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Food and drink: Herbs and Spices C‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Related taskforces: /  This article is within the scope of the Herbs abd spices Task Force, a task force which is currently considered to be inactive. Food and Drink task list: edit history watch purge To edit this page, select here Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink: Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish Participate in project-related deletion discussions. Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this. Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here. Provide photographs and images for Category:Misplaced Pages requested images of food Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

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Salt

Is salt really considered a spice? If not, the reference to it could be deleted from this article. -- Heron

It's certainly a flavoring, and is used in the same manner as (other?) spices. I can buy it in the spice section in my grocery store, and keep it in my spice rack (or rather in the spice shelf in my cabinet, I haven't yet "made it" enough to have anything so luxurious as a whole rack just for spices). Just because it's mineral instead of vegetable, we oughtn't to discriminate against it. --Brion VIBBER

Useless fact: Salt is the only spice that gives no smell.....it's a spice.--82.134.28.194 (talk) 07:43, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

The present definition of spice still excludes salt. Is there any scientific basis for this? If not, it should be adapted to include salt.Kipala (talk) 17:47, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Template

Attention spice/herb lovers, I have created a template for all herb/spice pages here: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Herbs and Spices. Please contribute if you are interested. The first stage is to brainstorm the content and headings of each article etc... Then the next step will be create a template using a known spice, like cloves, or cumin on a subpage. Then eventually convert all the pages to the new template format. Could take a few years. But eventually wikipedia.org might be the ultimate source for reliable information about spices and herbs. dave 21:47, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Herbs are defined as the "leafy, green plant parts" which "may be used fresh." Then, under the classification of spices are listed "leaves and/or branches." Basil is given as both an herb and a spice. If the difference is that herbs are used fresh and spices dried, then a better distinction is needed. I can't accept that fresh basil from my garden is an herb but that a jar of McCormick's dried basil is a spice.68.65.122.80 10:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that it's nonsense to say that spices are used dried, not fresh. Fresh spices are far superior to dried ones in flavor, for most purposes, and fresh spices are very frequently used, especially in countries where they grow. We have to do better than this in defining the difference between spices and herbs. Michael 10:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.63.127 (talk)

Improvement drive

Spice trade has been nominated to be improved by Misplaced Pages:This week's improvement drive. Come and support the article with your vote!--Fenice 06:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Differences between spices and condiments?

Can someone kindly list the differences, if any, between spices and condiments?

You might add the same text to the article on condiments.

Thank you.

A condiment is something you as the diner add to your food at the table. It could be pickles, spices, or even some sort of sauce. Spices can be condiments, but that doesn't mean all condiments are spices. --Sophistifunk 23:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

According to Cyrus Todiwala, an Indian chef on BBC Radio 4 recently, that isn't correct. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_four/factual/food_and_drink - programme will only be there for 7 days though)

He stated that in Indian cooking spices are those things that the oils are extracted from, or that are used to give flavour to oil. For example, peppercorns, cloves, garlic. Things like paprika, turmeric, are termed condiments.

The guy's an expert chef so I'm personally confident that he knows what he's talking about. I've not been able to find a text reference for this though, so won't alter the article of course. Ride the Hurricane (talk) 17:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Acne?

I think this article should mention something about the fact that spicy foods cause acne. ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 04:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

We definitely need a reliable source first.

Peter 20:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard any reliable evidence that spices cause acne. Though Plato seems to have thought they did. Glynhughes (talk) 14:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Antioxidant

