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DYK queue status There are currently 6 filled queues. Humans, please consider promoting a prep to queue if you have the time! v t e Earliest time for next DYK update: 12:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Current time: 05:04, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Update frequency: once every 12 hours Last updated: 5 hours ago( verify reset purge )

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This page has archives. Sections older than 14 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies, and its processes can be discussed.

Moving the SOHA

I just archived the discussion on special occasion hooks. It seemed like the takeaway with the most chance of success would be moving the Special Occasion Holding Area to the top, instead of leaving it at the bottom where it's often ignored by prep set builders who usually take older hooks for a set. Thoughts? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 16:48, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Like I said on the previous discussion, if anything helps the reviewers to spot a special occasion hook faster, let it be done. Moving SOHA to the top of the page is fundamentally a good idea. But, in my opinion, it is useful if, and only if we have all the special occasions hooks in the holding area. Otherwise, it doesn't take anything more than pressing that page down key to see that same SOHA at the end of the page. Now, as it is being discuss, can someone help me figure out why do we have a SOHA on awaiting nominations page, when we are not allowed to nominate them in that section? Thanks for starting this discussion! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:59, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

It's probably a remnant from the time before the Approved hooks had their own page. CMD (talk) 17:20, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not convinced, but in any event I do not support moving anything until Shubinator is contacted and we make sure the move will not break DYKHousekeepingBot's creation of the Count of DYK Hooks table—I also do not support any move until the bot can be updated accordingly. Frankly, that table is far more valuable to DYK as a whole than the placement of the Special occasions section. CMD is correct about it being a remnant, and Maile that I was the one who did it (I'm pretty sure I also set up the Approved page): the stub of the Special occasions section was left on the main nominations page as a pointer to its new location when the Approved page was created to split those nominations off from the main page when it became overloaded and incapable of transcluding all the nominations. The reason you can't nominate the hooks in that section is the same as why you can't nominate ones for April Fools' Day on its page: these are ordinary nominations until they are reviewed and passed, and need to be reviewed without special priority or sequestration along with contemporaneous nominations. The idea of putting nominations in a special section at the bottom either privileges or disadvantages them, and is something I would absolutely oppose. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:26, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: I wouldn't support nominating special occasion hooks in a separate area either—but I'm not sure why you don't want to move the the SOHA for only the approved hooks, as long as it doesn't break the bot? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 03:52, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

BlueMoonset I agree, and I don't suggest to add SO nomination there, but if it serves no purpose than just pointing to the new location, is it really needed there? – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 09:37, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

What's the benefit of it being at the top rather than the bottom? It's always been at the bottom, so prep builders should know where it is, the times when I've built preps, I've always been able to find the SOHO fine. Don't see how it being at the top would mean people check it more than at the bottom- if prep builders are missing it, then it is their error. This just seems like a pointless discussion over nothing, in my opinion. Which seems to be the OP's forte on this talkpage at the moment- trying to "fix" things that aren't broken, "fixing" hooks by cutting content on them for no reason.... Joseph2302 (talk) 19:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Fundamentally its a good idea, but in its current form, it looks to me more like a solution looking for a problem. At the end, its as simple as pressing the page down key to see that same SOHA at the end of the page. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:16, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

i really just thought that if it were me, it's easier to remember all the hooks there if i have to pass by them and be reminded by them every time i build a prep set. it sometimes slips my mind otherwise, so i thought it might help. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 19:34, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Just mentioning that I am not a experienced prep builder. If regular prep builders find it a useful suggestion, then let it be done. Thanks! - Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:43, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

The benefit is that prep builders, who should be starting at the top of the page and working down, will see those SO request first thing. —valereee (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Vibes are happening on this page. Check the time stamp of my post below, with the same message. — Maile (talk) 20:37, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Yep, DYKHousekeepingBot will break if this change is made today. If there's consensus for the change, no worries, we can coordinate to avoid disruptions. Best to also check with the other bot operators for bots touching the noms or approved pages: WugBot and MusikBot. Shubinator (talk) 01:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Advantage of moving the special hooks sub section to the top - it's a short list, and would make it less likely to accidentally overlook a SO request. The prep builder will know right away if they should include a SO in the set they're building. After a glance at that short SO list, the promoter can scroll through the oldest dates on the routine promotions. As is, maybe by the time they get enough hooks for a set, they didn't remember to also have a look at the SO hooks. We're human - we make mistakes. — Maile (talk) 20:27, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

• Not sure if this is resolved. EEng 04:36, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

  It's not. I really wasn't expecting this to be as controversial as it is, but we need more input for a consensus. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 04:49, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Support

