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Revision as of 02:44, 20 January 2007

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Thanks for a well researched and meticulously sourced article. I will add some more material to provide some needed context. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You are most welcome. Do you have hyperlinks for these reviews you have added? I fear that there may be quoted portions of the reviews missing, and quotes in place appearing out of context. Also, the Dupont Award is very notable and should be mentioned early in the article. I will place the WIP tag. PLEASE respect. Smee 18:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

No, I do not have URLs of free online sources. I use several online databases that require payment.

1. I have restored the context for Offman as it is pertinent to the article. True, people can hyperlink, but there is no harm in providing context for Hoffman and Davies which you described in your edit as an "activist".
2. I have moved the award to the appropriate section rather than the lead, as done with many other award-winning documentaries.
3. I re-ordered the reviews in chronological fashion of their appearance as before. Could you also please provide the exact date for the Los Angeles Times review? Otherwise is not verifiable. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I will work on getting the citation date. I will restore the Awards section. This is common for most films articles. Smee 20:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

I already did. It is now in the lead. I understand that there is a review that was published on The Christian Science Monitor, but I cannot locate it. Maybe you could? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that information. I will try. Smee 20:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Can you explain why you removed the text and described my edits as "POV pushing", when the fact is that Abbie Hoffman was one of the Chicago Seven and notable because of that? I would also appreciate that rather than making such opinions in edit summaries, you address your concerns in talk. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

That is NOT what Abbie Hoffman is most known for. He is most know for his book, Steal this Book. At any rate, that is not something for us to decide, that is for the editors of the Abbie Hoffman article to decide over there. Allow the reader to read the article there, and don't try to denigrate him here with a few words of POV pushing. It is inappropriate. Smee 21:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

This is eerily similar to those editors who love to write "Example cult expert, comma, and anti-cult activist, comma, believes such and such." This is inappropriate for editors to go POV pushing with labels all over Misplaced Pages. Better to restrict this to articles about the subject themselves, and leave either no rejoinder or a very simple one here. Smee 21:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

This is a very interesting conversation. You believe that it is denigrating to say about Hoffman that he was a member of the Chicago Seven. For others, that is actually a positive fact of Hoffman's life as it shows his determination to fight the establishment and enhances his image of a protester. I could argue that the one pushing a POV, may be you, with your removal of that fact. Maybe time for a WP:THIRD opinion? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It reminds me of another dispute at Charismatic authority in which some editors were asking for adding a person and other asking from removing the same person, as each side believed that the addition or removal was "pushing a POV" (some saw this as a positive and others a s a negative). ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Let us talk about the content. Just how much space in this article do we need for context about Abbie Hoffman? He is notable for lots of things. Shall we devote an entire paragraph just to describing context about Abbie Hoffman? How about a paragraph of context for each of the individuals mentioned in the article? The companies? There is such a thing as too much context, especially if other articles on Misplaced Pages already exist on these individuals. Smee 21:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

This is the only movie he directed. He makes fun of Rennie Davies on it (I am researching exact quotes), etc. As such, information about Davies and Hoffman need to be sufficient to provide basic context for readers. I am off now for a while. Will return to expand the article later in the evening or tomorrow morining. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I like your compromise about the Abbie Hoffman context for the moment. Smee 21:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

I think we have a pretty good article. I remember reading about a Hoffman vs Davies interlude during the taping, but I cannot locate the source. I'll keep looking. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Interlude? What do you mean? I wonder if this can be given a tighter classification in the films wikiproject... Smee 02:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

I meant that as a metaphor... i.e as an "interlude" in a section in music between one person's solo and another's. Davies speaks of Hoffman and Hoffman speaks of Davies during the taping of the film I remember reading something about that. The films wikiproject usually deals with films rather than with TV documentaries, but you could try. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

We shall see. Smee 02:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

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