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June 6

Biasedly Reverted Post

Somebody reverted my edited changes biasedly and with hatred to my country. How can I restore my changes?--Vaidya Pranit Ambulkar (talk) 10:02, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Vaidya Pranit Ambulkar I don't see where someone expressed hatred of your country or used that as a reason for their edits. Someone gave a civil explanation of their edit. Now, you must discuss your concerns on the article talk page to arrive at a consensus. 331dot (talk) 10:21, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

You have chosen to edit in a contentious area with a history of disruption, that has special rules. I will notify you of these on your user talk page. 331dot (talk) 10:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Romy Schneider. CORRECT HER PROFILE PLEASE

Not sure how to fix this in her profile but whoever wrote that she is GERMAN (??) French clearly has made a mistake. Romy was Austrian. She lived in France. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.63.183.168 (talk) 11:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Best place to discuss such issues is usually the article talk page. In this case it's unlikely that would change something though: Romy Schneider's mother was German and her father took the German citizenship in 1937. Later on Romy Schneider also took the French citizenship. There's more details on that also at dewiki. – NJD-DE (talk) 11:27, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Also, Romy Schneider is not her profile ("profile" is a social media term, and we're not social media), but an encyclopedi article about her. See also: WP:OWN. Victor Schmidt (talk) 14:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

A total lie corrected with evidence

Hi, I submitted credible data to support a correction to a politicians page. The bot keeps removing it. It seems Misplaced Pages is a forum that protects and advances liars — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeclandecoDoyle (talk • contribs) 11:50, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I've blocked you until you can show us that you can edit and make suggestions for articles without calling everybody a liar. That is a fundamental requirement. If you can make suggestions for corrections in something other than a shrill tone of denunciation, we may consider your request. Note that any controversial allegations must be ironclad in multiple reliable sources. Acroterion (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

CSD G3

I've nominated two pages at MfD, and both got deleted per WP:G3. I'm not sure what constitutes 'pure vandalism.' Misplaced Pages:Field_guide_to_proper_speedy_deletion#3._Pure_vandalism_or_blatant_hoaxes says:

This is usually clear cut. Articles that simply have a photo of a penis transcluded on it, a page consisting entirely of "I LIKE POTATOES", and the like – that's "pure vandalism."

So 'pure vandalism' means stuff that would be reverted as vandalism if it were added to a page? I.hate.spam.mail.here (message me | my contributions) 17:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot to update my signature. weeklyd3 (message me | my contributions) 17:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

It really depends on the admin, to be honest. PRAXIDICAE💕 17:55, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Previews of links in articles

I used to get a paragraph or so of text when I hovered my mouse over a link in an article. For some reason that feature stopped working. How do I get it back? Thanks! --157.131.253.236 (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

AFAIK this has never been available to IP editors - for registered users, it is turned on in "My preferences" / "Gadgets" / "Navigation popups" - Arjayay (talk) 20:56, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Do you have an account? Perhaps you used to be logged in and now you are not. I know that, for logged in users, there is an option in Preferences to turn that on and off. ~ ONUnicornproblem solving 20:57, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

No, I have never had an account (though I donate $ regularly to Misplaced Pages). This feature was the default, but now it is gone, and I miss it. Nothing else I can do besides set up an account? Thanks. 157.131.253.236 (talk) 21:47, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello fellow IP - I too enjoy using that feature. It still seems to be working for me. Maybe it stopped working for you due to a browser software update; you could try asking at WP:VPT. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

If the feature is disabled then click "Edit preview settings" at the bottom right of a page. Arjayay is referring to a different feature for registered users. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:01, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

June 7

Request for improvement of categories

I had added an article named Mothparja and improved and expanded it a lot. But still it's categories are as unknown important articles and unassessed important articles . So I think they should changed and also it's class,If and only article is able to. And may you please also review this article to find it's mistakes and to correct them. I will be thankful to you if you help me to improve it a bit.Thanks.FAAHS (talk) 03:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Asked and answered at Teahouse. David notMD (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

ANI report archived without action

Hello, I posted a report about a new user at ANI on 2nd June and it got archived today. I believe there is a consensus to take admin action against this user. The thread is at Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1100#Legal threats, COI and disruption by Konguhead. Where should I go from here? Thanks. - SUN EYE 1 06:23, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Suneye1: As far as I can tell the user was blocked for 1 day, subsequently increased to a week. If you still have concerns, I believe you would have to start a new thread at ANI but you can link to the original thread when posting. ANI have acted on the information you provided so may consider the matter dealt with. If they return from the block and continue in the same vein then further action would IMO, be warranted. Eagleash (talk) 10:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Eagleash: I think you misread it, other editors recommended for a block but the user was not blocked; see block log. - SUN EYE 1 11:14, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Suneye1: Yes, I think you are right, I thought the user had actually been blocked. Same applies as above, I believe you would need to start another ANI thread if the behaviour has continued in the meantime. If there have been no other offending edits, let it be for now; ANI can be tricky and not always produce the desired result. Eagleash (talk) 13:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Sir how can I register for playing list