The article doesn't mention anywhere the fact that many spices have notable antioxidant properties, which make them health-beneficial and useful as natural food preservatives. Want references? See for example this paper: Bin Shan, Yizhong Z. Cai, Mei Sun, Harold Corke: Antioxidant Capacity of 26 Spice Extracts and Characterization of Their Phenolic Constituents. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. 53 (20), 7749 -7759, 2005: "Total equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) and phenolic content of 26 common spice extracts from 12 botanical families were investigated. Many spices contained high levels of phenolics and demonstrated high antioxidant capacity." 213.37.6.23 (talk) 02:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Turmeric is also a strong disinfectant and antibacterial agent. Might be worth adding if anyone can find a reliable reference. Ride the Hurricane (talk) 17:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Spices are used in so minuscule amounts as not to provide any relevant antioxidant properties to food, so this should be kept out of the article or explained. Cacycle (talk) 18:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe so, but as a disinfectant Turmeric is used with purpose in marinades. It is/has been an important part of making meat safe to eat in hot climates (eg India) Ride the Hurricane (talk) 14:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Some very well-known spices (such as clove, ginger, oregano, cinnamon, curry, pepper, paprika or parsley) have molar quantities of antioxidants reaching as high as tens of times those of foods marketed as "healthy" because of their antioxidant-richness (such as kiwifruit, berries, spinach or red wine). Even if used only in "minuscule" quantities (many recipes call for spices added in terms of teaspoon- or fraction-of-teaspoon-sized quantities to recipes, comparable for example to those called for added salt, which certainly aren't huge but neither "minuscule"), the fact that they are many times more rich in antioxidant content makes adding such "minuscule" quantities of comparable overall effect to other less-antioxidant-rich foods used in greater quantities. A gram of clove, in particular, provides almost a hundred times more antioxidants than a gram of kiwifruit (125.549 mmol/100g for clove vs. 1.325 mmol/100g for kiwifruit)—which means a mere "minuscule" 1 gram of clove (around a quarter teaspoon) adds as much antioxidant-richness to a recipe as that added by a serving-sized 100-gram chunk of kiwifruit. 213.37.6.101 (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

This is a general article. If turmeric, for example, is a good whatever, put that in the Turmeric article, not here. Dmforcier (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd say "many spices contained high levels of phenolics and demonstrated high antioxidant capacity" is a general statement about a characteristic shared by many spices, not just a specific fact about turmeric or a mere few singular spices. The current wording of the article's lead section makes spices look as though they are nutritionally "insignificant" additives whose only merit is adding "flavor" to a recipe, as if they added no other worthy-of-mention value to food than making it taste better, which hides the scientifically-studied fact that many common spices (such as clove, ginger, oregano, cinnamon, curry, pepper, paprika or parsley, apart from less-popular ones such as turmeric, basil leaf or mustard seed) possess non-insignificant antioxidant levels reaching tens of times higher in molar quantity per weight than foods nowadays commonly marketed as "healthy" because of their amount of antioxidant content. 213.37.6.101 (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

hey

This article contradicts itself within the first two sections. In the first, it excludes dried and shredded aromatic greens; in the second it counts them as a third of all spices. Oregano, basil, etc are not spices. I'd fix this but I'm drunk.

Turkish spices and herbs

Turkey is the leading producer country for most of the spices and herbs. The below spices, herbs and spicy seeds are cultivated in Turkey ad exported to the whole world.

Laurel leaves (Bay Leaves), Oregano, Yellow Sesame seeds, Sage, Cumin seeds, Rosemary, Fennel seeds, Fenugreek, White poppy seeds, Blue poppy seeds, Anis seeds, Thyme, Sumac, Whole primula radix, Nigella seeds, Mint, Linden flowers, Basil, Pinenut kernels and Apricot kernels. I suggest to check www.gnatrading.com to see further details about Turkish spices and herbs.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnatrading (talk • contribs) 22:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if the problem is associated with the web browser or other factors....

Look at my edit history on the section of Standardization —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.64.211.152 (talk) 09:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

ISO specification on the topic....

make me wonder if in the future all the Pharmacopeias will fade away and only has International pharmacopeia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.78.212.136 (talk) 09:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Does the Standards section even add anything to the article? Seems like the info could just as easily go into the References section. Dmforcier (talk) 18:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Spice racks

this section strikes me as very irrelevant, I'd recommend deletion --NinetyNineFennelSeeds (talk) 02:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Seconded.-neal (talk) 03:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thirded Beastiepaws (talk) 03:03, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Done Dmforcier (talk) 14:20, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Early Modern: Cultivation pre-1750

The "Early Modern" section had a claim that before 1750 people believed that plants couldn't be grown outside of their indigenous habitats. It had been flagged, but this claim is dangerously misleading. Counter examples that refute the claim are numerous: seventeenth-century England had many thriving greenhouses that grew tropical fruit such as oranges and pineapples, and the article on "chili peppers" cites the spread of the species around the old world following Colombus's return from North America. I simply deleted the claim and edited the remaining dubious (but not necessarily incorrect) information to read as a unified paragraph.-neal (talk) 03:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Production section

Just a naked chart with no label as to what it represents? If it's not improved I'd just as soon take the section out. Dmforcier (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I checked the source of this chart on http://faostat.fao.org/site/339/default.aspx This data is not for all spices, but is for spices NES (not elsewhere specified). There is separate data available for cloves, cinnamon, pepper, nutmeg, cardamom etc. This data is misleading as it is incorrectly represented as data for all spices

Spelling and British English

This article is not labeled as British English, thus "flavour" is a mis-spelling. Dmforcier (talk) 15:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Vanilla?

