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::Good point for exclusion. I was not aware of the existence of ].
::Good point for exclusion. I was not aware of the existence of ].
::We need to scrub this list of all non-transgender people whose inclusion is based solely on their gender non-binary. ] (]) 05:51, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
::We need to scrub this list of all non-transgender people whose inclusion is based solely on their gender non-binary. ] (]) 05:51, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
:::I very strongly disagree. This is beginning to sound like a grudge against non-binary people and I am this close to handing out warning templates for blanking. This needs to stop now! We are not getting into some weird hierarchical bullshit where binary trans people are treated as more "real" than non-binary ones. ] (]) 03:11, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
:::I very strongly disagree. This is beginning to sound like a grudge against non-binary people and I am this close to handing out warning templates for blanking. This needs to stop now! We are not getting into some weird hierarchical bullshit where binary trans people are treated as more "real" than non-binary ones. This is a list of transgender people not a list of only binary transgender people. That is made clear in the introduction. ] (]) 03:11, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
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Please allow me to quote the very first paragraph of the article Non-binary gender:
"Non-binary and genderqueer are umbrella terms for gender identities that are not solely male or female (identities outside the gender binary). Non-binary identities fall under the transgender umbrella, since non-binary people typically identify with a gender that is different from their assigned sex, though some non-binary people do not consider themselves transgender." (Emphasis mine)
Multiple non-binary people are already listed in the article and your insistence on removing one specific person is inexplicable to me. As I see it, including non-binary people here is completely uncontroversial. The only reason to avoid it would be in the specific cases of individual non-binary people who do not consider themselves to be trans. We do not want to apply a label that the subject explicitly rejects.
It was one entry that I saw. I did remove a second entry. As far as I can tell from the quote, non-binary is not the same as transgender, not withstanding the fact that the line separating the two is somewhat blurred. In my opinion, unless someone unambiguiously identifies as transgendender, they should not be listed in an article called "list of transgender people". That is, unless, we rename the article to list of transgender and non-binary people. --A girl in Latvia (talk) 20:44, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
I think that both the article I quoted and simple logic make it clear that a non-binary person is generally considered transgender by default. They were assigned one gender at birth and now they live as a different gender. They have made a transition. As such, being non-binary people is considered to be a type of transgender. It's not the same as being a trans man or a trans woman but they are still trans. Of course, nobody is obliged to embrace that label, and we should not include people here if they have said that they do not, but by default a non-binary person is eligible for inclusion here assuming that they meet the other inclusion criteria. DanielRigal (talk) 21:21, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
As expressed in the part of the quote you chose not to put in bold, there are a substantial number of people who identify as non-binary but who would not identify as transgender, if asked: they have rejected gender as a category, rather than adopting a different one. In other words, rather than being a "third" gender, they don't accept the premise of the question. The question at hand is whether we assume non-binary people are transgender unless they object, or only include non-binary people who also affirmatively identify as transgender. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonAQuest (talk • contribs) 01:43, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Unless we want to merge this article with List of people with non-binary gender identities and rename it, per WP:V I think we have to only include people for which there is sourcing where the person explicitly identifies themselves as transgender. I understand the argument that non-binary identities falls under the trans category, and there's a lot of overlap, but since the terms aren't synonymous, and a lot of non-binary people don't identify as transgender, I don't we can use sources that say the person is non-binary to say they are trans. Galobtter (talk) 02:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Good point for exclusion. I was not aware of the existence of the other list.
I very strongly disagree. This is beginning to sound like a grudge against non-binary people and I am this close to handing out warning templates for blanking. This needs to stop now! We are not getting into some weird hierarchical bullshit where binary trans people are treated as more "real" than non-binary ones. This is a list of transgender people not a list of only binary transgender people. That is made clear in the introduction. DanielRigal (talk) 03:11, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
"Detransition" section
This list is supposed to be about transgender people, and I don't see the point of including those who don't identify as trans. Consensus to remove section? I get that he used to identify as trans, but considering how there is only one person currently in this section and how it doesn't fulfill the purpose of the article... (Roundish⋆t) 01:44, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
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Not done: Fran Blanche is not a person. - FlightTime (open channel) 02:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Done – small jars 
Partly done: added model. Can you provide reliable sources for the other two occupations? small jars 