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Untitled

Hi! While reading the article, I see "According to other, unattributed, accounts Yasuke may have come"... If these accounts are unattributed, where do they come from ? Can't we find a source for them (contemporary or not)... If they just come from internet forum or romans, we can not take them in account... -Ash_Crow 01:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

One point of mentioning the "other, unattributed" accounts is to show how many contradictory, or clearly wrong, accounts there are about Yasuke. Look at earlier versions of the article. I meant to say "beware of what you read."

Another purpose is to make it so if someone adds something and does not attribute it, hopefully the reader will realize that it is not attributed, unlike earlier versions where there was no idea at all of what came from where, or what was supposed to be attributed or not. (Though most was wrong anyway.)

Of course, people do make attributions without checking them, such as saying that "Yasuke" was mentioned in Frois's History. I could not find any such mention in the relevant chapters, even with an index. Frois wrote a lot besides his History. And Frois did not say most of what was in the article, anywhere. Stone-turner 08:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

About a description different from the original of Japan.

"Because it was not a Japanese race, liberated it" is a bent translation.

"Because it was not a person, liberated it" is correct.

Yasuke was not recognized that human from Akechi Mitsuhide. (221.184.32.93 (talk) 01:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

The original was in Portuguese, and the whole was translated into Japanese in Jūroku-jūnanaseiki Iezusukai Nihon Hōkokushuu, Matsuda, Kiichi, ed., Hōdōsha, 1987-98. This is the modern, scholarly translation. The passage in the translation reads:黒人（カフレ）をいかがにすべきか問うたところ、この黒人（カフレ）は動物（ベスティアル）であって何も知らず、また日本人でもないから彼を殺さず、インドの祭司たちの教会に置くように命じた．(Vol. 3-6, p. 129) So Akechi gave two reasons.--Stone-turner (talk) 06:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, this article states that the Shinchoko-ki says Yakuke was stronger than 10 men (強力十の人に勝たり）. Did you check the Shinchokoki? I don't know what source has 100 men, but if it was written before the Shinchoko-ki (1622) I would be very interested to know what it is.--Stone-turner (talk) 06:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

この黒人（カフレ）は動物（ベスティアル）であって何も知らず - How is this part translated? It is said that it will not know anything because it is an animal (non-man). Akechi Mitsuhide saw yasuke in an aspect different from Oda Nobutada. 61.119.255.42 (talk) 04:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

People even say he will be made a 'tono' (lord)," though this did not happen.

Is this a joke? The statesmanship is necessary to become tono(lord). 61.119.255.42 (talk) 04:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't be obscene. I edited your above statement.

I don't know what you mean by a joke. It is a direct quote from Mexia's letter. He was in Azuchi at the time and reported what people said, which is why the statement was in quotes and the present tense. I will reword it a little.--Stone-turner (talk) 12:51, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

In the English page, yasuke is legend Soldier(lol

"Moreover, his strength was greater than that of 10 men."

強力（ごうりき）十の人に勝（すぐ）れたり

nobunaga praised strength of yasuke. However, yasuke does not fight against ten people.

juninriki(十人力) is not 10men power. When it is expression exaggerated a little, understand it.

Japanese has the word hyakuninriki(百人力). When the person who edited this page translates it, it will become the 100men power. However, the true meaning is "With strong help, I feel very stouthearted".

A commentary of hyakuninriki. http://kotobank.jp/word/%E7%99%BE%E4%BA%BA%E5%8A%9B

By a mistake to occur because of a literal translation, yasuke becomes a legendary soldier. 60.33.38.8 (talk) 07:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

An English page with useless yasuke as a hero.

Yasuke fought alongside the Nobutada forces for a long time but when all his comrades had died, he surrendered his sword to Akechi's men.

Is yasuke the only survivor in the fight? Do not make an impressive false story. 220.106.175.174 (talk) 05:51, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

To an English editor and people seeing this page.

yasuke is not evaluated historically in Japan. The reason is because he was worthless. yasuke does not have an impressive event in a fight. It is only it that he was defeated by the akechi forces. There is no useful description in yasuke as an aide of nobunaga.

However, the people of the English zone seem to want to change Yasuke to the hero. Please be careful about the impressions of this page. A false script with yasuke as a hero is added.220.106.175.174 (talk) 06:24, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The Yasuke/black people was identified with Buddha in Japan and was admired. Information disgusted with is on this page a lot.

Please submit the information that yasuke was admired like Buddha.

