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Revision as of 10:23, 22 February 2007

Welcome!

Hello, Alpertunga5000, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! I am CTSWyneken. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Again, welcome! And if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. --CTSWyneken 00:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Greetings

Hi Adil, and welcome to wikipedia. Apparently you are from Azerbaijan, and you might wish to have a look at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Azeri, which is intended to improve coverage of Azerbaijan related issues. If you wish to join, just add your name to the list of participants. Regards, Grandmaster 18:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

In regards to some of your comments at Talk:Nezami

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. —Khoikhoi 02:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate the comments. I will review the guidelines once more. I've tried to stay as cool as possible when attacked -- it is clear that I did not start it. Was the person who attacked me warned, before or after I brought to the attention his offensive remarks? --AdilBaguirov 05:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that he made any personal attacks—would you be able to show me where he has? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 05:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly - I placed it in my response today: "Also, I’d like to ask for everyone to be constructive as well as, refrain from making insulting remarks like “what an big time idiot a person has to be” or “to show the real stupidity of Mr. Baguirov” as Mr. Doostzadeh has done more than once".

Here's the full quote of his written at 10:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC) on the Nezami talk page: "15). Mr. Adil Baguirov repeats the same statement about Shirin like a parrot! But the fact of the matter is that I brought verses from other poets that consider Shirin as an Armenian. Indeed there is no mention of Turan or Afrasiyaab in the Khusraw o Shirin! Mr. Baguirov is a liar. For the rest of his statements also he can not bring the relavent verses. From example about nomadic horse milk, where is the verse? Where is the verse about Afrasiyaab? Where is the verse about Turan in Khusraw o Shirin? . And to show the real stupidity of Mr. Baguirov, it is well known that Shirin was a Christian and not some Shamanistic horse milk drinker." He did later delete it -- in general, he does a lot of revisions and such tactics make a fair debate hard, but it is saved here: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Nezami&oldid=55047097 --AdilBaguirov 05:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to also note that I refuted every single statement of that person, especially stemming from this paragraph (e.g., Shirin being Armenian, Afrasiyab not being the ancestor of Shirin and Mahin-Banu, milk being an important part of diet of Shirin, Shirin not being Christian, etc.)

I wish I could have a purely scholarly debate, but my opponent is not interested in such, and uses all tactics at his disposal -- from unwarranted insults to belittling to outright misquotes and falsifications. Unlike him, I actually document all such false statements and prove why they are such and not just some propaganda slur. --AdilBaguirov 05:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, warned. Are there any compromises you could think of with the user? —Khoikhoi 05:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. There are three ways -- I) we can either exclude everything that any of the knowledgeable parties object -- which probably 1) means only myself and Mr. Doostzadeh as the most knowledgeable and persons who invested most time, and 2) it also means the article might have much less information.

II) We include almost everything we want, by having one pro-Iran version for every pro-Azerbaijan version of the article.

III) We negotiate and agree, line-by-line, on the content and I would like to insist on a third-party moderator(s) involvement.

In all three variants, locking the page might be a good idea.

The page the way it is (without my edits -- as they keep on reverting them) makes little sense, as 1) it is completely one sided and pro-Iranian despite mentioning Azerbaijan pro forma and 2) they intentionally include contentious and false information, such as on Shirin being Armenian.

By the way, I can take the current page as a basis and make all the corrections as I see fit, while being as rational and unbiased as possible, that is not being one-sided and admitting everything that needs to be admitted. I believe that my view of Nizami as one of the greatest Persian language poets who belongs to both Azerbaijan and Iran culturally and historically, and can be celebrated as a dual-nationality poet -- much like many other poets, such as Rudaki, Jami or Ferdowsi -- should please most on both sides of the wire. --AdilBaguirov 06:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Those are good suggestions. In regards to Shirin, I suggest something like, "some sourds say she was Armenian, others Azerbaijani". And perhaps we could remove the quotes section all together. How does that sound? —Khoikhoi 05:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. As a member of the Misplaced Pages community, I would like to remind you of Misplaced Pages's neutral-point-of-view policy for editors. In the meantime, please be bold and continue contributing to Misplaced Pages. Thank you! —Khoikhoi 15:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Khoikhoi, thank you. Which of my edits did not fully correspond to the rules? I obviously might have not worded something the perfect way, but every single factual statement, figure, stat I can back up -- even if it's not readily available on the Web, I have those pages scanned and can easily upload to my own website for anyone's viewing or to Misplaced Pages.

Hi Adil. Well, the one I noticed in particular was this one. Calling NKR "so-called" reflects a certain POV. It's like saying the so-called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Let me give you an example of how NPOV works:

Armenian POV: Nagorno-Karabakh was liberated by Armenians

Azeri POV: Nagorno-Karabakh is occupied by Armenians

Neutral point of view: Nagorno-Karabakh is controlled by Armenians

See what I'm saying? We don't want to sway the reader to one side or the other, it's their job to decide whether it's liberation or occupation, not ours. No article should be biased, see WP:NPOV for more details. —Khoikhoi 21:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you - I understand, and that's why I thought I did provide comments in the Talk page. Any reference to "NKR" must be preceeded either by: 1) so-called, or 2) self-styled or 3) unrecognized. This is what all authoritative sources like US State Department , New York Times , RFE/RL , TIME Magazine , BBC , UK Parliament , MFA of China , etc. Thus, as you can see, it is very much a standard and a neutral POV. Armenian users are in violation by eliminating this important disclaimer and thus attempting to lend legitimacy to an unrecognized, self-styled entity.

Also, TRNC cannot be so-called because it has been recognized by at least one state -- Turkey, and the latter, according to the Treaty of Guarantee, had the right to intervene in Cyprus, granted it did not happen all and fully the way proscribed, but still, TRNC, Palestine, Kosovo, and "NKR" are different. --AdilBaguirov 22:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

So what you're saying, Adil, is if Armenia recognizes the NKR (which so far as I know it hasn't, which IMO is a bit strange) then you would end your requirement to have "so-called" before the name? --Golbez 18:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Technically, once even one legitimate state recognizes another entity, the latter has become de jure recognized and debuted onto the world stage, although of course there are several more important steps, such as recognition by some other states, membership in various international organizations (membership in UN is not a requirement, but very indicative of the status), and opening of diplomatic offices. Currently, so-called "NKR" is an illegitimate entity, steps below Palestine and TRNC. In regards to TRNC, don't forget that US airplanes actually flew there *directly*, and President Bush asked Secretary Rice last year to see how to make this regular. But then again, TRNC and Karabakh are different, and should be treated as such. And there are very good reasons why Armenia stoped short of recognizing "NKR" de jure, although it accorded a lot of aspects of the de jure recognition upon "NKR" (it's too lengthy and complicated to write about here). If anything, this was a masterful tactic chosen by Armenian diplomacy, which has been lead from day one by US-born or US-educated expatriats of Armenian origin.

