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| ==Old discussions== | |||
| Please note that the Ponary massacre has been discusseed previously at ], until it was split into it's separate article.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Masacre?== | ==Masacre?== | ||
| I'm not a native speaker, so I may be wrong, but I understand a massacre as something what happened once, during a short period of time, eg. Kaunas massacre, Jedwabne massacre. Killings during years aren't in my opinion a massacre. See also ], which confirms my position. ] 14:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC) | I'm not a native speaker, so I may be wrong, but I understand a massacre as something what happened once, during a short period of time, eg. Kaunas massacre, Jedwabne massacre. Killings during years aren't in my opinion a massacre. See also ], which confirms my position. ] 14:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :When I was looking at the various literature, massacre was the most common term. I am open to hearing arguments about different name, of course.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Gdańsk court will decide == | == Gdańsk court will decide == | ||
| According to the last issue of ''Gazeta Polska'' IPN Gdańsk doesn't prossecute Lithuanian executioners of Ponary. A local law court will decide. Families of the victims protest. ] 15:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC) | According to the last issue of ''Gazeta Polska'' IPN Gdańsk doesn't prossecute Lithuanian executioners of Ponary. A local law court will decide. Families of the victims protest. ] 15:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :Would you have any bibliogrpahical information (date, name of the article) or even better an external link to that article?--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Not balanced== | ==Not balanced== | ||
| Article one sided interpret numbers of victims, Genocide and Resistance Research Centre and Bubnys notes that 100 000 victims is exaggerated , . Mostly killed Jews, and as noted in provided sources Polish victims were hundreds not thousands, such inaccuracy happed “thanks” to “works” to contributors like Helena Pasierbska, while article itself do not make any disclaimer on her, while Lithuanian and Polish scholars identified her, lets say – one sided. Another one article - not mentioned Belorussians, who there also killed here, small number but still. About Ypatingasis burys, it participated in killings at the beginning of 1941 later its actives was limited and nonexistent like in 1944, nothing is motioned about killers later fates etc. Generally article is not NOPV, this way it is tagged. ] 10:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | Article one sided interpret numbers of victims, Genocide and Resistance Research Centre and Bubnys notes that 100 000 victims is exaggerated , . Mostly killed Jews, and as noted in provided sources Polish victims were hundreds not thousands, such inaccuracy happed “thanks” to “works” to contributors like Helena Pasierbska, while article itself do not make any disclaimer on her, while Lithuanian and Polish scholars identified her, lets say – one sided. Another one article - not mentioned Belorussians, who there also killed here, small number but still. About Ypatingasis burys, it participated in killings at the beginning of 1941 later its actives was limited and nonexistent like in 1944, nothing is motioned about killers later fates etc. Generally article is not NOPV, this way it is tagged. ] 10:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :Which provided sources give 'hundreds' instead of 'thousands' Poles? All sources I found claim that the number of Polish victims was at least 15000 and usually agree on 20000 estimate. As for 100 000 exaggerated, the common brackets are 80 000 - 100 000, as some sources (but not all) note that the number of Jews killed may vary from 50 000 to 70 000. Please provide sources for your arguments, and read up on ]. The article is not POVed - you have failed to even state what particular POV is it that is supposed to be 'pushed' here.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 17:20, 17 February 2007
Old discussions
Please note that the Ponary massacre has been discusseed previously at Talk:Paneriai, until it was split into it's separate article.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Masacre?
I'm not a native speaker, so I may be wrong, but I understand a massacre as something what happened once, during a short period of time, eg. Kaunas massacre, Jedwabne massacre. Killings during years aren't in my opinion a massacre. See also Massacre, which confirms my position. Xx236 14:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- When I was looking at the various literature, massacre was the most common term. I am open to hearing arguments about different name, of course.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Gdańsk court will decide
According to the last issue of Gazeta Polska IPN Gdańsk doesn't prossecute Lithuanian executioners of Ponary. A local law court will decide. Families of the victims protest. Xx236 15:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- Would you have any bibliogrpahical information (date, name of the article) or even better an external link to that article?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Not balanced
Article one sided interpret numbers of victims, Genocide and Resistance Research Centre and Bubnys notes that 100 000 victims is exaggerated , . Mostly killed Jews, and as noted in provided sources Polish victims were hundreds not thousands, such inaccuracy happed “thanks” to “works” to contributors like Helena Pasierbska, while article itself do not make any disclaimer on her, while Lithuanian and Polish scholars identified her, lets say – one sided. Another one article - not mentioned Belorussians, who there also killed here, small number but still. About Ypatingasis burys, it participated in killings at the beginning of 1941 later its actives was limited and nonexistent like in 1944, nothing is motioned about killers later fates etc. Generally article is not NOPV, this way it is tagged. M.K. 10:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
- Which provided sources give 'hundreds' instead of 'thousands' Poles? All sources I found claim that the number of Polish victims was at least 15000 and usually agree on 20000 estimate. As for 100 000 exaggerated, the common brackets are 80 000 - 100 000, as some sources (but not all) note that the number of Jews killed may vary from 50 000 to 70 000. Please provide sources for your arguments, and read up on WP:NPOV. The article is not POVed - you have failed to even state what particular POV is it that is supposed to be 'pushed' here.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)