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Personal attack

John Smith's said the following about me on his Talk page:

Lol, what - you'd prefer to maintain a misunderstanding between us? Maybe you could do with seeing a psychiatrist. You obviously have issues that need to be addressed. John Smith's 11:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think he crossed the line in implying that I am mentally unstable and should seek help. This is not only rude, but totally inappropriate.--Sir Edgar 23:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

POV pushing

User Patchouli has unilaterally added POV edits to Iran/Islam related articles, and has reverted edits that removed the POV. He has used the pejorative term "Mullah-in-cheif" on the Assembly of Experts. Please see for the diff. Please see for the discussion. He has used the pejorative neologism "Mullahcracy" on the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran article (), the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists article (see history for reverts , and discussion ), and the History of fundamentalist Islam in Iran article (see history for reverts )

He has pushed POV in many articles. For example he added "It seems without question that the government of Iran is clerical fascist…" on the Clerical fascism article (see history for his reverts and edits , and the discussion ). And has only added blogs and editorials for sources of this.

Another example of his POV pushing is .

He added a section called Nicknames to the Iran article and wrote "One nickname of Iran is Land of Mullahs" . Like most of his POV edits he reverted editors attempts of removing his POV (you will see over three reverts on seperate occasions bases on the "Land of Mullahs" edit ).

When I complained about him making unilateral POV edits without discussion he merely replied "I am proud to have reverted your censorship" .

On the article he wrote of Khatami "He has received criticism inside and outside the Islamic Republic and it is not known how a mullah can bring freedom." (Please see the history for the extensive amount of unilateral edits ).

Many others have had problems with Patchouli's POV, what I have provided is only the tip of the iceberg. See , , , and . Agha Nader 02:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader

• I have had a lot of trouble with Patchouli's edits just recently, so I'll be adding my findings as I go along. For one, see Using terrorist opposition group as a 'background information' link. Very misleading to link to a terrorist opposition group's claims as simply "some background." The Behnam 03:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• Also, note this series of revert warring. Someone removed an undue weight POV issue about some magazine's opinion of Ali Khamenei (see for the relevant discussion). But Patchouli edit warred over this: , , , , , , , (this one uses a different POV source, Daniel Pipes),, , , , is the full sequence of events.
• Patchouli has explicitly stated his POV goal here when justifying his edits to another user. The Behnam 03:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• A POV re-introduction without any regard for the discussion on talk page . The Behnam 03:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• Another POV gem , with edit warring , , . The Behnam 06:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• A 'Patchoulic' article , combining some editorials with OR to make negative assertions about those demonstrations. Perhaps a workable article, but Patchouli's style does not involve neutral writing and presentation. The Behnam 20:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• Added a link to a strongly anti-Islam website , on the Religion of Peace article, which talks about the use of "religion of peace" to describe Islam. Adding a link to a very biased website in the article body, as its own section, is very POV. Afterwards added an external link in addition , so nothing was even slightly improved. I can't help but consider the possibility that it is misleading to say "Official Website of Religion of Peace" in the article where Islam is being discussed as a "religion of peace." In any case, the entire addition of that website to the mix was rather POV. The Behnam 10:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
• Further POV & OR together ... in general, Patchouli's edits at Mutaween page . The Behnam 10:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
• I edited a page authored by Patchouli to remove POV . He soon reverted it, no reason given . The Behnam 02:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Patchouli is a very interesting person: His edits does hit one's raw nerves! I used to improve his edits on Iran related topics, but he has accused me of being a spy:

• "Agents of the Islamic Republic need to stop. Despite your salary, the campaign to disseminate falsehood is tough"
• And even on mediation pages that I wasn't participating in, he has somehow managed to get me involved as an example of an Iranian agent:

"Employees of the Islamic Republic who edit Misplaced Pages in their spare time have been dithering & can't decide on censoring Misplaced Pages."

But on the plus side, his edits has helped me to campaign for filtering Misplaced Pages in Iran :-) --Gerash77 03:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

If more than one editor has tried to resolve the dispute, you have the makings of an RfC here. Jkelly 03:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand the need for an RFC here. This is a consistent pattern of disruption and POV-pushing on Patchouli's part; I think administrative action should be taken against Patchouli so that we don't have to constantly hunt down and remove POV OR additions from what is a very large number of articles. The Behnam 06:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I am also one of the editors that has had to deal with Patchouli's sneaky POV pushing attempts. This is definitely a pattern of behaviour that he has on all articles related to the middle east. I am asking for your help to put a stop to User:Patchouli's abuses and his sabotage of wikipedia middle-east related articles. Please take the time to read the following links for information about his history of misconduct. I now feel that there's no reasonable chance to reach a resolution with him and therefore I'm seeking to present his case at the ArbCom or an RfC for user conduct. Please see User_talk:LittleDan#POV_pushing - Talk:Mohammad_Khatami#Patchouli_edits - User_talk:LittleDan#hello - User_talk:Alex9891#Khatami's reform protection Barnetj 17:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I've already written about Patchouli many times before, and I don't want to repeat myself. He is not a good contributor and, in my opinion, should be banned. LittleDan 19:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I get frustrated whenever I see AN/I reports like this. One side, Patchouli, is vehemently ANTI-Iran, but then I see the other side, or a faction thereof, like Gerash77, who seems to have a long history of agitating against WIkipedia and actioning for it's censorship in Iran. I wind up feeling like if we deal with only the one issue brought to AN/I, but ignore the revealed OTHER problems, we're really not much better off, and possibly worse off. Can we address Gerash77's actions against what he calls a 'patchopedia', and brags of helping to censor it on his User Talk? ThuranX 03:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe at a different ANI. This particular ANI is about Patchouli's POV & OR editing, as well as unwillingness to compromise with a number of different editors. I don't think these different editors comprise some sort of anti-WP "faction;" the whole reason that Agha Nader started this and others, including myself, contributed is because Patchouli's disruptive edits are hindering the project. So I think it is unfair to characterize all of us as an anti-WP group just because one member of this group claims he convinced the IRI to filter WP. Anyway, this ANI hasn't really gone anywhere significant, and we are thinking about moving to an RFC or ArbCom. Most of the people who have had these unpleasant experiences with Patchouli consider ArbCom the best choice, including editors who haven't posted here (saving for ArbCom), so I intend to apply for ArbCom once I finally figure out the confusing process. The Behnam 08:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

There isn't just Iranian who protest against "Patchouli". For example LittleDan neither Iranian nor Muslim. He's an admin of wikipedia. Please look at his comment on Patchouli's talk page few months ago:

"Hi there. Some people have told me that you've repeatedly violated the rules of NPOV in a number of articles that you have edited and created. I just want to tell you as clearly as I can that no article in Misplaced Pages is meant to convey a particular message or opinion, only the truth which has been agreed-upon by basically everyone. When you write an article that criticizes or advocates something or someone, this must be balanced by an opposing viewpoint in the same article. One user wrote on my talk page that you have created issues with the following articles:

*Mohammad Khatami's reforms (POV fork to bash a living person, just look at the introduction and how biased it's worded)

*Mohammad Khatami ( Please see the evidence of some of Patchouli's abuses at Talk:Mohammad_Khatami#Patchouli_edits, it includes links and refernces to his personal attacks on other users' talk pages calling them agents of foreign governments etc)

*Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists (adding Mullahcracy which is political epithet, jargon and neologism, as an alternative to the title of the article by citing political editorials! Also see Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Mullahcracy)

*Association for Defense of Azerbaijani Political Prisoners (POV fork)

*Khomeini's Islamic leadership (POV fork)

*Government-organized demonstration (POV fork)

If you continue to do things like this, I'll be forced to block you. Misplaced Pages is meant to be an encyclopedia, not an editorial page, and when you do this, it just makes more work for other editors who have to delete your articles and revert your changes. If you keep doing this, I'll have to block you from Misplaced Pages or bring this case to the arbitration commit. Another important thing is, Don't delete posts from your talk page. You should let others see what people have previously written to you, even if it isn't always positive. LittleDan 17:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Oops. Upon reviewing Misplaced Pages policy, this should actually be refered to the Arbitration committee. I will do that now. LittleDan 17:33, 27 October 2006 (UTC)"

--Sa.vakilian 18:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Well just have to say one thing about this user that he keep changing OBL lead with The Honored Sheikh Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden, I do not think majority called him The Honored Sheikh and it should have any place in the lead of the article but changing it back again and again is not understandable to me. --- ALM 19:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I think we should refer to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee.--Sa.vakilian 19:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Community ban proposed, please give your opinion below

Adding new header to turn this thread into a proposal for a community ban. Note that LittleDan has already posted above that he supports a ban. Please give your opinion below if you haven't already. Bishonen | talk 00:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Oh, good grief. "POV-pushing" is surely too weak a term here, and the user has been around long enough to get a clue about encyclopedic editing if he's ever going to. I suggest there's no need to bother the arbcom. How about a ban for exhausting the community's patience? I know mine got exhausted just from reading the above, especially LittleDan's comments. Bishonen | talk 04:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Yes, we are aiming for a ban. If this can be done without having to go through ArbCom & all of its formalities, that is better. I think this ANI lays it all out very well, and this isn't even all of it. The more I look, the more I find. It is completely disruptive, and I'm tired of finding bad edits, undo/correct them, and then fight his successive blind reverts and attitude. The Behnam 05:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

See my response to Sa.vakilian on my page. Briefly, a community ban doesn't involve the ArbCom, it's performed by the community. It should be proposed right here, preferably in a new thread. See WP:BAN:

"There have been situations where a user has exhausted the community's patience to the point where he or she finds themselves blocked. Administrators who block in these cases should be sure that there is widespread community support for the block, and should note the block on the Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents as part of the review process.... Community bans must be supported by a strong consensus and should never be enacted based on agreement between a handful of admins or users."

This sounds to me like a case for a ban like that. But if there doesn't turn out to be consensus that the user has exhausted the community's patience, I suggest you ask somebody previously uninvolved to make a good-faith effort to reach out to him and make him change his approach to editing. If that fails, go directly to arbitration. From the links and quotes already posted, I don't see the sense in wearing out everybody with a formal mediation process and/or an WP:RFC which would only turn into a flameout anyway. Requesting arbitration isn't in itself difficult or formalistic. It's the RFC's and the more or less "official" mediation venues that are the big time-sinks. Bishonen | talk 13:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

User:Mikakasumov made a good-faith effort to reach out to him and make him change his approach to editing on July 2006:

then User:LittleDan on October 27 then User:The Behnam did so on February 8 2007, and then User:Grcampbell on February 11 . ::Certainly all of them haven't affected him. I can list some of his violations against WP policies and guidelines and because of being fair I told him to defend himself. --Sa.vakilian 13:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sa.vakilian... no. Those aren't efforts to reach out :-( Vandalism warning templates, and fair-use image upload templates are not dispute resolution, they're the exact opposite. Please ask an experienced user to do the reaching out thing, because the examples you give are the wrong kind. Of course they didn't have a good effect on him, warning templates never do have a good effect. The only posts anything like good faith dispute resolution are LittleDan's, which are in human language and a more conciliatory tone. (Though since they double as block warnings, they're not exactly mediation attempts, either.) Also, did you read my response to you on my page, for instance about not listing policies ? Bishonen | talk 22:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

I think that this by Agha Nader is a good example . Patchouli's response? . The Behnam 00:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

And this is another example of good-faith response "Patchouli, please see Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not, and please read it carefully. I urge you to stop this incessant propagandistic behaviour. To other editors here, please do not respond to such provocations. We are here to build an encyclopedia, not to debate and argue pointlessly. There are discussion forums for that. Thank you, Khodavand 13:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)"--Sa.vakilian 05:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• i would agree with the sentiments expressed by Bishonen. some of the edits he's made on Mutaween are simply outrageous. ITAQALLAH 14:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have mildly tangled with this editor myself and when I did I had a distinct impression that I was again dealing with a currently community banned editor: DAde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) I haven't followed this editor's behavior extensively but if this editor has continued to edit along the lines of user DAde (talk · contribs) then I too would support a community ban. (→Netscott) 15:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support community ban, per Bishonen. This user has been around long enough, is showing no interest in doing anything productive, why waste more time? If the user were acting in good faith I could see the point of it, but that is not the case SFAICT. KillerChihuahua 00:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Community ban proposals now go to the community noticeboard. --physicq (c) 00:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, but 15 minutes ago they still went here, per the WP:BAN policy which you have only just edited. Does it really have to be moved, now that it's been (appropriately) started here? I agree with the policy change—I can certainly see the point of it—but this noticeboard is still where people are likely to look for such things, and the move itself halfway through would have a bad effect on this attempt. I propose that since it was started here while proposals here were still policy, it should run its course here. Bishonen | talk 00:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

• The recurring pattern is that of me adding information and certain anti-knowledge users shouting, "WE DON'T LIKE THESE EDITS. WE DISAGREE WITH THEM. LET'S CENSOR THE STUFF. LET'S GET THIS USER BANNED."--Patchouli 03:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

What's your idea about making an entry in Misplaced Pages:Community noticeboard and redirect it to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. --Sa.vakilian 03:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. That's yet another reason for not moving the thread at this stage: if the discussion is at CN, with a link to it here at ANI, that link will very soon be archived. Not good. Bishonen | talk 03:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Should it be linked to the Community Ban subsection or the entire case? The Behnam 03:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Based on all the evidence above, and my experience with this user, I have to support a community ban. One of the most outrageous edits by Patchouli I've seen is when he added at the top of the Iran article: "One nickname of Iran is Land of Mullahs." But the worst had to be a talk page entitled, "Iranians want to nuke mullahs". One user responded with the comment, "Please stop this--it's sick!" I think this user has long exhausted the community's patience. Enough is enough. Khoikhoi 05:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have not had much interaction with this user but "One nickname of Iran is Land of Mullahs", "Iranians want to nuke mullahs" and insisting on using "The Honored Sheikh" for Osama bin Laden is disappointing. --Aminz 06:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I must agree with Aminz here.Proabivouac 06:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have had quite a few interactions with Aminz in several places including a few days at the Mediation Cabal over a photograph. Please read the honesty article.--Patchouli 07:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Patchouli, comments like "One nickname of Iran is Land of Mullahs", "The Honored Sheikh Osama bin Laden" caught my eyes. I think they are not appropriate. --Aminz 07:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I put "Land of Mullahs" at the end of the article to not give it undue weight. Next, bin Laden is a sheikh and "the honored" is like "his eminence". The difference between bin Laden and Ali Khamenei is that bin Laden brought jihad out of the Middle East to the U.S. Also, Khamenei relies more heavily on taqiyya. However, Khamenei is still a jihadist

Patchuli, you misunderstood. Our problem is not your different POV but your offensive manner. There are numerous wikipedians who have anti-Islamic or anti-Iranian POV but you violate wikipedia policies and guidelines. For example Agents of the Islamic Republic need to stop. Despite your salary, the campaign to disseminate falsehood is tough is personal attack and against WP:ATTACK or making POV article like Khomeini's Islamic leadership is against POV forking. Apparently you violate Misplaced Pages:Copyright violations . These are just some of your violations against wikipedia rules. --Sa.vakilian 08:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk page guidelines does not encourage us to make propaganda through wikipedia talkpages as it happened here. Iranian are saying, "we don't want peace in our time." is PLAIN BULLS**T. Patchouli, you should understand that We, as a community, do not like your edits but we are very specific about what kind of edits we are talking about. Iranians want to nuke mullahs, land of Mullahs, Of course, there will be civilian deaths, but there are civilian deaths now and the rest of GARBAGE is what we don't like in wikipedia space.

