Talk:New York Yankees: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 22:03, 22 August 2023 editCannolis (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers40,071 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2023: Responded to edit requestTag: editProtectedHelper ← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:07, 23 August 2023 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk \| contribs)Bots, Template editors2,298,161 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:New York Yankees/Archive 6) (botNext edit →
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	==Did you know nomination==
	{{Template:Did you know nominations/New York Yankees}}

	{{ping\|Bruxton\|Andrew Davidson\|Tintor2}}, the hook says "that the ''']''' were first named after a ]", while the text says that "Fans believed the name was chosen because of the team's elevated location in Upper Manhattan, or as a nod to team president Joseph Gordon's Scottish-Irish heritage (the ] were a well known Scottish military unit).<ref>{{Cite news \|last=Lamb \|first=Bill \|title=Joseph Gordon \|work=] \|url=https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/joseph-gordon/ \|access-date=July 5, 2022 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220319044610/https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/joseph-gordon/ \|archive-date=March 19, 2022}}</ref><ref name="Appel 2012">{{Cite book \|last=Appel \|first=Marty \|title=Pinstripe Empire: The New York Yankees From Before the Babe to After the Boss \|publisher=] \|year=2012 \|isbn=9781608194926 \|language=en \|author-link=Marty Appel}}</ref>{{rp\|pages=18}}" I think the hook should be tweaked or replaced as it is oversimplified: it changes "Fans believed" into a statement of fact and two alternatives into one. ] (]) 08:56, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

	:The Highlanders <u>name</u> was taken from the regiment and is a ] on words as it alludes to both the owner and the elevation. See and ]. Putting all the elements in the hook would be too complex as it's supposed to be a hook, not an elaborate explanation. ]🐉(]) 10:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

	::{{ping\|Andrew Davidson\|LuK3}}, first, I will admit that I know little about baseball. I queried the hook as it should contain a fact from the article and be supported by an inline citation in the article (]). The current wording of the article doesn't support the wording of the hook and nor does the following online reference, which says "The derivation of the team’s nickname is unsettled." I could not access ''Pinstripe Empire''. The link you provided could support the hook, however medium.com is a blog site. Is Steven C. Owens a subject expert? ] (]) 11:22, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::{{ping\|Andrew Davidson\|Tintor2\|TSventon}} I do dislike it when we make every hook as literal as possible. With that said, I would not be opposed to adding "Fans believed". I think if you want to add two team name options or any other information the hook will be ruined and definitely not quirky. As Andrew said adding elements makes a hook too complex. I put this in the quirky slot. Recently we had a quirky slot hook discussion where I thought our hook was an ]. . ...that from the old Chicago Station, a 5 cent fare would get you as far west as California? - a person had to solve a puzzle to see that hook in the article. That Chicago station hook was not error reported as far as I know and the hook had 9,220 views. ] (]) 15:33, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::I'm British and so quite like baseball history (it's a ], doncha know). So, I happen to have a copy of the ''Cultural Encyclopedia of Baseball'' which I bought specifically for this kind of issue. Getting it out, I find that it has several pages about the Yankees including:{{quote\|The Highlanders name supposedly was created when Joseph W. Gordon was appointed the first president of the team. At the time, there was a famous British regiment known as Gordon's Highlanders. In addition, the team played at the highest point in Manhattan, Washington Heights. ... There are several versions of how the name Yankees was adopted. The local Irish population objected to Highlanders because it was a Scottish nickname...}}There's quite a bit more and I can perhaps expand the article using this source to confirm that the regiment usually comes into it.
	:::]🐉(]) 17:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
	::::I think that works. ] (]) 17:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::::Changing the article text could work, {{ping\|LuK3}}, could you comment as GA and DYK nominator? ] (]) 08:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	::::::Apologies for the long reply time. I have no objections to updating the article text to reflect the updated hook. I can try and do it sometime tonight or tomorrow. {{hidden ping\|TSventon}} -- '''] ]''' 23:08, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	{{Reflist-talk}}

