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Revision as of 22:32, 30 October 2022editundoGodBlessYeAndHisEntireFamily (talk | contribs)9 edits Misplaced Pages is a wretched and disgusting website, how it attempts to ruin the reputations on living biographies. You radicalized left wing nutcases will be exposed for the frauds and liars that you are. Lots of public wifi to spread truth in the edit summary. Lets play cat and mouse some more. Nobody intelligent gives a fuck about the propaganda in these articles. Lock every page. At least then the kids know how fraudulent Misplaced Pages has become.Tag: RevertedNext edit →
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:: <s>However, my feeling on this changes if more citations on this topic emerge. Do you have more?</s> ] (]) 16:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC) <small> Looking forward to the Polish sources, thanks. ] (]) 16:49, 3 November 2021 (UTC) </small>
:: <s>However, my feeling on this changes if more citations on this topic emerge. Do you have more?</s> ] (]) 16:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC) <small> Looking forward to the Polish sources, thanks. ] (]) 16:49, 3 November 2021 (UTC) </small>
:::@] That should be removed it’s ] - <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 16:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
:::@] That should be removed it’s ] - <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 16:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
::::I reverted it since the majority is in favour of removal. I would like the editors to <u>take notice</u> of the quote ] entered into this article that reads --> {{tq|''For a country still struggling to come to terms with its past treatment of Jews, it is outrageous to strike such a blow to the future of Jews in Poland''}}
::::I reverted it since the majority is in favour of removal. I would likke the editors to <u>take notice</u> of the quote ] entered into this article that reads --> {{tq|''For a country still struggling to come to terms with its past treatment of Jews, it is outrageous to strike such a blow to the future of Jews in Poland''}}
::::@] - Could you please explain why you chose to use this particular quote taken out of context and '''unrelated''' to the ADL? - <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 17:17, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
::::@] - Could you please explain why you chose to use this particular quote taken out of context and '''unrelated''' to the ADL? - <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 17:17, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
:::::<s>I chose it because it represented the ADL's stance on the issue. Btw, could you stop underlining/bolding various parts of your posts? It's an eyesore and does not lend your views any additional credibility.] (]) 17:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)</s>
:::::<s>I chose it because it represented the ADL's stance on the issue. Btw, could you stop underlining/bolding various parts of your posts? It's an eyesore and does not lend your views any additional credibility.] (]) 17:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)</s>
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OceanicFeeling123 (talk·contribs) has been paid by ADL on their behalf. Their editing has included contributions to this article.
Hersei (talk·contribs) has been paid by ADL on their behalf. Their editing has included contributions to this article. the largest authorship editor in this article. Declaration
After searching briefly for secondary coverage and failing, I removed the section (Oct. 30)
PjN reverted my removal with edit summary "easdy to find sources. the ADF went mad, after poland refused to lift a ban on such a cruel practise" and added a citation to a July 2013 Haaretz article (Oct. 31)
I did some copyediting on the revised version, assuming on good faith for the time being that this article contains substantive coverage of the ADL, since I did not have Haaretz access at the time. (Oct. 31)
Volunteer Marek removed the entire section with edit summary "it’s pretty much WP:UNDUE" (Oct. 31)
PjN reverted Volunteer Marek, es: "this is no argument. "undue" doesn't hold here. it's an important position of the organization" (Oct 31)
I reverted PjN, fully removing the section, with es "Rv, please take it to talk and explain DUE" ()
Reflecktor added the section back with es "This should be discussed on the talk page" (Nov. 2)
So as it stands, here is the status as I see it:
Two editors support inclusion
Two editors oppose inclusion
These sentences are cited to an ADL press release from 2013 and a Haaretz article from 2020 discussing separate events
Here are my suggestions:
For now, since there is not consensus to include this new material, I propose removing per BRD
I suggest supporters of inclusion find additional citations to justify inclusion. I do not oppose inclusion on principle, but rather do not see current sourcing as sufficient
My view is that some mention of the ADL view on shechita is due, like is the case with the circumcision issue. It would be undue if the section became too detailed or were one-sided, which I don't think is the case. Anyway, I agree that some consensus is necessary and I will try to offer additional input tomorrow after checking Polish language sources. As to due weight, I'd rather note that some sections already established like Relations with African-Americans seem to be disproportionally large. Polska jest Najważniejsza (talk) 16:26, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Reasonable section size (that is, weight) depends on extent of coverage in independent reliable sources. Compare the number of citations in each section (shechita vs. circumcision vs. black-Jewish relations). More generally, if you feel there is undue weight on some other topic, then feel free to be BOLD and fix that. Undue weight in one place isn't fixed by adding undue weight in another.
