Talk:Selman Reis: Difference between revisions

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			== Hoca Sefer ==
			I have removed the following paragraph:
			<blockquote>Selman Reis was later involved in defending ] against the Portuguese and their Hindu allies. He installed Pro-Ottoman forces under Captain ] in ], until the failed Ottoman attempt to expel the Portuguese in the 1538 ].<ref name="İnalcik">{{cite book \|title=An Economic and Social History of the Ottoman Empire \|first=Halil \|last=İnalcik \|page=324''ff'' \|url={{Google books \|plainurl=yes \|id=Ovg_RQlklU4C \|page=326 }} }}</ref></blockquote>
			There are two problems with it. Firstly, it's not supported by the cited source; all the source says that Sefer was "a man whom Selman had left in Gujarat", the leader of the pro-Ottoman forces there. Selman himself was no longer involved in anything because he had been assassinated. Secondly, even that account is contradicted by a more detailed source, Casale:<ref name="Casale 54">{{Google books \|id=Xf3h3Z1YQtIC \|page=54 \|title=The Ottoman Age of Exploration }} Giancarlo Casale</ref> While Sefer had been Selman's slave and had become his trusted lieutenant, he helped avenge Selman's death in Yemen. Only afterwards did he go to India with Selman's nephew and later became the leader of what could loosely be characterized as pro-Ottoman forces in Gujarat. So if Selman actually left Sefer in India, he must have returned to Yemen to avenge his master. Personally I consider it more likely that İnalcik got the details of how Selman's lieutenant ended up in India wrong. The article on ] says that Selman ordered Sefer and Bayram to India but the orders were only carried out after Selman's death; I haven't checked the sources there. I'm not sure Sefer is worth a mention in this article at all, but if he is, this paragraph wasn't the right way to do it. ] (]) 20:32, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
			{{reflist-talk}}

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Hoca Sefer

I have removed the following paragraph:

Selman Reis was later involved in defending Muslim possessions in India against the Portuguese and their Hindu allies. He installed Pro-Ottoman forces under Captain Hoca Sefer in Diu, until the failed Ottoman attempt to expel the Portuguese in the 1538 Siege of Diu.

There are two problems with it. Firstly, it's not supported by the cited source; all the source says that Sefer was "a man whom Selman had left in Gujarat", the leader of the pro-Ottoman forces there. Selman himself was no longer involved in anything because he had been assassinated. Secondly, even that account is contradicted by a more detailed source, Casale: While Sefer had been Selman's slave and had become his trusted lieutenant, he helped avenge Selman's death in Yemen. Only afterwards did he go to India with Selman's nephew and later became the leader of what could loosely be characterized as pro-Ottoman forces in Gujarat. So if Selman actually left Sefer in India, he must have returned to Yemen to avenge his master. Personally I consider it more likely that İnalcik got the details of how Selman's lieutenant ended up in India wrong. The article on Mustafa Bayram says that Selman ordered Sefer and Bayram to India but the orders were only carried out after Selman's death; I haven't checked the sources there. I'm not sure Sefer is worth a mention in this article at all, but if he is, this paragraph wasn't the right way to do it. Huon (talk) 20:32, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

References

İnalcik, Halil. An Economic and Social History of the Ottoman Empire. p. 324ff.
The Ottoman Age of Exploration, p. 54, at Google Books Giancarlo Casale

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