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Revision as of 01:06, 26 October 2022 editNotcharliechaplin (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users825 edits →Do you think the definition is correct?← Previous edit Revision as of 01:13, 26 October 2022 edit undoNotcharliechaplin (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users825 edits →Do you think the definition is correct?Next edit →
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::So, it's the non-feminist opposition to some or all forms of feminism? sounds more correct... ] (]) 23:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC) ::So, it's the non-feminist opposition to some or all forms of feminism? sounds more correct... ] (]) 23:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
::I say, "Why ask me?" - ] ] 00:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC) ::I say, "Why ask me?" - ] ] 00:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes, the current definition of antifeminism in the lead is misleading IMO. The fact is that by that definition, various different faction of feminism would be antifeminist and feminist at the dame time which is contradictory. Radical feminist and sex-positive feminists appose each other. Same with Radical and liberal feminists, TERFs and TIFS (as you said) and so forth. What the central issue here is that there is a lack of agreement of what qualifies as feminism and thus what qualifies as anti-feminism. Whether rejecting some forms of feminism is antifeminist is dependent on what you believe is a "true feminist" and what is not. This of course if the ] in play. Thus whether people who endorse some forms or tenants of feminists but not others are antifeminists is debatable. Maybe we should rewrite the lead to say something like "Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is the opposition to feminism, though debate exists as to whether opposing all forms of feminism is necessary to be antifeminist or whether just opposing some forms of feminism also qualifies.". We should then, in the main body of the article, better describe the debate between different feminist strains/branches as to what qualifies as antifeminist since I don't believe a consensus currently exists even with feminism itself. --] (]) 01:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC) ::Yes, the current definition of antifeminism in the lead is misleading IMO. The fact is that by that definition, various different factions/branches of feminism would be antifeminist under the current definition in the lead which makes no sense. Radical feminist and sex-positive feminists appose each other, same with Radical and liberal feminists, TERFs and TIFS (as you said) and so forth. What the central issue here is that there is a lack of agreement of what qualifies as feminism and thus what qualifies as anti-feminism. Whether rejecting some forms of feminism is antifeminist is dependent on what you believe is a "true feminist" and what is not. This of course if the ] in play. Thus whether people who endorse some forms or tenants of feminists but not others are antifeminists is debatable and WP should not take sides in that debate. Maybe we should rewrite the lead to say something like "Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is the opposition to feminism as a whole or just, as some would argue, to certain forms of feminism.". Then we should then, in the main body of the article, better describe the debate between different feminist strains/branches as to what qualifies as antifeminist since I don't believe a consensus currently exists as to the proper definition, even within feminism itself. --] (]) 01:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
  • Ribieras, Amélie (2022). "'I Want to Thank My Husband Fred for Letting Me Come Here,' or Phyllis Schlafly's Opportunistic Defense of Gender Hierarchy". In Carian, Emily K.; DiBranco, Alex; Ebin, Chelsea (eds.). Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right. Abingdon, England: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003164722. ISBN 978-1-0005-7622-1.

One editor's opinion

one editor's perspective, but nothing to improve the article

This article reads like a hit-piece which seeks to criticize and invalidate views and perspectives the author does not agree with.

Feminism is chiefly a left-wing ideology that is disputed and contested by almost all conservative thinkers, and by large portions of the non white, English speaking world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Squiggly666 (talk • contribs) 16:48, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for coming to the Talk page. You are wrong btw, it isn't a hit piece, and it isn't a left wing ideology. You need to have pretty strong sources to say something like that. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 16:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Why are you thanking me? Who are you? And feminism forms the core of most left-wing thought, and is widely disputed by both conservatives and Christians alike. Squiggly666 (talk) 16:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm Roxy the dog, it says so at the end of all my comments on talk pages like this >>>>>> -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 17:07, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

In the mid and late 20th century antifeminists often opposed the right to abortion

Are they really antifeminists in general, sounds more like Christian groups and I think most reliable sources would back that up.

Antifeminists were more opposed to things like no-fault divorce, child-support, false accusations, family courts, depiction of men in the media, etc.

Pretty strange those things aren't mentioned in the introduction, huh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Squiggly666 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

None of this offers any justification for your WP:EW behaviour. Don't do that. Newimpartial (talk) 18:32, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Do you think the definition is correct?

Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is opposition to some or all forms of feminism. Sounds like feminists are antifeminists because, e.g. TERFs are in opposition to TIFs, radical and marxist feminists are in opposition to liberal feminists.--Reprarina (talk) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

@Reprarina: I think a major difference between antifeminists and those feminists you mentioned is that antifeminists do NOT consider themselves feminists. What do you say to this, @Roxy the dog:? Python Drink (talk) 23:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
So, it's the non-feminist opposition to some or all forms of feminism? sounds more correct... Reprarina (talk) 23:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
I say, "Why ask me?" - Roxy the bad tempered dog 00:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Yes, the current definition of antifeminism in the lead is misleading IMO. The fact is that by that definition, various different factions/branches of feminism would be antifeminist under the current definition in the lead which makes no sense. Radical feminist and sex-positive feminists appose each other, same with Radical and liberal feminists, TERFs and TIFS (as you said) and so forth. What the central issue here is that there is a lack of agreement of what qualifies as feminism and thus what qualifies as anti-feminism. Whether rejecting some forms of feminism is antifeminist is dependent on what you believe is a "true feminist" and what is not. This of course if the No true Scotsman fallacy in play. Thus whether people who endorse some forms or tenants of feminists but not others are antifeminists is debatable and WP should not take sides in that debate. Maybe we should rewrite the lead to say something like "Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is the opposition to feminism as a whole or just, as some would argue, to certain forms of feminism.". Then we should then, in the main body of the article, better describe the debate between different feminist strains/branches as to what qualifies as antifeminist since I don't believe a consensus currently exists as to the proper definition, even within feminism itself. --Notcharliechaplin (talk) 01:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
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