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Irish republicanism NA‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Irish republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish republicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish republicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish republicanismIrish republicanism NA This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Failte! Welcome!

Alright, everyone. I asked for it, and recieved enough support that I believe this project is worth it. Come out ye Fennians all! Let us do or die! Erin Go Bragh 08:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought this group was about writing articles on the IRA, not supporting it. Logoistic 00:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Your thoughts were correct. I use quite a bit of fanciful language like that, out of habit. I do refrain from it in articles, though. Erin Go Bragh 03:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

By which, I mean of course, adding ourselves to the Participants list, and start collaborating! Erin Go Bragh 03:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Banner

As you can see, I've been bold and used Image:Erin Go Bragh flag.jpg for out Banner. I love the flag, and would propose it as sort of an official image for out WikiProject. Erin Go Bragh 09:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Might I suggest an alternative image, namely File:Ie pres.png ? This flag symbolises Irish republicanism and is an "official" flag, as opposed to the current flag, which feels something like a caricature. gaillimh 23:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the symbol we already have symbolises Irish republicanism and nationalism more than the one suggested by Galway.--Vintagekits 23:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the President's personal standard really represents Irish republicanism. I just plain like the one we're using; it's got lots of symbolism in it, and it has my name! ; ) Erin Go Bragh 02:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how your name is relevant to the discussion. While we're on the topic however, it might be of interest for you to know that Swift's parents were English-born and he had actually spoken out against the idea of a united Ireland. That is to say, he was most certainly not a nationalist. Back to the subject at hand however, the flag is most definitely a symbol of republicanism. If you prefer, the Leinster flag would work just as well (it looks a bit like your favoured flag). In as far as having "Erin Go Bragh" included on the banner, I'd have to be opposed to that, as the phrase itself is not used in Ireland and is a caricature created by Irish-Americans. gaillimh 03:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

My name fits into the discussion as a bit of light-heartedness, trying to keep goodwill among us through the use of humour. Aside from that, and Swift (who's name I've always admired, both from how it rolls off, and because of the man's literature, and willingness to point out absurdities in the society around him, regardless of how he acted/his politics), and Swift's English parents, my impression of the phrase is that it's used by Irish Nationalists in many places, regardless of where they live. I do recall the tale of several Irish regiments in the U.S. Civil War who fought and died under the banner of Erin Go Bragh, because their families were starving in Ireland and they had to come over to America. The same tale goes on to mention quite a bit of a plan thought out by one of the U.S. generals, who decided he was going to raise a Fenian Army from the American Irish, and go and liberate his homeland. Unfortunately, not many people supported his idea. But, I digress.

You mentioned on my talk page that you'd not label yourself an active participant, but your opinion is still, of course, just as valid. I really like the sybolism contained in the Erin Go Bragh flag. It is distinctly representative of Irish Nationalism. The Leinster flag is representative of Leinster, as well as Ireland as a whole sometimes, while the Presidential standard is representative of the Irish government. Since we're focusing on a non-governmental movement, that's been outlawed by said government, I think it illogical to use the latter, while for the former, the Erin Go Bragh flag simply has more to it. Again, just my thoughts. Erin Go Bragh 08:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the Erin Go Bragh flag, Leinster flag or any of these:

• - - File:Irishrep.jpg - File:CIAFLAG2.jpg -

Would be good choices. I don't agree with the presidential flag though, largely as the presidents of the republic haven't ever really been republican. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 18:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The fragmented flag from the first republic was actually the other one I considered when making the banner. I would've put it all up to a vote/consent/discussion in the first place, but everyone who mentioned an interest in the thing to me said that they'd like to take part if such a Projet were set up, so I went ahead and did what I thought was involved in doing such a thing. Getting things moving and all that! If the flag's really a big problem, I don't care as much about that as actually forming a group of editors interested in writing about the IRA and Irish nationalism. Erin Go Bragh 00:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't really mind which flag we use, put my personal preference would be the flag of the 1st republic. Derry Boi 19:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

INLA

Do groups such as the Irpies, or the political groups fall under this scope? -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 21:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd say yes to the INLA. They're an armed republican group in Ireland. As for political groups, like the "political wings" of the various IRAs, I'm not sure. I'd venture to say "Yes, why not?", but it does take some consideration, I guess. Erin Go Bragh 02:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Change of name and of focus

Hi there! I'd love to collaborate with some of you on writing articles pertaining to Irish nationalism. However, to avoid some potential conflict down the road, might I humbly suggest changing the name of the WikiProject to WikiProject Irish Nationalism, WikiProject Irish Republicanism, or a similar derivitave. The IRA, while an important and necessary part of Irish nationalism, does not encapsulate the entire ideal, and might appear contentious, especially given the recent steps towards peace. A less contentious name might attract more users to participate, as well! Just a thought. Sláinte! gaillimh 22:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that this project change to being Wikiproject Irish Republicanism, and make sure that all people with an interest in the subject take part. There's a danger with projects like these that they become perceived as an organisation to put forward an Irish Republican point of view; because of neutral point of view that often results in someone stepping up to close the whole thing down. Sam Blacketer 23:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Probably a good idea, just IRA to limiting imo.--Vintagekits 23:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I started the project to collaborate on articles directly related to the IRA. While I'd love to see collaboration on other aspects or Irish nationalism and republicanism, I must stress that the initial objective of the project was to collaborate on articles related to the Irish Republican Army. As I mentioned when Gaillimh brought up the same thing on my own talk page:

The lines I added to the page about including broader topics such as Irish Nationalism and Irish Republicanism were much more of an afterthought. I'd love to see people working on other aspects of Irish Nationalism, but I'd really like to use this WikiProject to focus on the IRA. If the project does widen a bit, I don't quite see why the name would have to change. I wouldn't say no outright, but I really feel like WP:IRA is an excellent title! It's short, catchy, easy to remember, and it's got such a nice shortcut!

