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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Khanate of Kalat. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:34, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Kalat (princely state) → Kalat Khanate – For centuries this was a khanate and only for a short time it was a princely state. Do away with the parentheses. Imperium Romanum Sacrum (talk) 04:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

• Comment. No great objection, but may I suggest instead Khanate of Kalat? The ruler was called "Khan" from the mid eighteenth century and the princely state was commonly referred to as that much more often than "Kalat Khanate". NB, the present article is pretty dire, it would be good if Imperium Romanum Sacrum could find time to improve it. Moonraker (talk) 04:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support for "Khanate of Kalat" - more formal name, just as we would refer to the ruler as the Khan of Kalat and not the Kalat Khan. Equally I would support a renaming of several other similarly named "princely states". 119.154.144.242 (talk) 14:39, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Fix in Kalat's History about Afghanistan

Hello fellow Wikipedian Friends, I have added on to Kalat's history with its mention of it being under Durrani Suzerainty under Source Iranica, let me know if you have any concerns below. -Noorullah21 6:16, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Kalat's Independence date is wrong.

Kalat got it's independence on 12th August 1947, not on 15th, as mentioned in the article.

https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/degrees-of-separation-prime-minister-narendra-modi-independence-day-balochistan-kashmir-unrest-2996390/

Adding The Truth (talk) 07:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

The Khan might have declared on 12 August, but it would have taken effect from 14/15 August, which were the official dates of the departure of the British. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 07:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Merges

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Unanimous consensus to merge. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:05, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

We know almost nothing about most of the rulers of this Khanate. It was not a significant pre-modern power and at best, we can write a single decent paragraph (or, in some cases, a single line) about most rulers prior to 1800. After that, courtesy British meddling in the region, we have considerable details about politico-military affairs of the state but biographical details etc. continue to be absent.

Ahmad of Kalat—under whom Balochistan acceded to Pakistan—is an exception and has not been proposed for merge. We also have a page on Khan of Kalat, which I have not proposed for merging. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: - FYI. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:08, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, good idea! -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:12, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Any ideas on what purpose Khan of Kalat might serve? Or else, I will add that to merge-list. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:15, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Khan of Kalat should merge, along with all non-notable individual khans. -Evansknight (talk) 20:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced template is not referring to the lead

Hi @Sutyarashi,

I saw you removed the top template and said "Clearly sourced". Some clarification, the top template is not referring to the lead. Its actually to the article as a whole. So, the subheadings of Geography, Subdivisions, Princely states under British Raj and Rulers of Kalat are not sourced. So instead of including a "citation needed" or "unsourced" template on each of those headings (which looks ugly) I just included one at the top.

So this is why the template was placed there in the first place. The lead is sourced but the other parts of the article is not. This is how it is for all wiki pages. Btw, the lead doesn't even need citations if it takes info from the contents in the article based on wiki policy. Danial Bass (talk) 22:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Danial Bass you didn't pinge me properly, so I didn't even receive the notification. Now I happened to see this while scrolling casually, and I agree with you. Feel free to re-add the template. Thanks! Sutyarashi (talk) 10:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Contested edit regarding accession

Please do understand what Neutral point of view means before adding it to edit summaries it means including all view points not just the one you like Amirali, Alia (2015), "Balochistan: A Case Study of Pakistan's Peacemaking Praxis (Volume III) this source very clearly needs to be expanded and its information included otherwise Salman Rafi must be removed censoring is not acceptable. 2A02:C7C:6782:7A00:A981:D590:5F91:AE83 (talk) 20:17, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Dear IP, what is meant by "Rafi must be removed" as well as "censoring is not acceptable"? Isn't that a contradiction? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Dear Kautilya please do understand my entire statement and do not crop the comment to misinform people I stated we cannot maintain npov while censoring out other view points and if thats the case than Rafi to should be deleted but please do at least try and be sincere when trying to misconstrue someones statement. I have noticed that many editors would like to paint a certain view which suits their point of view but when a counter argument comes along they try all the tricks in the box to divert and down play it maintaining npov takes much more than posting misleading edit summaries. 2A02:C7C:6782:7A00:A981:D590:5F91:AE83 (talk) 20:40, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Can we discuss the statement from Amirali, Alia now? 2A02:C7C:6782:7A00:A981:D590:5F91:AE83 (talk) 20:51, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