Sir how can I register for playing list — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4070:4384:17D2:78BF:542D:90EA:5562 (talk) 07:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

You'll have to tell us what you mean and how it relates to Misplaced Pages. 331dot (talk) 07:23, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Smart solution to group articles related to Fantasy on Ice

Hi everyone! Fantasy on Ice is the first article I created myself in the English Misplaced Pages mainspace and I wanted to ask how to group and link articles to this page in a smart way. This ice show is mostly known in Japan, but it gained international media attention this year with reports by the Olympic Channel amongst others. My three ideas to group related articles to this page are the following:

1. create a navigation template at the bottom of the page, listing the main cast members and guest artists. This would have the advantage that the template can be included on the skaters' and artists' pages as well and attract more readers from different fields. Especially the bios pages of less known artists outside Japan would profit from that, I think. On the other hand, other ice show articles like Stars on Ice don't have a navbox either, so I don't know if it's appropriate/necessary to use one here.
2. add a sentence or short paragraph about the show in the prose part of related bios pages. I have done that for some main cast members already, but it might be unfitting/irrelevant for certain artists.
3. create categories for the cast members (main cast at least) and guest artists. This solution is my personal favorite, but before I start with the linking process, I'd like to hear other opinions as well.

Thank you very much in advance Henni147 (talk) 09:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Each of those have their pros and cons, and I don't see why you couldn't do all three. ~ ONUnicornproblem solving 17:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the reply! I will do all three then and try to figure out an efficient solution Henni147 (talk) 06:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Question on submitting my draft

Hi,

Just had a question as I feel like i'm stuck. I'm trying to create an article on my band Drunken Starfighter. I currently have it as a draft and am a little confused on how I am able to get it submitted to be a live article. I think I already submitted it but not sure. How long does it take? is there anything I still need to do? Any help is much appreciated. Jtimmons01 (talk)Jerad Timmons — Preceding undated comment added 18:12, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry to tell you @Jtimmons01, but we need reliable sources to verify facts about your band. This means that it has to be notable, which means having coverage in multiple reliable sources. And also, because it is your band, you have a conflict of interest. Making articles about your own band is hard to get right (see this essay about notability (it's humorous, it's not meant to be taken seriously)), but if you still want to submit it, add {{subst:submit}} to the top of it. Hope this helps. weeklyd3 (message me | my contributions) 18:15, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy link Draft:Drunken Starfighter. Since the draft has zero references, there is no chance it would be accepted as an article in its current state. CodeTalker (talk) 18:22, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Jtimmons01. It sounds as if you have the (very common) misconception that Misplaced Pages is a place to tell the world about your endeavours: it is not. In the first place, promotion of any kind is forbidden anywhere on Misplaced Pages. Secondly, if at some time Misplaced Pages does have an article about your band, the article will not belong to you, will not be controlled by you, will not be for your benefit except incidentally, should be based almost entirely on what people unconnected with you have published about you (good or bad), not on what you or your associates say or want to say, and may end up containing material you do not want it to contain. Please see an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. ColinFine (talk) 22:42, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Notability

A friend wants to write a Wiki article about me. Before he spends time, I want to determine if I qualify for Wiki notability. Here's what I can tell you,

- I've been interviewed or highlighted in numerous major publications: Forbes, Bloomberg, Popular Science, TechCruch, Radio Canada, etc..
- I was invited to give a main stage TED Talk (@ TED2009 Conference) on one of my inventions. Talk translated into 32 languages. Scientific American called it one of "10 World Changing Ideas".
- I was a founding member (employee #3) in what became the world's 2nd largest PC company. My division grew to 1/3 of company revenue.
- My current company (I founded it) was just inducted into the Technology Hall of Fame, reported in Forbes et al. Company also has over 30 top industry awards.
- I am a frequent invited guest lecturer of technology at many of the world's top universities: Stanford, MIT, Johns Hopkins, Carnagie Mellon, NYU, etc..
- I Executive Produced a doc film which took multiple top festival awards, music by Sigur Ros (streams on Amazon and Netflix).