I don't quite understand the motivation for a change in name. Does it really matter that much? If some of us feel like we want to use this space to collaborate on other aspects of Irish nationalism & Irish republicanism, does that really require us to change the name of our project? Erin Go Bragh 03:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think it does require that. With a name like this it looks like we're just a bunch of fenians writing propoganda about a pile o' terrorists. Whereas if it's nationalism/republicanism it still allows us to write indepth about about all the same topics, but not looking so concenrated and biased towards the RA. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 18:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I still don't understand how devotion to an ideal seems less bias/crazy than to a group of organizations, but I'll stop blocking consensus here. It seems everyone else is in favor of changing the name, and so be it. Let us put it to consensus, for the record. Erin Go Bragh 00:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Consensus process

WikiProject Irish Republican Army

Support

1. Of course this is what I'd prefer. But if it comes to it, I won't block consensus. I'd prefer Republicanism over Nationalism. Erin Go Bragh 00:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Irish Republicanism

Support

1. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 06:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC) - From the discussion above, and the discussion on the MfD page, I'd say this option is the one most likely to gain consensus acceptance. While I am fine with the project having "IRA" in the title, I can understand the concerns that have been raised. I would be happy with this name as an alternative.
2. --Vintagekits 10:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC), I also am fine with all, however, this title gives it a more inclusive and wide scope to bring in related articles.
3. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 18:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC) Agree with vintagekits and Kathryn, already voiced my opinions on this above on page.

WikiProject Irish Nationalism

Support

Collaboration

So, assuming that some more of these expected people are coming into this Project, how about that Collaboration? WikiProject Ireland has a collaboration article for every week/month something like that. It seems like a good idea to me! If anyone else is interested, I'd like to start a similar collaborative effort for this WikiProject. I've nominated Michael Collins for collaboration on our Project Page, whatever that may mean. Erin Go Bragh 09:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Template :IRAs

I've been trying to get some input over at Template talk:IRAs, as to whether the template should be inclusive of groups such as the new ONH and the INLA, who, like CIRA and RIRA (already listed on the template), are "splinter" groups descended from other IRA organizations, and are armed Irish republican groups with quite similar goals, if they do disagree on the means to the end. Anyway, I finally got one response, and I'd appreciate it some others would give their input; two people can argue forever without coming to a conclusion, you know. Erin Go Bragh 00:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

MfD Explanation

Hi again, fellows! After some initial discussion and further thought, I feel as though a WikiProject about such a contentious subject as the IRA does not conform to WP:NPOV. Please feel free to weigh in here. Thanks gaillimh 03:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. David Lauder 18:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Volunteer (Irish republican)

There's quite a bit of an argument going on over at Talk:Volunteer (Irish republican), and I can't really make heads or tails of it. But it sure could use some attention. Erin Go Bragh 10:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Campaign - Other

Added 2 articles I wrote on the Northern Campaign 1942-45 & IRA Nazi links 1938-44 . There are also around 15+? articles detailing Abwehr spy missions to Ireland that had involvement with anti-treaty IRA or figures to a greater or lesser extent. There are also a few articles on the activities of notable IRA figures in Nazi Germany or those with linkage to IRA. Again, written from scratch just like the 2 articles already appearing in the list- on the Green Book & the S-Plan. Nobody claiming expertise on the organisation or period (1 self announced expert from Galway) had done any work on them but thats self appointed experts for you :) Might join the group to complete some more articles on IRA Nazi links, and activity of Nazi spy in Ireland. Fluffy999 13:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Martin McCaughey and Fergal O'Hanlon

Perhaps members of the project could have a look at these two articles, which I have tagged for notability, and if they agree, then nominate the articles for AfD. There obviously cannot be notability claimed for someone just because they were killed, unless mainstream sources validate notability. Tyrenius 05:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Imagine trying to delete these articles? Well there are the usual anti-republican campaigners that would like to. Please feel free to add to the article and improved it as there is a lot of information out there that could be added.--Vintagekits 19:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Fergal was working with Seán South, who's relatively famous in Irish Rebel music (The Wolfe Tones wrote a song about him, called "Sean South of Garryowen). There's a standing marble monument to the both of them. So I guess that could make him notable by association? As for McCaughey, Vintagekits listed a number of things at the AfD that make him seem notable enough to me. Erin Go Bragh 08:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, looking at the Sean South article, it seems that Dominic Behan wrote a song, The Patriot Game, about Fergal as well. So that's a song about him, another about his leader, and a monument to the both of them. Erin Go Bragh 08:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Irish language activists

Hi, a lot of people concerned with Irish republicans were/are Irish lanugage activists. If you know that a particular person is, then be sure to add the category Category:Irish-language activists to their article. Thanks. Derry Boi 20:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

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