Misplaced Pages

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User interface feedback

Not sure where I can put this down but someone in a training was a bit confused by the words "publish changes" versus "save" especially while editing in the sandbox. I think they would have understood "save" in that context better than "publish". I understand that it can be termed as an education issue but I think we should note confusions like this somewhere. Would be happy to be directed to a better venue. Shyamal (talk) 11:33, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

IIRC "save" was changed to "publish" at some point because some people in other user experiments didn't realize that "save" would immediately make things publicly visible (versus saving a draft or submitting for some sort of review before publishing). Anomie⚔ 12:29, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

See the announcement on this board (almost six years ago now!): Misplaced Pages:Village_pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 57#Change to the edit submission button label. 57.140.16.29 (talk) 14:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I forgot, this user's expectation was that it should automatically save as draft - I am sure the gmail interface has set this expectation. Shyamal (talk) 06:35, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Also WordPress, which allows saving a private draft before (scheduled) publication. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I remember being confused by this too back when I was a new editor—"publish" sounds like it should move the sandbox/draft to mainspace. I'm not sure there's an easy solution, though, since (as Anomie notes) the alternative has the potential to be equally confusing. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

A clearer term would be better but it's hard to find one. Some e-mail software uses "Send" but that's just as ambiguous here – are we sending to article space? "Post" is a possibility but hints at social media and might encourage unconstructive "posts" – hi i'm N00b420 how is every1? Certes (talk) 19:33, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I do remember when I was editing as an IP, I was writing a draft (a very poorly sourced one, if I remember, that would in no way have passed AfC), I spent the whole time in preview and visual editor because the "publish changes" button was so intimidating. I can't remember if I ever even published the draft. I certainly never submitted it. Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

The current status definitely does seem confusing to newer editors, especially since we talk about "publishing" drafts to mainspace upon AfC acceptance (that is, the second editorial concern around the proposed label change has been borne out in practice). Maybe a single word is not what we're looking for. "Save publicly"? "Save (publicly visible)"? "Publish to FULLPAGENAME"? Folly Mox (talk) 18:07, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Moving a page from draftspace to mainspace should never be described as "publishing". Publishing is the act of making something available to the public. That happens when you click the big blue button. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way to find certain templates in an article?

If not, then I think that would be a good feature for those of us on mobile. It’s a feature on computers that you can search specific characters in a web page, but mobile doesn’t have that. It would be really handy to be able to search for a “citation needed” template in an article and jump to it. Professor Penguino (talk) 06:55, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

This sounds like an issue to raise with whoever makes your phone browser. On my phone, both Firefox and Chrome have a "find in page" option under their ⋮ menu. Anomie⚔ 12:02, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Safari on iPhones have that option too, under the Share menu of all things. (Though I will say if one uses the Hide IP Address VPN that Apple provides, the "Your IP address has been blocked from editing Misplaced Pages" popup that appears if one attempts to edit an unprotected page doesn't actually provide any way to see that page's source.) 2603:8001:4542:28FB:B0C2:E6A5:3653:3559 (talk) 15:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I found it. I feel pretty stupid now lol. Well, have a good one! Professor Penguino (talk) 18:52, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I think it took me two years to find that option on my phone. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:00, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Same, except it took me 4 years. :) It’s really hidden. Professor Penguino (talk) 04:46, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom Electoral Commission nominations open

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nominations for the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections are now open. — Frostly (talk) 22:14, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:ACE Election Commission - Call for candidates

Hello all, qualified editors are invited to self-nominate for the 2022 Arbitration Committee Elections Electoral Commission. Those interested should list themselves on this page. Commissioners are empowered to make binding decisions on unexpected or exception issues related to the election, and some other duties specified in Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Arbitration Committee Elections/ACERFC decisions to date. This is a single-term position lasting until the end of the December election. Thank you, -- Asartea 07:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Reminder, the deadline for candidate entries is in about 9 hours. — xaosflux 14:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Link to userpage, not homepage

When I click on my username at the top right, is there a way to link it to my user page and not my homepage? Thanks! Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 18:07, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Take a little look at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-homepage — is Default to newcomer homepage from username link in personal tools checked? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 18:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

YThat worked, thanks a lot. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 18:21, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

There's a homepage? Is it different from Main Page? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's in addition to your user page. It's located at the top menu when you are on your user page or talk page. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Homepage Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 20:02, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Redrose64: They are likely referring to a Growth Team feature that gives newcomers their own private homepage with info about their edits and with personalized suggestions about articles needing cleanup. It looks like this. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 20:02, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Never seen that before. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:57, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

UTM parameters in URL-s

Do we have any rule about using the UTM parameters in external links (e.g. to sources) in Misplaced Pages? Is there any consensus to consider them appropriate? ...useful? ...irrelevant? ...harmless? ...harmful?
Should they be stripped from links? Are there any bots periodically scanning Misplaced Pages and removing them?
Should such task be proposed at WP:BOTREQ? --CiaPan (talk) 06:51, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

It already has been: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/PrimeBOT 17. Nardog (talk) 07:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

...and? A search for insource:/utm_/ finds 500 main-space articles—or more (I did not click 'next 500'). One of them is Europe, which has a tracked URL in the very first words of the lede (footnote , ref. within it). The link was added in February (Special:Diff/1137319284), so it is there over half a year, and has not been noticed by a bot. --CiaPan (talk) 10:01, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

cc Primefac in case the bot needs adjusting. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Adjusting, no, just running; last time I ran that task was May 2022. Primefac (talk) 10:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I think there's a consensus that UTM and similar tracking parameters are mildly harmful and should be removed but not urgently. Certes (talk) 11:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I suspect most of them come from the automated citation formatter built into VisualEditor. Citoid, I think it's called? That should strip out the UTM crap when it creates the citation. RoySmith (talk) 15:00, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Any reason the wikitext editor wouldn't also have this problem? Not everyone knows enough about tracking links to strip out those parameters. –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:09, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

A topical article from The Register today: Certes (talk) 14:38, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Come help at wikifunctions!