I'd not go further and ask for a community ban but Patchouli should behave well according to wikipedia policies and guidelines. A probation would be a good solution. But if the community wants a ban, i'd not oppose it of course. -- FayssalF - 10:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Islamic_democracy#POV and http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2007-01-12_Religious_Democracy Farhoudk 11:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I unreservedly recommend a community ban. I have had many interactions with this user before. Patchouli is not a new comer to wikipedia, he knows the rules but breaks them nevertheless. There is no hope to change this user's behaviour. Different editors have gone to great lengths to reason with him in several different occasions, and he has never changed his behaviour, and in some cases (including myself) he has responded with personal attacks User_talk:Barnetj#Khatami. He continues adding comments such as "It is not known how a mullah can bring freedom!" referring to President Khatami . He doesn't seem to get that wikipedia is not a political commentary, but an encyclopedia. Maybe if he was a journalist writing articles in some political newspaper I would even agree with many of his comments. But he just doesn't understand the purpose of an encyclopedia! So I vote for a ban. Barnetj 11:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Olala! Olala! I thought the behaviour wasn't systematic. A blatant POV on article space?! It can't be more explicit than that. This is too much. ...and it is not known how a mullah can bring freedom... is an equivalent of ...and it is not known how Patchouli can bring NPOV to wikipedia.... A community ban! Enough is enough. -- FayssalF - 11:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Strongly Agree with the ban. He has continuously called many, including myself a spy and a government agent, and hasn't stopped. This has resulted in many contributors either leaving Misplaced Pages, or in my case, getting impatience and emailing Telecommunication Companies to block this site, to save myself from further defamation. His behavior has resulted in negative emotions and actions which has resulted in edit wars and mutual accusations. He continually assumes bad faith, and accuses others of sockpuppetry, in some cases like the one you see, simply because "they disappeared at the same time"!--Gerash77 12:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

has he gone through the formal process? (WP:RFAR or WP:RFC)? BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 12:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I left this user a message regarding this. I don't think a hard ban would be any help, as this user would just keep creating more accounts. The best course of action is to issue a one-month block or leave the desicion to the Arbcom, who can place him on probation. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 12:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

When I thrash out issues on a talk page, I get accused of prejudice. I read reports of Azar Nafisi & Homa Darabi in Iran and ex-patriates like Mother brings self-immolated daughter's body home & World Watch, then I say to myself,"Hey Islamofascism is alive and well." Foreign journalists say,"people we want to interview are scared." I am indebted forever and hope to be able to contribute to a healthy mullah-free Iran in the near future. is just my opinion? Why do I need to self-censor myself on talk pages? Why was "Khatami relaxed freedom of speech laws giving democracy reformers a false sense of security only to engage in one of the largest crackdowns in the country’s history...e will never make progress in the region if we deal with wolves in sheep’s clothing.ROMNEY DENOUNCES KHATAMI VISIT TO HARVARD The Commonwealth of Massachusetts 5 September 2006 from Mohammad Khatami's reforms?--Patchouli 13:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do I need to self-censor myself on talk pages? Ummmm! Bear in mind Patchouli that Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox. I think you may be confusing opinions with facts and that you fail to understand that. That's why i first suggested a probation period instead of a ban. However, i changed my mind after realizing that it is rather systematic and the proof is that you still defend your unproven theories. Do you realize that you are acting against Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. If yes than, IMHO, you'd still have a chance to correct things. -- FayssalF - 13:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

He might use another IP if he banned but it's not good reason to leave punishment. Your suggestion resuls in leaving anybody to do what thaey want because our reaction may not work. Furthermor we reinforce wikipedia policies by banning such user.--Sa.vakilian 13:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Mitt Rejects Iranian Ex-Pres--Patchouli 13:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

  I think we should explore steering Patchouli in the right direction. If we ban right now then chances are Patchouli will resort to creating more accounts to evade this. I strongly suggest we try talking this user out of his recent behaviour. Someone a little talk goes a long way. If that doesn't work, a dispute resolution could be a viable solution. Checking his block log, he was only blocked twice. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 13:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This is what you could have edited instead of any other nonsense:

On September 5, 2006 and following former Iranian President Khatami's visit to Massachusetts, Mitt Romney requested from all Massachusetts state government agencies to refuse hosting Khatami and criticized Harvard University for honouring him.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.romneyreport.com/archives/2006/09/mitt_rejects_ir.html |title=Mitt Rejects Iranian Ex-Pres |accessdate=2007-02-20 |format=html |work=romneyreport.com }}</ref> I hope you get the point. -- FayssalF - 13:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I basically agree with everyone here who wishes to ban Patchouli, so I shouldn't bother repeating them. Patchouli has continued to write articles with a biased point of view, despite repeated admonishments. However, I think it's OK to put whatever comments you'd like on your talk page. Additionaly, Patchouli has made a few useful edits, so perhaps we should ban him for only a limited amount of time (say, 3 months) to send a clear message that Patchouli should not be making biased edits, that he is in clear violation of Misplaced Pages policy, but that he is not being censored. If he continues, then he should be banned permanently. This is not an issue of the religion or national origin of people bringing up this case; it is an issue one Wikipedian introducing his own political views to Misplaced Pages, which is plainly against Misplaced Pages policy. LittleDan 17:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Upon reviewing Misplaced Pages policy, I have decided to ban Patchouli indefinitely, as there is an extremely strong community consensus to do so. LittleDan 18:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Patchouli hasn't shouted at me but he's attacked the other wikipedians. If he apologized them because of his impolite manner and violation of wikipedia rules, then we could forgive him. But I don't see any proof which shows he's changed his manner. Unfortunately he's continued it in this page too. The guy who is behinde this name and IP can come back to wikipedia with another IP and username if he changes his manner but he should understand community of wikipedians can't bear violation of the rules.--Sa.vakilian 19:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A lot of people shout and are forgiven. The main problem is the disruptive editing habits. There was nothing indicating that Patchouli planned on changing; he seemed proud of his disruption. It is best that he remain banned. The Behnam 02:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppets

I infer that several of the above users are sockpuppets. Why?

• At Talk:Ali Khamenei, several users like Hessam, Nareklm, Gerash77 who were debating me suddenly disappeared. Subsequently, User:Agha Nader & User:The Behnam emerged to insist on illogic.
• User:Arkeides, User:Fooladin, User:Monfared were created during my discussion with User:Barnetj at Talk:Mohammad Khatami's reforms.
• User:Khoikhoi is currently on Misplaced Pages:Probation for teaming up with pro-Islamic Republic users to bully others.--Patchouli 06:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Errrr...I suggest you read the List of users formerly on probation. Khoikhoi 08:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I know Hessam. He's an admin in Persian wikipedia. He has been active there since 2004. I'll want all of them to defend themseleves.--Sa.vakilian 08:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Also I don't understand why you mentioned Hessam, Nareklm, User:Arkeides, User:Fooladin and User:Monfared while non of them have participated in this discussion. It appears that you try to blame other wikipedians instead of answering our criticisms. --Sa.vakilian 10:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Uhh ya, i only reverted once in the whole article go do w/e because im not related to any of them. Artaxiad 08:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow. This sort of flagrant assumption of bad faith, an unreasonable accusation that all your critics are sockpuppets (including one admin, and most of the rest are established users) with absolutely no research or evidence whatsoever, when your own poor behavior is at issue, in order to avoid addressing serious criticism, tends to speak towards your incorrigibility and the necessity of a ban, not the opposite. A community ban isn't something that happens when you hit a magic number of blocks, it's what happens when the community, through experience, comes to the conclusion that it can no longer tolerate your behavior. If you make that blatantly clear to us of your own accord, it will happen all the quicker. Dmcdevit·t 09:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You know, Patchouli, when you find yourself in hole, it's usually not a good idea to keep digging. Beit Or 13:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

RfC/Personal attacks

I've been under constant personal attacks recently from User:Worldtraveller (, , ), who is currently editing only to launch such attacks and to work on his essay of much recent note about Misplaced Pages's failures. Additionally, he's opened up an RfC against me, which has gone two days of spamming without certification, and I would like to see closed. Though these are clearly personal attacks, I of course would not like to simply deal with this behavior myself, and would appreciate other admins looking into this (I have thus far been unable to receive any input on the situation).

On another note, my now closed RfC is still being edited, and I've been unable to receive any comments on what to do there, either. --InShaneee 04:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Only just noticed that you define a note to one person as spamming. I think you know that's ridiculous. Worldtraveller 16:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

(I confine myself to the procedural questions.) The more recent RfC has remained uncertified for well more than forty-eight hours and so can be deleted straightaway by any uninvolved party (the endorsement of the statement of the dispute by an uninvolved party ≠ a certification of that which underlies the dispute inasmuch, most notably, as the former does not reflect the endorsing user's having tried to resolve the dispute). On the latter issue, an RfC, to my understanding, is generally not formally closed, such that there is not after some period erected a bar to further participation (beyond, of course, the abiding WP:CIVIL, etc.); one can safely divorce him/herself of an "old" RfC, though, I imagine, when its constructive potential appears exhausted (viz., when a consensus of editors has been borne out and contributions tend only to represent unsubstantial endorsements or restatements of expressed views). Joe 05:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

• OK, we have an issue here in that several individuals express frustration with InShaneee. Much of this is sour grapes. Can any uninvolved party give some insight as to whether InShanee might need a bit of support, or if a proper RfC (as in: not a list of grudges) would be worth doing? My feeling is that InShaneee is just an admin who does hard cases sometimes, with predictable results, but I could be wrong. Guy (Help!) 23:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

There actually were some good comments from uninvolved users in the last RfC, and there was some good progress made on many sides of the issue, I think. --InShaneee 01:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Those are personal attacks. I left a civility warning for this user just a couple days ago, I have left another. InBC 01:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. They're not personal attacks. "If you refuse to justify your actions, you're a terrible administrator" isn't even the same as calling Inshaneee a terrible administrator — see the "if" in there? I would object strongly to Worldtraveller being blocked or in any way intimidated over such posts. I think it's important for the healthy functioning of this site that criticism of admin actions, even strong criticism, is allowed, nay, encouraged. There is nothing personal about criticizing somebody's admin actions. If I have anything to do with it, nobody'll ever get blocked for calling me a terrible administrator, with or without the "if". Bishonen | talk 02:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

If you refuse to justify your actions, <personal attack>. Ummm, ya that is a personal attack, failing to justify yourself does not allow for personal attacks. Also, you can criticize without name calling, the personal attack in question was not needed to air his concerns. InBC 03:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, I did not block this user, or even mention a block. It was just a polite request to be civil. InBC 03:20, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A request warning which mentioned a previous request warning. Yes. I'm afraid I found your tone threatening. Food for thought? Bishonen | talk 03:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

My thought was simply that there is a place, a time, and a tone. This happened more than a month ago, and I pretty much always consider "surprised you can string together a few sentences" to be an insult. Either way, I've now made another attempt to resolve this conflict, so hopefully this will end here. --InShaneee 05:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sneaky personal attacks are still personal attacks. For instance, someone who says "If I were a vindictive person, I'd call you a <censored>, but I'm not vindictive so I'm not going to say that" is in essence gaming the system. Oh and by the way, I don't think we officially "close" RFCs, but adding new remarks to a page that is essentially abandoned is not a plausible form of dispute resolution. >Radiant< 10:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Well put. InBC 13:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I find this utterly astonishing. How is 'you're a terrible administrator' a personal attack? Did you notice it was prefaced with "If you refuse to justify your administrative actions"? Worldtraveller 12:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

What about "surprised you can string together a few sentences"? I completely agree with radiant that prefacing an insult with a conditional is just a way to attempt to get away with a personal attack. Besides, the behavior of others never justifies an insult, so that conditional means nothing. We are volunteers and failure to justify himself to you does not make him fair game. InBC 13:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Try reading what I said because it wasn't that. The statement "If you refuse to justify your administrative actions, you're a terrible administrator" is just basic common sense. To read a personal insult into it makes no sense at all. Worldtraveller 14:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have read it a few times, it still looks the same. To explain further would require me to repeat myself, which I try not to do too much. InBC 16:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe try just one more time. You do appear to have misread it. Worldtraveller 16:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Mucoid plaque

This article survived an AfD, unfortunately, because people felt it was necessary to expose this health fraud on Misplaced Pages. Nonetheless one editor, Heelop, keeps removing any reference this fabricated concept is not supported by the medical community. Despite the fact he can't provide any article from a medical journal he removes the disclaimer from the article that it is not described in medical literature.

His actions are not only in violation of policy, but since his only contribution to Misplaced Pages consists of removing sceptical passages from this article I am inclined to think he has a more than superficial interest in maintaining the article as advertisment. Could some uninvolved admin look into this and see if or what action is possible. (RfC? Block?). Nomen Nescio 17:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have blocked Heelop for disruption. Guy (Help!) 22:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

If anyone feels like looking at the article, it needs serious cleanup. I tidied the lead a bit but it is still overtly polemical. Guy (Help!) 15:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sigh. Is there any fringe medical topic so utterly ridiculous and unfounded that someone won't go to the mat to push it on Misplaced Pages? MastCell 01:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

On present evidence? No takers. Guy (Help!) 20:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked Jacob Peters IP sock

I have blocked 69.110.129.127 (talk · contribs) for one week because it appears to me to be an obvious sock of banned User:Jacob Peters. In addition to the modus operandi matching Jacob Peters exactly (pro-communist POV, dismissing opposing sources as unreliable), the IP is similar to those he has used in the past (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Jacob Peters). I post this here so others can review my actions and because I am told Jacob Peters often uses open proxies. Someone who understands this better may want tot check and see if this is one. Heimstern Läufer 01:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone's gotta take him to rehab. :) What does he have against wikipedia? Axiomm 22:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

He's a spectre haunting Misplaced Pages, trying to subvert its bourgeois complacency and replace it with a revolutionary social consciousness. Sockpuppets of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your latest open proxy. Although for an admirer of Soviet jurisprudence, Peters complains an awful lot about the unfairness of Misplaced Pages's judicial system. To paraphrase the immortal Walter Sobchak, "Fair?!? Who's the f**kin' Stalinist here?" MastCell 22:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  04:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Note that there is an article Jacob Peters that is a redirect to Yakov Peters. Should it stand? BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 12:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes... "Jacob Peters" is a legitimate Anglicization of Yakov Peters, a Latvian Soviet secret policeman whom Stalin called "the last of the romantic revolutionary warriors". Undoubtedly this is where User:Jacob Peters got his username, but the redirect should stand. Ironically enough, the real Yakov/Jacob Peters was purged by Stalin in the late 1930's and arrested and executed by the NKVD (although I'm sure our own revisionist Jacob Peters would explain away the fate of his namesake, since we all know Stalin wouldn't hurt a fly). So a ban from Misplaced Pages, by comparison, is a relatively benign fate. Plus, the real Yakov Peters was posthumously rehabilitated in the 1980's, so there's still hope for his namesake. MastCell 18:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A Semi-protected article that "isn't"

Just a quick observation. The Great Depression article has a semi-protect padlock on it. But, somehow, an anon IP just vandalized it twice. The semi-protect is either not functioning or expired...obviously. Especialy since a very noble and trustworthy anon IP (me) just picked it off the recent changes list and had to revert it. Just thought you'd like to know. Have a nice day! 156.34.216.15 01:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The protection had expired. I removed the {{sprotected2}} padlock template. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 01:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

That's a problem with expiring protections. The template doesn't automatically get removed. Would a bot to remove the templates from expired protected pages be workable? Corvus cornix 19:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Certainly sounds like a good idea. -Hit bull, win steak 14:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I've left a message about this at WP:BOTREQ. -Hit bull, win steak 14:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Jeffrey O. Gustafson?

Hello. I opened an ANI inquery into the actions of Admin Jeffrey O. Gustafson, with a lot of details provided. It has since been removed and I have not been informed of the result. Thanks for your attention to this matter. Captain Barrett 02:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Read the top of this page very carefully, and you will soon know why there were no "results". - WeniWidiWiki 02:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Um, which section are you referring to please? On my previous post I did add "diff's" and did everything which was recommended to me. Captain Barrett 18:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

He might be referring to this part:

Dispute resolution: This page is not part of our Dispute Resolution process.

If you want to make an open informal complaint over the behaviour of an admin, you can do so here. But this is not the Misplaced Pages complaints department. If your problem is a content issue and does not need the attention of people with administrator access, then please follow the steps in dispute resolution. These include: mediation, requests for comment, and as a last resort requests for arbitration.

