| Revision as of 14:40, 15 May 2023 editEkdalian (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers9,110 edits →Sources and quotes: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit | Revision as of 15:14, 15 May 2023 edit undoAbecedare (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators33,231 edits →Source: cmtNext edit → | ||
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| :{{talkquote|Kulin groups could be found among the three twice born castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha.}} P.29 | :{{talkquote|Kulin groups could be found among the three twice born castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha.}} P.29 | ||
| :I hope this helped, thanks. ] (]) 15:32, 14 May 2023 (UTC) | :I hope this helped, thanks. ] (]) 15:32, 14 May 2023 (UTC) | ||
| {{reply|Loudsheer|Ekdalian}} Here is a longer quote from Karlekar's review of an early 20th century autobiobraphy of a "Kulin widow". The extract is from footnote 2 in the article, explaining that term: | |||
| {{quote| Kulinism is a complicated system of hypergamous polygamy which was peculiar only to Bengal. Very briefly, a literal translation of the term Kulin: it is the highest among castes and Kulin groups could be found among the three twice born castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha; however the form of hypergamy described in Sekeley Katha was most common among the Brahmins. According to the principles of the system, a Kulin male could only marry a Kulin girl or those from a few other recognized categories of Brahmins. The system resulted in a surfeit of unmarried girls who were then married serially to the same Kulin man}} | |||
| She goes on describe the ills for women in this system citing: | |||
| :{{cite book |last1=Chaudhari |first1=Ray |editor1-last=Baumer |editor1-first=Rachel Van M |title=Aspects of Bengali History and Society |date=1975 |publisher=University of Hawaii Press |chapter=Norms of Family life and Personal Morality among the Belgali Hindu Elite 1600-1850}} | |||
| Does anyone have access to this work so that we can look up what it has to say Kulinism directly?{{pb}} | |||
| More broadly, perhaps we can cooperatively compile the relevant sources here to see what weight to give to Baidya's inclusion. On a cursory search it does appear that most sources talk about Kulinas among Brahmins and Kayasthas, and many articles cite | |||
| :{{cite book |last1=Inden |first1=Ronald B. |title=Marriage and Rank in Bengali Culture: A History of Caste and Clan in Middle Period Bengal |date=1 January 1976 |publisher=University of California Press |isbn=978-0-520-02569-1 |url=https://www.google.com/books/edition/Marriage_and_Rank_in_Bengali_Culture/P8b9A7J_v-UC |language=en}} | |||
| as a foundational work on the topic. What other works discuss the topic in depth? ] (]) 15:14, 15 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Sources and quotes == | == Sources and quotes == | ||
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Source
How this source is unreliable? Loudsheer (talk) 15:22, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- I have clearly asked for the exact page number & quotation! Please read the messages before responding! Ekdalian (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
P.29Kulin groups could be found among the three twice born castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha.
- I hope this helped, thanks. Loudsheer (talk) 15:32, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
@Loudsheer and Ekdalian: Here is a longer quote from Karlekar's review of an early 20th century autobiobraphy of a "Kulin widow". The extract is from footnote 2 in the article, explaining that term:
Kulinism is a complicated system of hypergamous polygamy which was peculiar only to Bengal. Very briefly, a literal translation of the term Kulin: it is the highest among castes and Kulin groups could be found among the three twice born castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha; however the form of hypergamy described in Sekeley Katha was most common among the Brahmins. According to the principles of the system, a Kulin male could only marry a Kulin girl or those from a few other recognized categories of Brahmins. The system resulted in a surfeit of unmarried girls who were then married serially to the same Kulin man
She goes on describe the ills for women in this system citing:
- Chaudhari, Ray (1975). "Norms of Family life and Personal Morality among the Belgali Hindu Elite 1600-1850". In Baumer, Rachel Van M (ed.). Aspects of Bengali History and Society. University of Hawaii Press.
Does anyone have access to this work so that we can look up what it has to say Kulinism directly?
More broadly, perhaps we can cooperatively compile the relevant sources here to see what weight to give to Baidya's inclusion. On a cursory search it does appear that most sources talk about Kulinas among Brahmins and Kayasthas, and many articles cite
- Inden, Ronald B. (1 January 1976). Marriage and Rank in Bengali Culture: A History of Caste and Clan in Middle Period Bengal. University of California Press. ISBN 978-0-520-02569-1.
as a foundational work on the topic. What other works discuss the topic in depth? Abecedare (talk) 15:14, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Sources and quotes
Hey Ekdalian you could have simply asked me for the quote instead of reverting me, anyway, this is the quote:
Kulin: Good family from the three upper castes of Brahmin, Vaidya and Kayastha.
Loudsheer (talk) 14:26, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't it too vague to be cited? Simply a glossary like definition without any context! Ekdalian (talk) 14:40, 15 May 2023 (UTC)