Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
I wanted to know which religion did he followed ] (]) 09:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
I wanted to know which religion did he followed ] (]) 09:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
== Che Guevera in truth was despicable. ==
Many people still remember Ernesto “Che” Guevara as a warrior for social justice. For so many celebrities, politicians, and activists, Che Guevara is a kind of Good Samaritan who fought against oppression and tyranny. They never acknowledge his dark side.
He believed that “The individual under socialism (...) is more complete,” and that the state should educate men and women in anti-capitalist, cooperative, selfless, and non-materialistic values.
Anyone who deviated from the “new man” was seen as a ”counter-revolutionary.” Such was the case of gay men —whom Guevara referred to as a “sexual perverts.” Both Guevara and Castro considered homosexuality a bourgeois decadence.
Che Guevara also helped establish the first Cuban concentration camp in Guanahacabibes in 1960. This camp was the first of many. From the Nazis, the Cuban government also adapted from the Nazis the motto at Auschwitz “Work sets you free” changing it to “Work will make you men.” According to Álvaro Vargas Llosa, homosexuals, Jehova’s Witnesses, Afro-Cuban priests, and others who were believed to have committed a crime against revolutionary morals, were forced to work in these camps to correct their “anti-social behavior.” Many of them died; others were tortured or raped.
Guevara exposed also racist views. In his diary, he referred to black people as “those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing.” He also thought white Europeans were superior to people of African descent, and described Mexicans as “a band of illiterate Indians.” ] (]) 09:13, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
Revision as of 09:13, 14 April 2022
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Che Guevara article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Che Guevara is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article is part of WikiProject Argentina, an attempt to expand, improve and standardise the content and structure of articles related to Argentine history. If you would like to participate, you can improve Che Guevara, or sign up and contribute to a wider array of articles like those on our to do list.ArgentinaWikipedia:WikiProject ArgentinaTemplate:WikiProject ArgentinaArgentine
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cuba, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Cuba related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CubaWikipedia:WikiProject CubaTemplate:WikiProject CubaCuba
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the Caribbean on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Basque, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Basque Country, Basque people, Basque language, history and culture on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BasqueWikipedia:WikiProject BasqueTemplate:WikiProject BasqueBasque
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Atheism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of atheism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AtheismWikipedia:WikiProject AtheismTemplate:WikiProject AtheismAtheism
Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{WikiProject Atheism}} or see info box)
Ensure atheism-related articles are members of Atheism by checking whether ] has been added to atheism-related articles – and, where it hasn't, adding it.
Try to expand stubs. Ideas and theories about life, however, are prone to generating neologisms, so some stubs may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process).
State atheism needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bolivia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of all Bolivia-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BoliviaWikipedia:WikiProject BoliviaTemplate:WikiProject BoliviaBolivia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory
I am not a specialist of this topic but once saw a documentary where a man with an American accent and identifying as a person from an alphabet agency claimed he had shot Guevara. He said he made sure he'd shoot him in the back so he could claim Guevara was trying to escape. That's all I remember. Maybe he could get a bonus for shooting him, who knows. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E1F4:9FF:11B0:65F5 (talk) 05:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Use of the term "peasant army guide" to describe Eutimio Guerra
There is a tendency on anti-Guevara websites to describe Eutimio Guerra as a "peasant army guide" who was murdered by Guevara. In reality he was a pro-Castrist guerrilla, acting mainly as a guide, who was executed after working with the government forces, which the guerrillas classified as treason. The episode is known principally from Guevara's diaries here where he is described as acting as a guide for the rebels, and is mentioned in Luther's Critical Lives, which states his role with the rebels was mainly as a guide. I have amended the text to show this. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Che was a racist homophobic mass murderer
Why are the concentration camps he created for gay and disabled people left out of this article?
Why is there no mention of his anti-black or anti-native racist rhetoric and policies? This article looks like it was written by some 19 year old hipster. WTF! (unsigned by IP)
The "concentration camps he created for gay and disabled people" didn't exist. There was some persecution of gay people by the Cuban government in the late 1960's, but Guevara was already outside of the country when this had started, so it can't reasonably be put in the article. It's worth remembering, this was at a time when the British government was still arresting people for homosexual activity.
Guevara's only anti-black statements on record are those he made as very young man when travelling through South America. For an Argentine man born in the 20's, he was about as anti-racist as it's possible to be. See here for an analysis. There is no record of any anti-black policies by Guevara, so no mention of this appears in the article.
As for mass murderer, yes, he killed deserters and traitors in cold blood. That is in the article. After the war he was responsible for executing members of the Batista forces who had committed atrocities. That's in the article. We could ask what the US and UK governments did to deserters and traitors during WWII? The answer is that they executed them. The trials of Batista's soldiers and secret police were explicitly modelled on the Nuremberg trials.
It's ok to disagree with Guevara without automatically believing everything negative that is written about him, this article is solidly based on the most reliable sources on Guevara written by respectable historians. If anything it leans a leans a little anti, as a lot of the academic scholarship in English has something of a right-wing bias, but wikipedia's job is to reflect the available scholarship. Boynamedsue (talk) 05:42, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Misleading
You have him sounding like he was a good revolutionist. He was for Marxism and Socialism. He led Cubans into a communist country. He's not a person to be idolized unless you hate freedom, liberties and the glory of independent thought. 24.198.64.141 (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
The article is well sourced. If you have other well sourced material you feel could be usefully added to the article, feel free to do so. HiLo48 (talk) 22:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
He/she wants an evaluation which is not the purpose of the exercise here. The rather restrictive version of Marxism/Leninism and Socialism of the historic phase before 1989 created some hatred in people. But today is another phase in history. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E1F4:9FF:11B0:65F5 (talk) 05:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Many people still remember Ernesto “Che” Guevara as a warrior for social justice. For so many celebrities, politicians, and activists, Che Guevara is a kind of Good Samaritan who fought against oppression and tyranny. They never acknowledge his dark side.
He believed that “The individual under socialism (...) is more complete,” and that the state should educate men and women in anti-capitalist, cooperative, selfless, and non-materialistic values.
Anyone who deviated from the “new man” was seen as a ”counter-revolutionary.” Such was the case of gay men —whom Guevara referred to as a “sexual perverts.” Both Guevara and Castro considered homosexuality a bourgeois decadence.
Che Guevara also helped establish the first Cuban concentration camp in Guanahacabibes in 1960. This camp was the first of many. From the Nazis, the Cuban government also adapted from the Nazis the motto at Auschwitz “Work sets you free” changing it to “Work will make you men.” According to Álvaro Vargas Llosa, homosexuals, Jehova’s Witnesses, Afro-Cuban priests, and others who were believed to have committed a crime against revolutionary morals, were forced to work in these camps to correct their “anti-social behavior.” Many of them died; others were tortured or raped.
Guevara exposed also racist views. In his diary, he referred to black people as “those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing.” He also thought white Europeans were superior to people of African descent, and described Mexicans as “a band of illiterate Indians.” 2600:1014:B1AA:E66C:D9F2:B4CA:F46D:955B (talk) 09:13, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
.svg){kind=small}