If no one acted on your request it's possible that no admin felt there was anything actionable under the charter of AN/I. That's just a guess, I didn't read the original entry. Hope it helps, though. ++Lar: t/c 20:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• Well, an Admin made a polite recommendation to Jeffrey to Recuse himself from a contentious AfD we are involved in, but that is all. Also he has not recused himself yet, still very active. Captain Barrett 01:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Note this this user has no user page. Axiomm 22:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe that's because he himself deletes it from time to time. Rightly or wrongly, admins do sometimes do that. Hope that helps. ++Lar: t/c 23:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

From time to time? It's been redlinked consistently since May '06. The only reason the log is so bloody large is because I keep having to redelete vandals and well meaning fools. And nothing says I have to have a user page either, rightly or wrongly. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 23:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I was just explaining for the user asking, why you don't have a user page. From time to time is a generic term that certainly encompasses "often". I did not comment on whether you should or should not have a user page in answering the question. Sorry if I gave offense, it was not intentional. But now that you mention it, while I agree there is no firm requirement, I do think it's reasonable to expect an admin to have something on their user page, however small, that users can find when they have questions, rather than being redlinked, and the user's remark that one wasn't there seemed reasonable to me. That's just my opinion, I'm not claiming it is a generally held sentiment. ++Lar: t/c 14:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

No worries, I wasn't offended. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 20:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Having a redlink userpage instead of a redirect to one's user talk page is pretty much done just to annoy people, much like voting oppose in every RfA and so on, but there's no actual policy against it... so he can continue, if he really likes annoying half of Misplaced Pages over something so petty. --W.marsh 20:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Please try to maintain some semblance of civility. I honestly couldn't care less about whether he has a user page or not, but that comment was over the line. Ral315 » 23:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Saying "he's being annoying" isn't incivil, especially if the claim is supported, which it was. --W.marsh 23:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not the biggest deal in the galaxy, but I have always considered maintaining one's username as a redlink to be inappropriate for an administrator. Newyorkbrad 23:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's uncivil. Actually, I think it's pretty accurate. Why can't he just have his user page being a redirect to his talk page? The redlink is just annoying and makes it harder to contact him. --Cyde Weys 02:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Urgent notice

Please delete JzG's recent post on the User Talk page of Chicagostyledog, as well as the record of it in the edit history. It contains a disclosure of personal information that violates the Misplaced Pages privacy policy. Dino 03:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't even play the blame game , JzG did no such thing. — Moe 03:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the person who originally posted that information was Prodego on January 15. This just compounds the administrative misconduct. Dino 03:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The only thing I see is JzG identifying another sockpuppet.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Chicagostyledog is probably a sockpuppet of Joehazelton. You may ask Gamaliel; he will no doubt confirm my suspicion that it was Joehazelton. Delete the post. Dino 03:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It contains no personal information whatsoever. Personal information is stuff like phone numbers, addresses, names, social security numbers, and the like, not what you are alluding to. No need to delete edit(s). --physicq (c) 03:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I revealed this connection first, based on the "from" header of emails from BryanFromPalatine. I did so to add evidence for Dean being a sock, since I had just blocked an employee of the WMF under edit pattern evidence. :). When Bryan complained I removed it, then contacted Fred Bauder, who told me that it did not need to be oversighted, so it assumedly OK to post it. I would like some external opinions though. Prodego 03:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

JUST REMOVE THE NAME. Dino 03:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

YOU DON"T NEED TO SHOUT. It doesn't take an rocket scientist to figure out the last name given it's in your username. If you didn't want your last name on Misplaced Pages, you probably shouldn't have used it in your username. — Moe 03:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dino, if you have problems with personal information, please visit requests for oversight. Yuser31415 04:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that is even necessary. I mean I'm not even involved in any of this nonsense but even I could put 1+1+1 together and get 3. Nothing has been revealed in that post that a 12 year old couldn't figure out on their own from spending about 5 minutes at WP:AN/I on any given day since we seem to be discussing a certain set of editors almost daily. That said, I concur with Newyorkbrad below, "BryanFromPalatine" should be used here on wiki just so it is clear which editor we are talking about.--Isotope23 14:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Please don't edit my comments. If you have a problem with something I've posted, hit my talkpage.--Isotope23 15:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A new Roskam based IP sock just hit JzG's page HERE IP 128.241.108.232 - FAAFA 03:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of protocol, we should refer on-wiki to "BryanFromPalatine" rather than his real full name, although I agree that under the circumstances nothing has really been disclosed. Newyorkbrad 03:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dino 14:13, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked DeanHinnen for 24 hours due to his continually removing other editors comments from this thread. Even beyond any privacy concerns, his edits are taking out non-privacy related information. Enough is enough.--Isotope23 16:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't edit the comments of others. If there is something OFFICEable, use the process to ask for it. But there, in my judgement, isn't. I see Isotope23 just gave you a 24 hour block for that and for the record, I support it. Use the time to reflect on trying to fit in here better. please. Your style isn't working very well. ++Lar: t/c 16:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

To be nice, I've redacted the part that I suspect most offends him. I didn't restore anyone elses comments just because with edits here it would be difficult, but if anyone wants to add back what they said, feel free. The biggest issue I saw (and the reason I blocked him) was because he was selectively editing comments and leaving parts that completely changed the meaning and tone of the posts.--Isotope23 16:20, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

*Moe readds his comment (and the comment he was responding to) that was removed* I don't believe my reinsertion has violated anything, nor was my comment improper, so I have readded it. — Moe 20:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• I only just noticed this. DeanHinnen acknowledges that his family name is Hinnen, talks openly about being the brother of BryanFromPalatine, calls him Bryan in the RFAR, but to use the name Bryan Hinnen is a privacy violation? Riiiiiight. So we ban Dean for privacy violations, yes? Because it was only by violating Bryan's privacy through "outing" that he got unblocked in the first place, wasn't it? Guy (Help!) 20:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• WP:POINT, Guy... Georgewilliamherbert 00:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocking revert of move

User:Huaiwei made a null edit to block revert to his undiscussed move of Macao Light Transit System . While there is no official policy or guideline, he insists the spelling of Macau/o must be standardised across entire Misplaced Pages. Is blocking revert of move ever allowed on Misplaced Pages? (Cf. an an earlier AN/I discussion in which the same wikipedians were involved.) — Instantnood 07:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As per User_talk:SchmuckyTheCat#Macau.2Fo, it has been long established by community concensus that the spelling of Macau should be "u", and for consistency sake, should be standardised across wikipedia. Is it not something of my own design, as Instantnood allerges (all subcategories in Category:Macau has similarly been standardised and renamed accordingly through community concensus many months back). Instantnood has consistently attempted to ignore concensus by reverting the Macau article and made similar changes elsewhere. His blatant disregard for community concensus is clearly a cause for concern as well.--Huaiwei 07:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you please elaborate why and in what way did those discussions constitute a community consensus? (If I read correctly the first and second links, which are in fact pointing at the same thing, affected only the title of the Macau article.) In what way are the titles of categories comparable to titles and contents of articles in the main namespace? And why should official names of institutions like the Monetary Authority of Macao be affected? — Instantnood 08:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, names of institutions and structures are left untouched as of now, if you did not realise, so I doubt there is a need to explain the latter. As for the former, I do not think I should be explaining the existance of community concensus when all evidence points to this fact. Consistency across article titles, contents of articles and categories (Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_January_24#Macau_categories) need no explaination, because the only explaination is consistency. You were personally involved in many of these discussions, and I am sure you are aware that the issue of consistency has been constantly raised. Yet you chose to deny this, and you chose to feign ignorance as an excuse to continue your reverting exercise.--Huaiwei 08:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

You had been applying your rule to proper names until your drive was halted. In what way did I deny anything or did I feign ignorance, while I actually asked " In what way are the titles of categories comparable to titles and contents of articles in the main namespace? "? And afterall, AN/I is not for content dispute. This thread was started to address your edit that blocked revert to an undiscussed move. — Instantnood 08:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I would certainly like to see some evidence in your first comment. Your continued claims on the non-existance of community concensus is evidence enough, including your attempt to disassociate titles of categories, titles of articles, and content. Just as you claim I am blocking your page move, you are abusing this page to impose a block so that you can continue to revert war, which also makes your gulty of WP:3RR immediately as you are clearly gaming the 3RR rules.--Huaiwei 08:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I invited you to elaborate on in what way did the three threads of discussions you mentioned (you quoted four links at user talk:SchmuckyTheCat#Macau.2Fo, in which the first and second are pointing at the same thing) constitute community consensus and should be applied undiscriminatively to all entries across Misplaced Pages. You then jump to your conclusion that I claimed the "non-existence" of whatever sort of consensus. Could you please focus your response to addressing your blocking of revert to undiscussed move? — Instantnood 09:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see a need to explain to any user who persists in disregarding community concensus. If you form a different opinion form the above, you are most welcome to elaborate on this in support of your behavior, instead of constantly expecting the other member to explain his actions. Unless, of course, you realised you have nothing to support your actions in the first place.--Huaiwei 00:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Note that our naming conventions specifically provide:

• "The current title of a page is not intended to imply that either the title name is preferred or the alternative name is discouraged in the text of articles. The article title should also not be used as a precedent for the naming of any other articles. Editors are strongly discouraged from editing for the sole purpose of changing one controversial name to another."
  

and a big part of the problem here is that this is not being respected. Gene Nygaard 12:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Huaiwei insists that consistency has to be maintained throughout Misplaced Pages (and he also claimed there's policy against linking to redirect). He has yet to produce any reference to any Misplaced Pages guideline or policy, however. — Instantnood 13:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

If one may refer back to the specfic policy, it clearly states that this provision applies "where editors have been unable to reach a strong consensus to support one name above another name". This has hardly been true for the case of Macau/o, where every single name request change has ended up with a preference for Macau. This is strong concensus. The majority of wikipedians has adhered to this, resulting in the majority of articles being spelt with the "u". Only a handful of wikipedians, chiefly Instantnood and a few of his sympahisers persist in using the "o".

It is untrue to argue that there are no guidelines pertaining to spelling consistency in geographic names, which Macau is one. Naming conventions (geographic names) specifically states that The contents (this applies to all articles using the name in question): The same name as in title should be used consistently throughout the article. When combined with previous RFR , and CFR , this means that collectively, the spelling of "Macau" should be applied in all instances of article names and category names, and should be consistently used within the articles themselves.

It is clear from the above that I act based on exiting conventions and the result of community concensus. So I would be quite amused if Instantnood's anti-community behavior is actually vindicated. I certainly hope this is not going to set a negative preceedent for all other similar cases here.--Huaiwei 00:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This whole "Macau"/"Macao" and "PRC"/"Mainland China" stuff has, frankly, gone on too long. It gets resolved in one forum (or does not, as the case may be), and then simply spills over into another, either immediately or after a brief "lull". It's especially vexing that this is now affecting template-populated categories, like {{China-geo-stub}}, since each one of these reverts then shoves about 1000 articles onto the job queue. These naming and categorisation issues need to get wider input, get consensus one way or the other on an actual convention of one sort and another, and remove the excuse of "lack of guideline" from poor behaviour on both sides. Alai 20:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I've put a request for Instantnood to be on 0RR at ArbCom for his part in this behavior and the rest of his hundred reverts over the last day. 2½ years of this edit war is enough. There isn't any excuse for Huaiwei to pre-emptively change the spelling of Macao, either. 2 previous ArbCom cases mean both sides here know better, but 'nood is by far worse.

FYI, existing consensus for the Macao spelling issue is for article title preferences and category names only. The preference is: 1. actual spelling, 2. the u spelling. Inline text is treated like any other spelling difference (Commonwealth vs American, etc) where either could be correct but generally should be consistent with the title or other text. SchmuckyTheCat 01:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems almost overkill to have Yet Another Arbcom Case over this; I'd have hoped that this could have been resolved via community-supported action, if necessary with reference to the previous Arbcom outcome. YAAC seems likely to give us a none-too-speedy, and probably fairy heavy-handed resolution of the whole business. However, I suppose that die is now cast. Alai 01:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have said repeatedly a heavy-handed result isn't desirable. I've proposed a creative solution that would stop the revert warring but allow continued editing and input. The only community supported action that the last ArbCom case would end up with is a complete ban which nobody wants. SchmuckyTheCat 18:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Unprintable characters

Wasn't account creation with unprintable characters shut down by the devs? I've found several accounts which have a lot less (or no) visible characters. Seeing as this computer can play up, are the visible characters boxes just for me or is it for everyone.

• Eheta (User:えへた)
• Saotemo (User:さおても)
• Nerusairu (User:ネルサイル)
• User:縮殴侵
• Susumu aratame (User:奨改)
• Runununereyoeta (User:るぬぬねれよえた)
• Tonahachihese (User:となはちへせ)
• Kohoteniwokoruo (User:コホテニヲコルコ)
• Hoote (User:ほおて)
• Kuhehataechira (User:クヘハタエチラ)
• Ofuhorutorawi (User:おふほるとらゐ)

-- Mgm| 12:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I can't see them. I am guessing they are chinese or something similar. Viridae 12:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I can see them, they're definitely Oriental characters. I will not betray my ignorance by guessing authoratively whether they are Chinese, Cantonese, Japanese, Klingon or whatever. Proto ► 12:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I can see them ... two look Chinese ... the rest I don't recognize. I strongly suggest installing all of the language packs ... it makes life easier when you may potentially come in contact with names that use other character sets. As for policy, WP:UN at one time completely forbade names with non-Latin characters (now, it is just suggested) and once single signon happens, enwiki won't have any control over that anyway. --BigDT 12:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Two Chinese, the rest Japanese. x42bn6 Talk 14:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Indeed... and for those curious, the fourth and fifth ones down are the Chinese ones, with the others being Japanese, as stated above. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, the fourth and fifth ones are Chinese, but Japanese kanji are borrowed from written Chinese, so they're essentially the same thing. The others are Japanese hiragana, though there may be some Japanese katakana present too. A Japanese text set should cover them all. Leebo 21:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Foreign characters have to be allowed to support the upcoming Single User Login, since many wiki users natively operate in other texts. Once SUL goes live, there will be literally tens of thousands of such names imported on to Misplaced Pages. So in short, foreign scripts in usernames are something we just have to learn to deal with it. Also, per foundation direction (and as noted above) one should not be blocking such users, though they are strongly encouraged to add a latin version of their name to their sig. Dragons flight 21:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As long as the link to the user name is clickable, we'll just have to live with it. □□□□□ 21:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Can someone give me the link to the foundation direction allowing non-Latin character usernames? I might need it for future reference. ----physicq (c) 21:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• MediaWiki only disallows usernames that mix character sets. That's why, for example, I can't have the username "Tiтохd", as it is half in Latin, and the other half in Cyrillic. Titoxd 22:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
• It would be a good idea to suggest to users with non-Latin usernames that they provide a transliteration of their names with Latin characters by editing their Preferences, as a "patch" to accomodate those who might be unable to read their usernames, which can just appear as a row of small squares otherwise (as they do on my screen). Tyrenius 23:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • That's what WP:USERNAME is actually saying right now. I'm not sure though whether that will still work under single login. Will signatures be something that a user can set separately for each project? If not, such a policy would in effect mean for us in en-wiki to be dictating Latin-only signatures to all the other wikipedias. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • IIRC, all preferences will be locale-specific. Just login/password are the same. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 00:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• FYI, lines 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, and 11 are Hiragana, lines 3, 8, and 10 are katakana, and the rest are Kanji. Cla68 07:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • And they're all transliterated—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 08:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

off wiki calls for systemic meatpuppetry

it has become apparent that Arrow740 (talk · contribs) has been attempting to recruit meatpuppets on off-wiki fora such as faithfreedom.org, a website known for espousing extreme anti-Muslim views. here are some examples of these posts under the pseudonym "Google=Misplaced Pages":

from here

"Well here's something you guys can do. Spend 5-10 minutes a day on revert-warring, i.e. go to Islam articles and revert them back to the most anti-Islam one you see there. If you do this a few times you'll know which users to revert back to. If there's an edit war going on you can really help that way."

"... It's a really, really small group of people! There is a group of 5 to 10 hardcore Muslim apologists who are constantly slanting the articles toward pro-Islam! This is so dangerous. When people use google they're going to be reading what a handful of Muslim apologists have to say about the subject. There are some people fighting for good but we really need some help.

Become a wikipedian and join us in the fight!"

from here:

"... There can be no formal organization there to promote a particular point of view. We could organize things from here."

"If you really care about stopping the spread of Islam you'll work on wikipedia."

"We get articles of theirs deleted all the time. Ali Sina is covered well in the article about FaithFreedom, which we were able to keep because it's received coverage from some notable sources. Ali Sina links there. Misplaced Pages is fair, but it requires work and dedication. Isn't getting the word out about Islam worth it? The only reason this matters is because, as my name says, Google=Misplaced Pages. YOU can help shape what google has to say about Islam and you're not doing it."

"We need to find historians (Islamic studies people would be best, but any trained historian will do some good) that say bad things about Islam and Muhammad and quote them in articles. "

"I would tell you my username but one of the Muslims might try to use my advertising over here to get me blocked."

from here

"OK so we know that wikipedia can be a battleground. Here's something easy (and fun) you can do to help...

...Help the good guys and hurt the bad guys by simply reverting to the last version by a good guy. Check back every few minutes, you can use three reverts per 24 hour period, after that you will get a temporary block.