Does this qualify?
Thanks.
2603:3006:E01:500:21DC:71B9:8A69:55BD (talk) 18:57, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

It's hard to say unless you name the person involved. As a general rule though, you, your friends or employees should not create articles about yourself. If you are notable enough, independent people will do it. Once created, you will never have full control over the article, because it is not a Facebook profile or similar. See WP:FIRST for more advice.--♦IanMacM♦ 19:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Before proceeding, you may also want to read the essay on why an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Interviews do not contribute to notability, and neither do speaking engagements. Your involvement in companies in itself does not contribute to notability. What counts is significant coverage of you as a person in reliable sources that are entirely independent of you and your companies. The Scientific American coverage sounds promising but it depends on how significant the coverage is. Cullen328 (talk) 20:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. That's helpful. So, is it more about notable life achievements, or about general popularity? One could have a long list of notable achievements not generally covered in national press, and yet remain generally unknown. For instance, my TED Talk has been viewed over 1M times, and millions of people use computers by a company I helped start, and thousands of people have read about me and my inventions in major media .... but why would any of those people feel compelled to write a Wiki page about me? Does that make my lifetime of invention and achievement less notable? Compare this (for example) to a musician who had a song that reached #67 on Billboard, but who's brief career then faded into obscurity. That person's song inspired a fan to write a Wiki page. Great. But is that truly Misplaced Pages's definition of notoriety? How does Misplaced Pages justify this clear dilemma between "being known for writing a song" and decades of sustained, notable life achievements covered in multiple international media? One more thought ... just about every person who's ever given a TED Talk has a personal Misplaced Pages page. (e.g., being selected to give a Main Stage TED Talk is, I would suggest, like having a song high on the Billboard charts). As I reviewed 25-30 of these TEDTalkers' personal pages picked at random, easily over 90% of these persons do not seem "generally popular" enough to compel a random stranger to write up their Misplaced Pages pages (exceptions would include global celebrities like Julian Assange and JJ Abrams). For instance, let's take the very first entry, Trevor Aaronson, a writer. I see no "significant coverage of him as a person in reliable sources that are entirely independent of him and his companies." I see two awards, and one fellowship. Your thoughts? 2600:1700:61E1:1EB0:24D0:FA16:BE48:B952 (talk) 03:10, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

As people have said above, this really depends. If you want to do some reading here you can read up on Misplaced Pages's notability guidelines. There's a lot in there so you'd probably want to focus on notability guidelines for people. Usually people in business fall under general notability guidelines which is what was described above. There are people who will write an article about you (presuming you meet notability guidelines) who do this for a job. They'd have to disclose that they were paid editors and this can sometimes have a "vanity press" feel to it, but it is possible. And as to your question, awards and fellowships (which often result in coverage in reliable sources) can sometimes be part of meeting general notability guidelines. Definitely true for the larger awards and fellowships. Misplaced Pages's a giant boat that is tough to steer, but it's usually worth the effort to spend time understanding how the giant website works and what it's expecting if your end goal is to have an article about your accomplishments. It's a nearly-all-volunteer site which can explain the odd and oftentimes uneven coverage. Jessamyn (my talk page) 03:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages operates in accordance with policies and guidelines. We do not make things up on the fly for cases that have occurred millions of times. And this is the short form version of the guideline for what type of people are eligible for a biography in this encyclopedia: A person is presumed to be notable if they have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. There is a lot of debate about the details, but there is broad agreement among experienced editors that this is the basic standard that must be met for a biography. Cullen328 (talk) 03:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

As for the quality of the article Trevor Aaronson, please be aware that English Misplaced Pages has over 6.5 million articles and well over a million of them have serious problems. Perhaps several million. Volunteers work constantly to either improve or delete these articles. We do not accept from any specific person the argument that because this encyclopedia has some substandard articles, it ought to accept a new substandard article about that specific person. This is 2022 and we enforce standards today that were not really enforced when this encyclopedia was in an explosive growth phase, peaking in 2006-2007. That was 15 years ago and this encyclopedia is only 22 years old. We are in a constant state of self-improvement. As for a hypothetical musical performer who had one Billboard hit and then faded away, we have an article One-hit wonder about that phenomenon. Many books have been written about this, which often describe various artists in detail. Significant coverage in the music and popular press will often be published on the 10th, 25th and 50th anniversaries of such hit songs. These artists may tour to lower level music venues for decades, gathering reviews of their performances in reliable independent sources. If you actually name some such specific person, then experienced editors here can offer opinions about that specific case. We prefer specific cases here instead of hypotheticals. So, instead of more hypotheticals that cannot be actually evaluated, bring forward links to significant coverage of you in independent, reliable sources. Then we will have the basis for an informed discussion. Cullen328 (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

As an extreme example, there was a minor controversy when Donna Strickland got a Nobel prize, because she did not have a Misplaced Pages article, even though she was obviously an accomplished scientist by that point. (The oversimplified extreme views on the matter are "Misplaced Pages is a sexist bureaucracy" and "draft reviewers are overworked and cannot check everything fully". I personally believe Misplaced Pages is an equal-opportunity bureaucracy, but that there is a negative correlation between wanting to write about women and wanting to fight the bureaucracy, and that the sources of the anti-correlation are found mostly though not entirely outside Misplaced Pages.)