• I would support moving SOHA to the top of the approved nominations page. Z1720 (talk) 17:33, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
• Support moving it to the top. —valereee (talk) 00:14, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
• Support placing the special holding dates to the top of approved nominations, which seems logical to me. As for the Kavyansh.Singh question about SOHA notice also at the bottom of the nominations page: I think there was a reason for it, but it escapes my memory. BlueMoonset would likely have the answer to that, and might have been the editor who placed it there. — Maile (talk) 00:26, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
• I support moving the SOHA to the top; there would appear to be benefits in doing so. Schwede66 10:54, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

• To me it doesn't matter, either seems fine and the same. So happy to defer to what other people think is most helpful. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:54, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
• I have no opinion on this and don't mind either way. As long as its still accessible to put hooks in. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 13:24, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
• Consider me neutral on this. No major issues with moving the special occasion holding area, if helps the prep builders. But in my opinion, both the ways appear more or less the same. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 14:39, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Close?

It's been seven days. Is there anything we need to do other than move the code to the top of the page? —valereee (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

@Valereee: If the closer finds that there's consensus to do this, then we have to talk to shubinator first—the DYKHousekeepingBot will break. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 18:14, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron, do you think we need a formal close? There's no formal opposition, just support/neutral. —valereee (talk) 18:19, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't, but we're the proposers here so that's probably a decision for someone else. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 18:22, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Maybe Shubinator could do the honour of closing (and then tweak the bot). :-) Schwede66 09:05, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Shubinator: I think that's a fine idea, how about you? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 01:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Yet another set proposal for New Year's

So, ten weeks out: I've been working on New Year foods and I was thinking a set for New Year's Day or Eve would be cool. There are some pretty cool possible spinoff articles at that draft (who knew the Spanish eat 12 grapes at midnight while wearing gifted red underwear) but other New Year articles besides food traditions would work. I'm going to move this draft to article in the next couple weeks and ask for a SO if anyone else has a New Year's hook they'd want to develop. —valereee (talk) 19:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

jewish people have quite a few different new year's celebration foods, but our new year is in like september so that's not helpful. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 19:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron, actually, I was planning to include in that article NY foods for New Years that are celebrated other times than January 1. I just hadn't worked my way out to Chinese NY and Jewish NY yet. But, yeah, if an article was about Jewish NY foods, you might prefer to have it run September 25, 2022. :) —valereee (talk) 16:26, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

ah, fun fun! I'll consider writing something when August rolls around, then theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 17:22, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

@Valereee: Meant to comment on this earlier. I think this is a really good idea. Don't know if you're familiar with the Huell Howser California's Gold series, but I seem to remember an episode he did on New Year's day tradition of Japanese mochi pounding. Not just the eating of mochi, but the family tradition of having a mochi pounding on New Year's Day. Anyway, I think you have a good start on the article. Looking forward to seeing it on the MP. — Maile (talk) 01:55, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Maile66, and also for the Huell Howser suggestion! I found a link to that episode! —valereee (talk) 12:29, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

@Valereee: Oh, good, you found that episode. I think he might have done a lot of other cultural holiday tradition related episodes over the years, but that one pops out in my mind. I vaguely remember one he did on the Mexican tradition of creating the nativity in homes, and the visitation-ceremonial events that happen with that. Good thinking on his part to leave his entire collection to Chapman. — Maile (talk) 14:01, 11 November 2021 (UTC) Well ... heck ... I just clicked on that link, and the next one in Huell's queue is the Christmas tradition of tamale making. — Maile (talk) 14:14, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

I did a thing!

The DYKstats page seemed to be pretty hodgepodge to me, because it requires a dedicated user to add in all the hooks for the tables to be up to date, and that's pretty slog-gy. So, I spent way, way more hours than is generally considered ethical to write this script! If you go to any WP:Recent additions archive, there'll be a button at the top that reads "Get views!" Before clicking it, open up the Javascript console, because otherwise your computer is going to slow for quite a bit. Once you click it, it'll spit out, in a format ready to be added to the wikitable, any hook that meets the required threshold of 416.6 views! It currently doesn't support multi-hooks, but I will get on that in a little bit. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 21:27, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

it's not perfect just yet, but I'm working on it theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 21:28, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

This is probably one of the imperfections you already know about, but in case you hadn't noticed... On the current page, it doesn't find Feetloaf. (It also doesn't find it in October, where I wouldn't expect it to.) MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:10, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew about that—this is one of those things where I'm going to call "feature, not bug", because i don't trust every using the tool to know that Feetloaf should belong in October, not November. The first prep set of every month can be added manually. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 21:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Could this perhaps be browser-specific, or specific to some other item at our individual user Preferences? I have Firefox, Chrome and Edge browsers. My skin is Modern. I'm not seeing anything at all when I follow those steps. Also, I have no idea where my Javascript console is, as I only deal with it if a specific page tells me to. — Maile (talk) 23:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

