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<nowiki>https://www.ynet.co.il/yedioth/article/yokra13726511?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=yokra13726511&utm_content=Header</nowiki> ] (]) 08:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC) <nowiki>https://www.ynet.co.il/yedioth/article/yokra13726511?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=yokra13726511&utm_content=Header</nowiki> ] (]) 08:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

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Page moved

I'd initially misread reports and though the invasion had begun outright, so I initially titled this 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. I have no objection to moving it back to that title when the invasion begins; my bold move here to 2023 Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip is reflective of reporting that the raids today were local in-and-out operations rather than an invasion proper. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. When the invasion truly takes place, it will need to be removed back to 2023 Israeli invasion of Gaza, since most sources are referencing it at "Gaza" not "the Gaza Strip". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:35, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
I think "2023 Israeli incursions into Gaza" would be more accurate Personisinsterest (talk) 02:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
No way. Almost no sources use "incursion", while every source says "invasion". If you could find 10 WP:RS sources that do not use "invasion", but rather "incursion", then you would have a valid reason. Right now, I could provide dozens for "invasion". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 03:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
True Personisinsterest (talk) 10:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Reactions section

Most (if not all) of the info in the Reactions is about an invasion of Gaza, which is outside the scope of the article (IMO), as it's just a hypothetical (as well as violating WP:CRYSTAL). Should we just remove it for now? David O. Johnson (talk) 08:02, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

That would seem wise to me. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and removed it. We can add them once there's a proper Ground invasion of Gaza article (or whatever the title turns out to be). David O. Johnson (talk) 20:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Draft help needed: Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

I have created Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, which needs some help with the background section. Note, the Israeli invasion has not begun, but Israel announced they scheduled the date and there is countless RS to back that statement up. Per the first point in WP:FUTURE, this draft was made only so that the background section, which is comprised partially of this article as well as other background events, can be ironed out some, so when the scheduled invasion does take place, the article can be moved into mainspace, in better condition than a sloppy stub/start article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:38, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

What's the test for an "invasion"? I don't think the Israelis saying there will be one at some unspecified date is a good test. If they are km deep into Gaza, isn't that an invasion? Bibi says it's "the second stage of the war" and "The Israeli military has not publicly described the current operation as an invasion, and has released only brief footage of its advance. The ground assault in the northern part of the Gaza Strip was shrouded in secrecy and ambiguity"· Selfstudier (talk) 12:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
We are breaking the "war" (Israel Hamas) into pieces, Hamas attack, now ground operations (which are still accompanied by airstrikes), then "invasion", shouldn't we just be saying that Israel is attacking the Gaza Strip (ground/air/sea doesn't matter, it's an attack on Gaza). Selfstudier (talk) 12:16, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
The third stage is not "invasion" but rather seperating Gaza's reliance on Israel. The second stage is invasion. If they are saying they have entered the second stage, they are saying that invasion has begun. маsтегрнатаLк 13:49, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

"Israeli remains"

The text cited for the note says: "The IDF confirmed the same day that Israeli remains were located and retrieved in the Gaza Strip." I find it a bit weird. Israeli remains? What are "Israeli remains"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.221.250.8 (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

It's referring to a body. David O. Johnson (talk) 02:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Sea-based incursions

Shayetet 13 conducted a sea-based operation recently:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-770471

That would be outside the current scope of the article, right? David O. Johnson (talk) 06:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Add brigades on Gazan side.

