Talk:Etika: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 22:22, 11 May 2021 edit2603:7000:1f00:6b91:7451:57d1:c907:3442 (talk) →Removing the suicide note video ← Previous edit		Revision as of 23:23, 11 May 2021 edit undoHuon (talk \| contribs)Administrators51,324 edits →Removing the suicide note video: commentNext edit →
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	::::Per the above and the lack of an explanation of what this video adds to the page beyond the summary of its content already present, I have removed it (again). ] (]) 00:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)		::::Per the above and the lack of an explanation of what this video adds to the page beyond the summary of its content already present, I have removed it (again). ] (]) 00:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
	:::::{{reply to\|Huon}} You’re gonna have to remove it a third time... check the page history. ] (]) 22:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)		:::::{{reply to\|Huon}} You’re gonna have to remove it a third time... check the page history. ] (]) 22:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
			{{od}} Since it's not currently in the article I don't have to remove it, but I still stand by the reasoning I provided above and would ask those who want to add the video to explain how it improves the article. Merely it being freely licensed doesn't mean we have to put it in, and as far as I can tell, it's not an example of the kind of video Etika is notable for. ] (]) 23:23, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

	== Requested for indefinite extended confirmed protection ==		== Requested for indefinite extended confirmed protection ==

Revision as of 23:23, 11 May 2021

A news item involving Etika was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 26 June 2019.

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Change the article name to Etika's name?

Should we just change the article name to Daniel Desmond Amofah? This article already showcases more of his life other than his disappearance as shown in the career part and Etika is already a notable, well-known enough figure online to have his own article rather than just based on one incident.Uelly (talk) 09:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)Uelly

Wait - It's still a developing situation. Decide once it's concluded. Parafron-trodaí (talk) 11:37, 25 June 2019 (UTC)Parafron-trodaí

I also agree that we should wait for the current event to conclude but at the time being I would lean towards changing the article name to "Etika" over "Daniel Desmond Amofah". Etika probably is notable enough to have his own page without the disappearance and would be better known to the public as "Etika" over his real name. So yes, wait until current events have concluded but if we were to change it afterwards, it would be more suitable to change it to "Etika". Braveb1rd PokeMC (talk) 16:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

I am pretty confident that he was notable before his death (more in the last year, but still)... the question is whether to use Etika or his proper name. There's no WP conflict with Etika, but I see there's a Malaysian star known by that so I think his proper name would be better here. --Masem (t) 17:02, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Another alternative could be their proper name with their username in parenthesis, or potentially referencing their connections to youtube / content creation. -Anonymous 17:32, 25 June 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.77.67.18 (talk)

If it isn't suitable to use his username, then the page should at least be titled "Desmond Amofah". Etika himself went by Desmond and it is by far the more common name he went by. If searching for this page "Daniel Amofah" would not be the first or even second thing someone would think of. Braveb1rd PokeMC (talk) 18:47, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

86.6.178.179 (talk) 17:53, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

His full name, Daniel Desmond Amofah, would portray him as more of a real person rather than someone who doesn’t need to be called their real name DreaganX (talk) 06:30, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Change title to "Deceased"

Etika has been found dead, per here. Trazire (talk) 16:47, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Change page name to Desmond Amofah

His first name is Daniel but he goes by Desmond Michael14375 (talk) 18:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

He is more well-known by his username Etika, so why not just stick with that name instead or use Etika (internet personality)? HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 18:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

No more page moves until consensus is reached here

Page moved with MelanieN's blessing (see my talk page). --Masem (t) 13:57, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This page is now named Etika (streamer) but it should not be. There is no need to disambiguate. If we are going to use the name Etika that should be the name of the article. Etika is now a redirect to this article which makes no sense. But there have been two or three moves of the page in the last few hours. There should not be any more until consensus is reached. What should the article name be? -- MelanieN (talk) 19:34, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

I have move-protected the article for now. Please discuss here and let's decide what the name should be. The most likely candidates seem to be Etika or Daniel Desmond Amofah. -- MelanieN (talk) 19:42, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