Here are the lists:

Good guys (in alphabetical order): Arrow740 Beit Or Hypnosadist Karl Meier Merzbow Proabivouac Sefringle Str1977

Bad: ALM scientist Aminz Bless sins Itaqallah Kirbytime Nielswik Striver Strothra Truthspreader"

the quotes speak for themselves, more can be seen upon further analysis of the threads. evidence proving beyond doubt that the user involved in this is User:Arrow740 is as follows:

• "Google=Misplaced Pages" was a main participant in a dispute on Muhammad's slaves as can be deduced from this post: . he says:"Muslims got the lists censored because they claimed it needed context and that their Arabic wasn't good enough" - this is a reference to the discussion between myself and Arrow740 on my talk page and on the article talk page. in particular, "'they claimed it needed context and that their Arabic wasn't good enough" refers to my comments here.
• Arrow740 shows interest in and awareness of the Faith Freedom International forums, on which Google=Misplaced Pages posted. Arrow also significantly participates on the Faith Freedom article.
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" lists a number of articles he wishes for FFI participants to blind revert on (Jan 25), naming the "good guys" and the "bad guys" (as quoted above). incidentally, these are almost all of the articles on which Arrow740 has been involved in substantial disputes, many times heavily edit warring. here are a selection of diffs provided:
  • Dhimmi:
  • Robert Spencer:
  • Islam and slavery:
  • Women in Islam:
  • Islamist terrorism:
  • Criticism of Muhammad:
  • Criticism of the Qur'an:
  • Criticism of Islam:
  • Muhammad's slaves:
  • Muhammad and the Jews:
  • Banu Qurayza:
  • Banu Qaynuqa:
  • Banu Nadir:
  • Constitution of Medina:
  • Faith Freedom International:
  • The relation between Islam and science:
  • Aisha:
  • Jihad:
  • Islam and antisemitism:
    • the most significant point here is that on a number of these articles, there have been an extremely low number of editors ever involved in them. for example, on Constitution of Medina, the activity on the article remained rather low until mid-Jan when Arrow740 made a series of objectionable edits, and that was the start of the first actual dispute on that article. as so few people were involved (and as the articles are hardly visited), or even aware of the dispute (i.e. pretty much only myself and Arrow), highlighting such an article in an off-wiki appeal becomes extremely significant. exactly the same applies to Muhammad and the Jews, where controversy only ever started during mid-Jan when Arrow740 started editing the article. the same also applies to Muhammad's slaves.
    • furthermore, the posts on FFI seem to have been made during the same period when Arrow740 was warring across several of the above articles (mid to late January), as many of the diffs provided above are similarly from around that time.
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" describes eminent historian Montgomery Watt as "a stupid Christian minister who wrote that Muhammad was divinely inspired", which correlates with the antagonism displayed against him by Arrow740. some sample diffs, among others: . in particular, the statement: "who wrote that Muhammad was divinely inspired" corresponds with this sarcastic comment: "God exists and Muhammad was his prophet. Watt says it, you cannot deny it!"
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" reveals extensive knowledge over the newly formed Criticism of Islam taskforce (of which he is a member): "Of course I know about it. The task force is for anyone who wants to improve articles discussing criticism of Islam. You see how vague that is. There can be no official group whose stated purpose is to promote an anti-Islam point of view." , and also states his frustration over how the group isn't active enough "Where do you get your information about this? The group serves no purpose. It's founder hasn't contributed in over a week. I assure you that I am already fully participating in the struggle to make wikipedia tell the truth about Islam.", a group to which Arrow has been one of the very few contributors. the quote also shows that Google=Misplaced Pages has been active and actively in disputes for a while, as can be seen by Arrow740's contribs during Jan (and this month in fact). the last point is also exemplified by the quote "Don't bother to do anything myself? As a matter of fact I spend tons of time on wikipedia almost every day doing exactly what I'm asking you to do." (i.e. extensive edit warring, as demonstrated in the diffs above)
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" holds an extremely reverential opinion of Robert Spencer, whilst understanding that he is not good enough for citation on wikipedia "In the history articles you need to quote historians, not (great) guys like Spencer. In the criticism articles you can quote the critics." this opinion stems from the numerous disputes Arrow has been involved in regarding Spencer (i.e. Talk:Criticism_of_Islam#Robert_Spencer, Talk:Dhimmi#al-Hibri). the last sentence of that extract corresponds with:
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" indicates that he has communicated in the past with relatively new user User:Matt57 - "Our paths have crossed a few times", as has Arrow740
• "Google=Misplaced Pages" states "Ali Sina is covered well in the article about FaithFreedom, which we were able to keep because it's received coverage from some notable sources. Ali Sina links there. ", indicating he was aware of the relevant AfD's related to Ali Sina (AfD, DRV) and Faith Freedom International, the last of which Arrow740 was a key participant.
• such behaviour is not out of character, as Arrow was recently found to be votestacking in an AfD.. he is also known for recruiting like-minded editors on-wiki to enforce changes on articles, example diffs among many of this nature. considering the above, it is reasonable to consider that privately contacting numerous editors sharing his viewpoint may have been similarly inappropriate:

i would appreciate administrators' opinions and any appropriate intervention. thank you.ITAQALLAH 18:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I am confused as to what difference there is between groups like this being organized and what looks to be a very organized group of editors that work together with Itaqallah who take an opposing point of view, and why Itaqallah and his friends are not also called meatpuppets? And if so is this not something that should be addressed with relation to both of them? It looks like Itaqallah and Arrow740 from the link to each of their contributions have long histories around each other and that this may be just the latest attack from one to the other. I will be open and admit that I find many of Itaqallah's edits to be less than helpful or possibly factually incorrect after reviewing the various pages he links to that he himself has edited on repeatedly.

Also, wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, is it not? If there is a serious bias problem going on, it seems one acceptable solution should be to invite people to come in and fix the offending articles. When Itaqallah links to a page that I think means there is a debate on when an article might be deleted, and says Arrow was "vote stacking" by inviting people to view it, I am unsure of whether there is any difference between Arrow sending messages on here and what would happen if people sent messages to each other privately or on another forum somewhere. There are comments on that page that if I am reading them correctly indicate Itaqallah may have been doing this.

I do not know all the right terms to describe it but I hope I have made my points and questions clear.— Preceding unsigned comment added by One Elephant went out to play... (talk • contribs)

Tsk tsk tsk. InBC 19:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't spend much time on Islam related articles, but based on the fact that this individual, whomever he or she may be, is outright asking people to POV revert war, I consider that trolling for disruption and personally I would suggest taking a fairly hard line against it. Despite how One Elephant went out to play... (talk · contribs) is trying to portray this, this was not a request for "people to come in and fix the offending articles". This is absolutely a call for individuals to show up here and create a problem complete with instructions on how to game the 3RR system.--Isotope23 19:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A déja vu. It reminds me of this back on October 2005. Shees! 18 months later? It is so clear that it consists of a systematic behaviour. Whenever someone would need help they would just go to Faithfreedom.org and gather supporters. I am not sure who is behind this but this should be fixed. -- FayssalF - 19:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It is very clear to me that it is "Arrow740". First of all, he must be in the list of "good" guys "Arrow740,Beit Or, Hypnosadist, Karl Meier, Merzbow, Proabivouac, Sefringle, Str1977". Well, I have had interaction with all of these editors and I can say with certainty that it can be only Arrow740. His editing style is unique. For example please compare "Become a wikipedian and join us in the fight!" from FFI website with this comment of Arrow here "By the way, a co-religionist of yours is being attacked. See Robert Spencer." --Aminz 21:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Aminz and I have an acrimonious relationship, and his "example" is obviously wrong. In fact I never use such gushy language as "Become a wikipedian and join us in the fight!" Arrow740 21:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Aminz must have an exceptionally good ear for language, since I cannot spot any common patterns in the two phrases above, no matter how hard I try. Beit Or 21:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Asking others to come and fix an attacked article. And of course, Arrow would be a little bit less free outside wikipedia. --Aminz 22:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

With the standard of proof set so low, one can conjure up "evidence" against any editor. Beit Or 22:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As I said above, among the "good" guys "Arrow740,Beit Or, Hypnosadist, Karl Meier, Merzbow, Proabivouac, Sefringle, Str1977", only Arrow740 has edited all the articles named by "G=W" in FFI website. In fact, this user is supposed to be very active: From FFI post:"As a matter of fact I spend tons of time on wikipedia almost every day doing exactly what I'm asking you to do. All it takes is perseverance. Some of the worst Muslim editors have been banned in the last few months. It all works out. Right now we have the upper hand and I think we might be close to critical mass over there. If you have a good secondary source (i.e. a book by a historian) then there's nothing they can do. If it's a website then they can get it censored. But in the "Criticism of" articles, the standard is different, and you can put in as much Spencer, Ibn Warraq, and Bat Ye'or as you want. "--Aminz 23:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

i don't see how the evidence presented could have been "conjured", Beit Or. i don't appreciate musings implying that it has. ITAQALLAH 23:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Aminz, that is false. Itaqallah in his zeal for the truth only copied articles I had edited, if only once. Please read my response. Arrow740 23:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

those on which you did edit less on seemed to be lower down on your priority list. i have already explained why the other two articles you listed would be typically so. ITAQALLAH 23:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Arrow is also involved in some of these articles only recently (the FFI comments are not very recent). --Aminz 23:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

absolutely. many of the articles Arrow listed below were ones where he has only recently become "heavily involved", or likely was not "heavily involved" in when appealing on FFI. ITAQALLAH 23:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• in response to the comment below that it could be any other wikipedian sharing Arrows view ("there is no reason to think it's me as opposed to another wikipedian who shares my views")
  • a) what kind of wikipedian would relate a dispute, in detail, which he wasn't even involved in? b) there aren't many other editors who insult Watt as you have. on-wiki, you called him "senile." off-wiki, you called him "stupid." in fact i don't believe i've ever seen an editor insult Watt like that. c) there aren't many other editors (almost none, in fact) who have knowledge of such articles like Constitution of Medina that they'd list it among the articles they're inviting puppets to, especially when they're revert warring at that exact same time. d) there aren't many other editors who are actually aware of the FFI forum as you were. e)yes, as you boast below, you are "one of the most active", which is exactly what G=W boasts. i could go on and on... ITAQALLAH 21:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

That's true. In fact, Arrow is the only editor here who insults Watt and holds a greatly postivie view of "Robert Spencer". --Aminz 21:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me remind you people, there is some difference between a POV and the 'ill will'. The users like Arrow740 can not be covered under the shelter of the justification of 'POV'. We are here for the betterment of human beings and not to sell the evil systematic campaigns. The most important point to note is that, its not so easy and frequent to identify a hidden employee of FFI in wikipedia. Once it is identified then it is the most right moment to take the extreme action to uproot such venoms. There are many Atheist, Muslim, Christains as well as other editors who are supporiting to take action and not loose the chance. Any learnt scholar knows where do the authors like Rober Spencer come from. Just look at the typical talking and allegation style of Rober Spencer, But alas people take that uncredible filth as a POV. In fact, it is not necessary to put some filth in every truth to make it look miserable, sometimes you have to tell the real truth no matter you like it or not and you cant hide under the umbrella of POV.VirtualEye 06:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I may have more to say in a bit, but for now: I'd like to totally disassociate myself from any list of "good" and "bad" editors. Being not a part of any army, I deeply resent any attempt to recruit me into one against my will, and feel even worse for those editors labelled here as "bad," whose edits meatpuppets are to blindly revert. Would-be meatpuppets, if you are reading this, do not follow me around and revert to my versions, for you should only bring me into disrepute as a leader of meatpuppets.Proabivouac 10:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Response to the pre-emptive response to my response

a)Anyone. b)I am not as restrained on WP as I should be, but there can be no doubt that every anti-Islam editor shares my feelings about Watt, our FFI poster included. I personally find Esposito to be even more objectionable. c)Obviously, the fact that articles were listed (on FFI but not mentioned here by you) in which I am not involved but others are proves your argument to be hollow. d)Anyone who uses a search engine about Islam comes across that site and others like it eventually, including, apparently, you. e)There are a few editors as active as me. Every such person no doubt does it for a reason. Arrow740 21:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

a)not likely in the least, especially when they list other articles which are similarly visited very little b) your ridiculing of Watt on FFI matches your comments on wiki at around the same time. c) as i said, it is totally understandable why you'd be aware of Islam in China and Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent. with the first, there was an edit war raging between Proabivouac and an IP during mid Jan when you posted. with the second, you're an "anti-Islam", Indian editor. such an article would be of prime interest to you, non? ITAQALLAH 21:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Response

That person is not me. I am not active in many of those articles and am active in many articles that are not on that list (which User:Itaqallah did not copy in full, see below). The person posting there could have been any of the other wikipedia editors with an anti-Islam POV. I am one of the most active members of that group, and it seems likely anyone undertaking such an endeavor would see what articles I have been working on, and would have seen User:Itaqallah's talk page where he and I have what he is characterizing as private conversations. I am by no means the most active editor with my POV at

• Women in Islam
• Islamist terrorism
• Criticism of Muhammad
• Criticism of Islam
• Muhammad and the Jews
• Faith Freedom International
• Aisha I believe I've edited this one once,
• Islam and antisemitism same here.

Itaqallah neglected to include here the full list he linked to, conveniently leaving out two articles I don't believe I've ever contributed to: Islam in China and Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent. The purported list also does not include articles that I am heavily involved in, such as

• Battle of Khaybar
• Islam at which itaqallah tried unsuccessfully to get me blocked on a spurious charge of 3rr violation
• Bat Ye'or another critic like Robert Spencer, but I am even more involved at her article
• Ma malakat aymanukum
• Ma malakat aymanukum and sex in the last two I am the only principle editor with my POV
• Reforms under Islam (610-661)
• Muhammad as a diplomat which I have been involved in since I began wikipedia and which I am trying to get deleted by participating in the discussion at its AfD,
• Prisoners of war in Islam
• Islam and modernity where I have been substantially involved in nasty edit wars.

In short, this poster to Faith Freedom International is not me, there is no reason to think it's me as opposed to another wikipedian who shares my views, and it could easily have been User:Itaqallah himself setting me up. I wouldn't put it past him as he's had it in for me for months, and has obliquely threatened to take an action of this kind against me before, in User:Proabivouac's now deleted RfC. Arrow740 19:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• this response is a non-sequitur. why don't you try addressing the actual evidences? please re-read my report, i said "almost all articles listed." it is entirely reasonable to assume you'd list other articles that you were aware of but had not participated upon . the other articles you list: maybe you didn't list them in the FFI thread because you weren't revert warring in them at the time? in response to new user "elephant" and yourself, indeed we have a history. i have a "history" with numerous other editors, yet they haven't been meatpuppeteering as you have. i "obliquely threatened" an RfC, so i don't know what "an action of this kind" refers to. dismissing it as a "set-up" is ridiculous, and you know too well that that's your only line of defense. ITAQALLAH 20:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have proven that none of your arguments are convincing, rightly so because it wasn't me who posted those things. Arrow740 20:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

your only retort until now has been to bluntly accuse me of fabrication, or to 'respond' to the evidences with comments that are not actually responses. ITAQALLAH 20:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you going to report me based on this suspicion as well? I'm sure you could find an appropriate noticeboard somewhere. Arrow740 20:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

And why don't you file a checkuser request for me and User:One Elephant went out to play...? He's new, it must be me in disguise, right? Arrow740 21:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

No, there's a simpler way to prove or unprove ITAQALLAH's allegations. I'd be tempted to email the moderators of FFI and ask them for your IP address, then ask for a checkuser to be filed on you and ask them to release your IP address. If they match, it's not my problem. Yuser31415 21:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I doubt users involved in the whole Arab-Jew-history of Islam quagmire are stupid enough to solicit meatpuppets. The "proof" against Arrow is quite flawed and nothing links arrow to the meat-caller.Bakaman 21:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yuser, that might work but please remember that the FFI website is a propaganda website against Islam. If that editor also contacts the director and tells him the story, he *might* give us some random IP. But it of course worth trying. --Aminz 21:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A possibility of impersonation should not be discounted, too. Beit Or 21:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

In this case, we will have the IP. It seems to me to be very unlikely, e.g. see this comment on FFI: "If you google something, you get the wikipedia article. Please become a wikipedian, find good sources for information about Islam, and put it into wikipedia. If anyone has "sword of the prophet," please quote extensively from it and put it into the Muhammad and Islam articles. Also the "Criticism of Islam," "Criticism of Muhammad," and "Criticism of the Quran" articles don't say much about Muhammad's violence. Can someone put Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Ibn Warraq and any other notable critic into those articles?! There is a little Spencer in the Criticism of the Quran article. Please do this!! There's nothing more effective you can do than to make wikipedia tell the truth about Islam! So when people google about Islam they'll find out the truth!"--Aminz 21:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, so what? Beit Or 21:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Arrow has written most of "war-and-violence" section in Criticism of Qur'an mostly using Spencer. --Aminz 21:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

actually, on closer observation, his listing of critics as G=W corresponds with . ITAQALLAH 21:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

*Nice* observation. --Aminz 21:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This is getting increasingly ridiculous. Aminz, why would I advertise elsewhere asking others to do what I have proven myself to be happy to do? And itaqallah, this is, again, not proof of anything. You have taken bits and pieces of this FFI poster and bits and pieces of my posts and tried to fit them together. It is clear that they do not. Arrow740 21:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• "why would I advertise elsewhere asking others to do what I have proven myself to be happy to do" ? you mean revert war..? seemingly not, as you have replicated such "recruiting" on-wiki as well as off. yet again, i see similarities with your comment above and:"Don't bother to do anything myself? As a matter of fact I spend tons of time on wikipedia almost every day doing exactly what I'm asking you to do." ITAQALLAH 22:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It would behoove you to read before responding. Regarding the language, this:

Please do this!! There's nothing more effective you can do than to make wikipedia tell the truth about Islam! So when people google about Islam they'll find out the truth!

is clearly not me. Arrow740 22:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

don't ask me why you wrote like that. there are plenty of reasons. ITAQALLAH 22:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Arrrow740 is right. For one thing, I don't remember him ever using exclamation marks. His style is much more restrained. Beit Or 22:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

try these, Beit Or. and that was after one minute of searching. ITAQALLAH 22:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

When I am trying drive a point home to an obstinate editor, I will occasionally indulge in an exclamation mark. The fact remains that the two of us have different styles. Arrow740 23:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

While there is some circumstantial evidence here, there is no smoking gun per se and I'd hesitate to block anyone based on this at this time. However, the FFI post is serious enough that I'd suggest acting agressively against revert wars on these articles. WP:AGF on new editors, but I don't take kindly to individuals who are just here to disrupt the 'pedia whatever their POV is. If somone shows up and starts reverting to earlier versions they should be warned and then blocked if they do it again. 3RR allows for blocks before they hit 4 edits and I will call "spade if I see disruptive edits.--Isotope23 21:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I find it a bit ironic that User:Arrow740 mentions the Reforms under Islam (610-661) article. I actually witnessed what User:Itaqallah is mentioning here myself back in mid November. I even mentioned how an editor didn't need to be blocked and still rely upon sockpuppets (and now that I think about it meatpuppets). (→Netscott) 22:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

On any of these pages, I think we should immediately block for disruption anyone who shows up and reverts. We really need to discourage this kind of thing. I just saw a similar but less overt example on the 9/11 talk page: 9/11 Research's Guide to Misplaced Pages on 9/11. Tom Harrison 22:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. Arrow740 22:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. Such behavior is as common in this space as it is intolerable.Proabivouac 22:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure, but all of that has nothing to do with Arrow740. Beit Or 22:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I see we have about 250 links to faithfreedom.org. I bet we could get by with a good deal fewer, especially in article space. I'm not much inclined to use them for anything that we can get elsewhere. Tom Harrison 22:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to know why, in amongst all of his lengthy accusations, User:Itaqallah refers to me as an "editor sharing his (Arrow740's) viewpoint", and states that it would be therefore inappropriate for Arrow740 to e-mail me? On what basis does Itaqallah add this claim to his lengthy and growing pile of other claims? Exactly what "viewpoint" is it that Arrow740 and I share? Jayjg 22:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

you are correct. amongst the diffs, that one shouldn't be there. i have rectified that accordingly. ITAQALLAH 22:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

What a horrible and systemtic wretched work of Arrow740 and company. That is the same reason I had been emphasizing that such sick editors must be working for FFI. And that is revealed now. Nobody can deny except few people like 'Jayjg'. Have a look at the Jayjg's Contributions. Dozens of edits in each day, all revolving around Zionism and Islam-hatered. He seems to be mate of Arrow740 that is why he is blindly supprting. Are you people paid the part time also? to cunningly work for evil researchwork?

