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

As to my real name, there's a link to my homepage at my user page. As to other issues - I'm not interested in such chatter. I write articles and let the others discuss them ad nauseam, change them into some strange propaganda or improve them. //Halibutt 02:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Authors of the article, have you read this book: Racist Extremism in Central and Eastern Europe?. Only few pages can be gotten from internet and there's nothing about the Vilnija. Have you got it from friend or maybe you know some library? Or have you bought it? Was there anything about the Vilnija?

Check page 151: The petition was also signed by representatives of extremist organizations such as the LNDP, the UJL, and the association Vilnija. //Halibutt 07:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Does the book cover Polish extremist organizations sufficiently as well? Are you planning to write about them, or expand on them on Misplaced Pages? Do you have enough sources to do so, or are Lithuanian organizations more to your liking or level of expertise? Dr. Dan 14:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

1. Does the book cover Polish extremist organizations sufficiently as well? - check for yourself, it's easily-available. Such a noted scholar as yourself should have no problems obtaining it.
2. Are you planning to write about them, or expand on them on Misplaced Pages? - if some Polish nationalist starts to convince all uninformed editors that radical Polish organizations are in fact reliable, I'd do my best to write a short article on them for all to see and check for themselves. So far I saw none of such attempts, while I saw numerous attempts to present Vilnija as some sort of a reliable source.
3. Do you have enough sources to do so, or are Lithuanian organizations more to your liking or level of expertise? - Again, you probably know that there are plenty of libraries where I live. //Halibutt 21:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Kazimierz Garszwa

While I usually prefer not to use Polonized/Lithuanized names of contemporary Lithuanians or Poles, I don't quite see why would "Kazimierz Garszwa" be supposed to be offensive ? Would calling the Polish president Lechas Kačynskis be intended as an insult as well ? I think you are beating around the bush, guys. --Lysy 20:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I've only now checked the history of the article, and I think that using Kazimierz Garszwa within the article qualifies for WP:POINT. But can we get over it now, when it's already corrected ? --Lysy 20:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and Lysy, please remember that calling Kaczyński, Kačynskis, on English WP would be innappropriate, stupid, and possibily disruptive. Depending on context, maybe even offensive to some. Since you humorously weighed in on the gender issue, let me do likewise. As to his calling another editor a female, when over a greater part of a year of interaction, that's obviously not the case. Well, that's simply the low mentality of a "frat boy", thinking he's Emily Plater, at the height of an insurrection. Incidentally, the second picture down (yes, the one where he's sucking his thumb), on his user page, is rather androgynous, don't you think? Dr. Dan 17:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit summary

May I inquire about the edit summary - "nationalists are gonna love me for this"? The meaning of it seems to escape me. Andrius 21:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Better ignore it, maybe ? The discussion in this talk page has been mostly pointless already. I would suggest that we'd be better off focussing on the article itself instead of edit behaviour or summaries. How about that? --Lysy 22:30, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Whaaat? And miss the chance to spend 10 hours and 1000 kilobytes discussing such an interesting edit summary that can be interpreted in 100 different ways? Sure :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I won't bore you with my interpretation and my thoughts on it (as much as I feel the need to do so). It is now, officially, ignored. By me, at least ;) Andrius 23:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Andrius, please read WP:dick, for a full understanding of the meaning of it. It's a faster way to understand it. There should be a link to his user page. Dr. Dan 03:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Dan, you can offend me like you did in the past, but please do not escalate your wars on others and leave Andrius alone. He's done nothing wrong to you. //Halibutt 10:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure Andrius is not a fool, and knows precisely what I meant. Nice try though, Hali! Dr. Dan 17:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I got what you meant straight away, but I think it was unnecessary. Even though it may reflect the situation (as I see it) accurately. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AndriusG (talk • contribs) 18:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Hali: WP:DFTT. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hali: let me agree with you on this one, Piotrus said more than there was to say (sic). He usually does. Dr. Dan 17:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

P.P.'s Pride in their Contributions

P.P., aka Prokonsul Piotrus, babbled something on the above talk that he and Halibutt are proud of their contributions to WP, and that they sign their "real" names and use their creditentials (sic). And the point of that statement would be what P.P.? And is Hali also proud of this openess and honesty? Dr. Dan 06:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Consult WP:LIVING before adding doubtful statements

As headline says. M.K. 00:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

For starters, WP:LIVING concenrs itself with people, not organziations. For second, if you have specific concenrs, list them here first.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Needing cite check

Some provided refs do not match with text provided in article, soem removed, some maybe still in place need to be carefully checked. M.K. 01:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Care to be more specific? Removal of referenced information is not constructive. Please discuss references which you think are incorrect here first, you have been asked many times to talk first and do controversial edits second. Thank you, -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Citing one reference and using it to broadly accuse an organization of being extremist, is a very dangerous and unscholarly way of adding information to an encyclopedia. Placing it it in the opening statement is even worse, and is something typically seen as a provocation. Currently I am trying to find out the sources that Piotrus used to claim that the League of Polish Families and Samoobrona (Self Defense of the Repuplic of Poland), are extremist organizations, and anti-Semitic to boot. A further falsehood of P.P. aka the "Prokonsul", is his statement that any of the editors involved in this discussion are supporters of this organization (yes the one above, where he is saddened by his own fantasy). Dr. Dan 15:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)