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Revision as of 12:01, 6 December 2023 editHob Gadling (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users18,476 edits →Close minded explanation ← Previous edit		Revision as of 16:01, 8 December 2023 edit undoAtavisticPillow (talk \| contribs)75 edits →Not sure about equating anti-vitalism and mechanical reduction: new sectionTag: New topic Next edit →
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	:Malpighi is described as a doctor with a link to ]. Nobody called "Bergoson" is mentioned in this article. ] (]) 09:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)		:Malpighi is described as a doctor with a link to ]. Nobody called "Bergoson" is mentioned in this article. ] (]) 09:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

			== Not sure about equating anti-vitalism and mechanical reduction ==

			After the first sentence the lede of this article equates vitalism with the view that life is irreducible to mechanism. But that's too general: many (I would venture most) philosophers of science and biology today think that biological explanations are not reducible to mechanical ones because function-concepts are categorically different than mechanism-concepts. But there are plenty of ways to be pro-science and a materialist without buying the most extreme reduction position (the literature here on reduction and emergence is obviously immense and very complicated).

			I would propose clarifying the lede by putting vitalism in terms of positing "non-natural" rather than "non-mechanistic" entities. The opening sentence differentiates claims about a "non-physical element" from claims that organisms "are governed by different principles than are inanimate things." But then the rest of the lede conflates these two different claims. The former is what is discredited, the latter is at the very least an active topic of scientific and philosophical debate. ] (]) 16:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

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Close minded explanation

Call me naive, but I felt the criticisms of the topic of vital energy far outweighed the subjective experiences of most people. Despite the fact that current science cannot experimentally prove what it is that gives life, every one of us experiences on an inherent level what most would call some type of energy flowing within us. I promote being critical, but the article felt more like it was proving a point vs giving an explanation on what we observe as what gives us life as conscious beings. 2601:204:C001:3750:4D16:90EE:876D:4E24 (talk) 07:42, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, science outweighs subjective experiences. That is how Misplaced Pages works. If you want to change something, you will need reliable sources. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:02, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Actaullay science outweight subjective experience if and only if it has a scintific image to offer. Since on what is life we don't have one, vitalism it's not entairly discredit. The problem of vitalism is that it's not even wrong, as it's a circlular explanation. Eugenio.orsi (talk) 09:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources? This is not a forum. --Hob Gadling (talk) 12:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Malpighi and Bergson are alternative medicines practicioners?

Imagine somebody who don't know Malpighi and Bergoson and learn about them for the first time on this page. I think that the problem is selfevident... no? Maybe the best label could be Superseded? Eugenio.orsi (talk) 09:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Malpighi is described as a doctor with a link to Marcello Malpighi. Nobody called "Bergoson" is mentioned in this article. Bon courage (talk) 09:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Not sure about equating anti-vitalism and mechanical reduction

After the first sentence the lede of this article equates vitalism with the view that life is irreducible to mechanism. But that's too general: many (I would venture most) philosophers of science and biology today think that biological explanations are not reducible to mechanical ones because function-concepts are categorically different than mechanism-concepts. But there are plenty of ways to be pro-science and a materialist without buying the most extreme reduction position (the literature here on reduction and emergence is obviously immense and very complicated).

I would propose clarifying the lede by putting vitalism in terms of positing "non-natural" rather than "non-mechanistic" entities. The opening sentence differentiates claims about a "non-physical element" from claims that organisms "are governed by different principles than are inanimate things." But then the rest of the lede conflates these two different claims. The former is what is discredited, the latter is at the very least an active topic of scientific and philosophical debate. AtavisticPillow (talk) 16:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)