Misplaced Pages will be better off by removing such wound creating hidden worms from its body. The moment you bow towards such evil editors , the moment you losed golden chance to identify. VirtualEye 06:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have just posted a final warning for VirtualEye for the avoid violation of WP:NPA. --BozMo talk 19:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

VirtualEye, your comment uses a rather extreme language. Also, while I have some disagreements with Jayjg. I believe we both have our own point of view and each think our view is correct. I certainly disagree with classifying Jayjg as an "Islam-hater". --Aminz 07:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Aminz. I'd also like to point out that opposition to Antisemitism and/or support for Israel, though you (VirtualEye) might disagree with it, is not equivalent to hatred of, or even opposition to, Islam.Proabivouac 11:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The "Andrew Chumbley " post.

Its to report a poster who is making unfounded allegations against me. The poster Lulubyrd asserts that i have "vandalised" posts pertaining to the Children of Artemis thread and the Lon Milo DuQuette thread has well. I have not engaged in vandalism of any sort. I had removed the accusations but Lulubyrd seems to have an axe to grind. I would appreciate some moderation/mediation on this matter. Thanks.--Redblossom 21:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

• I can't see any record of Lulubyrd ever editing your talk page. Diffs? —Dark•Shikari 22:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dark Shikari. What it is is that Lulubyrd has made an accusation in the discussion section of the Chumbley post. The accusation "suggests" that i am repsonsible for "vandalism" on the Children of Artemis post and the Lon Milo Duquette post. I have nothing whatsoever to do with this so called vandalism. The Ip adresses are recorded anyway. So i deleted the accusation but the poster Lulubyrd insists on keeping this in, to the detriment of the post. I would appreciate a ruling/deletion eitherway on this.Its in the discussion section under the sub thread "Tedious attention Seeking Stuff"--Redblossom 14:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Disturbing Stuff going on at White people

I recently saw a 'shouting' post about stuff at White people. I thought it was just some oversensitive or anti-White user complaining. But I posted something at White people, and got a very disturbing response :

It is OR to use those pictures as examples of white people unless reliable sources explicitly indicate that the pictured people are indeed white. The Behnam 20:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The Nordic man is the most exemplary specimen of the white race who passes all definitions of white. As early as 1914, Madison Grant considered the Nordic to be the "white man par excellence".The Passing of the Great Race Modern anthropologist Arthur Kemp also realizes that the Nordic has retained racial purity over the Southern European who has miscegenated with the Arabic stock.white people Even dictionary definitions claim that a white person is a light colored person.dictionary definition of white The Nordic people as a whole are the lightest people on the planet.skin color charts Today, Hispanics in the US and Southern Europeans in Australia are not seen as white people, but Nordics are always seen as white people. Every conception of white people agrees that the Nordic is white. The Spaniard and the Italian cannot stand up to such test; they are the questionable ones.--Tea 22:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Um, you still can't put things together like that. Just because so-and-so says Nordic peoples are "exemplary" whites, and you believe these people to be Nordics, doesn't mean you can advance (on WP) that these people are whites. The source itself must say that those people are whites. The Behnam 00:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that I would have to verify that he was a real Nordic by citation? If I understand your argument correctly, then there can't be any exemplary pictures classified by a Wikipedian; they would have to be classified by an outside source. If it really comes down to a strict citation, I feel we would have to include Arthur Kemp's Nordic, Alpine and Mediterranean grayscale pictures found here.white people--Tea 03:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Miscegenation? White man par excellence? It just keeps getting creepier. I'm seeing geniune Nazi views now, with division of white people into Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean. Also his main source is some sort of white supremacist site.

What should I do? The Behnam 00:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Claiming that you can't have a picture of someone on this article because there's no source explicitly stating that the person is white (are you going to next ask for a source explicitly stating the picture is of that person?) seems WP:POINTy. Even though he's stating potentially disturbing racialist views (he hasn't claimed that any race is superior or inferior to any other though), you seem a bit disingenuous too from these comments - can you explain in more detail how this debate started? --Random832(tc) 03:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I was just reading the article, and I didn't understand how the editors chose who the pictured whites are, it seemed kind of arbitrary. Then I realized that it doesn't make sense to choose randomly, since there are no sources indicating that those people are white. In any case, the reason I came here is because of the racist views that he apparently holds and uses in editing the page. He is associating the supposed "excellence" of the "Nordic" race to "purity." He describes some groups as "miscegenations," which usually carries a negative connotation. Adherence to the Nordic-Alpine-Mediterranean model is essentially racism, for the system considers (1) white people best (2)Nordic best white people (3)then Mediterranean (3) last Alpine. Also, the fact that he is using a white supremacist source (just read around that site it is very obviously a white supremacist site) as an authority is disturbing. I may have to clear out the article of all information taken from such a biased and unreliable source that is displayed as authoritative fact. The Behnam 03:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-01-07 Singapore Airlines

I am little concerned by developments in this case. I have taken a break from discussing this topic because of attempts to bait me into attacking the other users by Vsion and Huaiwei. These 2 users have engaged in the discussion, but have failed to provide any good reason for not accepting the edits suggested. Recently, Vsion gave an example of Huaiwei's previous editting style , which coupled with his latest hint of some geo-political reason behind his refusal to accept the compromise suggested, seem to suggest that Vsion and Huaiwei are the recognised owners of the page and that I should back off. Since in effect Vsion's argument is that the edits are unacceptable because they go against whatever political reason said user is hinting that he/she holds with Huaiwei. In effect, the argument is that the edits are unacceptable because they would make the article NPOV.

• In summary, I would like as many editors and admins to have a look at the argument and make comment, because the current protracted non-discussion is a waste of time when invested users can so adversely affect the collegial atmosphere of the wiki. I would also like to know what action can or should be taken, because I still think the proposed edits should be made.--Shakujo 02:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I find Shakujo's comment unnecesarily inflammataory and goes against principles of assuming good faith in others. Constant accusations of "article ownership", "colluded attempts to attack others", even "political edits" are unsupported, unfounded, unjustified, and completely unhelpful to mediation efforts. May I voice my concern over what appears to be individuals who take it upon themselves to "test the waters" and insist on initiating certain actions in articles just to see for themselves if the purported "article owners" are indeed as obstinate as allerged by others.--Huaiwei 15:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

HanzoHattori (personal attacks)

HanzoHattori (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has continued to engage in personal attacks, even after five warnings by five different editors. Attacks:

• calling other editors "insane"
• calling other editors "stupid"
• calling other editors "retarded" or "retards"

Previous WP:NPA warnings:

• First warning, 11 August 2006
• Second warning, 23 September 2006
• Third warning, 16 November 2006
• Fourth warning, 25 November 2006 ("final warning")
• Fifth warning, 23 January 2007 (another "final warning")

Enough already. —Psychonaut 03:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Time to show we mean what WP:CIV sais. I recommend a 72h block (based on the fact that the last time the user was blocked for 48h) to shove our message through.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  04:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, but keep in mind that blocks aren't supposed to be punitive. —Psychonaut 04:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

He's had plenty of warning. Blocked for 1 week (this is his third block). ⇒ SWATJester 04:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

One week seems a bit excessive, in particular since his past blocks were not for personal attacks (not that it wouldn't have been appropriate to block him for personal attacks previously, however, he wasn't). He also should be notified as to the specific reason for his block (that is, notified of this discussion, which he does not appear to have known about). _└  / _talk  18:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not punitive as I have every reason to believe it will continue without a block. I recommend between 1 and 3 days, but I cannot bring myself to disagree with a week. InBC 18:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I blocked for a week as an extension of the first two blocks. I view it as a preventative thing: he's been blocked 3 times now, and still hasn't learned to be civil and not engage in personal attacks. Now, don't get me wrong, if there's some sort of sign this sort of thing won't continue there's no problem with lifting it early. But there's no evidence that it will. Osgoodelawyer, the last time you and I got together was for Hanzo's personal attacks. Now, I realize that's not why he was blocked before, but it does meant that you and I BOTH have warned him about them before, and the extent of the personal attacks warrented a block IMHO. As for the reasoning, I gave it to him on his talk page, "personal attacks". I was under the impression he was aware of this discussion, that's why I didn't include a specific diff, but the knell was the "Are you stupid?" edit summaries.

My apologies Ozgoodelawyer, I completely forgot that you were involved in mediation with Hanzo, I definitely should have gotten in touch with you first. ⇒ SWATJester 21:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Checkuser attention needed

If any users with Checkuser access are online, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Trebor Rowntree, Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for adminship/Trebor Rowntree, and Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Trebor Rowntree. Newyorkbrad 03:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Has now been addressed by Dmcdevit, thanks. Newyorkbrad 04:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Restoring banned user Nkras' edits in userspace?

Rbj has now restored edits to his talk a couple of times which were made by Nkras . Nkras was community banned for disruption and threats, and since then has been using anonymous socks to continue his behavior. I really don't want to edit war in someone's userspace, but I also don't believe that it's appropriate to leave these comments. In addition to being from a banned user, most, if not all, of the restored comments are threatening and inflammatory. Seraphimblade 04:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I've already repeatedly asked Rbj not to do precisely this. He's been restoring meatpuppetry threats by Nkras on talk:marriage, too. Nishkid talked to him about it. I don't understand what point he's trying to make, but he's effectively taking responsibility for Nkras's legal threats now. — coelacan talk — 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If Rbj wants to "take ownership" of the comments then Rbj takes ownership of the consequences thereof. Rbj is blocked indefinitely whilst legal threats are outstanding. --bainer (talk) 05:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The intent to pursue legal action has been withdrawn. Coelacan, however, had better clean up her act on her user space, and quickly. An Admin should investigate her and her friends' violation of WP:NPA. 63.228.40.172 00:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

And this would be Nkras, posting after his ban and laughing at the community some more. Jeffpw 00:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Technical Anomalies of the Third Kind

I'm having some peculiar technical difficulties, namely, it appears that when I'm logged in, I'm not logged entirely. That is to say, when I try to edit September 11 attacks (article/talk page) I'm suddenly logged out. Really not sure what the cause of this, but it is puzzling… Could someone kindly look into this, since I cannot log to the mentioned talk page at all. Thank you. Lovelight 05:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, thank goodness it isn't just in my head. You can do the CTRL-refresh trick in firefox to reload the page and it will recognize your login on whatever page is giving you fits. No idea what is causing it. Kuru 05:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep, been noticing that as well... other than an appearance of being logged out I've not been affected. (→Netscott) 05:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps one of the newer revisions to the software introduced a bug. InBC 12:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Undergarment article

The user Duke53 has made it his personal mission to add non-notable photographs to anything related to LDS articles. The most recent (that I know of) is a section in Undergarments. The photograph that he added, and insists on keeping in there, is not notable and should be removed. On top of that, I question his "neutral" point of view on the article, as his editing history is very heavy with LDS articles (and adding his garment image any chance he gets). Is there anything that can be done about this? Phefner 05:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you want Dispute Resolution, because you don't have a problem that requires admin intervention. I would suggest you simply drop it, though, because Mormon temple garments are a topic of significant interest (particularly to non-Mormons who may be interested in using Misplaced Pages to learn more about the religion) and the photograph is certainly not "non-notable" by any stretch. — coelacan talk — 06:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is a content dispute not a case requiring administrator intervention. Cla68 06:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Requesting help from another admin

A few days ago I blocked User:Chunghwa Republic (talk · contribs) on what I percieved to be strong evidence for being a sockpuppet of User:Nationalist, currently under a 1 month block for repeated sockpuppet usage. User:Chunghwa Republic displayed several apparent similarities in editing patters with past confirmed Nationalist sockpuppets (see Chunghwa Republic contribs Taiwan53 contribs), registered shortly after the last Nationalist sock was blocked, and demonstrated an apparent farmiliarity with Misplaced Pages processes, including CheckUser. Today, a CheckUser request for Chunghwa Republic returned negative for IP similarities with Nationalist or past socks. However, It is worth noting that at least one other confirmed Nationalist sock also responded to warnings by demanding a CheckUser, suggesting that Nationalist may be making use of other IP blocs. I am requesting that an uninvolved admin review User:Chunghwa Republic's unblock request in the interest of fairness. Thanks. -Loren 06:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I've declined the unblock in endorsement of your block rationale. Sandstein 21:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Avienus' abusive sockpuppetry

I'm placing this here because an independent CheckUser uncovered a bunch of abusive sockpuppets being used for reverting in tandem and for carrying on multiple nationalist edit wars on various new accounts to escape detection. The following users are confirmed to be the same person:

• Avienus (talk · contribs)
• Domitius (talk · contribs)
• LieutenantBoom (talk · contribs)
• Dirak (talk · contribs)
• Noli turbare circulos meos (talk · contribs)
• Thulium (talk · contribs)

Can an administrator please take a look? Thanks. Dmcdevit·t 06:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This is a user who has long had a weird tendency to switch account names very often. I've never been able to find out exactly why he does it, but he is otherwise a trusted wikipedian in good standing. Fellow editors in the areas he works in know him well enough that they usually recognise him easily in each new incarnation, so in most cases there's really no issue of abusive sockpuppetry. I'd have expected that he'd be clever enough not to let his various incarnations cross paths in illegitimate ways; I'll have to check whether he did with any of these. But we should ask him to stick to a single stable account in the future. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Guettarda

I have asked this user to stop posting on my talk page and he is refusing to comply. --Ideogram 07:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I asked Ideogram to strike a statement s/he made about me which cast me in a negative light, undeservedly. S/he replied with insults, and then with threats. All I have asked is that s/he strike the comments. I am just trying to discuss things in a polite, civil manner. I have no idea how to communicate with her/him other than via her/his talk page. Anyway, I give up. It's definitely time for bed. Guettarda 07:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

So - how does one deal with a person who would rather break the three-revert rule (albeit on a user talk page) and use personally-directed insults than have a civil, adult discussion of their behaviour? Guettarda 15:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverting your own user-page is generally held as an exception to 3RR, one that outside users do not similarly enjoy. Thereby, edit warring with a user on their talk page can indeed result in you getting blocked without any 3RR violation of the user in question. If you have a serious concern with a particular editor, a request for comment is a more appropriate avenue to pursue it. If your concern falls short of a RfC, you might consider disengagement instead of trying to force the issue on a user talk page. Really, that's pretty much a bad option because it's likely to prove unfruitful and harmful to yourself. Bitnine 16:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It isn't a matter of edit warring - I just tried to continue the conversation and was not reverting. The fact that it was her/his user talk page is the reason why it isn't an actionable violation, but it still shows contempt for policy, and far more importantly, shows utter unwillingness to attempt to resolve the issue . The user's edits appear to be well-poisoning in a dispute in which the user appears to have been acting as a "mediator"; thus, I think the comment should be struck. If I'm wrong, convince me I am wrong, don't escalate to insults and threats. With regards to disengagement - it's part of a DR filing against me, so her/his characterising me as "unwilling" to proceed (when I was unaware of the filing) isn't something from which I can disengage. An RFC requires two people who have had the same problem with the user, so it isn't an option. Filing a request for informal mediation via the medcab is a waste of time, in my experience, since almost every "mediator" I have dealt with there seems clueless about policy..not to mention the user is active in the medcab (perhaps this is part of what is endemically wrong with the medcab - "mediators" who can't discuss differences in a civil manner). I didn't raise it here, but I am interested in resolving this issue. Guettarda 16:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Ideogram, I have a suggestion for you: to stop the problem, try apologising for being rude and provocative to Guettarda. Isn't that what mediators are all about? Guy (Help!) 22:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Disruptive IP user

125.164.184.109 has been doing some annoying edits that need to be fixed and has been adding Category:Fictional characters with the power to manipulate sound to various animals and insects (including to others such as Wile E. Coyote, who never does such a thing) and other animals that exist in real life. This IP user has already been blocked earlier today for wrongfully changing another category that is in use to another name that doesn't exist. I request that a bot revert some of this disruptive user's edits. And might I also add that I have tagged it as a sockpuppet of another IP user that has added some unconstructive edits in the past. Perhaps another soft block and another warning to this user should be added. Also, don't forget to have a bot revert all of his/hers unconstructive edits. Just leave some of the one's that appear constructive as they are. Power level (Dragon Ball) 07:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Is there anyone here that can help out? This disruptive user even created fake categories... Power level (Dragon Ball) 08:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The IP was blocked by El_C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 12:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Holocaust Denier Vandalized Holocaust Article !