There are multiple brigades fighting in Gaza and during the Nova festival massacre. The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Nukhba, Al-Quds Brigades, Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades and National Resistance Brigades. They should be added, instead of a basic "Hamas" being the only ones on the opposite side of the IDF. PaddyMacConghaile (talk) 16:05, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

As long as it's sourced, I see no issue with adding them. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:50, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Merge

Suggest merging this page to Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip which seems to be the current situation, see https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/podcasts/the-daily/israel-invasion-gaza.html Selfstudier (talk) 16:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Or the other way around and change the title of this one. Selfstudier (talk) 16:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
I went ahead and undid the most recent move; I feel it merits more discussion. For one, do we have agreement on what the sources call it? For instance, The Times of Israel calls it a "limited but protracted incursion." . David O. Johnson (talk) 17:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
As I asked elsewhere, what is the test for an invasion? "Limited but protracted", haha, who dreamed that up? Anyway, NYT is more independent than ToI who might well be just parroting the IsGov view. Selfstudier (talk) 17:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved per WP:SNOW ─ The Aafī (talk) 10:10, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


The Arab–Israeli conflict is designated as a contentious topic with special editing restrictions. Editing and discussing this topic is restricted to extended confirmed users. You are not logged in, so you are not extended confirmed. Your account is extended confirmeddoes not have the extended confirmed flag, but you are an administrator, so your account is extended confirmed by default.

2023 Israeli ground offensive in the Gaza Strip → 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip – The long expected Israeli ground incursion inside Gaza Strip appears to have quietly started on 27 October. Israel moved troops in, and the presence has been expanding since. Now it's the time to decide what to call the article. I would suggest invasion as it's the most direct approach. Other suggestions are also welcome. Ecrusized (talk) 17:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)++

Survey

  • Support The NYT thinks so and so do I, if tanks are km deep into Gaza, what else is that except invasion. Whether it is done in bite sized pieces or all at once doesn't really matter.
Selfstudier (talk) 17:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Explaining changes I've made to the infobox

  • The total number of units of the IDF is irrelevant to the Gaza Strip since IDF troops are also stationed in the North and in the West Bank. This number also includes all non-combat Homefront units, it is just a combination of all active military personnel and reserves. Also, the number of the Hamas fighters may not be updated. In the first days of the war, over two thousand Gazans entered Israel, most of whom were killed. The number of Gazans killed according to Hamas is over 8,000, and it is quite likely many of these are active members of Hamas. I removed the number of troops involved, since we simply don't know. This is misinformation. This information is definitely relevant to the background sections in this or other articles.
  • I removed Yoel Strick from the list of commanders. He is not an active IDF general, just an advisor to Gallant. Also, I removed Kobi Shabtai. He is the chief of police, and therefore isn't really involved in the ground offensive. Removed Abu Obaida and Abu Hamza, as they are just a spokespersons.
  • I have removed Givati, as Givat are part of the 162nd division already. Added the IAF.

Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:40, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Bolter21, Abu Jamal and Abu Khaled would also appear to be spokesmen rather than heads of military. Perhaps you might also consider removing them from the infobox. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
listing the brigades reported as fighting in Gaza would help readers understand what is going on and the Israeli level of effort - which now four divisions.
Of course, we do not want to keep in details that provide such knowledge. Bluenose Gunner (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

"Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 31 § Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip until a consensus is reached. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Al Mayadeen unreliable

@Whatever748: With respect to this edit, Al Mayadeen is decidedly unreliable (see here). I think no source is better than citing Al Mayadeen. If we are compelled to cite Al Mayadeen, I think we should be explicit about saying "Al Mayadeen reported that," as opposed to echoing the assertion in WikiVoice. Can we find a better source for this information? We might as well cite directly to Al Qassam's Telegram for the assertion that "Al Qassam reported that on 30 October 2023 they engaged the IDF northwest of Gaza." Or the BBC's live blog, which says basically that, properly attributing the assertions to Qassam brigades and Al Quds brigades' Telegram channels and disclosing the inability to verify these reports. | Orgullomoore (talk) 14:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Al-Mayadeen is not the only source on the battle, although as it's hard to find info on the events, it was the most easily accessible one. Other sources includes a few already cited in the article. I can replace the Al-Mayadeen one with a more reliable source. Thanks for the heads up.
Whatever748 (talk) 15:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

The Salah al-Din: Improper English?

It says "IDF cuts off the the Salah al-Din and briefly withdraws".

