Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:33, 10 August 2022

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of best-selling music artists article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49Auto-archiving period: 10 days

List of best-selling music artists is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.

Article milestones Date Process Result October 27, 2005 Articles for deletion No consensus November 13, 2005 Articles for deletion Kept June 4, 2006 Articles for deletion Speedily kept September 2, 2006 Peer review Reviewed June 23, 2011 Featured list candidate Not promoted January 4, 2012 Peer review Reviewed May 28, 2012 Featured list candidate Not promoted Current status: Former featured list candidate

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Musicians This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Top-importance). Lists Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Misplaced Pages. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Pop music High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

edit It is essential to provide reliable sources when editing this article. For examples, see the references section. Unsourced or unreliably sourced additions will be removed immediately. The list is frequently edited in good faith to update the certified sales figures; however, claimed sales figures need to be supported by reliable sources, preferably from news organizations. Artists with claimed sales figures below 75 million may not be added to the list. Whilst we encourage editors to be bold, it is highly recommended to discuss changes on this talk page before editing. Below you can get an understanding as to when certifications for songs are added to the total certified sales of the listed artists. One lead artist and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both, the lead artist and the featured artist as both will have almost equal amount of part). Two lead artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as both will have almost equal amount of part). Two lead artists and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as well as the featured artist. Both lead artists will play a significant part in a song and the part of the featured artist also should be significant enough). One lead artist and two featured artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of the lead artist and to the total of both featured artists as almost all should have equal amount of part). The year next to markets below indicates how far back the certification systems go in each country. The percentages stand for the global market share based on a 2007 IFPI report. USA: RIAA (1958) (31.6%) Japan: RIAJ (Physical certifications since (1989)(16.5%) UK: BPI (1973) (10.6%) Germany: BVMI (1975) (8.4%) France: SNEP, Infodisc (albums), Infodisc (singles) (1973) (5.8%) Australia: ARIA (1990) (2.23%) Canada: Music Canada (1975) (2.22) Italy: FIMI (2009) (1.95%) The Netherlands: NVPI (1978) (1.52%) Spain: PROMUSICAE (1979) (1.48%) Austria: IFPI (1990) (1.10%) Mexico: AMPROFON (1999) (1.08%) Brazil: PMB (1990) (0.97%) Belgium: Ultratop (1995) (0.91%) Norway: (Archived certification-database) (1993) (0.86%) Switzerland: Schweizer Hitparade (1989) (0.84%) Sweden: IFPI (Archived certification-database), Sverige Topplistan (Chart-database) (1987) (0.81%) Denmark: Hitlisten (Chart-database), IFPI Denmark (2001) (0.67%) Ireland: IRMA (2005) (0.52%) Poland: ZPAV (1995) (0.51%) Finland: IFPI (1971) (0.49%) Argentina: Capif (1980) (0.48%) New Zealand: Recorded Music NZ (1978) (0.37%)

Beatles's 600m (inflated)

Harout. I begin to think that their 600m claim sales look too much and inflated. I will remove their 600m claim and let them just have only 500m claim for their sales. Thanks Politsi (talk) 06:21, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I still want to wait and see what RIAA's certifications for their singles in digital format will bring in. The RIAA hasn't issued any certs for their singles in digital format, and they would not necessarily be entirely streaming generated, they'd be retroactively issued certs. Besides, the 600 million figure is the one that's supported by reliable sources at the moment, the 500 million is supported by Daily Express, which is a tabloid. Are there reliable sources for the 500 million also?--Harout72 (talk) 12:37, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I put Daily Express only for temporary, at least it's a newspaper not a pop culture or a humour magazine. Once I found the better one, I will replace it immediately. Let's see if a newspaper like Times or Herald come with 500m Sales of The Beatles and there is no progress in their certified Sales. We should not used their 600m in the list. Politsi (talk) 14:59, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Surely if you think the Beatles are inflated, which I do as well by about 50 million, you must think Elvis is inflated as well, TruthGuardians (talk) 03:39, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I was analyzing a little bit and I also consider that those sales figures of the Beatles and Elvis are inflated, I think that this should be objectively reevaluated. AteneaZ3 (talk) 00:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I tend to agree with @Politsi. I think the list would be improved and more accurate if The Beatles' claimed sales were "only" 500M. However, how this change affects the list as a whole has to be taken into account. The Beatles' certified sales are 289.5M right now; however, Elvis Presley's current certified sales are 230.8M. There is a difference of almost 60M certified sales between the two music acts, so it would not be coherent if both had the same highest claimed sales figure of 500M. I admit that it may be a good idea to remove The Beatles' 600M figure, but then Presley's 500M figure would have to be removed as well, and there would have to be a discussion about what to do with Michael Jackson's 400M figure, or change other figures.