That example shows that you could have outstanding accomplishments, but if the available sources are niche / hard to find / etc., getting an article accepted still has an element of randomness. It still isn’t totally random, so if you or your friend could actually list some sources, we can review them before you or your friend commits to the arduous task of actually writing a draft. Tigraan 14:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Popularity is not the right measure. As others have said, the important thing is whether other sources (such as newspapers, magazines, etc.) have published articles about the person. That coverage often happens when a person becomes popular, but it's the secondary coverage that counts. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 10:34, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

can i edit wikipedia?

can i edit wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7C94:1900:C44D:7DB7:BA9F:5532 (talk) 20:44, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, you can, provided you edit in accordance with Misplaced Pages's principles. Your two edits to Platinum Jubilee of Elizabeth II today were not: in the first edit you added unsourced personal opinion, and in the second, you inexplicably deleted several paragraphs. I suggest you look at Help:Introduction, and consider taking the Misplaced Pages Adventure. ColinFine (talk) 22:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

June 8

changing information

I have noticed that someone keeps changing the death date of my friend who died on May 23, 2022 to May 22nd. It is one of the things about Misplaced Pages that is not helpful and that is anyone can change any information making it incorrect. This goes on all the time I am told. I can furnish the death certificate. Why would someone continue to make these changes and add information that is incorrect. How to stop this from happening? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rivercook (talk • contribs) 01:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Rivercook The issue is that the source provided in the article, according to the other editors there, supports the date that was originally there. If that source is incorrect, you will need to contact it to have them issue a correction, or you can offer your own independent reliable source to support what you say; I would suggest discussing this on the article talk page(Talk:Peter Lamborn Wilson). 331dot (talk) 01:15, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's necessarily needful to globally block me

Per community consensus, a unfriendly feeling towards me because I have upset them or harmed them. I'm not sure it's necessarily needful to globally block me. For example, the admin says that I threatened legal action against other users on the Chinese Misplaced Pages, and often harass them when they edit the page on Wikimedia Commons, specially for Taiwanese users. If someone has made it clear that they don't want me return to and continue to contribute on any Misplaced Pages project, please admin consider whether to globally block me for editing.--Kai3952 (talk) 05:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

When I put a lot of time into trying to make the Wikimedia Commons better than before, I never take into account the user's feelings. I apologize for contributing in the wrong way.--Kai3952 (talk) 05:34, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

If you were globally blocked, you wouldn't be able to edit here on English Misplaced Pages using this account. Each Wikimedia project is separate from the other in that they all have their own policies and guidelines as well as their own communities of users. Some things may overlap across different projects, but generally you will need to resolve whatever problems you're having on a particular project at that project. So, if you're account was blocked on Commons or Chinese Misplaced Pages, you will need to resolve things at Commons or Chinese Misplaced Pages. If you want to apologize or make an unblock request, you should do that at Commons or Chinese Misplaced Pages. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:17, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Archiving

While archiving Talk:Dentistry, I noticed the archive page was not there. I tried undoing my deletion from the talk page, but I wasn't able to because it contained a Breitbart website. How do I solve this? Nythar (talk) 09:53, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello Nythar. I undid your archiving, which I was able to achieve by first editing out the breitbart link. I can only assume that this particular edit filter wasn't in place when that link was first added to the Talk Page. Anyway, all the rest is now back where it was and is ready to be archived: provided you are confident you can do so correctly! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull: Thank you! Nythar (talk) 13:35, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Co-ordinating with a photo being submitted via VRT

Jeff G. mentioned me on Commons:Help desk in "photo".

I am arranging for a request permission via VRT. Jeff G. also suggested that I see "COM:SIGN. I do not understand this. I want to clarify fully how to co-ordinate with the sending of photo by VRT from another party.Baile Atha Cliathach (talk) 10:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Baile Atha Cliathach You seem to have fallen foul of Misplaced Pages jargon, which I'll try to explain. The easy bit is "COM:SIGN" which was just Jeff G's way of reminding you that you should sign (and date) all your contributions to Talk Pages: the easy way to do that is by using four ~ characters (or the equivalent clickable item that inserts these characters in the source editor and the visual editor). As to the question of uploading that picture which was taken by your relative, you can do this yourself by using the Commons upload wizard located at this URL, assuming you have the original .jpg or a scan of the printed copy in .jpg format BUT, because you are not the copyright holder (your relative who took the photo is) you must simultaneously get him or her to contact the Volunteer Response Team (VRT) by email to confirm that they are happy to release the copyright under a suitable license. The full instructions for doing that are at the link Commons:Volunteer_Response_Team. Roughly speaking, you will have a week from the file's upload to complete the licensing part or the file will be automatically deleted from Commons. This sounds more daunting than it is in reality: I've done the process for a number of images taken by other people. Contact me on my Talk Page if you need additional help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Your comment was extremely helpful. Many thanks.

I'll get started by uploading the photo and will,as you sugggest, simultaneously arrange for confirmation of release to be forwarded to VRT.

I may, indeed, take up your offer to contact you again if I encounter any snags. Baile Atha Cliathach 8th June, 2022. Baile Atha Cliathach (talk) 13:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello Mike, I haven't yet managed to upload the photo. The photo is described as IMG_9312.