I assume this was meant to be "Salah al-Din Road"? I'm guessing the person that wrote this isn't a native English speaker, but maybe that's because it's the correct way to name a road in some Arabic dialects? So Portobello Rd would become "The Portobello"? I've seen "The" prefix "Salah Al-Din Road" before. Checkitrealgood (talk) 10:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I fixed it in the infobox but not in the direct quote sourced to Al Jazeera. Arabic would be شارع صلاح الدين, so no definite article - it's formed by iḍāfah. | Orgullomoore (talk) 17:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Israeli and Palestinian Casualties

the 13 dead figure was just from yesterday, and now that's inaccurate because Hamas just now launched a stealth operation which killed 3 near Erez, bringing today's total to at least 9 IDF killed. that and the fact the death toll stated from the Israeli Public Broadcasting Channel shot from 1418 in October 27th to 1538 on October 30th implies that much more damage was inflicted, Gallant himself said the IDF sustained "heavy losses".

As for vehicles Al-Qassam have stated they have destroyed at least 30 armoured vehicles including 12 Merkava tanks and a Panther armoured personnel carrier as well as providing video evidence.

For Hamas, the IDF claim they've killed 300 Hamas militants however Hebrew news channels puts that number closer to 40, The Jabalia Massacre killed 2 Hamas operatives there so 40-50 would be an accurate number for the info box.

Preliminary Sources: https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/1-november-alqassam-brigades-we-surprised-an-israeli-infantry https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/1-november-published-9-israeli-army-soldiers-were-killed

I will provide more sources once I get the time in about 6-7 hours. A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 13:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that Liveuamap is a reliable source, let's wait for the more established media to publish the figures. Alaexis¿question? 08:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
It's basically a Tweet aggregator and geolocator. It can provide useful hints, but not a reliable source in itself. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:28, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
A better approach would be that when Hamas release their figures we also add a “Per Hamas” category in both death tolls so no bias can be apparent A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 14:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Current lede revision

The lede currently reads:

"On the evening of 27 October 2023, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) launched a large scale ground incursion inside the Gaza Strip with the stated intent to attack Hamas militants and locate and rescue Israeli hostages."

Now that the article is named "2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip", I think it would make sense to reword the lede to match.

Any suggestions? David O. Johnson (talk) 01:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

As-Siafa? Failed verification?

Upon reading this page I was encouraged to see a citation appearing at the end of a sentence mentioning the capture of the town of As-Siafa by Israeli soldiers and a subsequent flag-raising therein. But after inspecting the Jerusalem Post article I was overcome with great disappointment not having encountered a mention of that town in the text of the article.

Hopeful that a Hebrew-language caption superimposed over an image in the article must be the source of the information regarding the name of the town, I used machine translation, but unless I've made a mistake, the name of the town where the flag is raised doesn't appear to have been named here either.

I will not rule out the possibility that the Hebrew dialogue of a video in a tweet embedded in the article confirms the claim we're making here on Misplaced Pages regarding As-Siafa, but curiously that placename was nowhere to be found in a translation provided by the Jerusalem Post. I'm still holding out hope that perhaps it was just a partial transcription.

@WeatherWriter, since you appear to be responsible for this edit, I'm calling on you to justify why "As-Siafa" appears in this sentence. Did the soldiers in the video utter this name? Have I typed the wrong Hebrew letters into the translators? Has the page been altered since it was first published, and if so, does an archive exist? If not, is the appearance of "As-Siafa" here some sort of mistake?