My vote is Etika per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRECISE. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 19:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
He's known internet-wide as Etika and a majority of news outlets covering his death initially refer to him as such - so the article should probably be named Etika. Toreightyone (talk) 19:52, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
"Etika" should be fine, my only concern is there are other newsworthy people (seemingly) that do not have articles on WP but could that are also named Etika, but without articles now, or even redirects for this, shouldn't be an issue. Hat notes or other facets may need to be added later. --Masem (t) 19:56, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
Clearly it should be at Etika. Pointless move protection. - hahnch e n 22:42, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
We should use Etika, it looks like most people and news outlets call him that and it was his preferred alias. Roll 3d6 (talk) 23:38, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
I was gonna name the page Etika instead of Etika (streamer) but it was already taken. Michael14375 (talk) 02:14, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
Etika per above. --Wow (talk) 04:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
@MelanieN: Please move the page to Etika. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:32, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
MelanieN has basically okay'd me on my talk page to move this page when the decision was made (even though I did !vote above), and as this is SNOWing, I will go ahead and move things around. --Masem (t) 13:55, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2019

This edit request to Etika (streamer) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

It'd be more respectful to have a photo posted by Etika from his Instagram, rather than using a screencap from his "goodbye" video. An image such as https://www.instagram.com/p/BrqPHIRhta8/ would be preferable. (Direct Link: https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/fc5d7bb507704f6ce6901cb515703f10/5DB769D0/t51.2885-15/e35/46714583_373416163426326_4629470249639477248_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com)

Thank you, and rest in peace Desmond. 2605:A000:1618:C368:D49F:4C21:6DD1:D58E (talk) 20:50, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Provided that the image in the article is available under a free license, you'd need to find a free image to replace it. A fair use rationale falls flat as the image in the article is a free alternative to any of the images on his Instagram. Luigi970p 💬Talk 📜Contributions 21:09, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Which this is probably a good place that if you (WP reader) are in possession of a good photo of Etika, you are welcome to contribute it as a freely-licensed file if you feel its better than the one we have from Instagram. (But this has to be your own photo, not something pulled off YouTube or social media). --Masem (t) 21:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

The goodbye video picture isn’t fitting. I want a pic from his Instagram to show the joy in him LogicIsTheBestWhiteRapper (talk) 21:32, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Our non-free image policy (demanded by the WMF) doesn't allow this. --Masem (t) 21:35, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

BTW, this video from his Minecraft thing is CC with reuse (CC-BY), and thus as long as we're not including any game screens, any screen from that video or others marked with Creative Commons is 100% allowed to be used as an image here. --Masem (t) 21:49, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

OK, no problem. I'll upload a screencap from there. Cth103 t (talk) 22:33, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Uploaded at File:Etika - 2.png. Cth103 t (talk) 22:38, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Some additional information and reactions

The news article is "YouTube Star Etika Is Found Dead in NYC, Leaving Thousands of Fans in Mourning" from Dara Sharif of The Root (magazine). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9000:A507:FCB6:A19A:2362:5C45:2B3F (talk) 01:54, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2019

This edit request to Etika (streamer) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

On this page if states cause of death was murder but no evidence has shown what the cause of death was as it could he suicide or murder 75.163.172.126 (talk) 03:58, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

This appears to have already been removed/fixed. --Masem (t) 04:43, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Death Date

So the E Online announcing the cause of death states he died on June 24. Reading the full article, it seems as if they're using that date as it's the date police were notified of the body in the river, so do we change it to June 24 as shown in the source, or leave it as circa the 19th? Magitroopa (talk) 15:47, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Change.org petition citations

Shouldn't the citation (no plural) be of the change.org petition itself? Citing three sources that talk about the petition instead of the petition itself is just deadweight loss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.126.187 (talk) 20:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Nope. Change.org is, for all purposes, user-generated content and thus unverified/filtered, etc. We generally do not link to user-generated content just because it exists, see WP:ELNO. But as several reliable sources identified the petition there as well as the volume of signatures there so we are in good shape to add it but usng our reliaable sources as the reference point. --Masem (t) 20:48, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Unverified? Change.org can't verify itself? You need three different news articles to verify it? How exactly do these articles verify it? Perhaps by citing the petition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.126.187 (talk) 17:19, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Anyone can start a petition on change.org. It's user-generated. And the three different articles have different information related to sourcing; for example only one gives the 380,000 signature count. --Masem (t) 17:46, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Isn't his name Desmond Daniel Amofah, not Daniel Desmond Amofah?

Despite what the media says, his full name seems to be Desmond Daniel Amofah, according to himself, his ex-girlfriend, and his friend. 90.252.85.46 (talk) 23:23, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Done Thank you for clearing that up it will now be changed Michael14375 (talk) 00:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

A suggestion

"Amofah's death highlighted social media platforms' handling of posts by users who appear at risk with mental illness or who are contemplating suicide. In 2017, Facebook increased its efforts to screen and alert possible suicide threats after several people in 2017 live-streamed suicides on Facebook Live. Facebook now utilizes both algorithms and user reports to flag such threats."