I reverted it since the majority is in favour of removal. I would likke the editors to take notice of the quote Polska jest Najważniejsza entered into this article that reads --> For a country still struggling to come to terms with its past treatment of Jews, it is outrageous to strike such a blow to the future of Jews in Poland
I chose it because it represented the ADL's stance on the issue. Btw, could you stop underlining/bolding various parts of your posts? It's an eyesore and does not lend your views any additional credibility.Polska jest Najważniejsza (talk) 17:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Disregarding specific problems with specific sources or specific pieces of content, which can be remedied without wholesale removal of the content, I am not sure how it is undue? I have not seen an explanation in either the edit summaries or on the talk page as to how this is the case. Reflecktor (talk) 19:22, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
@Reflecktor - Undue weight can be given in several ways, including the depth of detail. In this particular case, a coatrack text (WP:COAT) was possibly purposefully recorded to promote a particular bias. Is that clear to you? - GizzyCatBella🍁19:39, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes I am aware what undue weight is, there just (as yet) has not been provided an explanation as to how it is undue "disregarding specific problems with specific sources or specific pieces of content, which can be remedied without wholesale removal of the content", as said in my original comment. Reflecktor (talk) 19:42, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
DUE depends on the extent of coverage. If there are a bunch of independent reliable texts (preferably varied in source and over time), then something is more likely to be DUE. Right now there is a single Haaretz article that directly quotes a few sentences from Foxman without any additional analysis, background, or interpretation of the ADL's position. In general, this is not great. And given that the specific context that the ADL puts out dozens and dozens of position statements, I beyond usual don't think this is notable with current sourcing. Freelance-frank (talk) 19:44, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
I have reviewed the article and do not see systemic issues of a level requiring a maintenance tag at the top. I did remove an entire section about a petty lawsuit that settled for $350,000. The page of text about this lawsuit violated WP:WEIGHT and WP:NPOV. Otherwise, if there are remaining issues of concern to anyone, please list them specifically and I or others will try to fix them. If you feel a maintenance tag is needed, do try to be as specific as possible. Affix the tag to specific statements or sections whenever feasible. Jehochman14:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
Jehochman, thanks for the cleanup. Being the editor who initially tagged that section, I agree with significantly reducing it. However, given the news coverage spanning over a decade, I think at least a sentence or two about the Denver case is due. Are you opposed to a sentence or two about it being added back to the article? Freelance-frank (talk) 13:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
JehochmanAdded back a summary of this material. I omitted some detail to avoid bloating this coverage. If further demonstration of weight is needed, I stumbled across additional sources covering this topic that I could include. Freelance-frank (talk) 15:57, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
In addition, I am rating this C class, not B, because it appears to have gaps in coverage, could use better sourcing (still heavy on primary sources), and some sections might be pruned further. Some of the content rambles. This article has identifiable problems, but they do not appear so severe that an orange maintenance tag would be warranted above the lead. Jehochman14:28, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
If you could highlight any sections in particular for pruning or gaps in coverage, I would appreciate that and would work on those issues. Freelance-frank (talk) 13:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
The first obvious thing is that there's a 1970's section and a 1990's section but no 1980's section. Either that should be created, or the history should be organized into broader categories than decades. Second thing is to reduce the reliance on primary sources. There are something like 85 citations to adl.org. Ideally some of these would be changed to cite secondary sources, or at least secondary sources would be added to reinforce them. I've tagged a few instances as examples with {{primary-inline}}, but there are probably many more examples. If you can address those two issues this article might rate B class, or even better. Jehochman13:41, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
I've flagged the issues of possibly excessive use of primary sources in the section above. The article could potentially be improved by editing it to replace primary sources with secondary sources. Jehochman15:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Expanding political positions to include Democratic party issues
The ADL has taken on a dozen issues not relating to anti-semitism They list these issues on their site https://www.adl.org/what-we-do . The political positions paragraph needs expansion. Broadly they have taken on many issues besides antisemitism-- Combat Extremism and Hate, Bullying & Cyberbullying Prevention, Promote Respectful Schools & Communities, Immigrant & Refugee Rights, LGBTQ Rights, Voting Rights, Women’s Equity (and abortion rights), Education Equity, Criminal Justice Reform, Race & Racial Justice, Free Speech, Domestic Extremism. 173.246.202.44 (talk) 13:10, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Coverage in a Misplaced Pages article usually requires third-party coverage. If you find reliable sources that cover these topics, then it will be easier to include those positions. Lacking reliable secondary coverage, those positions will probably not easily be included. Freelance-frank (talk) 14:15, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 February 2022
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There's a duplicate date argument of "date=January 8, 2021" in this reference:
In early January 2021, the ADL called for the removal of Donald Trump as President in response to the storming of the United States Capitol and described the relationship of the storming of the Capitol to the far-right and antisemitic groups.