Please show a source of information where a black people was praised as Buddha in Japan.

The Japanese book seems to be shown as a source of information. However, it is obvious that it is not a mainstream thought. The words that akechi said to yasuke are famous. Yasuke is a beast(not Buddha).

Does the Westerner believe this information? They attach a plausible reason from the source of information of the doubt and recite an unrealistic made-up story.220.106.175.174 (talk) 07:03, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

I edited the first sentence to make it clear

I hope no one has a problem with this, but I corrected this clause in the first sentence from this:

"...a black ( Erroneously thought of as African, or of African origin) retainer who was in the duke of the Japanese hegemon and warlord Oda Nobunaga between 1581 and 1582."

to this retainer of the Japanese hegemon and warlord Oda Nobunaga between 1581 and 1582."

Best regards TheBaron0530 (talk) 13:58, 21 June 2016 (UTC)theBaron0530

To add to article

To add to this article: is there a film about Yasuke that is in production as of early 2020? 76.189.141.37 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Samurai

Pinging Havsjö and Natemup. Please use this space to discuss the merits of describing Yasuke as a samurai instead of relying on edit summaries. Havsjö, will you please self-revert your most recent edit? It was your fourth reversion in 24 hours, breaking WP:3RR. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I've re-added the samurai reference (which was almost certainly removed at point in the past, perhaps as an act of vandalism), with multiple reliable sources. natemup (talk) 20:50, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Sourced samurai reference is now being removed without explanation by an anonymous editor. natemup (talk) 03:08, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Natemup: I have reverted your edit. Please locate better sources. Geoffrey Girard is a novelist who almost certainly doesn't read Japanese, classical Chinese, or even Portuguese or Latin. Naima Mohamud is a filmmaker who AFAICT is similarly unqualified to write about these matters. What's worse, the titles of those two sources strongly imply you just Googled "African samurai" to locate sources that could be used as a pretext to write what you already wanted to write rather than honestly and accurately reflecting how our subject is described in the best scholarly sources. This practice, which demands that anyone seeking to remove dubiously sourced factual claims somehow prove a negative, turns WP:BURDEN on its head. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:14, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

In fact, one could Google anything about Yasuke and virtually every result would refer to him as a samurai. It seems extremely odd to be this pedantic about a claim found in virtually every source already used in the article. natemup (talk) 03:00, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Natemup: "almost certainly vandalism"? Please retract that personal attack immediately. Anyway, as I have explained on my talk page, "samurai" is a somewhat loaded term, and whether this subject "was a samurai" (or "Samurai" as this article has written it quite often in the past) kinda misses the point. A popular source, even one written by someone with a PhD in a relevant field, is not reliable for this material if it does not address these matters. If we take "samurai" as a generic term for "warrior" or "soldier" then it's a truism that Yasuke was a samurai, but this is not worth mentioning; if we take it to mean someone who was born or adopted into one of the buke families of pre-modern Japan, then it's a truism that Yasuke was not a samurai and you won't find any scholar who argues otherwise. But if you are going to persist in name-calling, such questions are irrelevant as I don't want to discuss the matter with anyone who doesn't abide by WP:CIVIL. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't know why you assume that was directed at you. It was my understanding that the term was removed from the article at some point in the distant past and I didn't care to find out who it was. But you seem to have outed yourself here with that very stringent definition that is alien to the dictionary. By nature of his being a retainer in the Oda clan under a daimyo, Yasuke was a samurai. natemup (talk) 11:40, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Anon continues to vandalize the page with original research and biased edits. natemup (talk) 23:22, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't know any anon: I was invited to keep an eye this article by User:Goszei, and it was my edit that you reverted with the edit summary The removal of this term from the article was almost certainly vandalism. Moreover, at the end of every calendar month in 2020 the lead sentence described him as a "retainer" with a link to affinity (medieval), which unlike "samurai" is not a loaded term that implies an unverifiable (but likely wrong/anachronistic) conclusion: the present "samurai" debate seems to have been initiated in mid-February with this edit; accusing someone, even an editor who doesn't have an account (!), let alone someone with ten times your edit count over a period twice as long, of "vandalism" because said editors joined User:Havsjö in undoing your unilateral and WP:BOLD edit is simply unacceptable, and you need to stop doing it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Slave or Servant

Because of the ambiguity in whether he was a slave or a servant, I removed the categories that mention him as slave. Thoughts?Manabimasu (talk) 22:32, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Good idea. I'm sure it was from an old version of the page. natemup (talk) 22:40, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

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