However, I failed to find that he was live-streamed on Facebook Live and I think it is more suitable in broader topic such as "Social Media and Mental Health" rather than a person's topic. Should we delete it and only mentioning Facebook's attempt to reduce suicide? Mariogoods (talk) 22:35, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Change date of death to June 22?

Etika went missing on June 19, which is the date currently listed in the article, but his ex-girlfriend Christine tweeted that she learned he actually died on the 22nd: https://twitter.com/TheAlicePika/status/1145388228272427017 Though this obviously isn't an official police report, she was one of the closest people to him and it sounds like she may have learned this from an official source. Should the date be changed to the 22nd instead of the 19th? CeilingMessenger (talk) 03:42, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

We need an official police report that we can cite, or otherwisse an RS that has likely had access to it. --Masem (t) 03:47, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

He even has photos on Twitter liked on June 20 which doesn't make any sense. Michael14375 (talk) 13:51, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

There are tools that can automate postings, so that's not necessarily a way to say that; it falls into WP:OR. --Masem (t) 13:59, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Why does Etika's Date of Death still has a circa by it?

Haven't at this point in time the police and forensics figured out the exact day Etika was declared dead? Or has technology haven't gotten far enough where you can exactly pinpoint a drowning victim's time of death. Uuruuseiyo (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

We know there was a coroner's report, and from his gf, it likely was ruled on the 22nd. The problem is, outside of her tweet about that, we have no reliable sources that specifically state the day of death. And I did ask about using her tweet at WP:RS/N and was told a resounding NO. So until someone publishes what the official report says, we have no way to include the exact date, so we have to leave circa there. --Masem (t) 05:14, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Etika's View Count is over 145 million, not 4 million

Counting all three of his past channels, he has accumulated exactly 145,385,079 video views (and counting) as of July 9th, 2019. 143,741,591 views on "ewnetwork," 839,717 views on "Tr1Iceman," and 803,771 views on "EtikaFRFX." PantheonRadiance (talk) 01:44, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Done Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't check that he lost 143 million views on EWNetwork. Michael14375 (talk) 17:07, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2019

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The memorial that the fans put up for Etika has been taken down. 104.10.133.48 (talk) 19:40, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Not done We need a reliable source to note this - and regardless, these memorials are always short-term, so its not really newsworthy. --Masem (t) 19:44, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (your reason here) --47.148.66.221 (talk) 22:46, 14 July 2019 (UTC) ITs important for people to know about etika and how depression kills everyone

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (your reason here) --AceAlen (talk) 22:48, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Should be left alone. Many people have tried to delete this article for ridiculous reasons and should just be left alone.

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (your reason here) --100.40.122.112 (talk) 22:49, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Dear Misplaced Pages,

After reviewing this article on the now deceased Desmond Daniel Amofah A.K.A. Etika, I have come to the conclusion that it does not in fact "only serve to promote him", as what is claimed. The article provides transparent information as to where Etika projected his work by providing links to channels owned by him. In addition to that, this article details his life, his career, the mental health issues he faced, as well as details on his death and disappearance. I believe it's an excellent article for Etika and should not be deleted.

Thank you.

Regards,

Anonymous

Suspension of his Twitter

Should we add information on the suspension of his Twitter and when it got hacked? Michael14375 (talk) 08:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

since it was restored and back up I don't feel like it needs to be mentioned — Preceding unsigned comment added by HappyBoi3892 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Years Active

should etikas years active be 2008-2019 since his "rapping career" started in 2008? or should it just be kept his 2011-2015 (modeling) 2012-2019 (youtuber)

Rapping was more of a hobby than a career. Michael14375 (talk) 05:07, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Removing the suicide note video

I'm removing the suicide note video. It serves no encyclopedic purpose and is arguably sensationalist and voyeouristic. If we want to show a typical example of his work, we can easily find another (more typical) example; it appears they're all CC BY licensed. Huon (talk) 20:37, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

I disagree. It is relevant for his biography. He explains why he did what he did. And he says in the video "I hope that my story maybe helps to make YouTube a better place somehow in the future, to let people know boundaries and limits, how far things should go" and "Let my story be one that advises caution on too much of the social media sh** man. It could f*** you up. It can give you an image of what you want your life to be and it can get blown completely out of proportion dawg. And unfortunately, it consumed me. And it made me forget about consequences to my actions."