My very best wishes

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

As-Siafa is a small agricultural area with about 250 farmers and Bedouins, from what little snippets of information I was able to find on the web when looking for info to turn the red link As-Siafa blue. I did not find anything worth citing, really. There were some UN maps talking about water quality, a no-go zone at some point that displaced some residents, some prized strawberries, a mention of visiting Bedouins in an NGO volunteer's memoire, and so on. There was video of a flag being raised at the Tanani Chalet, which is past As-Siafa; see here, here, and here. I suspect that's where this info comes from. But in any case, my recent edit avoids the necessity of sourcing the statement that As-Siafa was "captured," when it is more accurate to say that a few strawberry fields were marched over to get to some beachside resorts to raise a flag at a lodge past As-Siafa (I hope).--| Orgullomoore (talk) 04:38, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2023

This edit request to 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Remove the 260 wounded soldiers from the count, the source clearly states this count started since October 7th and does not actually relate to the individual invasion of Gaza. Only the deaths are accurate. Cr33d1242 (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Inaccurate number of wounded

Please change the wounded count to unknown as the source used to cite this was simply the number of operations unit 669 has performed since October 7th and not the actual number of wounded in the invasion of Gaza. It does not make sense to put this count here. Cr33d1242 (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Innacurate casualties

Can someone change the number of military vehicles that got destroyed cause hamas just announced that they destroyed 136 military vehicles (and there’s vids of them so I don’t see it as a misinformation) Sajjjjr (talk) 17:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

There are videos of 136 destroyed military vehicles? Hamas is, for obvious reasons, not considered a reliable source. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Yes there are many videos and also u can mention that its hamas claim since Israel still didn’t reply or falsify that claim Sajjjjr (talk) 20:08, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
And the IDF is reliable? the IDF is also notoriously deceptive and prone to lying, so might as well put both claims, with a note of which side is claiming which numbers. readers can figure out for themselves which numbers they believe. 100.15.197.231 (talk) 02:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I think the Israeli news outlets reporting on IDF casualties after the families have been notified and specifically naming the soldiers are reliable. As far as I know, Hamas does not give counts of their killed mujahideen. The 136 number is directly out of Abu Obaida's mouth. I am against amplifying Abu Obaida's voice on Misplaced Pages. | Orgullomoore (talk) 03:47, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Why against I don’t think i can remember that it was proves that he lied u like idf that lied many times and telling families or not isnt a proof Sajjjjr (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Call me crazy, but to me, to state the suggestion that we should consider Hamas's Telegram a reliable source is to refute it. You are of course free to argue for its reliability here. | Orgullomoore (talk) 20:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Hamas being reliable or not doesn't matter IF we point out that it is Hamas' claim. Genabab (talk) 19:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
The IDF has to get permission from the family of they want to publish the death of a soldier publicly, there Is something called privacy, moreover every time they announce the death of a soldier they say, "the publication of the death of...has been permitted" Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
136 vehicles is the estimate since October 7, not since the invasion of Gaza The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 02:26, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Alr then put it in 2023 Israel–Hamas war Sajjjjr (talk) 16:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

IDF accounced the death of 2 more soldiers killed in gaza

update the casualties?


source:

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2237865/death-doll-rises-idf-announces-death-of-soldier-yaacov-ozeri-hyd-killed-in-gaza.html Durranistan (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-soldier-died-in-gaza-today-confirms-death-of-roni-eshel-missing-since-oct-7/
two more IDF soldiers kia Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1699509328-eliahou-benjamin-elmakayes-29-is-the-34rd-idf-soldier-killed-since-start-of-ground-operation
There is also this soldier marked among today's fallen Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.inn.co.il/flashes/959832
A sergeant died as a result of his wounds, the site says he is the 38th KIA in Gaza. Elia Tamburin (talk) 14:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Fatalities to update

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/11/hamas-antitank-weapons-gaza-israel/ -The Washington Post: "Since the start of the ground invasion, 41 IDF soldiers have bene killed in Gaza, the Israeli military said. Elia Tamburin (talk) 17:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Diff. Thank you for pointing this out. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-11-2023-d4d272416107c02e63dabd9548395026
The number of IDF casualties increased again.
-AP News: "46 Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza since the ground offensive began." Btw the map needs to be update Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 Done. Diff. | Orgullomoore (talk) 22:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
https://bnn.network/world/israel/psychological-warfare-intensifies-in-gaza-hamas-releases-video-of-abducted-soldier/
2 more IDF soldiers have been killed yesterday during the battle of Gaza. Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Inclusion of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades as a belligerent

Greetings all, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades are a significant belligerent in the 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, which would warrant their inclusion in the infobox.