Also, once more, I am not inventing anything or coming up with anything new -- I only insist on the same approach based on legal and political aspects, as well as consistency, as displayed by tonns of sources I've cited. --AdilBaguirov 19:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

You still don't seem to get it. Who says international recognition has to be the #1 priority for being a country? It's still de-facto. Anyways, good luck. —Khoikhoi 22:19, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It generally is -- and was for "NKR" from the beginning as well, when they wrote letters to President Yeltsin asking to admit them into the Russian Federation, then to CIS, etc. However, my concern is different -- all I'm saying is that the rhetoric and terminology used on that page should be in line with what other neutral, Western sources say, which means preceed all reference to so-called "NKR" with any one of the three epithets. Why would this not be a reasonable request? --AdilBaguirov 22:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm just saying that I don't think the Armenian editors would be very happy with it. Also, I noticed that they've been reverting you a lot. You probably won't get reverted if you work out some sort of compromise with them. Görüşərik, —Khoikhoi 18:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Khoikhoi, what about Azerbaijani and Turkish editors? Should we be very sensitive and appeazing to Armenian editors, and yet step all over other editors? Why? My position, as well as the position of any Azerbaijani, Turkish, Georgian, Moldovan, and other editors is based firmly on international law and on the position of the international community. Once again, this is not an "Azerbaijani view", but the view of 99% of the world, and thus it is prevailing and more accurate than the view of the dissenting Armenians. And I've also reverted a lot of their stuff - why should I compromise, whilst they should not? My position is based 100% on solid facts from ... Armenian sources! Meanwhile, those editors have nothing to put against me aside from the fact that they have been longer on Wiki (although I am on the Net since 1995, longe before many people here). The info I've include is well-known in Armenia and not really concealed, and should not be supressed by Armenian editors. --AdilBaguirov 19:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Revert warring

Revert warring with another editor is not going to solve the content dispute. As a result, two pages have been locked for the moment, and I suggest you try to work it out at the talk page before asking to unprotect the pages. -- Kim van der Linde 21:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey

Hey welcome, how are you doing? I noticed your from Azerbaijan and perhaps you could be interessed in joining our WikiProject Azeri, we work together in a organized way in Azeri related articles. If your interessed just leave a message behind. Take care. Baku87 07:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Baku87

Salam. Will do. Best, Adil.

Azerbaijan Democratic Republic

Hi Adil,

You added the following to Template:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic:

1. Chronology of Major Events (1918-1920)
2. Fatali Khoyski - Prime Minister (1875-1920)
3. Nasib Yusifbeyli - Prime Minister (1881-1920)
4. Mammad Amin Rasulzade - Statesman (1884-1955)
5. Alimardan Topchubashev - Minister of Foreign Affairs (1862-1934)
6. Mammad-Yusif Jafarov - Head of Parliament (1885-1938)

However, the way it appeared made it just go right at the top of the article, before the intro. Is that what you meant to do? —Khoikhoi 21:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No, thank you, you made it perfect. Cheers! --AdilBaguirov 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I moved the link about chronology to the article Azerbaijan Democratic Republic. Other links have already been added to the articles about relevant persons, except Nasib Yusifbeyli and Mammad-Yusif Jafarov, we need to create articles about them. Grandmaster 10:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Adil , Regarding, your comment on Shohreh Aghdashlu , She got the surname from his first husband Aydin Aghdashlu an famous Azeri painter in Iran, but herself could be Persian or Azeri. Mehrdad 15:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Ali said that too, and I saw it in various websites. Cheers, Adil --AdilBaguirov 16:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Map

All things in time. --Golbez 16:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Golbez, not to be rude, but veracity and truth cannot wait forever. We can temporarily take down the map while you prepare a new version. Thankfully, this is an electronic encyclopedia, and it's easy to do that, unlike with print editions. Again, please don't take this personally as it's not an attack on you or your graphics skills and dedication. Best, --AdilBaguirov 21:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Tigran II

HI Adil. I do not think Tigran II was Parthian. But I have done further research and I think he is of another Iranian origin. See the wikipedia thread on him and I hope you guys reach an agreement. Also on the Nezami article I am trying to do the same and make sure we all can accomodate each other. Best. --Ali doostzadeh 22:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Salam Ali, thanks for your message. I still haven't looked at the Nizami page, I've got sidetracked for the past week. I will look tomorrow, and also hope we can put it behind us. On Tigran -- Ali, it is not my opinion or my invention, I've cited everyone, including the Father of Armenian History, Movses of Khorene, who says that, and secondary, modern sources which clearly show that even in the cities of Armenia, Armenians were in minority. At that time even ancient Armenian language, grabar, didn't exist yet! Thus, not just Tigran, but the entire Arsacid and Artaxias dynasties were Parthian, and Orontids were Persian, and bunch of other kings were either Iberian, or Atropatenian or Jewish. When all those sources say those things -- and again, many are Armenian or Armenian-friendly sources, they have no reason whatsoever to be biased or falsify anything -- that means he was Parthian. Indeed, the Parthian connection was very strong, and it should not be supressed. No one denies that these figures are related primarily to Armenia and that they were kings of Armenia. --AdilBaguirov 05:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Azeris

The article is too long and Javanshir did agree to become a vassal of the Arabs 670 and then was killed in a court plot. As i said, this article is too long and doesn't need minute details on everyone. You should write an article on Javanshir instead since he doesn't have one. Thanks. Tombseye 22:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I will write on him, but what I didn't like is that all my references and wording on becoming Christian nation in 313, etc., were removed. Plus, I don't remember him accepting vassal status -- and the final subjugation happened only in 705 AD, Arabs took a long time to conquer the country. --AdilBaguirov 22:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, Ayatollah Khamenei is only 1/4 Azerbaijani, via his father. His own knowledge of the Azerbaijani language is very bad. Why is he so prominently featured and declares as some typical representative of the Azerbaijani nation? --AdilBaguirov 22:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide any references over that claim? --K a s h 22:47, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

His official biography does not mention his ethnicity, but does city of birth, which in case of Iran is very important: http://www.khamenei.ir/EN/Biography/index.jsp --AdilBaguirov 22:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

"which was interrupted by an invasion led by Tigranes the Great, who briefly took control from 99-66 CE" - I've shown this statement to be baseless -- not even Strabo, a near contemporary claims that -- Tigranes, who wasn't even Armenian, never conquered C.Albania. There is only some info from some chroniclers that kings of Albania and Iberia accepted Tigran's suzeiranty over them -- but in case of Albania, this can't be proven, as neither the coins, nor any other historical accounts prove that. Moreover, Tigranes was in control from only 95, not 99BC, and started his conquests about a decade later, capturing Atropatene (Azerbaijan) only in 85 BC or so, and losing everything by 69BC. Hence if anything related to Albania happened, it was during that short 15-year span - and that's easy to trace, check, verify. --AdilBaguirov 22:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijani

Hey Adil,

I see what you're saying now, I've reverted back. By "North Azerbaijan", you mean the country, right? I got confused for a second there. —Khoikhoi 03:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, by North Azerbaijan I do mean the Republic. It is an accepted terminology to differentiate the two Azerbaijan's, both in the Western literature and in Enc. Iranica for example. Thanks! Best, --AdilBaguirov 04:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It is? I thought the term Güney Azərbaycan was used primarily by Azeri separatists, while the more neutral terminology being "Iranian Azerbaijan".