Is Vanilla considered a spice? It is never described as such in its own article, rather as a "flavoring". There are two occasions where it is listed as a spice in this article. Dmforcier (talk) 18:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I can't think of a way to define "spice" that would exclude vanilla. Beastiepaws (talk) 02:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

The pod certainly could be considered a spice. The problem is the extract. If it is, would lemon extract also be considered a spice? Just how distinct are 'spices' and 'flavorings'? "Flavoring' seems to be the enclosing category, but I'm no expert on culinary terminology. And on vanilla I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I guess the best approach is to not push the point either way. Dmforcier (talk) 03:43, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

So far as this article goes, I think it belongs. I don't see how the fact that vanilla can be used to produce an extract would make it any less of a spice. Beastiepaws (talk) 03:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

(I know its an old post) Yeah its one of those borderline spices. Sorta like mint, onion (you can get it in dry powdered form too), orange peel, etc. I think it should be included.

Henry123ifa (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Do animals use spices?

Mention if animals also use spices. And not just cats occasionally eating grass, etc., but them eating the spice at the same time as the main food. Jidanni (talk) 17:01, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Do animals cook? Then they can't use spices. Spices are certain veg parts used in cooking. Dmforcier (talk) 18:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Tricky question. One would imagine that sophisticated animals that eat many plants would notice the difference if two "good" ones were placed in their mouth at the same time. Or even eaten after one another. Eating under a black pepper tree will definitely impart a pepper smell to the air. What might be an insurmountable problem is that many spices are only used in the smallest amount. In fact, one of the points of the article is that in any large quantity, many herbs have "medicinal" properties -- read another way, that means "poisonous". My guess is that evolution has taught most animals to eat their normal food as quickly as they can gather it, unless there's a surplus. I.e., there are several factors working against animals using spices. 98.210.208.107 (talk) 12:43, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Popular misconception

Whenever I read "popular misconception" my antennae go up. In part because in fact the "misconception" may be correct, but especially in Misplaced Pages, because it signals someone is perhaps overeager to be there with the most authoritative understanding. I feel that's what's going on with the 80 word explanation in this relatively short article about how chefs in the Middle Ages used spice to one degree or another. What's particularly unappealing is what in Misplaced Pages would possibly qualify as Original Research on the part of the reference. Did medieval cooks use spices to "cover" less pleasant tastes? (Or rather, emphasize predictable ones that everyone liked?) Surely. Why would they be any different than cooks today? Was this generally NOT a problem for the rich or for special occasions? Well, obviously. Too much effort here is being spent refuting, essentially, the notion that rich people had to eat bad or rotting food. I'm scaling the statement back, accordingly. 98.210.208.107 (talk) 12:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. A lifetime studying medieval food has shown me no evidence whatever that spices were used to cover up bad or rotten tastes. No idea at all where the idea originates. Glynhughes (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I suspect the idea originates from a misunderstanding. Spices were prized especially because they could cover up the somewhat unpleasant taste of meat, etc that had been salted for preservation--so, it wasn't in any way *rotten*, just kind of...nastily bland, afaik. Tamtrible (talk) 01:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Ham, bacon, and corned beef are "nastily bland"? What? At any rate, there's plenty of good evidence that people who could afford spices had no trouble buying fresh meat. The spices and rotten meat claim was literally made up by JC Drummond in the 1930s PepperBeast (talk) 02:06, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm going off of something that is, admittedly, half-remembered. So I freely admit I could either be misremembering it, or have misunderstood it. But afaik corned beef *would* be fairly bland without the spices it is generally cooked with. And, at least as they are currently made, ham and bacon aren't salted or smoked enough for *long term* storage without refrigeration. And also, afaik, animals that were going to be slaughtered were mostly slaughtered at the end of fall, so farmers didn't have to feed them through the (often lean) winters. So, at least in late winter, fresh meat mostly wasn't on the menu for *anyone* unless you went hunting yourself (or had someone to go hunting for you). And the "only preserved versions are available" thing was doubly true for things *besides* meat--before refrigeration and relatively rapid long-distance travel, *no one* was getting fresh peaches or whatever in the middle of winter. Tamtrible (talk) 17:53, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Corned beef is not bland. Ham and bacon do not magically become bland because they are salted or smoked more thoroughly. Spices were literally worth their weight in gold. People wealthy enough to afford spices could afford winter feed for livestock; people who couldn't afford to overwinter stock couldn't afford spices, either. PepperBeast (talk) 20:02, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Most Popular Spices?