Can you advise me as to next step. Also how many descriptions do I need to have for the photo? Thanks.

Baile Atha Cliathach Baile Atha Cliathach (talk) 04:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft: Yasin Hacıoğlu

Hello, I do not receive any payment related to this content and regulations. I have been following the person in Turkey and Ghana for a long time. Unfortunately, he does not have a wiki page in Turkey and I wanted to create it in English. You can help by making the necessary arrangements. Please do not delete the page.--Dartmikes (talk) 11:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Dartmikes: The draft has not been nominated for deletion, as far as I can see; it has merely been declined, which means that it is not yet ready for inclusion in the encyclopedia. Please continue to develop the item in draftspace and re-submit when it has been sufficiently improved. Eagleash (talk) 12:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I would be very happy if you could help me with this. If you publish the page, Wikipedians will also edit it. Please help me. Dartmikes (talk) 12:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Dartmikes: You will need to find sources that show this person to be "notable" yourself. "Notable" means "has been the subject of in-depth coverage in multiple independent reliable sources". For a contemporary business person, 99% of the time that means newspaper articles. Note that interviews, press releases etc. such as your first three sources do not count (those are not independent). Sources can be in Türkish, but they need to be in a reputable newspaper.

It is very unlikely that anyone will help you find those sources. Misplaced Pages:Requested articles is full of article ideas, but finding sources for notability is the hardest part of the job. Even if I wanted to, I cannot read Türkish, and do not know which newspapers are reliable in topics related to Turkey or to mining.

Notice also that the draft is currently full of promotional language ("by showing great awareness", "made a name for themselves", "many valuable awards", "his accurate comments on the economy programs").

(Note to other editors: there is also some discussion at User_talk:Dartmikes.) Tigraan 12:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

About your style

Thanks for emphasizing a good style. This is feedback about your style. I've noticed that you missed explaining basic terms for beginners in this JavaScript 1st example. Is it laziness? A beginner should have a good beginning. All terms of the first example should be explained.

"(You may want to = too many words) get our Module template": Is the module alias for a program or what? (too few words)

"which adds the Wikify maintenance template to articles": What articles? Only this one or all articles? Does it add text for one person or all?

"To begin, change MODULE_NAME in the module template… Your template should look like this: // Qwikify…": I suppose // means comment, not the name of a module or module template. But also this is presented strangely for a beginner.

"$(document).ready(function(){": You didn't explain what $() function is and if "document" is a variable or not. Many beginners see $ as a string symbol before compilation. (Etc.)

This all would have been very easy, but after your explanations, it's very difficult. And perhaps you say that this is again in the wrong place. Is this your style in every similar feedback: "Put this feedback to that page's Talk page where almost no one reads it"? Waiting for your good-style comment. Yours 2001:2003:F645:3D00:C56B:961E:166E:2B42 (talk) 12:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

If you have a suggestion for improving a page, please make the suggestion in its talk page. If you've already done this but got no response, please name the talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 12:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes: a suggestion for a good style. And it is very easy to explain in good style, but perhaps not in some circles and chambers where they use a style that almost no one understands. Was this too difficult to understand or have I to explain good style also there? Go to that chamber young man because we, in general, don't have style problems, even in talk pages or tea houses. So can you improve yourselves in style matters only if questions are directed to some strange, distant chamber? Yours 2001:2003:F645:3D00:C56B:961E:166E:2B42 (talk) 12:46, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) For your first two comments:

1. The words "module template" are wikilinked to Misplaced Pages:User_scripts/Module_template, a program skeleton
2. Only one article, obviously. Surely you don’t think that there is a user-friendly module for adding a template to all six millions and counting Misplaced Pages articles?

For the other two, Misplaced Pages:User scripts/Guide is a page for beginners in scripting within Misplaced Pages, not for coding beginners. As the first section ("Prerequisites") says, to write user scripts, you'll have to learn at least some of the programming language that they are written in: JavaScript.. It does not say so, but it obviously is also a page for people with some familiarity with Misplaced Pages - you don’t want to write automated tools to write stuff on Misplaced Pages if you don’t know how to write stuff on Misplaced Pages by hand.

If you have clear ideas (in a "change X to Y" format) for improving the documentation, feel free to edit the page. Otherwise, yes, you should place it on the talk page. "Almost none will read it", I suppose, but the latest thread on Wikipedia_talk:User_scripts/Guide was started in April 2022 and received an answer within one hour, the one before that in Septembre 2021 and ditto, so at least in that case page watchers seem to be reactive. Tigraan 12:41, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm also a programmer. 2001:2003:F645:3D00:C56B:961E:166E:2B42 (talk) 12:50, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

To Tigraan, remember style: point 2: not obviously, one may visit in 10,000 articles and bot in even more. 2001:2003:F645:3D00:C56B:961E:166E:2B42 (talk) 13:07, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Uploading to Misplaced Pages