Please see the below quotes from the Institute for the Study of War's Iran Updates, indicating that this group has engaged Israeli forces on multiple fronts inside the Gaza Strip since the invasion:

October 31st
The al Qassem Brigades, Saraya al Quds Brigades, and al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade attacked IDF forces in the central Gaza Strip.

November 5th
Both the al Quds Brigades—the militant wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)—and the Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade said they targeted Israeli vehicles in northwestern Gaza on November 5.
The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades also mortared Israeli vehicles entering the al Samouni area near Zaytoun.
Al Qassem Brigades and the al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades mortared advancing Israeli forces east of Juhor ad Dik, which is close to where Israeli forces entered the central Gaza Strip at the beginning of the ground operation.

November 9th
The al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades—the self-declared militant wing of Fatah—similarly claimed to fire mortars at Israeli forces in the northwestern Gaza Strip.

November 11th
The al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades—the self-claimed militant wing of Fatah—mortared IDF soldiers in al Nasr neighborhood on November 11.
SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 04:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2023

This edit request to 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Correction of Inaccurate Translation

Change:

On 11 November four IDF officers including a Major General were killed and other four were wounded after a explosion inside a tunnel near Beit Hanoun. All casualties were from the 697th battalion of the 551st Reserve Brigade Arrows of Fire.

to

On 11 November four IDF officers, including a Major, were killed and other four were wounded after a explosion inside a tunnel near Beit Hanoun. All casualties were from the 697th battalion of the 551st Reserve Brigade Arrows of Fire.

Reason for change:

The text indicating a "major general" is a mistranslation created by auto-translate. The rank listed in the source that's being mistranslated is רָסָ"ם. the shortening for רַב־סַמָּל מתקדם, which is the equivalent of Master Sgt. The rank for Major General is "תַּת־אַלּוּף", or "תָאָ"ל", which aren't found in the source article.

Source: You can compare the article text under Israel Defense Forces ranks in EN or with shortenings in Hebrew, IDF Ranks (Hebrew) OJDrucker (talk) 07:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Follow up edit: Found the article in English here: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rkfkwbaq6, which does not mention a major general. We should also switch from the HE article to the EN article for citing. OJDrucker (talk) 07:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 Already done The section has been fixed and we no longer say "major general". Elli (talk | contribs) 22:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

More inaccuracies

The article describes a major general dying on November 11th. This is a lie, the casualty was a Major

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-insists-no-siege-on-gazas-shifa-hospital-as-troops-advance-5-soldiers-killed/amp/ Wordbearer88 (talk) 10:16, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Map

Word current should be replaced with a date, map is always updated a day behind. Wikimedia description shows. 93.143.94.171 (talk) 20:58, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Need to organize units better.

Infobox is a bit misleading. It show units like so:

  • 162nd Armored Division
  • 252nd Division
  • 401st Brigade
  • Golani Brigade
  • Nahal Brigade
  • Paratroopers Brigade
  • Israel 7th Armored Brigade
  • 551st (Res) Paratroopers Brigade
  • Israeli Air Force
  • Shayetet 13

Giving the impression that there are more IDF soldiers in the ground than actually are. It should look more like this

  • 36th Division
    • 1st "Golani" Brigade
    • 7th Armored Brigade
  • 162nd Armored Division
    • 401st Brigade
    • 933rd "Naha" Brigade
  • 98th (Res) Division
    • 35th Paratroopers Brigade
    • 551st (Res) Paratroopers Brigade
  • 252nd (Res) Division
  • Israeli Air Force
    • Shaldag Unit
  • Israel Navy
    • Shayetet 13