Please ban this Holocaust Denier, user Dasreich12.

He replaced Holocaust page with words "IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!", see here http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=The_Holocaust&diff=109488779&oldid=109488698 . This is disgusting example of vandalism and continued disgusting Holocaust denial.

I am pissed off, so I will let you deal with this user. Thanks. Bosniak 08:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - I had reverted one of that editor's other vandalism edits and was keeping an eye on them and saw that they were banned by an admin 1 minute after the edit on The Holocaust, at 05:26, 20 February 2007. Thanks. --EarthPerson 08:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it is taken care of.--MONGO 08:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Pages loading slowly in Internet Explorer

For the last 24 hours Misplaced Pages pages have been slow in loading and rendering when using Internet Explorer for Macintosh.

Pages would load maybe 5k of data and "park" for a few minutes before finally rendering.

I've seen no noticable change in the look of pages that would explain this new behaviour. What's going on?

Franny Wentzel 08:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The technical village pump is probably a better place to ask this sort of question. --ais523 09:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• I noticed such behavior when my hard drive is filled with temporary internet files. Perhaps yours needs a cleaning too. - Mgm| 09:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Use SeaMonkey for Mac. Frutti di Mare 13:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Err... Why are you using a very old browser like that anyway? If your computer is that old, take a look at any of the others that are available but Microsoft stopped supporting that browser a long while ago, and it renders a significant part of the web incorrectly.-Localzuk 20:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• • • Unfortunatly the "other" browsers available are even worse than MSIE. The problem only showed up a couple days ago and rendering isn't so much the problem as the long delay in getting Wiki pages.Franny Wentzel 02:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

List of Armenians

User VCinema keeps on removing a name from the list because he dislikes him he has removed it more than 10 times these past weeks simply because he dislikes the musician. , the user has been warned but keeps on going any solutions or suggestions also users have tried to talk to him doesn't work. Artaxiad 10:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I indef-blocked VCinema on the basis of his contribs, which include a lot of edit-warring, page-blanking, and this insult. I see few productive edits and no willingness to try to conform to our policies. | Mr. Darcy talk 16:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Editor defamed Admin - refuses to retract

The following discussion is an archived discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I posted to user CWC's talk page twice asking him to document or retract his claim that Admin JzG called user DeanHinnen a "neo-Nazi". (He never called him a "neo-Nazi", I believe the term he used was "far-right") This was on the talk page of a formal Wiki proceeding, that may be read and referred to for YEARS. (or not)

• • Calling Dean Hinnen a neo-Nazi is improper. I've asked JzG to consider an apology. CWC(talk) 19:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC) ------- link (note he even wrote that in the edit summary) --------

He deleted my request as 'trolling'. Twice. At least where I live, the term "neo-Nazi" is pretty damned strong language, and I would not use it, or accuse somone of using to describe another person without proof and great care. IMO, this defamation of a valued Admin needs to be removed, (the edit itself removed from history as he even used the edit summary to repeat his baseless allegations) and the editor consoled about making this sort baseless allegation, and possibly about deleting my good faith efforts to rectify his faux pas, as well. - FAAFA 10:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Didn't we have an arrangement that all these people should be banned from making complaints against each other here on ANI? Can somebody enforce that now please? Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we made that decision. InBC 12:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I was looking for the PAIN noticeboard and couldn't find it! Where'd you guys move it? ;-) - FAAFA 10:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Guy is a big boy, and can take care of himself. If a person wants to make inflammatory and false charges on a arbitration page where the arbitrators are guaranteed to see it, that's his own problem. Thatcher131 12:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Unless there is a better place to report personal attacks(an please tell me if there is), then why would we discourage people from posting them here? InBC 12:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd suggest WP:WQA, but maybe there's an even better place. Bi 12:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• The best place for posting false or unsourced attacks is /dev/null (by which I mean CWC's report, of course). Making personal attacks in a personal attack report is a violation of WP:KETTLE and should be dealt with by WP:TROUTwhacking. >Radiant< 12:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Serious personal attack situations can be brought here when necessary (i.e., not whenever there is a stray snide word that would have been better left unsaid, but when they start to damage the editing environment). In this case, as noted, there is a pending arbitration case which complicates matters. For the record, I've followed the dispute over the past several days (I'm clerking the arbitration case), and I do not recall the term "neo-Nazi" having been used. Newyorkbrad 13:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't, until CWC used it. Demands for retraction from FAAFA are, I'd suggest, pretty much guaranteed to inflame the situation. Me, I laughed at the silliness of it. In an RFAR marked by family sized portions of idiocy, that was just a nonsense canapé. If CWC wants to drop an "oops, sorry" then I'll give full credit for that, but I'm not about to demand pistols at dawn for a Godwin's Law violation. Guy (Help!) 15:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

"Demands for retraction from FAAFA are, I'd suggest, pretty much guaranteed to inflame the situation." Ya think? Damn! I had no idea! I shoulda considered that before I opened my big mouth! (or maybe CWC shoulda just retracted the false smear after the first, or second time I politely asked him to ;-) - FAAFA 15:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate the sentiments, FAAFA, but as stated above I am big and ugly enough to fight my own corner here, and there is no realistic chance that CWC would accept that you are acting as honest broker in this case. Better, under the circumstances, to simply point it out to me and leave well alone, no? Guy (Help!) 16:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for letting me know about this discussion — not!.

The term "far right" has different meanings in different countries. In America, it means Neo-Nazis and similar types. Guy, a Briton, has now clearly stated that he did not mean the term in the way in which a knowledgeable American would understand it. I react negatively when "middle-distance righties" are called far right, because it leads people to underestimate how nasty and dangerous the far right can be. It's a sore point with me. Guy says he wasn't really calling Dino "far right" in the American sense. End of story? (More details here if anyone really wants them.) Cheers, CWC(talk) 17:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Huh? "Far Right" = "Neo-Nazi" in America? I guess I never got that memo...--Isotope23 17:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

And here I thought Dick Cheney and other neo-cons were "far right". Corvus cornix 19:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of "Neo-Nazi" and "far right" used as synonyms. Ever. Leebo 19:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

As this illustrates, "far right" and "neo-con", like "liberal", are simply vague pejoratives in common discourse. While I appreciate CWC's point, that it's useful to recognize the distinction between, say, Cheney and the guys writing fifty-page screeds on why a yellow border on the flag means you don't have to pay income tax, it's not a distinction usually respected in the US, to the best of my knowledge. Jumping on Guy and yelling "admin abuse!" for failing to respect a distinction that 99% of *everyone* fails to respect strikes me as, frankly, unconstructive. Choess 21:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• CWC has retracted, more or less; Guy doesn't care; and it really has nothing to do with the arbitration case. I think we're done here. Thatcher131 22:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Disruptive and POV-pushing edits by Bridge & Tunnel

Bridge & Tunnel has been making disruptive edits to several articles (Colby College, Frank R. Wallace, Integrated Management Associates, List of University of Iowa people, Yasuhiko Kimura), where these edits try to push the POV of Neo-Tech. When told that his sources are unreliable and his edits are against Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines, he simply brushed off people's explanations with a generic "That doesn't make any sense". See Talk:Frank R. Wallace#Notability? and Special:Contributions/Bridge & Tunnel.

Please block this user, at least temporarily. Thank you. Bi 11:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Maverick423 (talk · contribs) and fair-use images in userspace

This user, Maverick423 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), has continually reverted removals of fair-use images from his userpage, claiming that I've "vandalised" his page by doing so. He's also charged on User talk:Hurricanehink that this only started after he "joined project", whcih seems to imply we're targetting him. Some admin help would be appreciated. – Chacor 14:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Update: this little rant seems to suggest he's quitting Misplaced Pages because we're not allowing him fair-use images in userspace. In my own opinion, we don't need people like this on the project, since they could easily get the Foundation sued. RightToVanish? – Chacor 15:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • We apparently "got on . – Chacor 15:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• • • While the situation appears to be stable at the moment, and if he is leaving temporarily or for good that may be part of why. But I have added a note to his user page pointing him to an alternative for the anime images at least. We'll see how things develope from here. - TexasAndroid 15:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Accumulating evidence for off-Wiki vendetta

A couple of talk show hosts recently began a campaign of tendentious editing and POV pushing in global warming related articles. I quickly began to suspect that they were not contributing in good faith but were provoking editors in order to get material for their talk show. (I kept these thoughts to myself in the spirit of WP:AGF.) And sure enough, they're now asking others for "evidence" to add to their talk show blog. WP:POINT would appear relevant as well. At what point does something like this cross the line? Raymond Arritt 16:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I raised the issue of these editors once before see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive198#Personal_attacks. I think the actions particularly naming editors on another site is absolutely prohibited by Misplaced Pages:Harassment. There are a series of aggressive comments on talk pages and personal attacks to go with it. They are adding nothing, wasting a lot of time and creating a bad atmosphere. --BozMo talk 18:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User:NuclearUmpf

From my Talk:

MONGO is being harassed regarding the ED speculation regarding his employer is again. The offending edit is here. The request that the edit be retracted is here. The hostage-holding (deny where you work or I will not remove my speculation about where you work) is here. The offending user is under arbcom sanction, as I suspect you already know. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I checked the edits and agree entirely: NuclearUmpf's behaviour is both calculated and completely unacceptable. This is on top of ArbCom sanctions, an article ban for disruption, and numerous blocks for violating ArbCom sanctions. I have blocked NuclearUmpf while we discuss what should be done. Guy (Help!) 16:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Prophetic words from Zer0faults: beware the passive agressive, many wrongs, many apologies. Thatcher131 16:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't really get that. But I do get that Nuclear is trolling MONGO, and I think we've seen enough of MONGO being trolled for one lifetime. Guy (Help!) 16:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I asked him to remove it and he chose to play games. My comments made here are factual.--MONGO 16:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think Nuclear is playing passive aggressive games. (Who me? Was I not supposed to say that?) (Hence the reference to his comment about similar tactics by another user.) I find it hard to believe that Nuclear was unaware of trolling by Cplot et al. claiming that MONGO should not edit certain articles due to his place of employment. Therefore (and also because of the "Who me? attitude in followup to MONGO's removal request) I think the reference was deliberate and calculated. Thatcher131 16:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

No doubts on that score. Definitely calculated. The degree of evil is uncertain, but it scores an easy ten on the troll-o-meter. Guy (Help!) 20:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Considering how many times his name has shown up on WP:AE and/or request for clarification at WP:RfAr, I'm really wondering if Zer0's personality is condusive with the effort to build an encylopedia. I'm not sure this can be handled at the community level, so perhaps it is time to take it back up to ArbComm with the hope of final action. His statement of deny it and I'll remove it is beyond acceptable behavior as regardless of where or for whom Mongo works, it shouldn't need to be publicly disclosed and even if disclosed in the past does not need to be repeated if he does not wish to advertise it now. --StuffOfInterest 16:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Harassment and Trollish behaviour. Zer0faults commits a big mistake by saying it is not about privacy while asking MONGO to confirm a private issue!. Then he asks us to AGF! -- FayssalF - 17:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think this message could be considered the final nail in the coffin. He pretty much states he will now use sock puppet accounts to harass other users. I won't even go into the derogatory. --StuffOfInterest 17:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages as a personal messaging service

I think this is the right place to say this... The other day I found a group of users who were using wikipedia solely for personal messages. I warned all of them, and when they continued two of them were blocked by an admin. Jrsas07's user page is apparently still being used like that, so I just wanted to bring that to your attention. Thanks!--TheAlphaWolf 16:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I am going to SP the talk page to at least force them to sign in to do this. --rogerd 17:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC) I thought better of it. I just removed everything but your warning. --rogerd 17:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Any other users? -- FayssalF - 17:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, other users (User Talk:Bobbyj221, ‎User Talk:ILOVETRAMPOLINE, User Talk:Lunadabay, User Talk:Waterpolobob11) were using wikipedia in the same manner, but they have stopped (and the other two were blocked). I'm watching their pages so I'll post it here if any more continue. As an aside, an anonymous user which I assume was user Lunadabay asked if it was possible to delete his/her account or talk page. I told him/her it might be possible to delete the user talk page, but not the account... but to contact an administrator. --TheAlphaWolf 20:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Indef block of NuclearUmpf/Zerofaults

I've just extended NuclearUmpf/Zer0fault's existing block to indefinite following this edit in which he promises to create an account to "harass the gang of fags" (presumably editors with which he has had conflict). Just a heads up in case anyone would like to review the situation and advise differently. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 17:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Sounds good to me. With his self-inflicted shot I don't see any reason to take this up to ArbComm now. --StuffOfInterest 17:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• Incidentally, Guy's earlier block was indefinite. -- Steel 17:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Whoops! Ah well, I suppose 2*indef works out about the same in the end. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 17:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I actually like how your second block provides a link to exactly what got him blocked. --StuffOfInterest 18:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• An indefinite block seems like the only option. He's been a net negative to the project for quite some time. ChazBeckett 17:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• Sigh. Endorse reluctantly. As Chaz says, net negative. :/ – Chacor 17:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. He has made similar comments several times in the past, and has allowed himself to be talked back from the brink. He needs to cool down and realize that even if some of the past reports against him were poorly founded, this incident was entirely self-inflicted. Before imposing a full ban, let's see if he can walk himself back again, or see if he wants to file a full new arbitration case to examine his charges of "scarlet lettering". Thatcher131 17:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • How does the project benefit by allowing him to edit? (These are serious questions, I'm not asking rhetorically) Are his contributions so valuable that the project would be better off continuing to endure his unacceptable behavior? How many chances should a user get before we say "Thanks, but we've had enough. Please leave now."? I just think that we often act as though every editor is so incredibly essential that we should attempt to "rehabiliate" even the most obvious disruptors. This isn't an isolated incident and dispute resolution has failed multiple times. Don't you think it's time to cut bait? ChazBeckett 17:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Replying to Thatcher, I'm cautiously in favour of allowing an unblock at some point, the only reason I blocked indef was because I didn't want to set a specific time. We need to decide what to do, and if that's refer back to ArbCom then I'm happy with that. The trolling needs to stop permanently, though. Guy (Help!) 17:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• I think an indefinite block is about right, unfortunately. I sort of like Nuclear, and I would love to see him commit to editing articles rather than provoking more disputes, but to date, he has been some kind of weird troll Turing test -- I don't actually think he's a troll, but his pattern of (1) provocation, (2) "who me?", (3) calm phase, (4) repeat is sufficiently indistinguishable from trolling to make his presense counterproductive unless he finds a way to chill, IMHO. TheronJ 17:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• On the fence. As involved party, my opinion is worthless, but all I wanted him to do was adjust his comment so it wasn't so quasi-harassing. His last comment indicated to me he knows he has been disruptive and there does come a point that AGF is futile.--MONGO 17:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• NuclearUmpf's behavior last Thursday, in regards to the Larry Silverstein article was entirely rude, lacked good faith, and seems typical of this users tendentious behavior. The day before, he left me a talk page message, requesting clarification as to why I reverted his edits. When I came on Misplaced Pages again, I replied, saying that I will answer on the article talk page. And, I answer on the article talk page. Nuclear then replies, "Please stop following my edits. Thank you." There were a couple more exchanges and then I just dropped it because I generally ignore rudeness and find such exchanges entirely counter-productive. Anyway, I have been editing the article in question for over a year, and perhaps more than anyone else. Nuclear's first edit to the page was two days prior. So, who was following who? From this interaction and others with Nuclear, I find him counterproductive to our goals. This latest incident is the final straw. It's unlikely that Nuclear will change his ways. --Aude (talk) 17:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• I support the block. He is no longer interested in writing an encyclopedia. NuclearUmpf has long since done little but spew invective, demand everyone assume good faith, and waste people's time. I have no desire to wade through six weeks of who-hit-john arbitration. Tom Harrison 17:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• Support. Despite the good intentions of many users who tried to work with him in good faith, Zer0 has continued to engage in this abusive conduct for a long time with unrepentant and unflagging zeal. Observations about how he has done this in the past and 'allowed himself to be talked back from the brink' should show just how long the abuses by this user have been tolerated to the direct detriment of WP. The unwillingness to abide by his ArbCom probation, numerous personal attacks (homophobic and otherwise), disclosures of users' personal information, tendentious editing, sockpuppetry and cabal accusations Zer0 has leveled against other users are unacceptable and admins are the ones we trust to act in order to stop such conduct and protect the good faith of the community. As it is, we'll be having to stay on the lookout for anons or new socks that he creates to conduct the 'harassment' he promised. Enough, already. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 17:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• I always support an indef block whenever a user commits h/self to provoke and harass many users. -- FayssalF - 17:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• On the fence. No reason to put up with it anymore, but on the other hand it's better to know who he is rather than new editor. --Tbeatty 17:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• That is very much too bad.  :-( --BenBurch 18:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• support, with regret. Wow, lots of opinions. ++Lar: t/c 18:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• The indef block looks like a good idea, especially considering the harassment promise made in that last edit. The slur is totally unnecessary. IF he can prove that he'll play well with others and be a positive contributor in the future, perhaps it could be reconsidered. We'll see, though. Tony Fox (arf!) 19:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Just so. Guy (Help!) 20:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support, with some regret. I would have thought it would have been sufficient for him to be banned from Iraq and 9/11-related articles, templates, and categories only, allowing him to post on talk pages, but on indefinite NPA and POINT parole. (9/11-related being defined as articles which either we or he thinks are 9/11-related.)