You'd have to install it by adding importScript('User:Theleekycauldron/DYKViews.js'); to your common.js page. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 02:41, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

yeah, you'd have to install the script. You can open the javascript console by right clicking somewhere, selecting "Inspect", and going to the console tab in there. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 05:27, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

update on thing: it now supports multi-hooks and'll now just spit out the entire table at once! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 02:16, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

The archives are gonna get pretty long if they're all up-to-date—each month should have a separate page. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 02:50, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Mandarax: fixed feature bug—running the script on any given monthpage will also return any relevant hooks from the bottom of the next month's page (which is really still this month). So, if you ran the script in October, it would find Feetloaf. i just want to stress how god damn annoying that was to get working—promises make me want to tear my hair out—but it does work now! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 05:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for all of the effort you've put in. Now, I'm just asking a question and not in any way suggesting that you do anything about it, but does the script account for the previous and next day's "background" views, as described in Rule 3?  MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM  21:02, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Mandarax: yep! The trigger is an average of 1,024 views on either side of the date (i do like my powers of 2). It'll also exclude any hook that doesn't meet the marker even when background views are gone (so, 10,000 view hook with 1 view on either side is excluded). If it's a multi-hook where a bolded article doesn't reach the required threshold on its own, it'll also account for previous and next day views there. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 22:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Dianxi Xiaoge

I have some reservations about approving the nomination at this time over the "one of only three Chinese influencers to gain international influence" claim, as well as the detailedness of the internet career stuff and the mentions of her political views. Can another editor who is an expert on China take a look at the article and give a second opinion? Thanks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:01, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

The article doesn't use the phrase "one of only three Chinese influencers to gain international influence", so I'm not sure where you got that, but it does say she is one of only three "Chinese Internet celebrities who have reached international prominence", and the problem with that claim is that it's sourced to an article that is two years old and therefore not up-to-date.

With regard to the overall length, I would agree that it is overly detailed and could use a trim. I'm not sure this is relevant to DYK however, as "overly detailed" is not one of our criteria. What I would say is that the level of detail does raise the chances of close paraphrasing so the article would need to be carefully checked for that. Anybody else with an opinion on this article? Gatoclass (talk) 14:41, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

I guess my original comment was a paraphrase of the "international prominence" wording, and yes that was the statement I was referring to. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:16, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Question on excessive quoting

In my review at Template:Did you know nominations/Time, Love, Memory, I raised a concern that the extensive use of quotes, even though accurately attributed, may run afoul of WP:LONGQUOTE or WP:OVERQUOTING. The nominator/creator (User:Artem.G) replied that they believe the quotes are fine and are a "valuable part of the article." The hook is good to go except for the longquote/overquote issue. I would appreciate it if someone more experienced with the issue could take a look and offer some guidance. Thanks. Cbl62 (talk) 22:15, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Also, "Plot" for non-fiction? Perhaps, 'Synopsis'. Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:55, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

The quotes in the "Reception" section are fine, and some of the quotes in the "Synopsis" section are probably necessary given the difficulty of paraphrasing specialized ideas. Some of the other quotes in that section could probably be readily paraphrased though. Gatoclass (talk) 02:19, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Adjusting WP:DYKSTATS guidelines

Hi, y'all! So, I've been putting quite a bit of work into the WP:DYKSTATS page, where some of our most popular hooks are stored and celebrated. There's a rule in counting pageviews that says that hooks should be adjusted for any background popularity before they're added to the stats pages; this is a sensible rule, that makes sure that if a hook about, say, Bill Gates (whose page gets roughly 10,000 views a day) wouldn't get a spot on the stats page if the article gets 12,000 views on the day it's aired.

I have an issue with how the background views are calculated, though. If you go and look at the pageviews for any given hook on the stats page, there's usually some lingering attention the day after a hook is aired, which is good. It shows that some people were really interested in the article, and it wasn't just a one-off for everyone who looked at it. The problem is, next-day views can actually be counted against a hook, because of the way the averaging system works; In terms of an actual example, SpaceX Starship from this month comes to mind. It got an average of 2,150 views in the three days preceding the DYK date, 12,277 views on the day it aired on DYK, and 3,010 views the day after, slowly trending down towards the 2,150 as the week goes by. Under our current averaging system, it doesn't count as over 10,000, because the fact that the hook actually interested 900 people in the article for longer than a day counts against the hook's chances—so we subtract the average of 3,010 and 2,093, which comes out 9,675.5 views when it should be around 10,077.

I think that this rule should be adjusted, so that instead of focusing on the two days immediately surrounding the DYK date, we should look at the average of the two or three days preceding the DYK date, to keep prior popularity in the calculation without penalizing lingering attention. Thoughts? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 03:31, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

No objection to this. —valereee (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

That's pretty much the way I've always calculated it anyway (though I usually do the calculation using longer-term averages, not just over the preceding three days). I didn't actually know that somebody had added a formula whereby you are supposed to include an average of the day immediately before and after, and would have objected to that had I known about it, so certainly I would have no objection to the rule being formally changed. Gatoclass (talk) 22:30, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Prep 2 Ineligible hook?