That would certainly be the right way to improve this list and achieve a more equal treatment for the artists. Otherwise there will always be more inflated figures for Rock music "classic" artists than for Pop music artists like Michael Jackson, Madonna or Elton John. For example, it is not proper that, taking into account that Elton John's certified sales are 206.9M and Presley's are 230.8M (which represents a difference of 23.9M), the highest claimed sales figure is 300M for John and 500M for Presley. 200M is a too big difference, and this also affects Madonna. Aside from that, I would also like to share this reference, which I think can be used to support The Beatles' 500M claimed sales figure. Salvabl (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your concern but we must use a source that free for read by everyone. Your source isn't free. Politsi (talk) 14:24, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Of course it would be better to have another open access reference, but in this case maybe it could be used as a secondary reference since there is already an open access reference that supports the 500M figure right now (we have to keep in mind that Misplaced Pages has many articles referencing books that are not always freely accessible to the users). Apart from that, there is also the option for the reference to contain links to both the archived version and the original, providing readers an open access to the content. Salvabl (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Let's wait until another free reliable source available to support their 500m. For now, let the Beatles standing with 600m sales.Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Eminem is over 250 mi

If you sum up physical and digital sales certified only in US and UK he surpasses 220 mi and gets a place in the first group, no doubt. Gabrielfmachado (talk) 04:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Then please find a reliable source from a news organization or a broadsheet newspaper that able to support Eminem's 250m claim. Bring it here. Politsi (talk) 13:46, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

In the occasion of Superbowl halftime show <https://eminem.news/pepsi-app.html> they appointed him as having over 520 mi sales (having 130 mi album sales plus 389 mi digital singles). Being 227 mi only in US as <https://deadline.com/2022/03/eminem-breaks-record-most-gold-platinum-singles-riaa-1234973487/> says and RIAA can confirm here <https://www.riaa.com/with-73-5-million-new-certifications-eminem-becomes-the-most-certified-artist-for-singles-in-riaa-gold-platinum-program-history/>, thus around the globe he's clearly got more sales, maybe over 400 mi if inflated. 2804:D4B:7717:600:6C70:42D2:D07C:8EA1 (talk) 21:00, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Eminem attained high sales before the streaming era, but many of his newer certifications are heavily influenced by streaming. Much like artists such as Rihanna (242M units in USA alone), Drake (316M units in USA alone) or Taylor Swift (189M units in USA alone), which millions (or dozens) of these certified units aren't actual copies sold. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Michael Bublé

Do you happen to known what are Michael Bublé's certified units? Outlets like The Irish Times have reported sales of over 75 million records. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 03:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

His available certified sales are 46.6 million. For 75 million claim, he'd need 58 million certified units as he's begun charting in 2003.--Harout72 (talk) 04:33, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Got it --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Rihanna?!

How come this mediocre singer ended up in the top-selling artists list? 46.251.84.165 (talk) 16:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Because the claim of 250 million is absolutely fake! In this article, albums, singles and downloads of single tracks are lumped together. Rihanna has primarily sold downloads and therefore, someone claims that a download of a single track (about one dollar) is as worthy as an album (about ten dollars). That's absolute nonsense. In reality, Rihanna has sold 33 million studio albums, 1 million other albums, 4 million physical singles, 258 million digital singles and 33 million streams, which make 103 million equivalent album sales and put her in 47th place at the moment among the best-selling artists of all time.

General credibility of this article

The claims of the sales figures listed here are based on inaccurate and non-verifiable pseudo-sources. How can it be that when it comes to "record sales", albums, singles and downloads of individual tracks are lumped together? How can it be possible that an artist like Rihanna, whose alleged figures of 250 million listed here mainly refer to the downloads of individual tracks, is rated higher here than an artist like the Bee Gees, whose sales figures of 120 million listed here have been primarily albums? An album has more tracks, more music, costs more money, etc. and therefore, is worthier in terms of music selling than a single and of course a single download.

Again: Formats with different values must not be added up and listed one to one, because different formats have different values and don't belong together at all! Therefore, I recommend the following source:

CSPC: The best selling artists of all-time as of 2021 - ChartMasters

There, the different formats (physical, download albums, singles, streams) are rated appropriately and an equivalent album sales figure is determined. This also invalidates utopian legends, such as that Elvis Presley allegedly sold 1 or even 1.8 billion (Of what actually?). Hence, Rihanna has sold 33 million studio albums, 1 million other albums, 4 million physical singles, 258 million digital singles and 33 million streams, totaling 103 million equivalent album sales, making her the 47th best-selling artist at the moment, while the Bee Gees with 161 million equivalent album sales are ranked on the 19th at the moment. Please consider this source instead of falling for any newspaper ads or management ducks.