	== Splitting Baltimore Orioles into its own article (while keeping some information for background) ==		== Splitting Baltimore Orioles into its own article (while keeping some information for background) ==

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A fact from this article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 13, 2023.The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the New York Yankees* were first named after a Scottish regiment?*
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Splitting Baltimore Orioles into its own article (while keeping some information for background)

I want to preface my own personal disagreement with this, but per this very article, MLB, Baseball-Reference, and several other credible baseball sources, the 1901 Baltimore Orioles are not considered to be the same franchise as the 1903-present New York Yankees. The Orioles should have their own dedicated page located at the current redirect page here: Baltimore Orioles (1901–02). I'd personally split it myself, but I'm avoiding WP:BOLD since IMO, the scale of this move is maybe too big (even if the destination article itself may be small).

I figure some discussion should occur before anything is done.Spesh531 20:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Spesh, as someone who was the primary contributor for the Yankees history FA who could have to edit part of that article depending on how this goes, I'd like to kindly suggest that you bring this topic up at the baseball WikiProject. You're much more likely to get commentary quickly by mentioning it there than just having a split request here, and you'll also expose the topic to wider attention. I don't know if the project has a consensus on this issue, but if so that's the best way to find out, and to seek a change to the consensus. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:48, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm in favor of a split, being that I was the one who finally bit the bullet and reworked the article to reflect the position of the official historian of MLB and the team itself. Previous comments in the archives against such a split were based on incomplete understanding of the situation. LuK3, one of the most frequent contributors to this article in recent history, and I in a subsequent discussion tossed around the idea of a split, but neither of us have followed through. It's definitely time. The teams are officially separate, they should have a separate article. I'd just note that there's really nothing to take out of this article, though, as it's already a pretty minimal coverage of the background. oknazevad (talk) 16:53, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I just posted a pointer to this page's discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Baseball —— Shakescene (talk) 19:40, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I can't remember where, but an RFC was held on these matters (franchise relocations), about a year or more ago. GoodDay (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

That's the thing though, it's not a relocation. The 1901–02 Orioles failed midseason when the manager/part-owner bolted to the New York Giants, taking a bunch of players with him. The franchise was taken over by the league to pay out the string with layers loaned from other teams, and then folded and outright replaced with a new team in New York before the following season. It's not the same franchise, per the official historian of MLB.

Anyway, the major topic of the discussion referred to was what to name sub-articles about the historic periods of relocated franchises, ie, Brooklyn Dodgers vs History of the Brooklyn Dodgers. The latter had been in use, but the discussion came to the conclusion that shorter is better. So, taking that into account, a separate article for Baltimore Orioles (1901–1902) would be in line with that consensus. oknazevad (talk) 21:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Narrowly with regards to the article title, if this were to move forward, it should utilize four-digit years: Baltimore Orioles (1901–1902). Dmoore5556 (talk) 05:01, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I've done the work myself! Find the page here: Baltimore Orioles (1901–1902). I feel as the page could use some improvement. I combined any information I could find on the New York Yankees and history of New York Yankees articles, added a little information that was not already stated, and made the legacy section focus on baseball in Baltimore in general, and less so about the Yankees after their move in 1903. Finding information on this team outside of "the team had their biggest victory, scoring 11 runs etc." was a bit difficult, and it seems the Yankees pages already covered 90-95% of information that was usable. Maybe the Yankees pages should discuss the Baltimore Orioles (1901–1902) more generally, since current historiography around the relationship of the two teams point to them being different, and not a continuation (like the St. Louis Browns and modern Baltimore Orioles are.) Spesh531 06:17, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I like it. oknazevad (talk) 07:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2023

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The most successful professional sports team in the United States. 2600:4040:96DF:3E00:A828:CEF5:2E1F:EB5D (talk) 21:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

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