How can I upload a profile to Misplaced Pages — Preceding unsigned comment added by Horseman42 (talk • contribs) 12:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages doesn't have 'profiles'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:31, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

If the "profile" is a reliably referenced draft on a subject that's notable according to Misplaced Pages's notability criteria, then copy it and paste it to User:Horseman42/sandbox and hit "Publish" (which will save it). But first please read and digest Help:YFA, because most items that can be called "profiles" are utterly unsuitable for Misplaced Pages and have no chance of acceptance. -- Hoary (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Reusing citations w/different page numbers

I'm a bit confused as to what the best way would be to do this. I expanded the vice-presidential section of 1844 Whig National Convention substantially with reference to Havel's guide to candidates, but each person is listed dozens of pages apart. I initially was going to just say "Havel, 1996, p. XXX" for each subsequent mention of the book, but there are two volumes cited in the article. How can I format the references so that they're more concise, while still distinguishing between the two volumes and not reusing Template:cite book? ThadeusOfNazereth(he/they) 16:35, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@ThadeusOfNazereth: I use {{rp}}, which actually allows any text, not just page numbers. Also. -Arch dude (talk) 17:00, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip! That works perfectly and I made a note in my sandbox so I don't forget, as I'll be using that book quite a bit. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/they) 17:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

IMDB

I have some references from IMDB, however, to replace those I went to the actual site of the shows and cannot find a casting list for a particular episode. Is it better to not list a reference for those particular cases? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor500 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

The IMDb is user generated, so it shouldn't be used as a source on Misplaced Pages. WikiProjects sometimes list usable sources, and some of them are active enough that you can get help reasonably quickly on the project's talk page. Entertainment trade magazines are often a good place to check for credits. If you don't know where to look, maybe try Category:Entertainment trade magazines. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:33, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Incomplete Semi-Protected Article

Hello,

I noticed the "List of School Shootings in the United States" article https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States is incomplete. I cannot edit it myself because it is (understandably) semi-protected. July 17, 2000 there was a school shooting in Washington State. no deaths or injuries but a school shooting. Here are a few articles about it. I noticed there were other school shootings listed where a gun was fired in school and luckily nobody was injured or killed. Seemed like a correction that should be made, then. http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/07/17/middle.school.shooting.02/index.html https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/2000/10-19/0036_cafeteria__teen_pleads_guilty_to_.html

I'm sure you can find more about it if you need better sources. I really don't know what I would need and I'm really kind of clueless about editing Misplaced Pages. I'm not proud.

I hope this reaches someone that can help make that change.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.89.109.130 (talk) 19:49, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

You may want to direct your comment to Talk:List of school shootings in the United States where the editors that follow that article will see it. 331dot (talk) 21:05, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Romania 1922 football kit

It was revealed that at the 1922 King Alexander's Cup, the national team of Romania wore a jersey with black and white stripes, this is the source: I would like to change Romania's football kit image from the article 1922 King Alexander's Cup in those colors. The image that I could find on wikipedia of football kits looking like the one Romania played in 1922 is the one down below. But there is a problem with the collar, in the image down below it is black and it needs to be white. I searched football kits on wikipedia and did not found any to have the collar white, can somebody help?

References

1. "100 de ani de la primul meci al naţionalei României! Cum s-a implicat Regina Maria în naşterea selecţionatei. Povestea echipamentului inedit al tricolorilor. Foto" (in Romanian). Fanatik.ro. 8 June 2022. Retrieved 8 June 2022.

User:Sebi1990TheSecond (talk) 8 June 2022

@Sebi1990TheSecond:That is a very specialized request. If you go to Template talk:Football kit/pattern list, you may be able to find folks who can help you. Failing that, you will need to learn how to create a new body pattern by downloading File:Kit_body_fkpartizan66h.png, editing it on your computer using the appropriate software, and uploading your new pattern to a new appropriate file name. -Arch dude (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

June 9

Series of Native American classes

Any ideas what the connection might be between these AfC submissions or how to identify the class? Stumbled on them in AfC but it's late and I'm headed offline. Hoping someone else can help connect the pieces. They're reasonably well written but not standalone articles. Star Mississippi 02:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• User:Franklde/sandbox
• User:MorganOlyvia/sandbox
• User:MateoKO/sandbox Star Mississippi 02:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi: The Wiki Ed dashboard lists a course in Native American History at the University of California, Irvine. Could be that, though I have no idea how one would go about confirming it. Deor (talk) 13:46, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that lead @Deor. Wondering if @Ian (Wiki Ed) can lend any insight. Star Mississippi 14:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi It looks like they are students - they registered with the Dashboard, but never joined any class. (If they join a class, the Dashboard creates a userpage and talk page automatically.) I tracked down a likely class and emailed one of their instructors, so hopefully we'll known more soon. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:58, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @Ian (Wiki Ed)! Is there an easy how to on this? I don't work much with classes so never quite sure how to connect the dots. Star Mississippi 15:10, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Running for public office