Etaketake (talk) 12:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree entirely. It is a shame that someone removed all of the listed brigades - except for the Paratroopers - and left a bland statement of Southern Command which tells us nothing. Times of Israel is now reporting that four Israeli divisions are fighting in Gaza.
Of course, it would be wrong to have the article actually help the readers understand what is going on Bluenose Gunner (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Israel took control of Northern Gaza/Hamas lost control

AstroSaturn (talk) 22:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The operative detail in this story is "says Israeli defense minister". Iskandar323 (talk) 06:02, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
It wasn't debunked by any other sources AstroSaturn (talk) 14:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Hamas casualties according to the IDF update - edit request

Israel has now made a new claim about enemy casualties in Gaza. The IDF claims that at least 1000 militants were killed since the beginning of the ground invasion according to the Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-division-has-completed-capture-of-al-shati-camp-in-gaza/

The casualties info card need to be updated. Roniiixxx (talk) 16:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

I believe it is talking more specifically about the clashes in al-shati camp meaning the total number of militants killed would be higher. It's also worth noting that its unusual how the map for this wikipedia page doesn't show al-shati camp under israeli control Redsky1200 (talk) 01:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
"“The forces of the division killed over 1,000 terrorists from the beginning of the ground maneuver and reduced by about 80 percent the amount of rocket fire towards Israel from the north of the Gaza Strip,” Cohen adds."
To me this sounds like he is talking about the ground invasion in general. But even if it’s true that he is only referring to the al-Shati camp it would still be safe to change the casualties figure to "1000+ killed". Roniiixxx (talk) 07:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
It doesn't seem like a very realistico figure to me. Considering the fact that Israel has never provider even video evidence or any names of terrorista killed in gaza. They only speculated about the death of some Hamas leaders but otherwise nothing. Plus so far the few things that have only filmed are civilians killed. If Hamas had not provided video evidence of the vehicles they destroyed or damaged no one would have believed thei claim of a hundred vehicles destroyed or damaged. Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
How realistic these figures are doesn’t matter; they are made by one of the main fighting forces who are involved in this war. Aside from that there is plenty of footage of IDF air strikes targeting militants. As long as it states "per Israel" I think there is nothing wrong with adding that claimed figure. Roniiixxx (talk) 12:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
however, the figure remains exaggerated. The Israeli sources don't have much trouble lying: they published photos of a calendar claiming that they were the names of the terrorists who signed their presence in the building, but instead they were just days of the week; they also showed what appeared to be a tunnel when in fact it was just an elevator. Their videos (few) are not clear, they come from thermal cameras and they bomb everything that moves, 95% of the videos they publish are of civilians being massacred. In support of this thesis, an Israeli soldier Anshel Pfeffer told the Haaretz newspaper "we barely see the terrorists. They're underground". The number that your source claims is a totally unfounded figure and unfortunately in these cases it is better to wait for more evidence and leave the figure 460 which in my opinion is also exaggerated but more realistic. Elia Tamburin (talk) 15:14, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
And yet there can also be arguments made that the actual figure might be even higher. But again, this shouldn’t matter because the point is to provide a figure that is claimed by one of the sides participating in this war. By specifying the source of this claim ("per Israel") I don’t think it is controversial to add this number. Roniiixxx (talk) 07:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Hamas uses hospitals

https://13tv.co.il/item/news/politics/security/day-39-903802755/?pid=62&cid=902992371 2.55.162.244 (talk) 19:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Please file an WP:EDITREQUEST (see WP:ARBECR) (include independent reliable source(s)). Thank you. Selfstudier (talk) 19:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Here's an English version of that story from The Guardian. Published about 10 minutes ago. “We have information that confirms that Hamas is using that particular hospital for a command and control node”, the White House’s national security spokesperson, John Kirby, told reporters aboard Air Force One: They have stored weapons there and they’re prepared to respond to an Israeli military operation against that facility. He added: That is a war crime. --Orgullomoore (talk) 20:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2023

