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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mikis Theodorakis article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Antisemitic statements

I agree that if it were just covered once in the news once and quickly forgotten, then you could argue it was WP:UNDUE to mention. However, the reality is that Theodorakis' comments have been discussed in several books and academic papers about antisemitism, even years or decades after the fact. The following is just what I found in a quick Google Scholar search.

• Gerstenfeld, Manfred (2005). "THE DEEP ROOTS OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN EUROPEAN SOCIETY". Jewish Political Studies Review. 17 (1/2): 3–46. ISSN 0792-335X.
• Gur-Ze’ev, Ilan (2010). "The New Anti-Semitism—Toward Educational Challenges". The New Anti-Semitism—Toward Educational Challenges. Brill. ISBN 978-94-6091-272-6.
• Rosenfeld, Alvin (2017-07-05). "Modern Jewish Intellectual Failure: A Brief History". The Jewish Divide Over Israel. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-315-13280-8.
• Laqueur, Walter (2006). The Changing Face of Anti-Semitism: From Ancient Times to the Present Day. Oxford University Press. p. 9. ISBN 978-0-19-977473-9.
• Katz, Steven T.; Bayme, Steven (2010). Continuity and Change: A Festschrift in Honor of Irving Greenberg's 75th Birthday. University Press of America. p. 263. ISBN 978-0-7618-5145-5.
• Wistrich, Robert S. (2010). A Lethal Obsession: Anti-Semitism from Antiquity to the Global Jihad. Random House Publishing Group. ISBN 978-1-58836-899-7.
• Loizides, Neophytos (2020). "Doves and Hawks: Frames of Peace, Stalemates, and Crises". The Politics of Majority Nationalism. Stanford University Press. ISBN 978-0-8047-9633-0.
• Droumpouki, Anna Maria (2016). "Shaping Holocaust memory in Greece: memorials and their public history". National Identities. 18 (2): 199–216. doi:10.1080/14608944.2015.1027760.

WP:BLP is not and has never been an excuse to whitewash negative information about the subject that has been extensively covered in reliable sources. When reverting it was claimed that the remarks were "taken out of context". That may be the opinion of some wikipedia editors, but not what WP:RS says. So I suggest the following content is restored:

In 2003, he stated, "Everything that happens today in the world has to do with the Zionists … American Jews are behind the world economic crisis that has hit Greece as well." He has described himself as "anti-Israel and anti-Semite," because "this small nation (Israel) is the root of evil".

(t · c) buidhe 06:59, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Since neither of the two editors who reverted bothered to reply here, I have posted to WP:NPOVN. If that doesn't work, I'll have to start a RfC. (t · c) buidhe 05:24, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

It's not so simple. The remarks are clearly taken out of context, and Theodorakis has repeatedly deplored the Holocaust, and apologized for those comments, yet you do not see it fit to include that in the article. Only the cherry-picked comments that seem to conform to a particular POV. Khirurg (talk) 05:40, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

My position to include is based on the many reliable sources that have discussed the comments in question, most of which have labeled them as antisemitic. Your opinion or mine is simply not relevant, unless there are reliable sources that back it up. (t · c) buidhe 05:46, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing. Starting with this , much more coming soon. Khirurg (talk) 05:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• I don't believe that general-interest sources are particularly good sources on antisemitism, which is why I cited academic publications. Furthermore, if considered reliable, it's an additional source covering the issue so can only bolster the case for inclusion. If Theodorakis later stated that he does not consider himself an anti-Semite, that could be added to the article: "In a later interview, Theodorakis stated that he does not consider himself an anti-Semite". (t · c) buidhe 06:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

The only criterion for inclusion is whether a source meets WP:RS. Whether you believe it is "general interest" and not "particularly good" is not relevant. Khirurg (talk) 17:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• Relevant. Still being covered in 2020 coverage of him like this piece about him at age 95 that has a whole section of "accused of antisemitism".VikingDrummer (talk) 10:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• Since neither of the two editors who reverted bothered to reply here... Nope, inaccurate statement. This is a diachronic dispute which has flared-up many times before, as I have written in my edit-summary. My very extensive comments from the archives are included here: Regarding Mikis Theodorakis' Anti-Zionism and Accusations of anti-semitism section. As I have written in the archives, Mikis Theodorakis's extensive work creating cantatas supporting the Jewish victims of the Holocaust with poetry distinctly supporting the Jewish hero of the Mauthausen cantata, and denouncing those who perpetrated and supported the Holocaust, speaks to the fact of Mikis's pro-Jewish historical stance. Therefore, adding the anti-semitic comments should be balanced by Khirurg's clarifications at a minimum. Dr. K. 18:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

This revert is very odd. The DW source explicitly says "apology", and I've even included the inline quote. It is very strange that someone would think that this "failed verification". Khirurg (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

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