Thanks.

Rihanna's certified sales

Can someone explain Rihanna's "Total certified unit sales" which supposedly is at 334.8 million (which would make her the best-selling music artist of all time by certified unit sales)?

I checked the U.S. sales numbers according to the provided source and the numbers seem completely off compared to what is claimed in this article. But maybe I'm missing something? Adriano 7 (talk) 15:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

You're not checking it correctly. If you only looked here, then that RIAA page lists the total number of certifications for the songs Rihanna is the main artist on. It doesn't list the certifications for the songs which Rihanna is a featured artist on. In fact, it doesn't even list the certifications of Mastertone format. Refer to this file for her detailed worldwide certified sales. Harout72 (talk) 19:19, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 August 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please make it right drake is not number one in sales that goes to Eminem by far so please change where it says drake is number one 38.34.83.22 (talk) 00:15, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:26, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

P!nk's career sales

A Billboard article published in 2019 reported that P!nk has already sold 135 million records worldwide. Is her current standings enough to raise her claimed sales now?

Link: https://www.billboard.com/pro/pink-legend-live-award-2019/ Loibird90 (talk) 13:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

For that kind of a figure, she's need 103.9 million certified units, since she's begun charting in 2000.--Harout72 (talk) 15:22, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh okay, thank you :) Loibird90 (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Phil Collins' Portuguese certs

Hey Harout, Ik you've lowered Phil Collins' Portuguese certified sales because of his 2004 album Love Songs: A Compilation... Old and New, that album received 2× Platinum (80,000) in week 50 of 2004 which roughly translates to Dec. 6, 2004–Dec. 12, 2004, a mere 5 months before AFP lowered their cert thresholds in May, 2005, so it's pretty clear that the 2× Platinum of 80,000 units for Phil Collins' album are legitimate. Moh8213 (talk) 11:44, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

No, I have Love Songs: A Compilation... Old and New at 2x Platinum (80,000) on my file, and we also have 2x Platinum for But Seriously for 80,000 units. Do we have anything else?--Harout72 (talk) 12:23, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Lmao! Another failed attempt of me outsmarting someone else, anyway looks like you didn't notice it but in the same source it says his album Serious Hits... Live! was certified Platinum (40,000). Also just found out that his DVD which goes by the same name was certified Platinum (8,000) in 2011. Moh8213 (talk) 12:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Yup, you're right, I totally missed that Platinum.--Harout72 (talk) 13:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 August 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change the error it says drake is the 2nd yet Eminem has sold over 100 million more records than drake so how can drake be the 2nd to Elvis when Eminem is proven to have sold more than drake 38.34.83.22 (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Drake_discography This shows drake has sold 170 million records

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Eminem_albums_discography And this shows that Eminem has 220 million which is way more than drake so drake is NOT 2nd 38.34.83.22 (talk) 15:29, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't see this claim presented in the article at all. It does state that Drake is the highest-selling individual artist based on certified units, which is true if you refer to the table entries for Drake and Eminem – Drake has a higher certified unit count than Eminem, or any other artist for that matter. Eminem does have a higher claimed sales count, but that's not what the statement addresses. There's also no comparison between Drake and Elvis – those two statements are measuring performance in different units. PlanetJuice (talk • contribs) 01:53, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Beyoncé

Her RIAA certifications have been updated so an estimated 77 million sales should be added to her current tally to make it 143 million. That would drive her to 189 million sales. I believe there are credible papers that have listed her career sales between 170-200 million records. 190.80.50.79 (talk) 22:30, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Michael Bolton

Hi. I would like to ask how many certified sales does it take for Michael Bolton to be listed under 75 million sales claim? Thank you. Loibird90 (talk) 00:05, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

He needs to have 40.1 million certified units as he's begun charting in 1983. His available certified sales are 38.4 million so far. What's the source that puts him with 75 million records? Post it here, once he's at 40.1 million with his certified sales, I'll put him up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 00:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Here are the sources for I found for the 75 million claim:

• https://www.musichall.org/events/Grammy-Award-Winner-Michael-Bolton • https://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2019030170324/michael-bolton-talks-challenges-faced-aspiring-singer/%3fviewas=amp • https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5649700/michael-bolton-age-net-worth/amp/ Loibird90 (talk) 01:33, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages featured list candidates (contested)
• Old requests for peer review
• All unassessed articles
• List-Class biography articles
• List-Class biography (musicians) articles
• Top-importance biography (musicians) articles
• Musicians work group articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• List-Class List articles
• Mid-importance List articles
• WikiProject Lists articles
• List-Class Pop music articles
• High-importance Pop music articles
• Pop music articles