I think his words are very mature. And he wanted to share these words, so why would the video be voyeuristic? But I agree with you that in addition to this video, it would be good to also add a more typical video. But how can a video from YouTube be inserted? Volstra (talk) 18:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

How is it relevant? We can summarize in our own words what secondary sources have reported about the content (I don't think any secondary source comments on the style or maturity) of this video without having to show the video itself. In fact, that's already done. It's voyeuristic because the entire point of having the video is "this is what he said right before he killed himself" - the next step would be the video of someone who actually commits the suicide on camera. And this hypothetical next step should also make clear why "he wanted to share these words" also is irrelevant. He was likely mentally ill, he committed suicide; there's no enczclopedic need put his last (recorded) moments on public display. Huon (talk) 21:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

By that logic, no media would be required for anything. We could summarize in our own words what secondary sources reported about a movie poster instead of showing the actual poster. This doesn't make any sense to me. The point of having the video is to show what was going on in his head and allow any reader to draw their own conclusions. I'm not buying your slippery slope argument. A video of someone who commits suicide on camera doesn't add any insight into someone's thought process or personality. Volstra (talk) 13:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Well the video is back so. VinnieBat1 (talk) 04:53, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Volstra, VinnieBat1, and Huon:There's the moral component. It's one thing to show video evidence of MLK's "I have a dream speech". It's another thing to show footage of rape or involuntary castration/genital mutilation. He's absolutely correct in the fact the internet consumes people and puts too much stuff on display. So unless we can have a private backlog of videos for the sake of "Knowledge" I also support the video's removal. 2604:2000:1107:A0DA:7594:FACD:FA9:34BF (talk) 22:14, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Volstra gives a good analogy with the film poster. When secondary sources discuss a film poster, an image of the poster can clarify what they describe in a way that mere words cannot. For a similar example, compare Barack Obama "Hope" poster#Concept and design:

Fairey has said, "My historical inspiration was the well-known JFK portrait where he is posed in a three-quarters view looking slightly upward and out into the distance. The image of Lincoln on the five-dollar bill has a similar feel."

Images of that JFK portrait and a $5 bill obviously help our readers tell what Fairey is talking about in that quote. Here, however, there is nothing in secondary sources discussing Etika's suicide that would possibly be clarified by the video itself. As I said, no sources discuss style or maturity. Huon (talk) 00:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

@Volstra, VinnieBat1, and Huon:Very few sources on the subject of rape of castration talk about it as a violent attack on a person's gender, at least none that wouldn't be clarified with live footage. So what better way to show it off than to upload that shock footage on Misplaced Pages?... Or you can cut the shit. Plenty of sources either have the video or explain the contents of the video. The page for the porn anime Boku no Piko has a video where a man decribes what it's like to watch it on archive.org. The video is summarized on 2 sentences on the page itself, and cited as normal

The series gained a niche following in the Anglophone world after a viral video called "Don't watch an Anime Called Boku" was posted on YouTube circa 2010. In the video, a male viewer is heard describing the three episodes of the OVA and comparing the experience of watching them to selling his soul to Lucifer. It has since evolved into an Internet meme and a copypasta.

Why can't we just upload Etika's suicide note on Archive and cite it like a normal source, then describe what happens in the video? We're bascialy confirming everything he said about he internet being a voyeuristic hub, we're spitting on his corpse dude. 2604:2000:1107:A0DA:2869:A9D4:8FFB:3828 (talk) 18:56, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Per the above and the lack of an explanation of what this video adds to the page beyond the summary of its content already present, I have removed it (again). Huon (talk) 00:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@Huon: You’re gonna have to remove it a third time... check the page history. 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:7451:57D1:C907:3442 (talk) 22:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Since it's not currently in the article I don't have to remove it, but I still stand by the reasoning I provided above and would ask those who want to add the video to explain how it improves the article. Merely it being freely licensed doesn't mean we have to put it in, and as far as I can tell, it's not an example of the kind of video Etika is notable for. Huon (talk) 23:23, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested for indefinite extended confirmed protection

I have requested for indefinite extended confirmed protection due to childish vandalism coming from multiple IP's. That way users that have a 30-day-old account with over 500 edits can only make edits. This will prevent persistent vandalism. VARNAMi (talk) 09:21, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

"Don't watch an Anime Called Boku". Internet Archive. 28 August 2016. Retrieved 19 June 2019.

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