As for the Azerbaijani alphabet, yes, this seems to be a common scenario for Turkic peoples who lived in the former Soviet Union (first Arabic, then briefly Latin, then Cyrillic, now Latin). I also heard about some decision in Baku in the 20s/30s saying that the Latin script is the best for Turkic languages—is that true? I believe it was called the Unified Turkic alphabet or something like that. Anyways, I have to get some sleep now. Görüşərik, —Khoikhoi 05:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in the West there are a bunch of books, like by David Nissman and Brenda Shaffer which use that terminology, so do Russian/Soviet authors, and here's an example from Iranica: http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/ot_grp5/ot_archeology_viii_20040616.html --AdilBaguirov 06:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Cartoon situation

Adil, I understand what you're saying, but his being half Azeri or not doesn't matter. I know it might matter to you and I recommend that you write on the guy's article page that he is only purported to be half Azeri. You want the Azeris article to look good and make it as a featured article right? I've already written two featured articles and I think this one can make it too, but only if it is clear and doesn't have a bunch of excess information that people can read through links and other articles. Just please trust me as I've talked to the other Azeri editors and Ali as well who has been giving us more credibility with the Iranica articles that Grandmaster also recommended and I think the article is okay now. Thanks. Tombseye 05:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. I am not against Iranica articles - or including ethnicty of Mana guy. But if the alledged by Iranian government ethnicty is included, then so should the one of the Editor in Chief -- he is a much bigger fish than some cartoon drawer. Can we perhaps remove alleged ethnicty (but leave all those references and links that are there so that anyone can freely read the allegation outside the article) or include the Persian ethnicity of the editor as well? I've never seen an encyclopedia mention, for example, that Eva Brown, wife of Hitler, was Jewish, or that Hitler had several Jewish generals and even a field marshall. Stalin and Beria, both Georgians, gladly killed a lot of Georgians, but it's never really emphasized directly, in-your-face, in any respectable articles. Thanks for handling this tough job -- I know you must be splitting hairs by now. --AdilBaguirov 05:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Adil, that is actually interesting. I did not know Eva was half jewish. That is a great piece of information. I think it is better that at least acadmeia tells us about all facts such as above. I wonder why they have not mentioned it!

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by mentioning in-your-face. Is that offensive to tell someone that a so called offensive cartoon, not related to us in anyway in my opinion, is not even aimed at Azaris and was drawn by a great cartoonist of Azari origin??!!! Some people had their own agenda and were looking for soemthing to pick up on something. The cartoon made a perfect excuse. It is interesting to see how many people were made to believe that it was offensive. I wonder how many people have read the damn cartoon. Persian Magi 06:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a bunch of info on Hitler and Jews, a very complex issue. The reason I brought it up is to show that ethnicity is irrelevant in many cases - the Turkic states fought most viciously against each other: Mongols again Timurleng against Ottomans -- all at the same time!

Meanwhile, I don't believe a cartoon can be an excuse -- first, ayatollah Khamenei accused the foreign spies -- which is ridiculous, as it was in state-owned Iran newspaper, and second, because 100,000 Tebriz residents (see the 8 min video available through Google video) cannot just assemble in an organized fashion - it had to be due to genuine outpouring of emotions and feelings, and they were brewing for several days after the publication of the cartoon, until reached critical mass. I know how this happens -- I am a witness of USSR's demise and have participated in many demonstrations and protests, so know the crowds. But anyway, my point was that the ethnicity of Mana is only alleged by a government that does not really stand for veracity, and that it doesn't matter, yet if including, the ethnicity of the editor, a much more important person, should be included too. BTW, what's worse, is that the cartoon was in the children's section. --AdilBaguirov 07:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It was not Iranian government who said Mana was an Azeri. They have never told us so. It was in fact Western media pointing that out first. In fact, supporters of freedom of speech and journalists are bringing that fact up. I have seen the cartoon. It was in no way about Torks.

I have seen the video and heard about it if not first hand, second hand. I was not trying to support Iranian government view that foriegners were involved. In fact, I believe they were not. But I doubt any of those in crowds had seen the cartoon. Unfortunately, after it was declared to be offensive, it became like a taboo to show the cartoon anywhere. People only heard about it and heard it was about Torks and how offensive it was to depict torks as a coackroach!!! That is it.

In fact the fact that the cartoon was in children section, makes you wonder if it was at all aimed at Torks or simply some people decided it was offensive.

Anyhow, it is sad to see people involved in any violence over a cartoon, be it about Mohamad or be it about Torks. I wonder when we are going to grow up and not accept the offense in cartoons by being offended by them. Persian Magi 08:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Latin Alphabet vs Persian Alphabet for Azari

Hi again Adil. Regarding Latin alphabet taught in Iran, they are taught for English usage only. Believe me reading Azeri in Latin alphabet is never easy for me whereas reading poems such as those of Shahriar in Persian script is far easier for me, even without all the vowels. (We only use accents for vowels in the first or second grade and the books do not have it at all apart from Quran and some Arabic sources). Regards, Persian Magi 06:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The difference between English Latin and Azerbaijani Latin is minimal, only a few letters. Just like there are German, French, Spanish Latin characters. The reason Perso-Arabic script is easier for you than Latin is because of habit. When Latin alphabet was re-introduced in Azerbaijan in 1991, the older generation -- for example, my relatives -- had hard time, but that mainly either because some didn't remember any foreign languages (they studied German during WWII or French, and forgot since), or because Azerbaijan was in such a difficult situation, that simply could not print enough books, materials, buy equipment, organize a better media campaign, etc. Meanwhile, all the younger people, as well as those who knew English or Latin-based languages, had no problem. My view -- each Azerbaijani should know at least 3 alphabets -- Latin (both Azerbaijani and prevalent English), Cyrillic (both Azerbaijani and Russian), and Arabic (esp. Perso-Arabic script). Hopefully, this will become true after the ongoing reforms in education sector. But anyway, the Latin alphabet of Azerbaijan is clearly best for representing the Azerbaijani language, and due to being simpler than Arabic, contributed to 99% literacy (Iran still have only 80%), and in computer age, Latin is also best. --AdilBaguirov 06:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Literacy rate is usually due to other factors. Alphabet is the last factor to blame. That is what Ata-Turk made Turks to believe; but look at their literacy rate compared to Chinese and Japanese. Japanese characters are one of the most difficult to learn characters and their literacy rate is 100%. In fact, you would not believe how they utilize technology in every aspect of their life and they do not replace anything with their valuable culutre. Persian Magi 08:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow

NK

Hi Adil, I've posted my suggestion Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh. Tell me what you think about it. All the best, --Kober 09:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Photos

Howdy Adul, here's an interesting photo gallery at User:Khoikhoi/Gallery. I thought it might be interesting for you - not sure if you've seen it before.--Kober 18:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually didn't see it before, thanks for letting me know. Indeed a lot of good photos! --AdilBaguirov 22:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Civility

Regarding edits such as this: Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Misplaced Pages has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. --InShaneee 20:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I of course didn't mean to offend anyone. Best regards, --AdilBaguirov 22:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Karabakh

Adil, nacilcin gardash? I have photos of Karabakh war, do you need them? if so let me know. Thanks. Ldingley 17:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, not really, at least not for right now. Thanks. --AdilBaguirov 17:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

3RR

Just a friendly warning for the NK page.--Eupator 22:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, but there was no 3RR violation -- I reverted only twice. Hopefully, no sockpuppets and ideologically motivated editors would engage in vandalism and thus make any reverts by such people as myself unnecessary. --AdilBaguirov 13:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Nice encounter after many years. I was corresponding with you years ago when you were in US and had this famous website. Drop me an email.