This edit request to 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

On November 14th, 2023, Al Jazerra confirmed that Israeli forced had surrounded the Al-Shaifa Hospital. Vsquared2025 (talk) 00:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 01:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Fatalities to update

-The Times of Israel: "The Israel defense forces announce that 2 soldiers were killed fighting in Gaza Strip on Wednesday, bringing the death toll from the ground offensive against hamas to 50." Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

apparently it is a number that has already been exceeded Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-announces-death-of-officer-in-gaza-fighting-toll-of-ground-op-rises-to-51/ Roniiixxx (talk) 13:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1700390191-idf-announces-deaths-of-yakir-biton-rani-tahan-and-chen-yahalom
"IDF announces 3 more fallen soldiers: Their deaths bring the total number of fallen Israeli soldiers since the start of the ground operation to 68." (means those killed in the Gaza Strip) Elia Tamburin (talk) 12:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Also Al-Qassam's claims need to be updated. 335 Vehicles have been completely or partially destroyed since the beginning of the ground invasion, 405 to 425 since October 7th
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/208738/335-Israeli-military-vehicles-destroyed-in-48-days-Qassam A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 16:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Source on Palestinian civilian casualties?

There is no source currently listed. 2A02:8086:D03:F880:8107:CEE5:60B8:8BA4 (talk) 19:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)


Juhor Ad Dik ambush has no proof or reliable sources

The claim that Hamas killed 60 Israeli soldiers is completely fake. There is no record of this incident outside of what Hamas says. The only source given here is an Iranian government newspaper, that is not considered a reliable source. Also, not even Hamas claimed that they killed 60 soldiers, they actually only claimed they "Targeted a gathering of 60 soldiers"

The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 08:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

The claim that Israel killed "5,000 Hamas members" is a lie. Israel is simply slaughtering civilians indiscriminately and is claiming that all men they murder are "Hamas".
I don't see you complaining about that Israeli claim on this page, though. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:B157:A2A2:CE47:3D32 (talk) 01:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
That wasn't there when I wrote this update. You are using whataboutism. Claiming that Israel is indescriminately murdering civilians is both clearly biased and objectively untrue The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 05:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
It's not "whataboutism" when it's an accurate assessment, as we can clearly see from your response to me here.
Israel is clearly indiscriminately targeting civilians in Gaza, which has resulted in the murder and maiming of tens of thousands. Israel's claim that all the men that they've indiscriminately killed "are Hamas militants" is just one example of this, but why recognize the facts when you have to keep pretending that Israel isn't doing what they're clearly doing? 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 08:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
All I'm saying is that there is no good source for the 60 dead figure. If you want to add a better source be my guest, but it is very clear you are pursuing a certain agenda here. The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 08:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
It gets even better when we consider the fact that Israel is deliberately targeting the Gazan population in general, as they believe "everyone in Gaza is guilty". So "indiscriminate slaughter" is really painting Israel's conduct in a good light compared to what they're actually doing per their own admissions. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 08:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
This is not a forum to discuss the topic, it is for discussions regarding improvements to the article. If you have nothing to contribute to the other editor's topic then you don't need to contribute. XeCyranium (talk) 00:09, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


"5000 Hamas killed"

Someone should edit this to make it clear that this is based on what the IDF says and no one else, as well as the fact that the IDF is pretending that any men in Gaza they kill "are Hamas", regardless of what the reality is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:B157:A2A2:CE47:3D32 (talk) 01:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Among other things, it is a clearly exaggerated number, if 16,248 people were killed in Gaza, of which 7,112 children, 4,885 women, 678 elderly people, 286 health personnel and 102 members of the United Nations, adding them up makes 13,063, the remainder are young males that are 3185. So 5000 is an exaggerated number that doesn't even make sense. Elia Tamburin (talk) 10:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
That's a good point. Not even necessarily "young men" either, as opposed to men ages 18-60.
Either way, what the IDF claims comes across as a particularly obtuse distortion if not a shameless lie. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 11:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
What is your NPOV source for the number - and the breakdown by age and gender - of people in Gaza who have been killed? Bluenose Gunner (talk) 14:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Again, what is the NPOV source for the Gazan casualties? Gaza health ministry, which is controlled by Hamas, is not NPOV. Bluenose Gunner (talk) 02:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Bluenose Gunner, Gaza MoH figures are generally considered reliable, also by Israel. See the lengthy discussion at Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war#Hamas exaggeration in the lead. — kashmīrī  12:47, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
It's already described as "Israeli claim" in the article. Please note that this is WP:NOTFORUM. Alaexis¿question? 20:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