  (In any case, we need to protect his user pages showing that he's blocked, as he'll probably edit them using his sock puppets, otherwise.

  It should also be noted that he has filed harrassment claims against me, and I'd started to put together a mediation request, negotiating as to the locus of dispute. Is there any point to going forward on that, as even an indef blocked user has some rights to "prosecute" former harassment complaints. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Reluctantly support. Threats of disruption have to be taken seriously. —Doug Bell  20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose – …just to note that a lot of folks who shared their opinions could as easily be questioned about their edits (reverts), their manners and their civility. From my perspective this indefinite block will do no good. The fact is, Nuclear was under to much pressure, he was cornered (by the very people who advocate his forced retirement) and it's only natural that he decided to bite back. Constant threats about (poorly founded?) former charges? As far as I can recall three "coordinated attacks" in last month? Not sure what to say, but poor language is usually caused by poor language, raising one voice will raise another and so on… Double standards? Most certainly. Lovelight 02:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Since Mongo got nothing but the ticket for his escapade, I'd suggest another amnesty. Unblock the Nuke (immediately) and try to reconsider the very basis on which we evaluate actions of our fellow editors. Lovelight 03:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

young editor with personal info

I previously left a note about a young editor here last week and watchlisted the page and anon blanked the page saying My son is only 8 and I don't want him putting personal info on the website. Please help me delete this ASAP. User:Cometstyles reverted this blanking as vandalism. Can someone please look into this under the assumption this kid is 8 and his parents are simply struggling to make this request properly?--BirgitteSB 17:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Also please look into his deleted edits mentioned on his talk page and see if there is anything that might need to be considered part of an oversight request. I have no idea what the pages were before deletion.--BirgitteSB 17:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted and recreated the user page to make the personal info unrecoverable for non-sysops. I will look at the other edits. --BozMo talk 17:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree w/ you. Indeed, the IP in question never vandalized wikipedia. I tried to email the account owner but it is not configurated. I'd leave the page blanked until further notice. This post is enough for now. -- FayssalF - 17:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

No other edit seems to reveal personal info. I think this is ok now. --BozMo talk 17:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Nkras sock

Request that someone consider blocking this sock of banned User:Nkras:

• 63.229.199.170 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

I say consider because he is trolling me but he's doing it on Jimbo's user page so I don't know how it should all play out. But I'd like to at least get some eyes on it. — coelacan talk — 18:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked by JzG. Tagged as a sockpuppet by... himself? – Luna Santin (talk) 19:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If only they could all be this helpful. (jarbarf) 20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it time to consider a range block for a set period of time? Justin Eiler 03:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Powerrangerbuster, PowerRangerBuster2, Can't sleep, Zordon will teleport me and CBDrunkerson

This is a hard story to piece together, but Powerrangerbuster contacted me asking to be unblocked. As far as I can tell, CBDrunkerson is an impostor of CBDunkerson and applied a false {{tl:Doppelganger}} tag to his userpage. This was met with an indefinite block, which has now come to mean any sockpuppets have been banned.

Powerrangerbuster (talk · contribs) claims not to be CBDrunkerson (talk · contribs), but admits to being Can't sleep, Zordon will teleport me (talk · contribs), created in an attempt to see "if Can't sleep "owns" the "Can't sleep" prefix (*shakes head*). The user also created Power ranger buster, a nonsense article.

Mackensen commented at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User names that "Can't sleep, Zordon will teleport me" was the same user as "CBDrunkerson" and "Powerrangerbuster". "Can't sleep, clown will eat me" apparently requested a checkuser but I can't find any case to that effect.

HighInBC (talk · contribs) blocked "Powerrangerbuster" and "PowerRangerBuster2" indefinitely, the latter with the rationale that he'd "admitted to being a sockpuppet of CBDrunkerson"--I assume on the strength of this edit summary: .

Given the account creation proximity ( and ), I believe the user is also "CBDrunkerson", and I informed him that I would not contemplate unblocking. However, I do think the rationale of the above could be better documented, which is what I've done, above, and I invite other admins to review and comment. Demi /_C 19:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'd say we unblock as and when we have credible evidence that the user has grown up. Guy (Help!) 19:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me clarify that CSCWEM privately requested a checkuser, the public results of which I presented at the above forum. I was also contacted requesting an unblock. Mackensen (talk) 19:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe I found another user in this sockpuppet ring, Wrongporch (talk · contribs). His first edit was here. Obviously, he doesn't have vandalproof, and because of his other edits, I've blocked this guy indef for trolling.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 19:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Spelling correction

It's "automatically", not "automagically" at the bottom of this page header. I'd correct it myself, but apparently it's restricted to admins.  :) YechielMan 19:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

But automagically is cooler. :( Okay, maybe it's unprofessional. I like it, it's a harmless bit of fun on a board that's otherwise all vitriol and anger. Others might not see it that way. Discuss? Or perhaps move this to talk? – Luna Santin (talk) 19:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I also believe its harmless and quite appropriate. See Wiktionary's definition for more details: (Automagical on Wiktionary). It sums up the process very nicely.¤~Persian Poet Gal 19:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it that time again? Endorse "automagically", same as last time. Guy (Help!) 19:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse as usual. Can we link to the myriad other times this has been brought up? Should we add this to a FAQ somewhere? is it on the template talk page? KillerChihuahua 19:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

No opinion, but is has been there a long time. InBC 19:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse change to automatically. Prefer professionalism over idiosyncracy. —Doug Bell  20:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• I know what the term means, but non-computer-programmers might not ;). So either change to "automatically", or link to the Wikitionary definition of "automagically". Yuser31415 20:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
• For those without a sense of humour in language, it’s a technical term. Yes, seriously. Link to wikt:automagically, if necessary… —xyzzy_n 20:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have linked to wiktionary and removed the ugly "u title" spoof. A direct link is easier than a hover. Teke 21:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse automaGically. If it's proper enough English for Mr. Darcy, shouldn't it be proper enough for Misplaced Pages? | Mr. Darcy talk 21:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Mykungfu back at it

Just a heads-up - I've indef-blocked two obvious socks of our dear friend MKF: Freakin Fool and ReadyToLive. As always, I'm open to review. Both headed right for articles on African-American fraternities and started pushing negative and somewhat racist content; editing styles are similar; and Freakin Fool also went for Dominicans Don't Play, a favorite subject of earlier MKF socks (including MrDouglass). | Mr. Darcy talk 20:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal info posted

I believe there's a method for removing personal info like this from the article's history.; if so, would someone do so, please? Andy Mabbett 21:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Done, although I can't get the article's history to load correctly. I deleted the page then restored all versions up to the offending one. | Mr. Darcy talk 21:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

In future, you may want to use requests for oversight, to prevent drawing attention to the info. Trebor 21:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have oversighted the offending revisions from the deleted history. Essjay (Talk) 21:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverting of 3RR page

Dear Administrators, User:Artaxiad has posted a 3RR report today, accusing User:AdilBaguirov. Although the report was false, because links under revert 2 and 3 were the same, administrator Dmcdevit blocked the user User:AdilBaguirov. Quickly after that User:Artaxiad (formerly also known as User:Nareklm caught for sockpuppetry and unpunished) has removed his false report. I have restored the report and added a comment indicating the concern, yet User:Artaxiad now started an edit war at Misplaced Pages 3RR reporting site reverting my comment edit. Can you please, address the issue. Below are (1) the original false 3RR report by Artaxiad, (2) Artaxiad's removal of the report after blockage of AdilBaguirov, (3) my comment, and (4) the deliberate revert of 3RR comment page by Artaxiad:

(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109649139 (2)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109652101 (3)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109657277 (4)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109658298

I would like to find out why this user Artaxiad (a.k.a. Nareklm) is given so much freedom to abuse other contributor's basic reporting and RR rights. Atabek 22:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The user was blocked for edit warring right after he was blocked and warned and who are you? why do you support adil so much? thats a big question, i removed my report because he already got blocked. Artaxiad 22:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

No, the user was blocked for alleged 3RR on Tigranes the Great page (it says so on User's talk page), as reported and removed by yourself after the fact of blockage. This seems to be a clear blackmail and an oversight case. I am just a concerned user reporting your reverts of 3RR page(!!!), the administrators are welcome to check my editing record to see who I am. I have no desire to engage in further discussion and will let the administrators decide. Thanks. Atabek 22:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but he was edit warring on the other pages, also restoring a certain version is considered a revert, and I think Dominic knows what he does, he violated it. Artaxiad 22:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You guys should stop reporting eachothers. There should be something done to stop Armenian/Azeri reportings. It has become a reporting war and is becoming very disruptive. May I suggest two administrators following those articles and hadling the edit wars insteed of such reportings? They aren't done in good faith anyway. One side reporting the other to get the other silenced (from both sides) has become out of proportion and isen't helping the issue. Reporting incidences should be done for the better, but here the situation has made it that this tool is abused. In any way, the users know already who the concerned admins are and can use their user pages insteed of "spamming" the incidents and dragging uninvolved administrators in this intestine conflict. Fad (ix) 23:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, however, the favor started from user Artaxiad who made a false 3RR report. I am just reporting it because the consequence of his misconduct is blockage of the user based on false report as one of the reasons. This counter-productive terrorizing of usernames and notices should be stopped, as the user in question Artaxiad (formerly Nareklm) should understand that false reporting, reverting and edit warring is not going to change the contributor's opinion neither their positions. What goes around comes around, so it's essential to use Talk pages and provide arguments there. Atabek 01:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about the false report, right now I have hard time digesting Nareklm uses of a sock, and in my eyes this suspicion that he would do this again for me will remain. The same with you, just to remind you. In any event, if your issue about the misreporting is true, bring it with the admin who blocked him. I don't know in which article Adil was engaged in this revert war, but it will sure not be as worst as what he's doing on the NK. After uneasy months of negotiations with both parties, the NK had finally peace, Adil came in, edit warred, ended up with its closing. The article was opened again, again edit waring, again it was closed, opened again, and again. If Adil wasn't blocked, for sure the article will again be closed. I requested Grandmaster to comment on that three time, he knew that there was an agreement on the specific issues Adil was engaged in, he decided to remain silent. His choice, but I just want to remind you that NK was one of the few articles in which we were able to work on some level of peace and Adil has sabotaged that. I expect at least one Azeri editor to ask him to stop. Fad (ix) 02:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

That's not a false report admins know what they do, that was 4 reverts go look at it yourself, and you're not going to get me blocked for changing my username since admins did it, so stop saying things like that and when you revert stop saying vandalism thats one reason no one wants to cooperate with you adil and dacy. Artaxiad 01:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Changing of names should not be allowed just on the middle of a conflict, I don't know what your motives were, but you should have waited at least a little bit. Anyway, its done. Fad (ix) 02:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ryulong is ...

Can someone block this user (full username redacted) on the grounds that it is:

(1) Inflammatory

(2) Sounds too similar to another user

(3) May hurt Ryulong on the inside.

~Steptrip 22:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Already dealt with.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User doesn't exist. Where did you get the impression the user does? 〈REDVEЯS〉 22:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The user (original name redacted from section header) is indeed listed on Special:Listusers. Any active administrator or vandal-fighter has a series of attack-named, hopefully indef-blocked usernames on that list. Presumably Steptrip was looking at the list of users newly created or something along those lines. Newyorkbrad 22:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This type of blatant WP:USERNAME violation should probably go to WP:AIV, by the way. No need for discussion. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

From what I can tell, Steptrip listed the user here as "User:Ryulong is an asshole". That user doesn't exist, but "User:Ryulong is an asshole." does. Note the position of the full stop. Aecis 23:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

My block of Rbj

I recently blocked Rbj (talk · contribs) (see #Restoring banned user Nkras' edits in userspace? above). A rundown of the situation:

• Nkras (talk · contribs) was community banned recently. Several users have taken to reverting Nkras edits per the banning policy, including edits to talk pages;
• Rbj restored several such removed comments on a number of occasions (to Talk:Marriage: 1, 2; to User talk:Rbj: 1, 2), and was hostile to people informing him about the situation;
• The comments Rbj restored to his talk page included a threat that Nkras would be getting his lawyer involved (evidently directed against blocking admin Physicq210), and one of the comments restored to Talk:Marriage was seen by some as a threat to recruit meatpuppets or sockpuppets to edit war on the article (though I didn't consider that credible);
• Spurred by this edit summary ("these are words i might say. i take ownership of them.") I blocked Rbj, for the threats that he took ownership of.

Jimbo has now lifted the block, so clearly my take on the situation wasn't as evident as I had thought. So, in the spirit of self-improvement, was my judgment off here? --bainer (talk) 23:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

That's just ridiculous, Thebainer. Just goes to show that WP:DICK can affect anybody at any time. Let this be a lesson to us all. Jeffpw 23:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

who is the dick? and what is your evidence? (vapid words are easy to toss around.) r b-j 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Jimbo is off-wiki at the moment so he can't reply. But I'll cut and paste; what follows was my reply to Jimbo and it's an open question to everybody:

then what is WP:BAN supposed to mean?: "Users are generally expected to refrain from reinstating any edits made by banned users. Users that nonetheless reinstate such edits take responsibility for their content by so doing." Rbj is fighting to ensure that legal threats remain on Misplaced Pages.

If legal threats are not supposed to be on Misplaced Pages, and Rbj is going to assert that they cannot be deleted from his user page, then how can they be removed? — coelacan talk — 00:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

A bit of Wikilawyering here but WP:BAN specifically states that banned users' edits from prior to blocking don't fall under the, "enforcement by reverting edits" clause. Unless Nkras' edits were in themselves removeable per policy then they shouldn't be removed. (→Netscott) 00:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No wikilawyering necessary. The comments were made after being banned and were legal threats addressed to Physicq (because of his closure of the thread at the CN reading the consensus to ban). —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 00:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Fella just showed up in on my userpage cursing at me. — coelacan talk — 02:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

no, this is an example of you not being an honest person. i said that although you don't think your shit stinks, it actually does stink. where were you cursed?

but now i will repeat, you Coelacan, are not an honest player. you game the system for your advantage, you want your biased POV to be accepted as NPOV, and when you are called on it, you revert to nasty and underhanded behavior to try to get your way. you're not honest.

you can accurately, if you want, call that an insult, at least to your integrity, but where is the curse?

add to that, where did i once threaten anyone, legally or in any other manner?

Jimbo ain't dumb and neither am i. just because you arrogantly crap on our face and call it caviar, does not mean that others are so gullible to sense it as such. r b-j 02:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

My take -- Jimbo was right to lift the block. Rbj has violated policy by acting as a proxy for a banned user, and may deserve a block, but an indefinite one is not necessary from that. The block reason indicated that Rbj was blocked for legal threats, but he didn't himself make any legal threats, so that's not right. Yes, those edits should be removed as they are banned user edits. But an indef block is only justified if we agree that Rbj is making legal threats and I don't see that he is. However, I will make sure that the threat is removed as a banned user edit, and if Rbj pushes the issue we can block him (temporarily) for proxying. Mangojuice 02:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

and just to add another point, there was other content that Nkras put down that stood, in its own right. the content has value to be considered whether it came from Charles Manson or Nelson Mandela and it was being conveniently censored along with the legal threat that i did not make and was wrongfully ascribed to me. it's this content that i was taking ownership of myself. and it is content that i repeated so often myself that it's just bothersome to do it again. r b-j 02:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, anything Nkras put before his ban would be evaluated in its own right, as it should be, and would only be removed if it would under normal circumstances be removed from any user. But edits made after his ban may be reverted by any editor, and WP:BAN is pretty clear on this-if you chose to reinstate his edits, they were then your edits. Since you chose to reinstate his legal threats and personal attacks, they were, from that time forward, your legal threats and personal attacks. You realized this, at one point you specifically stated that you "take ownership" of his meatpuppetry threat. I don't even see any indication that you've decided not to do this anymore. Finally, quit cursing at Coelacan. I started the AN/I thread regarding your reinstatement of Nkras' edits, so if you really feel the need to curse at someone, do it at me. Whatever you can think of, I've been called worse anyway. Seraphimblade 03:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

i haven't cursed Coelacan. there is no example of it. repeating a false premise multiple times doesn't make it true.

you can also repeat it all you want, but i made no personal threats, legal or otherwise, to anyone at anytime. repeating a false premise multiple times does not make it true and is reflective of something less than forthrightness.

as User:Petesmiles said, i'm not very patient with stupid people. well, it's not quite accurate since i haven't identified anyone as stupid at all. but i have identified some statements as blatently false or blatently POV skewed. since WP is uncensored, the simple descriptive term for this is "bullshit". and when someone, stupid or smart, presents such bullshit to me to accept as true or of value, i'm not very patient with it. i read it for what it is and ascribe motive to it. and if the motive is one of arrogance or dishonesty ("we give you this shit and say it's caviar! ha, ha, ha, ha!"), i will say as much. it's not diplomatic, but it's not a curse. it is not cursing anyone.

these repeated false premises are bullshit. they are not persuasive. they're crap. i don't recognize them as having value and i say so clearly and forthrightly. and i take ownership of that. but i don't take ownership of what you say that i say, just because you say it doesn't make it so (i think, but am not sure, that this was the simple truth that Jimbo could clearly see).