I am running for public office. I add my name to the page '2025 New Jersey gubernatorial election' and it was removed for lack of citation needed. I am running as an independent. It seems it is too early to even file my intentions. I announced over two different medias today of my intentions. If I place the links to the announcements into the citations, will this be a good enough citation to keep my name from being removed? Every day these other candidates' names are out there without mine is hurting my chances. Please help JerryCed (talk) 02:50, 9 June 2022 (UTC)JerryCed

That is not a source that you have announced that you are running. It says nothing about the election or who is running. It simply says that a broadcast outlet must give all candidates the same opportunity to use the station if they give it to any of the candidates. Meters (talk) 03:10, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Also, you've sent me an email asking whether a "public announcement of my intention to run for office on YouTube and Instagram" that "have views already" are good enough as sources. Unfortunately, candidacies usually need news coverage or candidate filings to be added, please see WP:COIPOLITICAL and WP:SPS. Also, considering the election is still more than three years away, let's stick to what can be verifiable in independent sources. —twotwofourtysix 03:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

User is now indef blocked.--Shantavira| 08:32, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Why is a source that’s blocked by a paywall considered a valid source?

I understand the notion “you get what you pay for,” but not when it comes to citing sources on the internet… at least in the terms of an “information freedom” type country such as North America. I mean this in a way that the way our Country(ies) utilize information as a weapon or a tool (whether or not it’s correct), it’s deemed a foundation of our “freedom”.

So when needing to verify a source, and it having a paywall… doesn’t that detract from the foundation Misplaced Pages was built upon? You don’t ask to view an article or search for financial gain… why do you allow other companies to do the same on your behalf?! I wanted to see a source from The NY Times, but I had to pay $ for information that would take me 2 more minutes to find FOR FREE on a different outlet.

I mention this because you should either negotiate a rate of commission based on subscription sales from your citations, or eliminate all of them. NO MERCY! I also mention this because this would solve ALL of your financial problems in a month if implemented properly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1680:77EA:59B6:922:9102:26A1 (talk) 10:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Many of Misplaced Pages's best articles are from the Arts and Sciences and are based on citing scholarly research. Such material is often behind a paywall because the journals in question have a very limited paying readership (often via university and commercial libraries) and have to fund themselves somehow. While there is a growing trend to open access, particularly for research funded by government money, it is unlikely that all sources will become free-to-access. Just be happy that Misplaced Pages is not short of cash and makes summaries of such research freely available thanks to the work of volunteers here. In many cases, Misplaced Pages provides a reliable summary of such material and means that most people don't need to pay anything — although donations to the WMF are welcome from those who can afford to make them. The rest of us can donate our time to make the encyclopaedia better. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that many paywalled publishers do make their journals and archives freely available to Misplaced Pages editors via the Misplaced Pages library, which long-term editors here can join. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Note that sources don't have to be on the internet, books can be very good sources, and in a sense they are also "paywalled." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Same reasons that books that others haven't bought are valid sources —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

This is covered by WP:SOURCEACCESS, specifically "Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access." Thus saith the policy Verifiability. Let they who wouldst gainsay it look to their Wikipedial soul. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Not a great fan of sources with a WP:PAYWALL. I know of several articles that rely extensively on academic sources with a paywall, and it would require a considerable amount of $ to read them all. This leads to problems with WP:V, because you cannot read or check the source without paying. Same with books. While most people are acting in good faith when they cite a book, if it is a very old, obscure or expensive book, the same problem occurs.--♦IanMacM♦ 12:27, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Had someone trying to add incorrect information and cited an old obscure book. the information was left on the article for a while (~1-2 weeks) while AGF-ing on the sourcing. But I managed to fish the book from the archives at the national library, after which the incorrect information was removed. – robertsky (talk) 17:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

This is not a helpdesk question. It's a policy question. Please read WP:V. Please discuss proposed changes at Misplaced Pages talk:Verifiability. Please be aware that Misplaced Pages has less than ten principles that rise to the level of "policy" (The rest are guidelines, etc.) The policies have been in existence for more than 20 years now, so your discussion may be lengthy. As for paying: No need. You can ask another editor to verify that the reference is being properly used. -Arch dude (talk) 14:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Once I got into hot water by citing a memorial plaque which can be found in a northern German city. "Do I have to travel there to check your citation?". Uhm... yes. Personally I wish the Misplaced Pages - which supports free knowledge - would only cite publicly accessible sources. But as others have said, this is a policy decision. And there's the fact that Wikipedians working in academia have an advantage due to their institutional subscriptions. "I also mention this because this would solve ALL of your financial problems in a month if implemented properly." The Wikimedia Foundation has a literal metric shit-ton of money - 300 million US$, says a source.--Keimzelle (talk) 14:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Self-published or Useable Reference

Not a complicated question but rather one about self-publishing, third parties and when references can be used.

i) Person A records a conversation between Person A and Person B, with Person C interviewing them. ii) The recording is then uploaded to Person A's website. iii) The recording is transcripted by me hopefully to include facts and (short) quotes from in a Wiki article.