I think a section should be added on the most popular spices (eg. black pepper, var. hot chili peppers..etc) used.

Then there are other spices (eg saffron) thats not used as often or are consider exotic (eg. sumac, korarima...etc)

Any takers?

Henry123ifa (talk) 17:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I think this can be difficult to list them since which spices are popular is partially regionally dependent, but just writing more casually about them could work. —Kri (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Sichuan pepper

The by far coolest spice is the Sichuan pepper. —Kri (talk) 20:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Spice (musician) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:46, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Via Lisbon

"The Silk Road complemented the Portuguese sea routes, and brought the treasures of the Orient to Europe via Lisbon, including many spices." This unreferenced sentence appears in the article's history section. It seems to be a geographical nonsense. The overland Silk Road from the Orient cannot pass through Lisbon on its way to Europe. Is there any reason it should not be deleted? Michael Bateman (talk) 16:45, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Removed. Michael Bateman (talk) 12:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Merge discussion

Oppose. Advieh looks like a reasonable stub, and other spice mixes have their own articles. PepperBeast (talk) 23:58, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Oppose. The Spice article should remain concise. User-duck (talk) 11:17, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Spice

(copied from Pepperbeast's talk page) I would like to invite you to reconsider and not ignore supporting reference given in the deleted part. I agree more and better references are desirable, and every assertion should be referenced. Whether the references should be in the section about general spice usage, in the page of the relevant spice, or in both, should require careful considerations. If you do not agree to the mentioned alternative purposes spices may be used for (assuming you think spices are used solely for antimicrobial purposes - the one already in the article) then I suggest you add a moderating sentence and not delete valid content (avoid risking your deletion to amount to WP:OR). Or are you against a section title for spice use? Why? Cobanyastigi (talk) 13:07, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

You have one reference that says that piperizine increases the bioavailablity of curcurmin. The rest of what you wrote was pure OR. There is no 'careful consideration needed'. If you make an assertion, you need to provide sources on the same page. And yes, I do object to splitting the lede to make a 'Uses' section. I'm going to copy this discussion to the Spices talk page, because that's where it belongs. PepperBeast (talk) 21:31, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Spice rack listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Spice rack. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. BDD (talk) 20:05, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Please help...

I started a new article, Table of plants used as herbs or spices, but I have both finite time and a finite knowledge base (most of the entries I have added so far were basically me going "So, I know X is an herb or spice, what species does the wikipedia page say it is?"). It is under threat of deletion. Please add to it... Tamtrible (talk) 01:20, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

It got deleted, but I put a draft version (I think) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Tamtrible/Table_of_plants_used_as_herbs_or_spices ; please help me get it ready for prime time?... Tamtrible (talk) 09:42, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

It wasn't deleted because it wasn't "ready for prime time". It was deleted because it was substantially the same as List of herbs and spices. Improving that article might be a better idea. PepperBeast (talk) 11:30, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

It had a different focus than that list, and included things that aren't on that list, so, no, it's not substantially the same. There is a draft version here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Table_of_plants_used_as_herbs_or_spices , please improve it if you can. Tamtrible (talk) 05:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Tamtrible, talk pages are NOT FORUMS and you are spamming your desperate pleas across more and more plant-related pages. Please stop or this will become an administrative matter. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Allspice

I suggest adding Allspice. 49.199.210.218 (talk) 17:03, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

On whether to remove research tab content

The tab on research doesn’t add much information and much more notable information including other researches on spices could be in its place, I think it should be removed, it might also be wp:PROMO Bobisland (talk) 07:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Subject on health benefits of spices

i think my edit should stay up as they reflect the source and is common scientific knowledge, stating spices have no known health benefits contradicts the source Bobisland (talk) 12:14, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

I think we should remove the whole thing. The idea that spices have health benefits is not common knowledge. The source quoted is a review of studies aimed at determining whether biomarkers for the consumption of certain spices even exist. It does not claim that spices have health benefits. PepperBeast (talk) 14:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Agreed with PepperBeast. There is not WP:MEDRS-level support for the proposition that there are specific health benefits. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 16:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

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