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Demerliac request 6 July 2023

Hi Rama, I was adding some info to Chaser (1786 ship) and noticed that in 1795 the French privateer Libertie captured her. (The Spanish recaptured Chaser and she returned to British ownership.) Does Demerliac have anything on Libertie? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 09:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Weirdly enough, I do not have any privateer of the name active in 1795, although I expect that dozens were active each year from 1790 to 1800. Could she have been a small naval ship, corvette or brig?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Great suggestion. I found a highly possible candidate privateer corvette that operated out of Guadeloupe in 1794–1795, so the relevant time-frame and theatre of operation. Thanks.Acad Ronin (talk) 17:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

French sources request 24 July 2023

Hi Rama, User:Broichmore approached me concerning these two files: La Mouche, and Cadiz. I can find nothing in my sources. It looks like both pictures are a tribute to a Captain Jn Adrian, first in 1799 as captain of the corsair Mouche, and second, in 1800, of the schooner Abeille. Does Demerliac have anything, or do any of your other sources? The English translation of the description under the first picture is pretty incoherent, probably due to a poor transcription of an almost as incoherent French description. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Please check my translation and date. Broichmore (talk) 08:51, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Broichmore: Apologies. Did not mean to impune your translation or transcription. I could not make any sense of the original text under the picture, and my attempt to translate the transcription made no sense either. Acad Ronin (talk) 15:52, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Me too. I ran it through Google and MS. I changed it since initial contact with you. Think the meaning is (my latest effort)": 'On 14th Germinal (July), year 7 (1799) of the French Republic in the lance of Colognia (Coast of Spain). Combat of the Corsair la Mouche armed with 8. guns. Cap Jh Adrian. Against a Cutter of 16 nine pounder guns for 4 hours, determined to resume his hold on Lavantoroso which the said Corsair had kidnapped from him the previous night when under his Escort'. My date needs checking. The inscription is very cryptic. Broichmore (talk) 09:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• Mouche: The transcription looks about right, with the word cotte for what would now be written côte ("coast"). Similarly l'ance for l'anse (narrow bay). You have most of the meaning, I just tried to put the words in a more friendly order:

"On the 14 Germinal year 7 of the French Republic, in the Bay of Colonia on the coast of Spain, 4-hour long fight of the privateer Mouche, armed with an 8-pounder swivel gun, under Captain Jean Adrian, against a 16-nine-pounder gun cutter, to recapture the prize called Lavantoroso (?) which said privateer had captured the previous night while was escorting ."

The only privateer listed under that name with compatible dates was a privateer corvette from Bordeaux, much larger and stronger than the gunboat involved here, so no luck.

• Abeille: the transcription and translation are both quite good. The image depicts Abeille as she manages to sneak through the British blockade, a feat of sailmanship from which one could quite reasonably take pride.

Abeille (no 2425, p.296 of 1800-1815) was a French privateer commissioned in Cadiz in May 1800. She cruised under Captain J. Adrien, who came from Martigues, from May 1800 to January 1801. Sadly nothing more is said here.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:37, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

PS: 14 Germinal year 7 is 3 April 1799 of the Gregorian calendar. "Germinal" means "the month where plants bloom", so in spring; July covers parts of Messidor ("month of harvest") and Thermidor ("the month of heat"). Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:42, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Excellent. Many thanks. Alas the mouche is not No. 1, which would have been a coup. Broichmore (talk) 11:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Gentles: In the article Moucheron, there is mention of a privateer Abeille operating out of Cadiz in 1800. I am guessing that she is our Abeille. The picture with her running the blockade would make a good addition to the article. Unfortunately, Moucheron is too big to be Mouche. I am going to add the Demerliac description to the Moucheron article. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Another interesting picture

Hi Rama, Acad Ronin I just added a Cammillieri picture here, albeit temporarily. I'm wondering whether or not we have identified the ships correctly, especially the Englishman? Slight inconsistancies between Roux, Cammillieri and the article. Build date for Comtesse Emeriau? Coincidentally, this sailor also comes from Martiques. This article gives Comtesse and Princess for the name of the ship, I begin to wonder if we have the same pirate, even, for this and the previous messages about the Mouche? Another article _ Broichmore (talk) 17:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

OK. The English ship was Harvey, Atkinson, master, of 260 tons (bm), launched at Whitby in 1802. The English account of the capture is in Lloyd's List. Unfortunately, I can't find her in Wetherill's book on Whitby and its shipping. If I could, I would be willing to chance a small article on Harvey. A secondary source and a picture would go a long way to establishing notability. An English article on Countess Emerieau would be possible, but would take a long time to prepare. Between the picture and the French sources it would be OK. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC) Acad Ronin (talk) 19:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

The ship was named Comtesse Émeriau, or Comtesse d'Émeriau, feminine (i.e. "la", not "le"). Probably sucking u as an indirect hommage to Maxime Julien Émeriau de Beauverger who was maritime prefect of Toulon, and therefore in charge of authorising such ventures in the area. Émeriau was a Count in the nobility system of the First French Empire. "Princesse" is not listed in Demerliac, and would make no sense given the context.

Comtesse Émeriau (no 2479, p.300), privateer from Sète commissioned in September 1809. From September 1809 to June 1812 under J.-A. Ytier with 110 to 118 men, and 11 guns (5 carronades and 6 swivel guns). Captured in June 1812 by HMS Badger.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Volcan and Conception

Hi Rama, Acad Ronin, I got this picture a while ago and seperately a cropped detail of it. The institution got horribly mixed up on the title, they differ for both images. I believe this is The Pinco Conception in Battle with Xebec Le Volcan, 1804. The Volcan is flying a British flag, RN? Its not inconceivable that the names are mixed up against type here. I can't find the caption, its been chopped off. Any ideas? Broichmore (talk) 09:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Not quite clear what is in the canton of the flag of the xebec, but it certainly could be the Red Ensign.

In 1804 the Republic of Italy was an ally of France, so either Volcan was the literal name of the xebec but she was in the hands of an enemy of Italy, or Volcan is a translation.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:55, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

It's this pic, that shows the British flag? Dont know if you saw it? Broichmore (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah yes, the image I saw was lower resolution, this one leaves no doubt. Definitly the British Red Ensign. Rama (talk) 17:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

French Naval Ship at sail

Hi Rama, Is there any value to uploading this image? Best regards. Broichmore (talk) 09:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

1. "The Marine List". Lloyd's List. No. 4507. 2 November 1810. hdl:2027/hvd.32044105232938.