Can any of this be used as a reference or is it self-published and not available as such?

iv) If Person D and others have a conversation that is hosted by Person A's website, can that be used for facts or (short) quotes as a reference by me?

I am not clear as to whether a transcription of a converstion is a good reference.

Thanks :) Richard Nowell (talk) 11:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

We don't know the transcriber from Adam. There is no way of knowing if they have transcribed accurately or, at the other extreme, just made things up. If the transcription were confirmed by a reliable source, then it would be acceptable. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

The original recording is there for all to hear with a transcription downloadable from the same site. The transcription would be through a legally-used website. I think the question is more about using a conversation between person A and person B that is then published by person A on his/her website. is that a reputable source? Richard Nowell (talk) 12:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Richard Nowell: The recording itself is the source, not the transcription. The transcription is a convenience, like a translation from a different language. The interview itself is not a general "reliable source" but is instead a "self source" and must be used with caution: see WP:SELFSOURCE. Arch dude (talk) 12:40, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Everyone above seems to be ignoring the need to know what the article is about. Is the article about person A, B, or C? Or is it about something else? If it is about something else, is person A, B, or C a recognized expert on the something else? Whether or not something is a reliable source, an acceptable self-published source, or original research are all context-specific questions.

Some examples:

• Albert and Bob have started a company. Charlie is part of the company's PR team. Charlie interviews Albert and Bob for the company's website. You want to include facts and quotes in a Misplaced Pages article about the company. - This reference would not contribute to establishing notability. Assuming notability is established by other sources, it would be acceptable under about self for limited use for uncontroversial facts.
• Albert and Bob work for NASA are experts in planetary geology, with a focus on Mars. Charlie interviews them for his science podcast. Albert puts the podcast on his website. You want to include facts and quotes in the Misplaced Pages article about Mars. - As Albert and Bob are recognized experts in planetary geology, their statements concerning Martian geology would fall under self published sources and would be considered reliable expert opinions.
• Albert and Bob work for NASA are experts in planetary geology, with a focus on Mars. Charlie interviews them for his science podcast. Albert puts the podcast on his website. You want to include facts and quotes in the Misplaced Pages article about Albert. - At this point it's back to being an about self issue. The interview does not contribute to establishing notability, but could be used to source uncontroversial facts about Albert.
• Albert and Bob work for NASA are experts in planetary geology, with a focus on Mars. Charlie interviews them for his science podcast. Albert puts the podcast on his website. You want to include facts and quotes in the Misplaced Pages article about fish. - This would not be an acceptable use of this source, as Albert and Bob are not experts in fish, nor are they themselves fish.
• Albert and Bob have started a company. You are Charlie. You interview them for the Misplaced Pages article. Albert puts the recording on his website. You want to include facts and quotes in the Misplaced Pages article about the company. - This is original research. You conducted the interview - the research. This is not usable on Misplaced Pages.

I hope this helps. ~ ONUnicornproblem solving 18:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Question from CKWiki1818

Every time I am trying to edit this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/Viber, the changes I make disappear. What am I doing wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CKWiki1818 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@CKWiki1818: You can check this yourself by looking at the page history. You made a single big edit. Your edit was reverted because it "broke citation formats". I suggest that you make a series of small edits instead and check your work using the "preview" feature. -Arch dude (talk) 12:47, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Non Notability of an Article

A tag has been placed on your user page, User:Vango Rosios/sandbox, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be advertising which only promotes or publicises someone or something. Promotional editing of any kind is not permitted, whether it be promotion of a person, company, product, group, service, belief, or anything else. This is a violation of our policies regarding acceptable use of user pages — user pages are intended for active editors of Misplaced Pages to communicate with one another as part of the process of creating encyclopedic content, and should not be mistaken for free webhosting resources or advertising space. Please read the guidelines on spam, the guidelines on user pages, and, especially, our FAQ for Organizations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vango Rosios (talk • contribs) 14:57, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Note: also asked at the Teahouse, with more context. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Question from Irishlaw

Hello. My employer would like to add additional factual statements to our branded Misplaced Pages pages. We have no intention of revising "controversial" content or what might be deemed negative. We simply want to add more facts about the business and business history. Further, we have noticed our right rail panels list out of date facts and would like to correct those. We have read the Misplaced Pages Paid Contribution and the Conflict of Interest articles. Although, it would be nice to have updated and factual information on our branded pages, we do not want to activate the COI warning. The COI page was not clear about when a page receives that warning. If we are merely adding facts does that automatically require the COI warning on our pages?

For example, what if our app is available on LG devices, but the right rail Facts Box under Platforms only lists Samsung and Sony. If we add LG is that considered a COI? Thank you so much for any insight! We absolutely do not want to disrupt Misplaced Pages. Irishlaw (talk) 18:44, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

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