You haven't answered the question: Why should Rafi be deleted? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

If you are incapable of (or intentionally dishonest) understanding my reply thats a problem you need to address I have explained everything now you tell me why you are hell bent on censoring Amirali? 2A02:C7C:6782:7A00:A981:D590:5F91:AE83 (talk) 21:09, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Amirali irrelevant. She doesn't know and she doesn't have a view. She is included only because people keep inserting state-sponsored narratives, which she has summarised. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:18, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Amirali is very relevant considering its addition seems to be annoying those who only want to push one narrative in fact I would say reliance on one source Salman who was a student working towards his PHD at the time when he wrote this book also brings into question the neutrality and not including a counter summary would be censoring as always its usually editors from across the border who would like to paint one narrative. 2A02:C7C:6782:7A00:A981:D590:5F91:AE83 (talk) 21:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

For reasons described here, Rafi Sheikh (2018) needs to be discarded as a source. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure I would agree with you that he is a "propagandist". Even Axmann is saying it is unclear whether a referendum actually took place or not. And the "British-Pak conspiracy" is also acknowledged now. (see pp. 21-22).

Moreover, the text that was used here is not his own. It was summarising a book Balochistan, Azadi Say Subai Bai Ikhtairi Tak by Ahmed Salim, which was also reviewed in Dawn.

The Khan might have signed the accession seemingly willingly. But the scholars are pretty much unanimous that threat of force and actual force were still used, and it amounted to annexation. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 02:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Unexplained edit warring

@Noorullah21 mind explaining your recent reversions? Sutyarashi (talk) 10:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I told you in the edit summary the issue. @Sutyarashi

The Baluchistan iranica source you claimed stated that Kalat was independent following the treaty says it was under Durrani suzerainty, quoting:

"Because Aḥmad Shah needed Naṣīr’s support elsewhere, the new treaty was more equal. The khanate no longer paid tribute or maintained a force at Qandahār. Instead, Kalat provided a fighting force only when the Afghans fought outside their kingdom, and then the khan would be provided with money and ammunition. The new treaty was sealed by a pledge of loyalty to Qandahār and the marriage of the khan’s niece to Aḥmad Shah Abdālī’s son. In the settlement with Qandahār the final accommodation was that the shah gave Naṣīr the title of beglarbegī while the khan recognized him as suzerain."

Lee states:

"Following the loss of the Punjab, Nasir Khan, beglar begi of Kalat, convinced that these defeats marked the beginning of the end of Durrani power, declared independence. Sardar Shah Wali Khan was sent to put down the revolt, but when he was defeated Ahmad Shah set out in person to deal with the troublesome governor. He eventually defeated the Baluch army but was unable to take Kalat by storm. Instead, he agreed to allow Nasir Khan to remain as governor of Kalat in return for his resubmission to Durrani sovereignty"

Ashiq writes:

"The Afghan army besieged the Qalat fort and the siege lasted for forty days. The Afghans failed to capture it. Ultimately through the good offices of the Wazir Shah Wali Khan a peace treaty was concluded. Mir Nasir Khan came to Ahmad Shah and apologized for his misdeeds. According to the treaty Mir Nasir Khan accepted the suzerainty of the Afghan king. Ahmad Shah agreed that Mir Nasir Khan should pay no tribute, but should furnish, when called upon a contingent of troops sending them at his own cost to the royal camp."

The sources you provided don't provide well enough information. This includes Saddiqi, who also says later in the source that Ahmad Shah subdued Kalat. Carl also provides very little information other then the Rebellion. Noorullah (talk) 11:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

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