Keep up good work abdulnr 21:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Urartu

Look, Adil, as far as I know the Urartians are descendants of the Armenians. Whether they spoken Indo-European or Caucasian languages is a matter of debate. I honestly don't care what Britannica has to say (I don't see them as a reliable source, especially in regard to their treatment of the Armenian Genocide which they refer to as only "massacres"). What I do know for certain (and there are plenty of references that back this up), is that as the Urartian Empire fell, they merged with another local tribe called the Armens. The mix between both peoples led to the creation of the modern-day Armenian people (and eventually led to the establishment of the Kingdom of Armenia and the Orontid Dynasty). If you're attempting to disprove or put into doubt our national heritage or our history, please don't waste your time. -- Clevelander 00:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I just want to add there are more than 200 sources that back up my claim that the Armenians descended from the Urartians. Among them are:

• Artak Movsisyan, "Aratta: The ancient Kindgom of Armenia," Yerevan, 1992.

• M.Chahin, "The Kingdom of Armenia," London, 2001 "The new kingdom of Urartu, which proved to be the stronghold of the Hurrian race."

• Artak Movsisyan, "Mithraic (Mehian) Writing in the Kingdom of Van (Biaynili, Urartu, Ararat)," Yerevan, 1998.

• Artak Movsisyan, "Sacred Highland: Armenia in the spiritual conception of the Near East," Yerevan, 2000.

• Artak Movsisyan, "Aratta: Land of the Sacred Law," Yerevan, 2001. Ararat arev

• Martiros S. Kavoukjian's The Genesis of Armenian People, Montreal, 1982

• G. Contenau's 19th century text La Civilisation des Hittites et des Hurrites du Mitanni Paris. p. 62.

• Cf. the study of Neu 1996 with further bibliographical references.

• Diakonoff 1967, 165; 1971, 157-171; 1978; 1980, 103.

• Diakonoff and Starostin 1986; 1988.

• Starostin 1995a; 1998.

• HroznY 1916, 27, n.3 (the idea of a possible Indo-European or Hittite influence on the Hurro-Urartian

Nominative-Ergative in -Í/Íe, discussed later by Pedersen); Diakonoff 1980, 104.

• Dzhaukian 1963; 1967.

• Gamkrelidze and Ivanov 1984/1995; Xachikian 1985a, 53-54.

• Starostin 1988.

• 1989. Il mito troiano e l’eredità etrusca di Roma. Milan.

• Reichelt, H. 1978. Awestisches Elementarbuch. Reprint. Heidelberg.

• Riemschneider, K. K. 1973. Lehrbuch des Akkadischen. 2nd. ed. Leipzig.

• Ringe, Don, Jr. 1996. On the Chronology of Sound Changes in Tocharian. Vol. 1. of From

• Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Tocharian. American Oriental Series. 80. New Haven.

Kindest regards, Clevelander 00:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Urartu article dispute

Hi AdilBaguirov. User:Dacy69 has made a request for assistance in the editing of the Urartu article. According to Dacy69, the dispute centres on differing views on the ethnic composition of Urartu. You are not named in the dispute; however, I note that you have been involved in recent editing of the article, so I would be interested in getting your views.

Dacy69's request is for "neutral wording of section "Ethnic Composition" of page Urartu". From my reading of the situation, it appears that Dacy69 would like information about the Hurrit tribe to be included in the article. It also appears that he has provided evidence that some scholars believe the Hurrit tribe did live in Urartu. Is the evidence he provides correct? If the evidence is correct, and some scholars are saying that the Hurrit tribe did live in Urartu, then what is your opinion on that information appearing in the article? SilkTork 11:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Türkiye Portalı

Merhaba geçenlerde Türkiye Portalını seçkin portallara aday gösterdim Misplaced Pages:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Turkey. Fakat bir Vikiproje Türkiye üyesi dışında kimse oy kullanmadı. Gelen karşıt oylarla kabul edilmemiş oldu. Lütfen oyunuzu kullanın.--Absar 12:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

You just removed sourced information

Its funny, looking through your contributions, I see that you have told others not to remove sourced information, yet you have deleted a whole paragraph of sourced information. Revert yourself and take it to the talk page instead of starting a revert war. Your argument is baseless. If you continue, you will be reported to the administrators notice board for removal of sourced information unilaterally and POV pushing. Thanks.Azerbaijani 23:25, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've made clear every single action I've done beforehand on the Talk page. You've been very sloppy in your "quotes", mishandling them and misattributing things, when every word makes a difference. I would welcome administrators' involvement -- should we appeal to them jointly, or try to resolve it ourselves, based on common sense, logic and mutual compromise? --AdilBaguirov 23:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Once again, you have broken Misplaced Pages policy.Azerbaijani 23:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean "once again"? Secondly, I've done only 2 reverts, not 3, so no, I haven't broken any rules. Meanwhile, you have, through your socketpuppet. --AdilBaguirov 23:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Who is my sock puppet?Azerbaijani 00:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

First off, stop placing 3RR notice, as it's misplaced. Put it on your page, since you and your sockpuppet Pejman47 deserve it. Compare how many edits you've made:

1. (cur) (last) 23:45, January 24, 2007 AdilBaguirov (Talk | contribs) (→Major works - added years of publication of one of the books)
2. (cur) (last) 23:42, January 24, 2007 AdilBaguirov (Talk | contribs) (added "'Bir Kere Yukselen Bayrak Bir Daha Inmez' or 'The Flag Raised Once Cannot Be Lowered' quote, changed tautological wording "collapse" to "takeover" for more precision and variety.)
3. (cur) (last) 23:29, January 24, 2007 Pejman47 (Talk | contribs) m (rv,)
4. (cur) (last) 23:21, January 24, 2007 AdilBaguirov (Talk | contribs) (Again, user:Azerbaijani seems to misunderstand -- Goltz is incorrect in that very same paragraph about 2 year imprisonment and cannot be quoted at all, not being a historian. See Talk.)
5. (cur) (last) 23:19, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (→Major works - "etc" is not encyclopaedic, if there are more, please list them. Also, putting fact tags, as there is no source mentioned that he wrote all of these.)
6. (cur) (last) 23:18, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - grammer mistake)
7. (cur) (last) 23:17, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - more precise)
8. (cur) (last) 23:15, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - elaborating more regarding on what Goltz says "a broken man")
9. (cur) (last) 23:14, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - Adil was upset that the words were a different, although they mean the same thing, so putting in the words he wanted, doesnt really make a difference.)
10. (cur) (last) 19:33, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs) (reinserting quote. Nothing was taken out of context, the quote is directly from the book, and exactly the way the book has it.)
11. (cur) (last) 19:28, January 24, 2007 Grandmaster (Talk | contribs) (I think further evidence is required with regard to that quote. Let's keep out for now)
12. (cur) (last) 18:57, January 24, 2007 Azerbaijani (Talk | contribs)
13. (cur) (last) 17:58, January 24, 2007 AdilBaguirov (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - removed inconclusive, misleading and out-of-context Atabaki quotes)
14. (cur) (last) 16:57, January 24, 2007 AdilBaguirov (Talk | contribs) (→Exile - removed unknown reference to "Pan-Turkist politics" -- either quote completely and define what is meant by "Pan-Turkist", or do not confuse the readers)