Translation certainly could use more support. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:54, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Feel free to provide links. Here's one to the WikiFunctions main page. Here's another to TranslateWiki.net. Is this what you had in mind? –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:04, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Seeking tool to fill in citation parameters

Is there a tool (bot, gadget, script, whatever) that will go through an article and fill in citation parameters such as date, title, website, author? Or one which will change the square-bracket format of a citation to a cite web style? I've spent an hour getting lost in the catacombs of Misplaced Pages and can't find one. I frequently come across articles with sad collections of sources (e.g. Horse markings), and it is tedious to click on everything and hand-code citations. If I could automate some of the citation cleanup, I could spend more time on fixing content. I know these must exist; please list your favorites. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:31, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:reFill.-gadfium 22:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

@Gadfium: Well, I gave reFill/reFill2 a hard workout—I had it check every article I'd edited in my last 200 edits. It is squirrely as f**k, offers some pretty poor results (that have to be fixed by hand and sometimes undone), and completely misses a lot of citations that do need help. I suppose it is "a" tool, but it's a pretty poor one. Also tried Zotero, which will be useful for constructing new citations for journal articles (which are pretty cumbersome). ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 03:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

It is squirrely as f**k heh. Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_187#RfC:_Block_reFill_tool_until_fixed (1 year 1 months ago). What progress has been made since then, I wonder? -- GreenC 04:14, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

@GreenC: Apparently none. 1.7 years ago, BTW. Does WP:REFLINKS work to do a similar job, and does it work any better? (I saw it mentioned in the RfC.) ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:07, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

I use the visual editor, and sometimes if I find a badly formatted citation I'll extract the key bit of information (e.g. the URL for a web citation) and reinsert it using VE's automatic citation formatting tool. It always still needs tweaking after that but if the original citation is a mess it can give a better starting point. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

All the automated citation creation tools will sometimes mess things up, the only solution is to make sure to check the output. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 18:51, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Exactly this. The Zotero translators for any tool scripted to work with Misplaced Pages have to go through the API, which is not as fully functional as the Zotero browser extension, and so many domains only work partially. (See the comment by MVolz (WMF), Citoid's maintainer, at mw:Talk:Citoid#Improving citation quality). What this means in practice is that fully automating citations to the point where they don't need to be double checked and repaired is still quite a long ways off. Sometimes they're all ready to go, sometimes they leave a huge cleanup project in their wake. Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Citation cleanup/Repairing algorithmically generated citations has more info.With that caveat of always double checking your script's output, there was a nice Signpost article about this a little while ago at Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2023-08-01/Tips and tricks, if you're interested, User:Grorp. Folly Mox (talk) 07:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

• Yup… Sometimes trying to automate with bots takes longer than doing things by hand. Blueboar (talk) 13:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Big tables on small monitors

What should be done for large tables with more than 5 columns that have a problem of displaying on mobile phones if we don't want to reduce the number of columns? For example, how do you make this table? {{Hapoel Be'er Sheva matches in European football}}? Masoud.h1368 (talk) 15:26, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

As a person who reads and edits solely on mobile, I understand that sometimes I'll have to do a sidey-scroll to see all the bits of a table. It's nowhere near as much of an accessibility problem as a thread gone too far indented, or a noticeboard archive box taking up too much screen width, either of which leave a column of completely illegible single characters running vertically down the edge of the screen. In the linked template, you could try relabelling the rightmost column to "Overall", which is narrower than "Aggregate". Folly Mox (talk) 09:05, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Stub improvement drive

Starting this week, WikiProject Stub improvement is holding week-long drives to expand stubs in different topics. This week's topic is women's history, and all are invited to join! The drive can be found here. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

2023 Arbitration Committee Elections - Electoral Commission feedback requested

The community evaluation period for the Electoral Commission is open until 23:59, 15 October 2022 (UTC); feedback on volunteers for this commission is appreciated. -- Asartea 08:53, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Opportunities open for the Affiliations Committee, Ombuds commission, and the Case Review Committee

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

Hi everyone! The Affiliations Committee (AffCom), Ombuds commission (OC), and the Case Review Committee (CRC) are looking for new members. These volunteer groups provide important structural and oversight support for the community and movement. People are encouraged to nominate themselves or encourage others they feel would contribute to these groups to apply. There is more information about the roles of the groups, the skills needed, and the opportunity to apply on the Meta-wiki page.

On behalf of the Committee Support team,

Obsolete policy proposals appearing in Google answers

If you do a Google search for "Do Misplaced Pages edits have to be approved?" the first search result is a link to Misplaced Pages:Edit Approval. Google displays a passage from it, highlighting "If an administrator or a person who is considered trustful by any two administrators believes the edit is a valuable contribution to Misplaced Pages, they will approve the edit." Does anyone know how to ask Google to stop coughing up historical policy proposals as answers to questions? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 21:32, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I see a "Feedback" link at the bottom right of the snippet, I was able to click that and select that it was "Inaccurate content" and then explain why. How Google actually take that feedback into account is another question, but maybe if enough VPM watchers do the same thing it could help. the wub "?!" 22:05, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I'd be very surprised if Google took the slightest interest in a few complaints about their search engine. They've been misrepresenting AI-generated nonsense of their own as Misplaced Pages content for years, and clearly don't care about inaccuracies as long as they can generate search results that look superficially convincing - what AI does best. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@Clayoquot, I wonder if we could WP:NOINDEX that page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages village pump