Talk:Amir Khusrau: Difference between revisions

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		Isn't Amir Khusro also credited with "inventing" the sitar (and some other musical instruments)? ] 20:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

		Evidently, the inventor of the Sitar is a different Amir Khusro. I have added a section regarding this in called "Amir Khusro and the origin of the Sitar" in the main article.
		] \| ].

		Thanks! He is also sometimes credited with "inventing" the tabla. Do you know anything about that? ] 28 June 2005 19:58 (UTC)

		That is correct. Amir Khusro is said to have fashioned the Tabla as a "split" version of the traditional Indian drum, the Pakhawaj. I have thus far not been able to find any definitive or usable material on the subject, though. ]

		Do you think there's any harm in adding this to the entry for now: "He is credited with fashioning the ] as a "split" version of the traditional Indian drum, the ]." ] 3 July 2005 11:46 (UTC)

		I did not happen upon this page until now. Sorry for the delay in my reply. I think there is no harm in adding the line for the tabla in the form you suggest, until somebody comes up with more definitive material to either confirm or refute the statement. Should there be a separate section for it, or should the line just be added to the section on the sitar? The section could be renamed to something like "Amir Khusro and the origins of the Sitar and the Tabla". What do you think? ] \| ].

		I changed the section title and added the tabla sentence. I put it before the sitar paragraph; reads better that way, I think. ] 12:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

		Looks good! I made a minor edit to correct a couple of typos. Thanks! ] 21:51, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

		==Invention of Tabla and Sitar==
		There is no controversy that Tabla was invented by Amir Kusro by splitting the traditional indian drum. However there is lots of confusion about Sitar. Sitar existed before Amir Khusro in some form, was reshaped by him, and now is in a form that was reshaped in 18th century. The reason for confusion being that the word Sitar is itself confusing. The word has persian origin and can sound Seh-Taar (3 strings) or See-Taar (30 strings). To add to confusion, there was a legendary sitar player named Khusro Khan in the 18th century, exactly the same time the sitar underwent modern shape. Maybe the 18th century sitar player Amir Khusro got credit for the modern sitar and then the 13th century Sufi Amir Khuro was confused with it.] 13:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

		== Hindvi or Hindi? ==

		There are two entries in "Works" which use the word Hindvi. Should this perhaps be Hindi? ] 14:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
		:I think Hindvi is the term for the dialects of central and northern India, basically like Hindustani. ] ] 20:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

		''Hindawi'' is the term most commonly used by contemporary sources to describe the range of languages spoken from the Indus to Bengal. Hindii is a word of more recent provenance. See, for example, Lelyveld, D. (1994). "Zubān-e Urdū- Mu‘allā’ and the Idol of Linguistic Origins." The Annual of Urdu Studies 9. I would also suggest that you remove the reference to the ''Ḳhāliq Bārī '' as its attribution has been shown by Ḥafiẕ Maḥmūd Shīrānī, in the frontispiece to the 1773-4 A.D. Anjuman-e Taraqqī-ye Urdū edition of the text, to be apocryphal. The work instead appears to have been written in 1622, and the author went by the name Ẓiyā ud-Dīn Ḳhusrau. The actual intended title of the glossary was Ḥafż ul-Lisān. See Shīrānī, Ḥ. M. (1944). "Dībācha-ye duvum ." Ḥafż ul-Lisān (a.k.a. Ḳhāliq Bārī). Ḥ. M. Shīrānī. Delhi, Anjumman-e Taraqqi-e Urdū. --] 15:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

		== Yurikbot ==

		This is getting really annoying! I tried before to get through to Yurik, and I've just tried again. If this happens again, can someone else please try to get his attention? --] 02:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
		: Everything is as it suppose to, see my talk. --] 05:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

		Yurik's reply:
		"The bot is doing everything correctly: it replaces a link hi:अमीर खुसरो with hi:आमिर खुसरो because the first one does not exist -- its a redirect! You never want to link a page to a redirect as that redirect may change at any point, which would cause conflicts later on. If the first title is the proper one, you should move the hi: article to the new name, which would cause a bot (ANY interwiki bot, not just mine) to update all referencing pages."

		Can someone who knows that they're doing please make the recommended change? Thanks! --] 12:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

		== Transliteration ==

		I'm gonna go ahead and change the Hindi translation to the more scholarly ] or ]. Thanks. I would really appreciate it if someone would give the Hindi for the Hindi riddles. ] ] 20:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

		I will also later add the Urdu alphabet version of the Hindvi poetry, as that is what the source had originally. ] ] 20:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

		== Bollywood Song ==

		Does anyone have any objection if we take out the bollywood song, and just retain the lyrics, translation and discussion of Zee Haal-e-Miskeen? --] 02:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

		I agree. I don't think a mutilated version of Amir's poetry by any wood should appear in this article in the first place.] 18:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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Isn't Amir Khusro also credited with "inventing" the sitar (and some other musical instruments)? Sarabseth 20:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Evidently, the inventor of the Sitar is a different Amir Khusro. I have added a section regarding this in called "Amir Khusro and the origin of the Sitar" in the main article. Kamran Saeed | Talk.