--AdilBaguirov 00:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Pejman is not my sockpuppet. Stop the personal attacks, that is also against Misplaced Pages rules. Anyway, and admin will resolve this issue shortly. You fail to realize that the 3rr tag is a warning, simple as that. Familiarize yourself with Misplaced Pages policy atleast.Azerbaijani 00:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Pejman47 is your socketpuppet, and I've been at Misplaced Pages longer than you, so am better familiar with rules. It was not me, but you who have been found of breaking the 3RR rule on the M.E.Rasulzade page just earlier this month! So please take your own advice and re-read the rules, as well as take a more constructive and non-confrontational approach. I've outlined everything in the Talk page of the M.E.Rasulzade, and you have ignored it, resorting to various unilateral actions. This is not a place for that. --AdilBaguirov 00:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Obviously you have not read the rules, because you keep personally attacking me without bringing up evidence or proof. Did it ever occur to you that Pejman is another user who may have Rasulzadeh on his watch page? Familiarize yourself with Misplaced Pages's policies before editing please: NPOV, NOR, personal attacks, 3rr, edit warring, etc...Azerbaijani 00:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course it occurred to me that Pejman47 might be someone else than you! After all, all facts "speak" for that:

1) Pejman47 never edited the page before - didn't have it on his "watch"; 2) He made the reverse almost the same time 23:29, January 24, 2007, as you posted to my Talk page; 3) He never left any comments in the Talk page, despite obviously needing to do that. Nor did he justify why he rv to any particular version; 4) You've been reprimanded by Misplaced Pages for violating the 3RR rule on the very same M.E.Rasulzade page just earlier this month -- you reverted it 4 times in 24 hours. So I guess you learned from your mistake, and asked your alter ego "Pejman" to help out. Please don't use socketpuppets in the future, don't harass people with 3RR notices, and be constructive, not acusationalist. --AdilBaguirov 00:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Rasulzade article

hi, Adil, I am relatively very very new user and first my work was to update rasulzade article, but from my first day, this user calling himself azerbaijani bashladi mene mishat elemeye ve menim duzeltdiyim meqaleni o ki var korladi. sene hemin meqalenin orijinal versiyasini gonderirem lazim olar. and thank you that you stopped this vandal calling himself azerbaijani from destructing our leader's page. do you know what i found? user azerbaijani doesn't know the real name of Rasulzade,he wrote Mahmud Razulzade. look for http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators% 27_noticeboard/3RRArchive35#User:Azerbaijani_reported_by_User:Elsanaturk Elsanaturk 21:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC) and this is the original article: Early Life Mammad Amin Rasulzade received his education at the Russian-Muslim Secondary School and then at the Technical College (now Petroleum College) in Baku. In his years of study he created "Muslim Youth Organisation Musavat", first secret organisation in Azerbaijan's contemporary history, and beginning from 1903 Rasulzade began writing articles in various opposition magazines.At that time, his anti-monarchist platform and his demands for the national autonomy of Azerbaijan, aligned him with Social Democrats and future communists. In 1904 he founded the first muslim social-democrat organisation "Hummet" and became editor-in-chief of its newspapers, "Tekamul"(1906-1907) and "Yoldash"(1907). Besides, he published many articles in non-partisan newspapers such as "Hayat", "Irshad" and also "Fuyuzat" journal. During the First Russian Revolution (1905-1907), Rasulzade actively participated in revolutionary developments. As the story goes, it was Rasulzade who saved young Joseph Stalin in 1905 in Baku, when police were searching for the latter as an active instigator of riots.Even after the First Revolution, Rasulzade continued journalistic activities. His first dramatic play entitled "The Lights in the Darkness," was staged in Baku in 1908. Rasulzade in Iran In 1909, persecuted by Russian Administration, Rasulzade left for Iran to participate in the Constitutional Revolution of 1905-1911. While in Iran, Rasulzade became one of the founders of the Democratic Party of Iran and began publishing its newspaper called "Iran-e Nou", which was the first modern-type newspaper Iran' history. In 1911 he also published his book "Saadet-e bashar"(Happiness of mankind) in defense of revolution. After Russian troops entered Iran in 1911 and put and end to Constitutional Revolution in a cooperation with British and Royal Court of Iran, Rasulzade fled to Istanbul, where he founded journal "Türk yurdu"(Land of turks), where published his famous article "Iranian Turks". Rasulzade back in Azerbaijan After the Amnesty Act of 1913, dedicated to the 300th anniversary of the Royal Romanov Dynasty. Rasulzade returned to Baku and joined secret Musavat party established in 1911 by his instructions from abroad and quickly became its chief. In 1915 he started to publish party's newspaper "Açıq Söz" (Open word) which lasted till 1918. When February Revolution happened, Musavat together with other secret political parties in Russian Empire quickly legalized and became a leading party of Caucasian Muslims after it merged with Party of Turkish Federalists headed by Nasibbey Usubbeyli. October revolution in 1917 lead to secession of Transcaucasia from Russia and Rasulzade became head of Muslim faction in the Seym, parliament of Transcaucasian Federation. After the dissolution of the Transcaucasian Federation Muslim faction re-organized into Azerbaijani National Councill and Rasulzade was elected unanimously the Head of the Azerbaijani National Council(Milli Shura) in May 1918. During Azerbaijan Democratic Republic On May 28 1918, the Azerbaijani National Council declared an independent Azerbaijan Republic. Even though Rasulzade never held any governmental post in either of the Cabinets of Ministers, as an active member of the Parliament and head of the Musavat party he remained an ideological leader of the newly-formed state. In 1919 Rasulzade toghether with Rashid Kaplanov and Professor Razumovski with a financial aid of Haji Zeynalabdin Tagiyev, oil magnate initiated the foundation of Baku State University. he himself taught Ottoman literature at the department of philology of newly-founded university. After the collapse of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic in April 1920, Rasulzade left Baku and went into hiding in the mountaneous village of Lahij to direct the resistance to Sovietization, but in August 1920, after soviet army crashed the rebellions of Ganja, Karabakh, Zagatala and Lankaran, lead by ex-officers of Azerbaijani army, Rasulzade was arrested and brought to Baku. It was only due to his earlier rescue of Joseph Stalin in 1905 that Rasulzade was released and taken from Baku. For the next two years, Rasulzade worked as the press representative at the Commissariat on Nations in Moscow. He was seconded to St.Petersbourg in 1922 from where escaped to Finland and never returned. Rasulzade in exile For the rest of his life, Rasulzade lived as an exile in Turkey,Poland where he was an adviser to the government, Romania and finally, after World War II, in Ankara Turkey. In exile he published several books and journals, particularly "Yeni Kafkasya", "Azəri Türkü", "Odlu Yurd"(Turkey), "Istiqlal" and "Qurtuluş"(Germany).He died in 1955 and was buried in Esri cemetery in Ankara. Major works

• "The Lights in the Darkness"(play)
• "Saadet-e Bashar"
• "Iranian Turks"
• "Caucasian Turks"
• "Sayavush of Our Century"
• "Political Situation in Russia"
• "Azerbaijani Poet Nezami"
• "Azerbaijan Republic: Formation, Past and Present"
• "Azerbaijan Republic"
• etc

Rəsulzadə

Hey Adil,

Welcome back. The page appears to have been protected, but if things don't get resolved, and you've already followed the dispute resolution process, try making a request for comment or mediation. Also, Pejman47 is not Azerbaijani's sockpuppet, I can confirm this from personal experience. He probably just found the page via Special:Contributions/Azerbaijani. Khoikhoi 04:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