Jaffa Great Mosque destroyed

Seems like this should be mentioned somewhere, couldn't find any article or mention of it (the mosque or it's destruction). Jaffa Great Mosque after an airstrike in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza, destroyed presumably 12/8... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna128682/rcrd27669?canonicalCard=true Fanccr (talk) 05:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

If mean Great Mosque of Gaza, it's in the main article. Jaffa mosque is in Tel Aviv? Selfstudier (talk) 15:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
No, it's a mosque in Deir al-Balah, not in Gaza city and surely not in Jaffa. Possibly could be mentioned in the article about the city. Alaexis¿question? 22:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2023

This edit request to 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

It is not only Israel only against Hamas and co. involved in this war, please consider putting the truth (France, America, U.K., Denmark, Norway, The Whole Arab Emirates Leagues. Evidence has shown FRENCH & AMERICAN troops inside Gaza. 2C0F:FC89:112:9247:F44A:57FF:FEAF:6F8D (talk) 05:44, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Why No pictures/clips of Palestinian factions?

Why there is no pictures/clips in this article from Al-Qassam brigade/Al-Quds brigades & other Palestinian military factions in the article??

There are picture/clips of combat operations from IDF forces but not from Palestinian factions. I suggest that we add them from both sides.--Sam6897 (talk) 11:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Haifa School airstrike into 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

Not sufficiently notable for a stand alone article. This is a fairly routine, albeit tragic event in a major war. Ad Orientem (talk) 18:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ad Orientem: At least in principle, surely School airstrikes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war might be a more or at least equally immediate target? Iskandar323 (talk) 20:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
That might work. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:51, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Oppose, an independently notable tragic event. Just as Kunduz hospital airstrike has a separate article from War in Afghanistan (2001–2021). — kashmīrī  01:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Add "Jaysh al-Ummah" in list of Palestinians factions

Al-Qaeda linked Jaysh al-Ummah (Gaza) has officially confirmed that it is fighting IDF in Gaza. Kindly add it in list of Palestinians factions in infobox. Reference is below:

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2023/12/al-qaeda-aligned-jaysh-al-ummah-says-it-is-fighting-israeli-troops-in-gaza.php--Sam6897 (talk) 15:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Gerilla

"Two photos from the Gaza Strip. The first: a group of Palestinian civilians are on the move in the area of ​​the Indonesian hospital, in the north of the Strip. They are trying to cross south. The IDF is monitoring the axis, to try and identify hostages or Hamas members among the escapees. There are white flags among the citizens. Suddenly, a terrorist with an RPG mount emerges from among them and launches at the tank that is providing cover. There are no casualties. He is eliminated. Second photo, in Rimal neighborhood in Gaza City. A raid of the 401st brigade. A man about 60 years old approaches the force. They fire a warning shot, he continues to advance - and explodes. There are no IDF casualties. The division's assessment is that this is a Hamas terrorist, and if all these details are accurate - I confirmed them with the IDF spokesman - then this is the first suicide attack in the Gaza war."

https://www.ynet.co.il/yedioth/article/yokra13726511?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=yokra13726511&utm_content=Header שמי (2023) (talk) 08:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

https://www.ynet.co.il/yedioth/article/yokra13726511?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=yokra13726511&utm_content=Header שמי (2023) (talk) 08:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
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