Thanks! He is also sometimes credited with "inventing" the tabla. Do you know anything about that? Sarabseth 28 June 2005 19:58 (UTC)

That is correct. Amir Khusro is said to have fashioned the Tabla as a "split" version of the traditional Indian drum, the Pakhawaj. I have thus far not been able to find any definitive or usable material on the subject, though. Kamran

Do you think there's any harm in adding this to the entry for now: "He is credited with fashioning the Tabla as a "split" version of the traditional Indian drum, the Pakhawaj." Sarabseth 3 July 2005 11:46 (UTC)

I did not happen upon this page until now. Sorry for the delay in my reply. I think there is no harm in adding the line for the tabla in the form you suggest, until somebody comes up with more definitive material to either confirm or refute the statement. Should there be a separate section for it, or should the line just be added to the section on the sitar? The section could be renamed to something like "Amir Khusro and the origins of the Sitar and the Tabla". What do you think? Kamran Saeed | Talk.

I changed the section title and added the tabla sentence. I put it before the sitar paragraph; reads better that way, I think. Sarabseth 12:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks good! I made a minor edit to correct a couple of typos. Thanks! Kamran 21:51, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Invention of Tabla and Sitar

There is no controversy that Tabla was invented by Amir Kusro by splitting the traditional indian drum. However there is lots of confusion about Sitar. Sitar existed before Amir Khusro in some form, was reshaped by him, and now is in a form that was reshaped in 18th century. The reason for confusion being that the word Sitar is itself confusing. The word has persian origin and can sound Seh-Taar (3 strings) or See-Taar (30 strings). To add to confusion, there was a legendary sitar player named Khusro Khan in the 18th century, exactly the same time the sitar underwent modern shape. Maybe the 18th century sitar player Amir Khusro got credit for the modern sitar and then the 13th century Sufi Amir Khuro was confused with it.Hassanfarooqi 13:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Hindvi or Hindi?

There are two entries in "Works" which use the word Hindvi. Should this perhaps be Hindi? Sarabseth 14:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I think Hindvi is the term for the dialects of central and northern India, basically like Hindustani. Mar de Sin 20:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hindawi is the term most commonly used by contemporary sources to describe the range of languages spoken from the Indus to Bengal. Hindii is a word of more recent provenance. See, for example, Lelyveld, D. (1994). "Zubān-e Urdū- Mu‘allā’ and the Idol of Linguistic Origins." The Annual of Urdu Studies 9. I would also suggest that you remove the reference to the Ḳhāliq Bārī as its attribution has been shown by Ḥafiẕ Maḥmūd Shīrānī, in the frontispiece to the 1773-4 A.D. Anjuman-e Taraqqī-ye Urdū edition of the text, to be apocryphal. The work instead appears to have been written in 1622, and the author went by the name Ẓiyā ud-Dīn Ḳhusrau. The actual intended title of the glossary was Ḥafż ul-Lisān. See Shīrānī, Ḥ. M. (1944). "Dībācha-ye duvum ." Ḥafż ul-Lisān (a.k.a. Ḳhāliq Bārī). Ḥ. M. Shīrānī. Delhi, Anjumman-e Taraqqi-e Urdū. --Haklu 15:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yurikbot

This is getting really annoying! I tried before to get through to Yurik, and I've just tried again. If this happens again, can someone else please try to get his attention? --Sarabseth 02:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Everything is as it suppose to, see my talk. --Yurik 05:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Yurik's reply: "The bot is doing everything correctly: it replaces a link hi:अमीर खुसरो with hi:आमिर खुसरो because the first one does not exist -- its a redirect! You never want to link a page to a redirect as that redirect may change at any point, which would cause conflicts later on. If the first title is the proper one, you should move the hi: article to the new name, which would cause a bot (ANY interwiki bot, not just mine) to update all referencing pages."

Can someone who knows that they're doing please make the recommended change? Thanks! --Sarabseth 12:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration

I'm gonna go ahead and change the Hindi translation to the more scholarly IAST or Library of Calcutta Romanization. Thanks. I would really appreciate it if someone would give the Hindi for the Hindi riddles. Mar de Sin 20:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I will also later add the Urdu alphabet version of the Hindvi poetry, as that is what the source had originally. Mar de Sin 20:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Bollywood Song

Does anyone have any objection if we take out the bollywood song, and just retain the lyrics, translation and discussion of Zee Haal-e-Miskeen? --Sarabseth 02:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think a mutilated version of Amir's poetry by any wood should appear in this article in the first place.Hassanfarooqi 18:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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