RE:Azerbaijan

You must be confusing me with another person sir, I did not say you were working with a political party, but political parties, quite frankly, I think it is different. As for virtual identities, for over 6 years, I have used the same alias here and everywhere else. I have also changed emails so many times that I don’t remember which one is the last and 2/3 of the times I forget the password. Because I get blackmails, threats(including death threats), including from your compatriots presenting list of names, which allegedly I am, not so long ago, such name was provided on Misplaced Pages in a talkpage to threaten me and force me out from here. But I am still honest enough to use the same alias. So Sir., when individuals like Sedat Laciner who happens to have published your crap in his newspaper, or Tabib who’s think thank is related with political parties on Azerbaijan are involved, I think I have the right to protect my back by filling my own investigation. One must be blind to not see something fishy is going on, new socks appears supporting already existing members, and who are allegedly new members and who know already all the policies, Misplaced Pages codes, administrators to contact, articles talk page contents of the last few months etc., one of those sock having appeared few hours near the same period you have restarted contributing after months of absence, and that your contribution was to revert to his change. You only reappeared with the AdilBaguirov account when I brought Dacy69 cases. It doesn’t take long to know that there is no way that some users editing the same sort of articles will vote in an interval of few minutes of a AfD of an article that they weren’t even involved ever could not be possible. When you claimed not knowing the user.

Oh, and it is of interest that all of the aliases I suspect being you, all know French, just like you. And that Atabek answer followed yours with an interval of few minutes. Fad (ix) 04:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Fadix, stop your insults and harrassment, as well as all those baseless allegations. As I told you, keep on "investigating" forever, I find you amuzing, to put it mildly. I've always used my name everywhere and have received more death threats and hate mail from your compatriots than you can imagine. Sedat Laciner is a Ph.D. and a good researcher, expert, which you are not. Similar with Tabib. Sorry, but still not sure about "political parties", although 1) why would this even matter in an sockpuppet allegation?! and 2) it's none of your business. What do you do, work as a junior associate for waste management company? Meanwhile, apparently both Dacy69 and Atabek are successfully countering the claims perpetrated by you and your buddies. Also, French is a very popular language and was a requirement in some schools in USSR, so no surprize there too. I understand if it would have been Swahili or even Chinese, but French? Funny. --AdilBaguirov 16:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

How predictible. Dude, the only reason you have your name placed there is that just like Laciner you have not credibility to lose, since you don't have any. Indeed Laciner is a good researcher, expert, who could even not answer an Armenian girl who had not much scholarity. This so professional Laciner just recently compared Dink with Talaat. So much professional indeed. But for sure, since people like both of you have the credibility so low that exposing your persona on the web could only higher it. As for Arabek and Dacy69, isen't it amazing that you bring the same BS Atabek brought? Follow contributions and you will see that there that I am even not involved with Atabek contributional articles, neither Dacy, beside his insignificant rv. which I haven't paid much attention to, except for the surprising links there are with bunch of meatpopputs and socks, today it has been confirmed that Atabek was a sock. I guess, my boddies arguments are so string that socks are indeed needed to conter them. Fad (ix) 21:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and another note, having a Ph.D isen't something hard in political science really, with much of the professionalism it took to both you and Laciner to get one, this is rather a confirmation than an evidence. It is not like it is physic or neurobiology. When I think that not so long ago, it required to make a differences in a field, a real one, when as we speak calling for the defense of the thesis is enough to require the title. Pathetic, some biggots have toyed with the credibility of this title. Fad (ix) 21:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a new all-time low by Fadix. Stop harassment and attacks. --AdilBaguirov 22:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

being in a new low presupposes a higher mark to begin with. Which was what I had been saying, exactly. You just confirmed. Fad (ix) 01:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Um.

Good thing I didn't? --Golbez 20:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I initially misunderstood. I've fixed the comment on your Talk page. Thanks again. --AdilBaguirov 20:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

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Shusha

Just a question or thought they seem to differ?

From Misplaced Pages: Considered to be a historical capital of the Karabakh region, Shusha was one of the cultural centers of Azerbaijan. It was home to many Azerbaijani intellectuals, poets, writers and especially, musicians (e.g, the ashugs, mugham singers, kobuz players). In 1977 it was declared reservation of Azerbaijan architecture and history. The city was known as the unofficial musical capital or conservatory of Transcaucasia.

From Britannica: The people of Azerbaijan have retained their ancient musical tradition. For example, the art of ashugs, who improvise songs to their own accompaniment on a stringed instrument called a kobuz, remains extremely popular. Mugams, vocal and instrumental compositions, are also widely known, the town of Shusha being particularly renowned for this art.

Azerbaijan's cultural institutions, including museums, theatres, and public libraries, are located in Baku. Many of them were established after World War II. The city has museums devoted to the art, history, and literature of Azerbaijan. In Nagorno-Karabakh there is a museum with material on the history and archaeology of the Armenian people of the region. Nareklm 21:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't understand the question -- I placed the citation to EB initially because there was a "citation needed" placed next to the first sentence of the paragraph from Misplaced Pages you quoted. However, decided to also add kobuz, mugham, ashugs, and thus placed the citation after the second sentence. --AdilBaguirov 22:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

By any chance are you an historian? Nareklm 06:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. I guess if Kavekh Farrokh is a historian and has a special page created for him in Misplaced Pages, with photo and links, then certainly I qualify too. Thanks for pointing this out! But this doesn't really go under "Shusha" :-) --AdilBaguirov 18:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, didn't feel like creating a new message box, i thought you only want to college in USC or something etc, but never seen anything about historian, you're pretty popular in Turkish news ya know. Nareklm 18:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've been quoted and written for Russian and US media too, as well as East Asian and Azerbaijani, along with Turkish, so it's a pretty international mix. But again it's a surprize for me that someone put my name in that list - but if lesser qualified people (who got their PhD's later and have less publications) are listed in Misplaced Pages with full-blown pages, photos, links, etc., then I don't object to my being listed too. --AdilBaguirov 18:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't get offended for the sock puppet things, its just unusual how they are so similar to you, this was before i posted those, plus I've seen your sites there pretty Anti-Armenian. I have nothing against Turks or Azeris unless one or another goes to far you know what i mean. Some people have said your an government radical personal etc unless they made it up or rumors. Nareklm 19:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I've got nothing anti-Armenian on my site or in my writings - bringing historic references, which show that sometimes some Armenians did bad things cannot be tantamount to being anti-Armenian. Likewise, you don't seem like a person who would blindly trust "some people" in other things -- why do you trust them in their attacks on me then? I think me posting under my name speaks volumes about me, my character and my understanding of honor and dignity. Clearly, I could have easily remained incognito, and choose myself some nickname like "Armenian" or "Melkonyan" and post under it, like what some of my critics do, but I consider that unmanly and weak, indeed, only unworthy persons do that. As of sockpuppets -- Khoikhoi is an administrator and it's easy for him to check whether this is true, or yet another baseless claim of my critic(s). What's important for me personally is that it's not me, and that I post only under my name. --AdilBaguirov 20:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with some things you say, but I've seen them, yes you base them on some historical reference but they are very negative for example its obvious why you're attached to Stepankert and other Armenian related articles, Armenians have inhabited those lands for thousands of years whether it was under Russian, Turkish, Roman, Byzantine rule. Also using Udi's as puppets against Armenians, doesn't seem right or Caucasus Albanians for example I've read some Azeri scholars about what they wrote. Anyway we won't find a solution to this the edit wars would not resume we should at least give both sides, a piece of the pie. Nareklm 20:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Qazakh