Les Cabrils station (DYK nom: here) is not a new article. It was created in July 2021 as Des Cabrils station, then an article that was almost exactly the same was created under the name Les Cabrils station on 9 November 2021, and the histories have since been merged. Therefore, it was not a new creation on 9 November, but on 25 July 2021 instead, so would have needed to be nominated within 7 days of 25 July, and hasn't been 5x expanded recently. I don't see how this nomination can ever be passed, when fundamentally it wasn't a new article, just a copy of an existing article under a new name (which then used a histmerge). Allowing this would just encourage people in future to create duplicate articles just to call them "new" to get a DYK. Pinging @Oaktree b, Victuallers, and Theleekycauldron: as creator, approver, and promoter of this nomination. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:22, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Probably my (and the nominators) mistake. The articles appeared to be created by one person in a confusion. The DYK nomination was one spelling and the article was another. The nominator said that they had created both and I (obviously now) didnt check every version. Victuallers (talk) 12:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: Thanks for the good catch! I've pulled the hook, and marked it for close unless there's an explanation for why this might have counted as a new article that I'm not anticipating. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 19:23, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

This is not the first time this has happened. In 2016 Oaktree b created James Howard Scott with 3.8 kB of readable prose. Then on March 22, 2017, they redirected that to James Scott Howard, pasting the contents of the original article at that new title. At nomination time, the article was 4.7 kB of prose (a 1.2x expansion). Because it was a cut-and-paste move, it would have seemed like a new article and was not noticed in the initial DYK review, which took place on March 27. An administrator then hist-merged the two on March 30. That article was ineligible for DYK as well; given that this has happened on two occasions, I would urge Oaktree b to check that they are actually expanding articles by 5x before nominating in the future. DanCherek (talk) 21:46, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Belle Delphine

Currently in Prep 4 : "Did you know .... that Belle Delphine's (pictured) online popularity surged after she replicated the orgasm faces featured in Japanese manga?"

Okay, the article has been improved to GA status, but it has seen a lot of controversy, including one legal request of defamation on the talk page. I don't mind people working on the article to ensure it complies with WP:BLP, but I really don't think it's a good idea to publicise this on our main page. Or am I just out of touch with "teh kidz" these days? Ritchie333 11:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Pinging partitipants : Soulbust, Sdkb, Theleekycauldron Ritchie333 12:54, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

FWIW, that legal request on the talk page is bogus (that isn't how the "Right To Be Forgotten" works), although the content identified (and its surrounding subject matter) was a WP:BLPNAME and general sourcing issue, and accordingly identified and removed during GA review. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Is that bored-looking face supposed to represent orgasm? Really?? I'd prefer the hook without video. Picasso's head of a woman would be so much better to show, only it's still under copyright. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm not seeing "a lot of controversy" concerning this page. The article appears to be well written, well sourced and stable. The legal request, regardless of its legitimacy, is redundant given that the contested content has been removed. If there are any more controversies about the page that I've missed, it would be helpful if they were outlined. Gatoclass (talk) 13:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand what the problem is. Could you elaborate? —Kusma (talk) 13:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Is it a good idea to have a woman pretending to orgasm on the front page? Is it a good advertisement for Misplaced Pages? It is appropriate when we're still trying to address the gender balance after years of trying? Of course, if I see 10 longstanding female editors saying, "of course it's not a problem", I guess I'm over-reacting. AFAIK, the only one to comment so far is Gerda, who doesn't like it. Ritchie333 14:03, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Delphine is parodying the silly ahegao faces found in manga. Quite frankly I found the GIF to be not only funny, but charming and poignant. Who doesn't feel sorry for kids today having to negotiate the tsunami of filth they are exposed to on the internet? That somebody is out there making fun of it is in my view a positive thing, that helps put it all into an appropriate perspective. Gatoclass (talk) 14:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• There's fairly long-standing and well-defended precedent that WP:NOTCENSORED applies to the Main Page, and that's included past appearances of nudity. I've argued that we should change our approach for things like disturbing medical images, but this is much less concerning. If we're going to allow an article on a popular pornographic actress to appear, using a hook that involves sexuality seems the obvious choice and will likely be extraordinarily popular. It's also not surprising that such an article has a bunch of talk page activity, so I'd want to see more evidence of problems there before I'd have concerns. The last thing I'd add is that I'd see this differently if we were featuring many such people, as that'd start to reflect poorly on us. But this is the first instance I can recall. Pornography is a part of the world and belongs in a comprehensive encyclopedia, and therefore (under our current rules/norms) by extension the Main Page. {{u|Sdkb}}  14:49, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages Did you know discussion pages