so it's full of crap. now what are you going to do? oh... you just cannot handle it when someone so openly rejects your crap and calls it what it is. so you act to have that person indefinitely blocked. the term for that is underhanded, and, frankly immature. r b-j 03:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Your tendency to be pedantic and wordy is not helping your case at all. Consider yourself lucky that I am not obsessively pursuing the removal of the legal threat on your talk page, an act that many others would have done. You can say that you did not directly insult anyone, but who here is so stupid as to not get the implied meanings of your words? Use your head; we're not idiots that only see what is spoon-fed to us. --physicq (c) 03:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Enzedbrit

Enzedbrit (talk · contribs) seems to have taken personal exception to the category of "LGBT organisations" that has been added to NAMBLA. In the course of the debate, he has become increasingly abusive and legalistic, making insults (such as calling for all "decent LGBT" to agree with him), and then pedantically claiming they mean something different. The debate can be found on the talk page, and his talkpage. He has actually, and I confess even I, as laid back as I usually am, was shocked by this, accused (an editor) of sleeping with children. A warning/block may be in order as three users have now tried to engage with him, including someone who agrees with his position, and he has attacked them all. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

His POV has sort of slipped into zealotry. I and several others have tried to reason with him, and...well, the above diff that Dev provided sort of says it all. Forgot to add that he doesn't seem to understand most policies here, including canvassing. Here's a list of editors he canvassed to influence the discussion at NAMBLA: , , , , , , When told canvassing was inappropriate, he said he planned to do it again. Jeffpw 23:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• This is from a user who is vexatious and patronising. I quote from the WP:LGBT page Here we go again. NAMBLA (North American Men Boy Love Association) is most definitely covered by the LGBT project. Your diatribe against this organization is clearly POV, and has no place on Misplaced Pages. I charge Jeffpw with the same accusations that he is laying against me Enzedbrit 02:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The particulars here are that this categorization is grossly offensive to everyone else in the generalized category of LGBT, and he's grossly offended. He needs to be civil about it, but ... this is ridiculous. The only people who lump them all together are anti-gay hate groups trying to make mainstream gays look bad. I'm removing the category. Georgewilliamherbert 01:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't do that, George, not while discussion is ongoing on the talk page. The fact is members at the LGBT Project are split on this issue, and we should probably be the ones who make the decision whether it is included or not. Jeffpw 01:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, too late, but for the sake of argument (and to deter reverts) - psychologists researching pedophillia report it to be a third form of sexual attraction, distinct from hetero or homosexuality. Most pedophiles aren't gay, and only a tiny minority of gays are pedophiles, apparently proportionately less than in the general population. Most gays, all the ones I know, and everyone else across the LGBT spectrum, find connecting them with NAMBLA to be akin to hate speech. And I tend to agree. It's roughly equivalent to calling "Hitler", with the general populace.

The arguments on the talk page are not persuasive.

I certainly may end up being wrong on this, but your definition of the category is at odds with standard usage, and offensive to a lot of people, and I think there's a very good reason not to use it there. Georgewilliamherbert 01:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Of the five members of WP:LGBT who have expressed an opinion on the category so far, three have said it should stay and two otherwise. Thus "The only people who lump them all together are anti-gay hate groups" is not true, and that is in fact the (false) idea that Enzedbrit is pushing. I mean, I really, really understand his concerns, but the fact that the LGBT community have (rightly) utterly disowned NAMBLA doesn't make it any less LGBT. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

• It does actually. As has been pointed out by others on wikipedia, sex between men and boys does not mean that the man has to be a homosexual. This is something beyond heterosexuality and homosexuality. I am being attacked as having a strong POV, yet what people don't realise, because I am a faceless username on a planet of 6.5 billion, is that I have been actively involved in my community for many years and the activity of sex between adults and minors does not automatically fall into a determined sexuality. Rather than POV, that is accepted commonsense.Enzedbrit 02:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Please consider the sensitivity and care with which Jews for Jesus is handled relative to Judiasm as a whole. Misplaced Pages categories are not merely library catalog designations.

Pedophillia really is a third form of sexual attraction. It's got gay or bi. It's a hotbutton nametag. Georgewilliamherbert 01:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

George, I agree. Can we keep the content-part of this discussion over to Talk:NAMBLA (I see you've already weighed in there)? That way this dicussion can focus simply on the behavior of Enzedbrit. — coelacan talk — 01:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think one of the problem has been the fact that editors involved in this dispute may be too involved, either as members of the LGBT Wikiproject and/or as LGBT people, with issues surrounding the dispute. I suggested forms of dispute resolution to Enzedbrit when I expressed a view that his cross-posting to talkpages could be seen as votestacking. I now think it would be helpful if an RfC be made about the categorisation of the article so that cooler heads may have a look at this issue, an intend to request such and RfC presently. WjBscribe 01:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

A second, and probably bigger, problem I see, in reviewing the relevant talk section, is this edit: in which Enzedbrit uses 'Guilt By Association' to suggest that anyone who says it belongs in the category is either a pedophile or a pederast, or maybe just gay. No matter what he meant specifically, it's a clear challenge that anyone supporting category inclusion is horrific, thus dissuading others from supporting it's inclusion. I'd go voice support for inclusion, based on the 'historical perspectives' and 'criticisms of LGBT' arguments raised on the talk page, but I guess the WP's got it covered, for better or worse. ThuranX 01:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It might be useful if an uninvolved party spoke to Enzedbrit as so far comments about his conduct have all come from users involved in the dispute with him (myself included). My aim in the WP:RFC/SOC is to try and gain consensus to resolve the underlying dispute which has clearly become rather inflammatory. WjBscribe 01:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Why don't I go do that... Georgewilliamherbert 01:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

• I am responding my defence here. I have not been abusive at all and anyone that has followed my edits cannot claim in good faith that I have been. I have called upon 'decent LGBT folk' and have explained now several times, including on my talk page, what this meant. I have countered someone's assertion that my health is in question by edits to a group that openly advocates sex with children, with a comment that is fitting, and that is that I'm not the one sleeping with children. Again, this was not aimed at the contributor and this has been explained. Therefore, the grounds for me being listed here are baseless and I demand the removal of my good name from this page. Enzedbrit 02:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

...And I think my comments were just verified. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 03:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

POV editor,

I'm concerned about the pattern of editing by Burk Hale (talk • contribs). Hale began by adding information sourced to someone named "Elder Hale" to several articles, all of which was remarkably POV and referenced to a certainly unreliable source. Will Beback and I both brought up concerns about his contributions on Hale's talk page, and I noted several relevant guidelines and policies. Hale, however, made only minor changes to his additions and continues to push a POV and to cite a specific unreliable source that I suspect is Hale's own website. Hale's contribution history isn't large, so I haven't provided diffs. I would block Hale, but given that I have a clear POV regarding the subject matter that Hale is editing and because part of the problem is POV-pushing on Hale's part, I would like fellow administrative comment on Hale to determine whether a block (or something else) is the best course of action. · j e r s y k o talk · 00:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This editor appears to be the same person as Rangeguide (talk · contribs), who created 1957 Georgia Memorial to Congress, which is one of the worst POV/OR messes I've seen in a while. -Will Beback · † · 02:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The 1957 Georgia Memorial to Congress article has since been cleaned up, in large part by User:Zantastik. · j e r s y k o talk · 03:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Persistent addition of the exact same inappropriate comment to talk page

On Talk:Bridge to Terabithia the same inappropriate and offensive comment as been repeatedly added since August 2006. Numerous attempts to delete. The comment refers to a real-life dead child and is irrelevant to the talk page. The comment is exactly the same word for word in each case but added by several user IP and usernames ( sockpuppet?) Starting with the latest

As User:136.150.200.99

As User:136.150.200.100

As User:136.150.200.99 again

As User:24.29.74.132

As User:There is more to the world than meets the eye

As User:136.150.200.99 again

As User:24.29.37.46

What to do about a case like this? Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 02:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

MONGO

I responded to a request from Thomas Basboll to what he perceived as a threatening post from MONGO with the implication of physicality involved. I agreed with the perception, and asked MONGO to withdraw the remarks and assure Thomas Basboll that he would not be subject to intimidation physically or in any other way. MONGO did not withdraw his remarks but simply launched a personal attack on me instead, implying that I had a grudge against him, which I do not. However, in the interests of observing propriety, I propose to withdraw from the dispute, and I would be grateful if another admin could attend to it. The incident is on MONGO's talk page. Thanks. Tyrenius 02:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

There is some clear incivility going on there. `InBC

Nothing to see here. Move along. The short answer is that content disputes belong on the talk page of the article. The next shortest answer appears to be that User:MONGO wants neither User:Tyrenius or User:Thomas Basboll to post on his talk page and vice versa. It seems all problems would be solved if talk page discussions between these parties were limited to article space. Going forward, that seems to be the best policy. As for the "physicality" it appears User:MONGO's position is if you are going to say "Fuck you" to him, you should say it to his face. Not sure that's any more of a threat than saying "Fuck you." I say, drop your guns and step away from brink. --Tbeatty 02:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think anyone said "Fuck you", my reading was MONGO was interpreting "Have a nice day" as "Fuck you". Quote "surely you know when you say "have a nice day" in the context of the disagreements we generally have, that is the slang way of saying, "Fuck you". InBC 02:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Nobody threatened bodily harm either. Your interpretation turned it into that in the same way that MONGO interpreted the "Have a Nice Day" as "Fuck You". I am inclined to believe that both users essentially told each other to "go to hell", but you won't find those words either. It certainly doesn't warrant a one sided block considering that the incivility was taken to MONGO's talk page and not the other way around. --Tbeatty 02:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It has gone further. While this is probably a block I would not have placed, I cannot argue with it's reasoning. InBC 02:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

(Quadruple edit conflict) (Tyrenius, I hope you'll forgive my tampering with your post to put relevant dif's throughout.) I'm familiar with the page the two are debating about but am not involved in this conflict. For those who aren't familiar with the 9/11 article and corresponding talk page, it gets pretty heated. I don't think MONGO was intending a physical threat here. MONGO's comments boil down to "you pissed me off; I feel you were rude to me; people aren't rude to me in person; don't talk to me again." While I'd advise MONGO to avoid mentioning his apparently fearsome mortal coil in the future, I'm strongly of the mind this was not a threat. Uncivil, perhaps, but no threat. JDoorjam JDiscourse 02:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I've temporarily blocked this user for making a direct (although admittedly thinly veiled) threat to another user. Please see User_talk:MONGO#Blocked. Thanks gaillimh 02:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, come on. Blocks are preventative, not punitive. That's inappropriate. JDoorjam JDiscourse 02:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

An attempt to discuss the issue was greeted by a go away, I don't think this is punitive. I personally would have attempted discussion more. I see a few people trying to sweep this under the rug, I personally think admins should be held to higher standard, but that is just me. Good night, and Have a nice day!. InBC 02:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

MONGO, rather famously, is no longer an administrator. Newyorkbrad 02:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops. My bad. Well then, take all I said and multiply it by 0.8. InBC 02:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead, say have a nice a day to my face! :) --Tbeatty 02:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Whoa. This is way overreacting to the mild spat there. Gallimh, I'm going to contact you shortly, but I urge you to unblock. Georgewilliamherbert 02:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yup, just tap the man on his back, return him the keys and encourage him to speed up before next road kill… Talking about the double standards… Dear oh dear… Lovelight 03:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflicts) The person that seems to have been forgotten in all this is Thomas Basboll, who felt sufficiently intimidated to consider leaving wikipedia if he did not have community support against being, what he perceived as, threatened in this way. I asked MONGO to withdraw the remarks. He did not do so, and so far has not done so. Perhaps someone else could advise him to, and perhaps we could give some support to Thomas Basboll. MONGO also launched a direct attack on me, which my message to him does not merit. Tyrenius 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

He could have come to ANI or some uninvolved third party to ask for clarification or mediation. You were a bad choice. He's seeing a threat where there's only rudeness, and that is not something he needs to leave the project for, nor something that justified the block on MONGO. If MONGO had done that on Thomas' user talk, or kept it up for a while, it would rise to the level of actionable harrassment. But this is unreasonable. Georgewilliamherbert 03:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You of course have the benefit of hindsight. Obviously MONGO is still sore about something, but it's history as far as I'm concerned, and things move on. Tyrenius 03:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Gaillimh seems to have gone offline and didn't respond to a query about the block, so I've unblocked. Tryenius, I appreciate your concern, but I think this was a misunderstanding that blew up out of nowhere, and the best thing is for everyone just to forget it and move on. SlimVirgin 03:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think a reassurance from MONGO about what he did not intend the remarks to be taken as would put an end to matters, and indeed is all that was necessary in the first instance. Tyrenius 03:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, since it's all about fire and forget, let's unblock the Nuclear too… Lovelight 03:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

As I said on MONGO's talk page, I'm female, and I can't imagine feeling frightened as a result of MONGO's post. If people are so sensitive, then maybe they should just respect another user's wish that they discuss problems on the relevant article talk page rather than on his user talk page. I make a point of not continuing to post on people's talk pages once they make it clear that my posts are unwelcome, unless it's absolutely essential, and MONGO said he had the articles watchlisted. (By the way, was it just a coincidence, that Thomas went to ask help from someone who had been in serious dispute with MONGO?) I wish admins would give a little more consideration before they put permanent records in someone's block log — something that's far worse than the inconvenience of temporarily being unable to edit. I fully support the unblocking. This was a very trivial matter, completely overblown. Thank you, SlimVirgin. Musical Linguist 03:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I object to the innuendo of "serious dispute with MONGO". I'm not aware of having much to do with MONGO, and whatever dispute there was was very short-lived. I simply asked him to reassure Thomas Basboll that he was not intending to intimidate him, and when I realised MONGO had some lasting enmity towards me, I withdrew. I think that reassurance should be made. It still hasn't been. Tyrenius 03:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You didn't withdraw. You made two more posts on his talk page after he had asked you not to. Musical Linguist 03:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

For goodness' sake. So MONGO's log now defines him for ever and a day as someone who threatens violence? Yes, admins are held to a higher standard. I'd really like to see admins take a little more thought before they smear editors in their indelible block log. Bishonen | talk 03:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Spammer

70.224.58.15 has added links to Gamefreaks 365, a gaming website, to numerous gaming articles. I noticed that in their forums, only 58 of 1500 users have ever posted, leading me to believe they aren't all that popular, and that this may be a move to get hits. I have removed the links from all articles that have been edited since the IP's edit, leaving the way clear for a admin rollback on the remaining articles.--Drat (Talk) 03:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

On-going and Long-term Harassment

Some months ago I removed an editors off-topic comment from the Talk:James Kim page. I often do that as talk pages are not supposed to be used for general discussion of a subject, let alone making attacks against the subject. Since that time the editor through an IP has harassed me endlessly. Jake b (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Some of the back and forth is available on his talk page (he keeps blanking it) and the admins previously involved. its continued through various IPs until now where he's admitted it and the connection is obvious. Here is the edit where he admits to having a user name . You can also see on the history of this page the user whose comment was removed and the IP both editing it. His comments made it quite obvious, but this is a clear connection. You can view the IPs contrib , as well as my talk page and the james kim talk page for more of the harassment. Specifically this section contains most of it .--Crossmr 03:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Malicious page move bot

There is a malicious page move bot operating from a large IP range with multiple sleeper accounts. I've used my steward access to temporarily gain access to the local CheckUser interface to help counter it, with the approval of several administrators and a CheckUser in the administrator channel. They are operating from Comcast Cable Communications, in the ranges 69.104.0.0–69.111.255.255, 69.180.0.0/15, 69.226.194.0/23, 71.192.0.0–71.207.255.255, and 71.128.0.0–71.159.255.255. Some accounts they've used include Brheed Zonabp84, Maglonj72, Eliaragirlrn66, Gseandiyh79, Gwuen Galeus1978, Kzaaralmb, and Wiuttynametg. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:02:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I'm the Checkuser in question. I've hard-blocked 69.181.0.0/16 as a preventative measure. This will probably catch a lot of innocent bystanders, but there's no helping it. Everybody be on the lookout for Brian Peppers-related vandalism. Cheers, Mackensen (talk) 03:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and thanks also to the numerous, numerous people who have helped move the pages back and delete the crud. Antandrus (talk) 03:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I saw it happening, but can't only administrators undo page moves? — MichaelLinnear 03:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No. Users can revert page moves so long as the redirect made during the move is not altered. Then an admin is required.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

And a Happy Brian Peppers Day to All! JDoorjam JDiscourse, who has waited a year to say that. 03:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes--and then an admin needs to delete the garbage redirect. I think we might get an extra "revert" button on the move log (do non-admins see that? don't remember) Antandrus (talk) 03:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC) -- Yes, non-admins have a revert button: I just looked at it logged out. It's in the move log, and makes reverting these fairly easy. Antandrus (talk) 03:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

In the future, Jimbo and everyone else should not give an exact date for the "return" of something. —Centrx→talk • 03:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha, that is kind of setting yourself up for mayhem to occur. — MichaelLinnear 03:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this the same person? Real96 03:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Test run? — MichaelLinnear 03:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

(reduce indent) Is it User:Flameviper? Because, on one of his socks, he used Elaragril66 which is similar to User:Elaragirl. He was banned for a comment made on her talk page. Real96 03:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

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