But if I unprotect the page, the edit warring will resume, right? We protect pages to stop edit wars. Khoikhoi 02:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

True, but it would be best if you or another administrator read or glanced through the Talk page, and noted for themselves that the issue has been on since August 2006, and thus user Aivazovsky had more than enough time to fix everything, something which he refused to do, and only grudgingly has partially done just now without much appology for keeping the wrong information on the page for months, despite repeated notices from other users. Then, your word to Aivazovsy to be constructive and not obstructive, would be better than just protecting the page, which will be unprotected at some point anyway and things will return to usual (again, it's been going since August 2006, we have been very polite and gentle in our requests, but have been largely ignored and obstructed). --AdilBaguirov 14:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Public holidays in Azerbaijan

Hi, would you (or any other Azeris living north of Aras) make articles for your public holidays? I specifically wants to know more about International Solidarity Day. thanks in advance--Pejman47 21:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you think holidays of Azerbaijan warrant a special page? Generally, all holidays get listed on the main page, like all directories and encycopedias do. --AdilBaguirov 04:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I think, they deserve separate articles, if you think they don't why not giving more details in its article :Public holidays in Azerbaijan--Pejman47 19:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Qazakh

I've left a short comment there. Khoikhoi 08:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Re. Karki

Thank you for contacting me. I have now unprotected this article. Hopefully the edit war is over, but I have watchlisted this page and will reprotect if the war resumes. Regards, Húsönd 16:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Block extended

Adil, I don't like doing this, but I've had to extend your block to 96 hours this time. It's pretty clear that you've been circumventing it with numerous IPs. Please don't do that. Sit your block out, and come back after it expires. Thanks, Khoikhoi 08:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, nothing is clear to me -- there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, just very unfortunate and wrongful accusations. I should not have been blocked in the first place -- not for 24 hours, and not for 72 and now 96. This is completely wrong -- especially from you, as you looked the other way when Aivazovsky violated 3RR (and that's proven, unlike allegations against me), or didn't do anything to Fadix despite his continued harrassments . You can't extend any block without any proof -- the check user proved that I am who I am, whilst my accusers, like Nareklm, use socks and are IP vandals . If my block is extended or enacted in the first place, then an equal or more severe should be done against Nareklm. So either Nareklm should be blocked or my block lifted ASAP.

Moreover, he threatened revert wars, going for IP anons: "if you guys want to play this game i will to, im not stupid i know how to find these things out, and i promise you its not going to be nice rv wars will start, im not threatening but alot of us are becoming inpatient"

He also expresses his intentions to Fadix:

"Hmm you are right i agree, but we should learn how to fight back because that is what we are known for i have a few tactics but i can't list them here, you remember that email?"

Remove the block from my account, it is completely unfair and groundless. --AdilBaguirov 09:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Unblock

Alpertunga5000 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

this is a total violation of all principles of conduct and rules -- there is absolutely no evidence to support any allegations against me -- neither have I been uncivil, nor insulting, nor using socks, nor 3RR, nor anything else. Only once on 14 Feb my browser didn't keep me logged in and instead of posting under my name, I posted under my permanent IP -- that does not merit even 24 hour block, not to mention 72 or 96. See above for some more details and links. I want a fair arbitration of this case because this is ridiculous -- an honest person posting under his real name is being unwelcome here, it seems, because a few anonymous users pour dirt, insult, harrass, vandalise, are proven to use socks and admit themselves being liers and harboring ulterior motives.

Decline reason:

Contribution logs show you continued editing from IP addresses, avoiding your block. Avoiding a block is a violation under WP:SOCK and merits at the very least a reset of your block timer, but it is up to the blocking admin whether or not to extend your block. -- Yamla 16:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

That's the thing -- I was not evading anything or anyone, my posting under my full name is best testament of my transparent and open actions (which seems to be less welcome here than some anonymous identity). If one forgets to check the box "REMEMBER ME" at , after a while, you get automatically logged out, and of course, naturally, you don't notice it for some time. In my case, I've done only 4 edits in that form -- and that's under the SAME IP as I have been posting before! What kind of an "evasion" is that, if you post under the same IP as when logged in?! Obviously I was not evading anything.

Moreover -- at first the admin said 24 hour block. Then changed it to 72. Now to 96 hours. This is obviously unfair, as such harsh treatment is not even done to REAL abusers, such as Nareklm (creating a sock plus IP anon: ) and Aivazovsky (for 3RR violation ), who are not even blocked for 1 minute! Their friend Fadix is also well-known as a constant harrasser who has been reprimanded by admins on multiple occassions. All of the above hate all Azerbaijani, Turkish and in general Turkic users, especially those against whom they can't stand in an open dabate, like in an fair fight. It's unfortunate that some admins become instruments of theirs, and inadvertedly further their cause and give them encouragement. --AdilBaguirov 16:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Stop it with your accusations, I have many good relations with many Turkish users here on Misplaced Pages. Stop polarising users according to their ethnicity. Fad (ix) 05:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

How can you be taken seriously and unblocked w/ racist and generalising comments like this one? All of the above hate all Azerbaijani, Turkish and in general Turkic users. - Fedayee 19:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Strange, wouldn't you rather admit that the racists here seem to be both of you -- when your buddy Narek makes similar charges, I've never seen any of you condemn him, which shows complete approval and complicity, not to mention double standards.

You guys make various disparaging and insulting remarks and comments about both Azerbaijani (and Turkic in general) editors and about the people in general, so shouldn't be complaining when one identifies such actions by its true name. Also, look who's talking -- a person with a user name "fedayee" -- fedayin, an Arabic term for some strange reason adopted by those Armenians in the quasi-military who killed innocent people, such as in Khojaly. I wonder if it's the result of so many ASALA terrorists who came from Syria and Lebanon to kill Azerbaijanis, and brought with them the "glorious" terminology too? Fedayin came to represent the same to the people of Caucasus as SS Stormtroopers in WWII. Consider changing your offensive user name first -- bravery and knowledge of a user is not dependent on a user name, but on his/her qualifications. If these lack, no loud self-given names can compensate it. --AdilBaguirov 01:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you realise you just called me a Nazi and a terrorist? First of all, to further the point that you know nothing about Armenian history, the term fedayee was first used by Armenians in the 1890s, long before anything called "Azerbaijan" even existed. Fedayee means someone who gives his soul for freedom or for a good cause. It has nothing to do w/ terrorism or your Khojaly. And please don't give me your god-awful advice on what to do w/ my personal user name. Don't give me your crap about being a good user when you yourself have been blocked for 72 hours. - Fedayee 03:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

What fedayin means is well-known to everyone involved, and in the current context, it doesn't mean any high-spirited things you've mentioned, only negative connotation. As of the block -- I think you were blocked for breaking the 3RR rule of the Dashnak party on 14 February, so what's this "crap", to quote you? --AdilBaguirov 07:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

My first 3RR for 24 hours, look at your block history and then compare it to mine. Your interpretation of fedayin is your or your Azeri government's POV and opinion. - Fedayee 17:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Care to show us what i said? Nareklm 01:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Why, did you forget? --AdilBaguirov 07:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed) Fad (ix) 02:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked Fadix for 24 hours. However, I need to remind you that remarks such as "wouldn't you rather admit that the racists here seem to be both of you" are unacceptable. This is also what probably caused Fadix to act the way he did. Khoikhoi 04:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it's clear that Adil provoked Fadix to respond. This is exactly what he wants. -- Aivazovsky 15:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Khoikhoi. Fadix has made many different insults to me, from the comfort of being behind his computer, so if I snapped a little bit, it's indeed unfortunate, because I don't like to lower my level to that of my attackers. --AdilBaguirov 07:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

panturkism and panislamism issues

Hi, Adil, i see you are blocked, never mind, I was blocked next day I created my account. I have a certain deal, what do you think, we should gather together all our arguments against panturk+panislamist accusations of User:Azerbaijani and his biased sources, because as I see all our arguments are dispersed among various talkpages, and when all these dispersed arguments would be collected, I do not know how, but, some among you, experienced user would request for mediation. because this guy has a certain intention to distort azerbaijani pages, and no talkpages can stop him/her from his "activities". so i think the only way to stop it by wikipedia administration Elsanaturk 19:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll send this message to other wiki azeri users Elsanaturk 19:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

It's indeed weird, to put it mildly, that despite abundance of facts, he keeps on re-inserting a combination of POV and non-expert quotes, when expert scholars, and Rasulzadeh himself, contravene him. I've summarized bunch of quotes I had on the appropriate pages, and of course would revisit them all soon. --AdilBaguirov 07:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

then i think this should be useful: Covenant of the Party of the Turkish Federalists “Musavat” (accepted in the party conference held on 26-31 October, 1917) Source: Balayev A. Azerbaydjanskoye natsional’no-demokraticheskoye dvijeniye. 1917-1920. B, 1990, pp 74-82; “Aydinlig” newspaper, 13 October, 1990.

Article 1: The form of the state of Russia should be a federative democratic republic based on principles of the national autonomy. Article 3: All ethnicities having territories of compact inhabiting n any part of Russia should receive national autonomy. Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkistan and Bashkortostan should receive territorial autonomy, Turks living along the Volga and the Crimean Turks should receive cultural autonomy in the case of impossibility of territorial autonomy. The Party considers as its sacred duty to support any non-Turkic ethnicities’ quests for autonomy and help them. Article 4: Ethnicities having no exact territory of compact inhabiting should receive national cultural autonomy. Elsanaturk 19:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Elsanaturk 19:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Good. I actually have Balayev's book, it's used and cited by Altstadt and Swietochowski too, along with a lot of relevant information on Musavat, ADR, Rasulzadeh, some of which has been cited and posted here by myself. --AdilBaguirov 01:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

Adil, your block just expired and you're back to an egregious amount of edit warring already. You have a 3RR violation at Tigranes the Great, and five more reverts to Nakhichevan and Urartu and haven't made a single edit to any of their talk pages. I'm reblocking you again, and hopefully when you return you will use mediation or dispute resolution to work out these conflicts. Dmcdevit·t 21:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Dmcdevit, I've written on every single page's Talk pages before, and all those comments are still there, some not answered. So I am putting back my quotes and edits that were removed during my absense -- please see it again. Also, I didn't violate Tigranes the Great page's 3RR -- I've done exactly 3 reverts, whilst the very first edit was not a revert by any stretch of measure -- it was putting in a new edit with a new reference -- all straight from the Talk page. --AdilBaguirov 21:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

First, user Artaxiad (aka Nareklm) reported me for an alleged 3RR violation on the Tigranes The Great page. Without properly investigating the trumped-up charge, administrator Dmcdevit seems to have jumped the gun, like a week ago, and unfairly blocked me per supposed 3RR violation -- and didn't bother to report that on the Administrators' noticeboard/3RR, under the report (perhaps because user Artaxiad then quickly erased his trumped-up charge). A quick check of the page reveals that I never broke the rule -- I did only 3 reverts, same as user Eupator who was not blocked at first despite INITIATING the reverts (only 10 minutes AFTER I was blocked for 72 hours, the user Eupator was also blocked, but for some reason only for 48 hours). In fact, user Narelmn (Artaxiad) realized the potential damage and fallout from such a deliberate wrongful accusation, and tried to remove his traces, which was noticed due to vigilance of another user, which I reproduce in full due to its well-written summary:

"Dear Administrators, User:Artaxiad has posted a 3RR report today, accusing User:AdilBaguirov. Although the report was false, because links under revert 2 and 3 were the same, administrator Dmcdevit blocked the user User:AdilBaguirov. Quickly after that User:Artaxiad (formerly also known as User:Nareklm caught for sockpuppetry and unpunished) has removed his false report. I have restored the report and added a comment indicating the concern, yet User:Artaxiad now started an edit war at Misplaced Pages 3RR reporting site reverting my comment edit. Can you please, address the issue. Below are (1) the original false 3RR report by Artaxiad, (2) Artaxiad's removal of the report after blockage of AdilBaguirov, (3) my comment, and (4) the deliberate revert of 3RR comment page by Artaxiad:

(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109649139 (2)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109652101 (3)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109657277 (4)http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR&oldid=109658298

I would like to find out why this user Artaxiad (a.k.a. Nareklm) is given so much freedom to abuse other contributor's basic reporting and RR rights. Atabek 22:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)" (see more: .

I should also stress that not only did I NOT brake the 3RR rule, but I did NOT engage in disruptive editing (e.g., no one from the community complained, except for a deliberate false charge by user Artaxiad (Nareklm), nothing in my reverts was not in full compliance with Misplaced Pages rules for verifiable facts, etc.), and all this would not even fall under the "electric fence" clause of the 3RR rule ("Editors may still be blocked even if they haven't made more than three edits in any given 24 hour period, if their behaviour is clearly disruptive"). It should also be noted that today was the first day of my editing in almost a week, and hence I simply could not have been "clearly disruptive" and warring for days, as the 3RR rule mandates ("This particularly applies to editors who persistently make three reverts each day"), in order to invoke the "electric fence" clause. I've edited all the same pages I've edited for MONTHS, on all those pages I've left extensive comments and scholarly quotes for MONTHS, whilst my opponents sometimes did not participate at all in discussions, and kept simply reverting pages despite fully-sourced and verifiable information, that has been supported and supplied by several other users.

Hence, I appeal to remove my unfair block immediately, and warn and otherwise reprimand those editors who have been baselessly reverting pages, thus engaging in real disruptive editing. --AdilBaguirov 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Alpertunga5000 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

See above, could not make it appear in this box.

Decline reason:

Your complaint of an unjust 3RR report is specious, as you did in fact make 4 identical reverts (, , , ). The fact that the reporter made a technical mistake listing them doesn't change anything, and your attempt to profit from that seems deceitful. Not to mention the soundness of Dmcdevit's block reason even in the absence of a technical 3RR violation. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Arbitration

I have opened an arbitration case regarding the current editing dispute you've been involved in. Please make a statement at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Armenia-Azerbaijan concerning the conflict with the other parties listed. Thanks. Dmcdevit·t 10:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

7. Azerbaijan. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved February 3, 2007, from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-44296