Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:58, 4 January 2024

Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements The December newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates GL Mk. I radar • Sieges of Berwick (1355 and 1356) • George Washington • CSS General Earl Van Dorn • McDonnell Douglas Phantom in UK service • Battle of Köse Dağ • Marching Through Georgia • Siege of Tunis (Mercenary War) Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 • Pre-dreadnought battleship Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Project Pluto • SMS Berlin • AN/APS-20 • USS Varuna (1861) • Battle of Meligalas • Battle of Arkansas Post (1863) Peer reviews Sher Shah Suri • Urien • War of the Antiochene Succession • 4th Army (France) • List of foreign-born samurai in Japan • Hiroshima Maidens • German Jewish military personnel of World War II • Outline of George Washington • Central Powers • Ben Roberts-Smith • Bertrand Clauzel Good article nominees Crusading movement • Regency of Algiers • History of the Regency of Algiers • Perdiccas • Ziaur Rahman • Pierre François Bauduin • HMS Sheffield (C24) • Charles the Bold • Alt Llobregat insurrection • SMS Scorpion (1860) • 1991 Andover tornado • Henry O'Neill (soldier) • Statue of John Barry • Richard Haking • Battle of Chunj • USS Gyatt • Zhao Chongguo • Michael Mantenuto • SMS Bremse (1884) • Fritz Strassmann • Lord Clyde-class ironclad • Dédée Bazile • 26 December 2024 Israeli attack on Yemen • Middlesex Regiment alien labour units • AN/APQ-7 • Scaliger War • George Palaiologos Good article reassessments Mikhail Gorbachev • Henry VIII • Wings (1927 film) • Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (149,945) • only work on referencing and citation (43,206) • work on coverage and accuracy (125,287) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,938) • work on structure (32,192) • only work on structure (346) • work on grammar (8,206) • only work on grammar (47) • work on supporting materials (32,870) • only work on supporting materials (485) • assessment (5) • assessment as lists (0) • project tags fixed (10) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (2) • task forces added (9) • attention to task force coverage (651)

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Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2023 are open!

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• First place
• Runners up

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the Military history newcomer of the year award. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.

Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 9 December 2023 and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 20 December 2023. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 21 December 2023 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2023, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2023. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:33, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

• JumbledPasta - For work on various Finnish military articles. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 13:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• A.D.Hope - For high quality castle articles such as Dolwyddelan Castle. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 13:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• UndercoverClassicist - For knowledge of ancient warfare and logistics. Has four featured articles. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
• Teknologi Exprt - For timely updates to articles about modern AFVs and aircraft. Also earlier this year Teknologi Exprt caught an eight-year-old typo I made in titling M992 FAASV. Oops! Schierbecker (talk) 06:39, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Voting

Nominations for this year's "Military History Newcomer of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to the nominee's section below. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

All editors are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2023.

Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

A.D.Hope

1. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Harrias 18:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Hog Farm _Talk 18:24, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Boo Boo (talk) 02:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Ahendra (talk) 13:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. Zawed (talk) 09:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

JumbledPasta

1. V.B.Speranza (talk) 00:47, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Ed  02:47, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Their work on the Continuation War article is very impressive. Nick-D (talk) 00:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Teknologi Exprt

1. Schierbecker (talk) 11:38, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

UndercoverClassicist

1. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:28, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Catlemur (talk) 09:33, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Hog Farm _Talk 18:24, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
7. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:25, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Donner60 (talk) 06:33, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
9. SEKDIS (talk) 09:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
10. --Obenritter (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
11. Ian Rose (talk) 00:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
12. Kierzek (talk) 23:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
13. FlaLibrarian (talk) 22:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
14. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
15. Zawed (talk) 09:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

For next year's nominations—it would help to have more detailed nominating rationales. Ed  02:47, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Nominations for military historian of the year for 2023 are open!

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• First place
• Second place
• Third place

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.

The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UCT) on 9 December 2023 and last until 23:59 (UCT) on 20 December 2023. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 21 December 2023 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2023, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2023. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:35, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

• Gog the Mild – Without whom the world's knowledge of the Punic Wars would be that much less. I think *only* the eight FAs this year, but that's not mentioning the excellent reviewing work and gnomish administrative tasks they carry out for the project. Harrias 15:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• Hog Farm – Apparently "Semi-Retired", but still churning out high-quality American Civil War content: five A-class promotions, and four FAs so far this year! Harrias 15:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• Sturmvogel 66 – A content creator without compare. This year has taken them past 900 Good articles, and I'm somewhat amazed there are any remotely modern warships left to work on! Harrias 15:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• Donner60 - tireless work behind the scenes maintaining the monthly contest and other coordinator tasks. Hog Farm _Talk 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• Pickersgill-Cunliffe - excellent work on Royal Navy ships and historical figures and extensive work checking the MILHIST bot auto-assessment lists. Hog Farm _Talk 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
• Zawed - leading the monthly contest with 71 new and improved articles, including several GAs. Donner60 (talk) 00:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
• BilCat - This project would have long ago gone the way of Military Today without BilCat's diligent guardianship. Schierbecker (talk) 01:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Voting

Nominations for this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, the second and third placed editors and all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done below by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to nominee's sections. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

All project members are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2023.

Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

BilCat

1. Schierbecker (talk) 01:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Bill has made enormous contributions to Misplaced Pages over the years, including its coverage of military aviation topics. Nick-D (talk) 00:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
4. BusterD (talk) 15:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Donner60

1. Hog Farm _Talk 23:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:28, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
3. TwoScars (talk) 17:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. BusterD (talk) 15:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Gog the Mild

1. Hog Farm _Talk 23:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
2. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Lineagegeek (talk) 00:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Harrias 09:46, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Catlemur (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. Ian Rose (talk) 18:15, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
9. MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
10. Imperial 11:33, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
11. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
12. Zawed (talk) 09:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Hog Farm

1. Schierbecker (talk) 01:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Lineagegeek (talk) 00:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Boo Boo (talk) 02:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Donner60 (talk) 06:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. Harrias 09:46, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Catlemur (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
9. TwoScars (talk) 17:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
10. Ian Rose (talk) 18:16, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
11. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
12. BusterD (talk) 15:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
13. Imperial 11:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
14. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
15. Zawed (talk) 09:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
16. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 14:02, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Pickersgill-Cunliffe

1. Hog Farm _Talk 23:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
2. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:28, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Donner60 (talk) 06:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. SEKDIS (talk) 09:25, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Harrias 09:46, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
9. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
10. Zawed (talk) 09:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
11. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 14:02, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Sturmvogel 66

1. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Schierbecker (talk) 01:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Lineagegeek (talk) 00:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. SEKDIS (talk) 09:26, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Zawed

1. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
3. V.B.Speranza (talk) 00:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Donner60 (talk) 06:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:30, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Catlemur (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
7. --Obenritter (talk) 18:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Ian Rose (talk) 18:17, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
9. Ed  20:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
10. MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:04, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
11. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

2023 Israel–Hamas war

This article has virtually nothing on the military aspects of the conflict. Experienced editors, especially those acquainted with counterinsurgency warfare, would be welcome to lend their expertise. Coretheapple (talk) 14:10, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I urge editors not to weigh in until the dust has settled. Also, I would not have considered the war to be an insurgency but a conventional conflict like the war between Russia and Ukraine. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

It may take quite a while for the dust to settle, or if it ever settles, and meanwhile the article can use outside editors, especially those with military knowledge. Yes it can be a difficult talk page environment, but if necessary one can just WP:WALKAWAY. Coretheapple (talk) 00:28, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Really, Hawkeye? Keith-264 (talk) 01:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Question about minor naval battle

Any ideas if these two sources (1, 2) are referring to the same event? I think this has sometimes been confused with a later action involving a different ship, HMS Kingfisher (1675). See also (3, 4). Any input appreciated, 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 13:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, both sources are referring to the same event. The key elements that confirm this are:

1. The ship "Mary Rose" is central to both accounts.
2. In both descriptions, the Mary Rose is involved in an encounter with seven Barbary pirates.
3. The time frame and context (the Royal Navy's actions against Barbary Corsairs under Charles II) align in both descriptions.
4. The involvement of the artists Van de Velde (father and son) in documenting these events is mentioned in both passages.
5. Specific details such as the convoy duty, the Mediterranean setting, and the successful repulsion of the Algerine corsairs are consistent across both accounts.

The first source focuses more on the historical context and the commissioning of artworks by James II, while the second source provides a more detailed analysis of the artistic depiction of the event. Despite their different emphases, both sources clearly describe the same historical incident involving the Mary Rose and the Barbary pirates.

skarz (talk) 16:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I wonder where the confusion over the date came from. "8-18 December" is a pretty broad range, whereas the two print sources each say this happened on the night of 28 and continued into the next day. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 04:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Submission for contest

Hello, new to this project but not Misplaced Pages. I have made significant contributions to RIM-24 Tartar as it was lacking citations and am wondering if this is eligible for the contest? skarz (talk) 16:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Its not a contest, but read wp:rs, sources have to be reputable, have a reputation for fact-checking and be wp:verifiable. Slatersteven (talk) 16:26, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I was referring to WP:MHCON - I meant are my entries eligible for that? skarz (talk) 17:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

The article was still rated start class. It needed to be reassessed at a higher class to be eligible for the contest. The MilHistBot does periodic sweeps for B class articles automatically but would not have found this article eligible for B class. So a self-assessment at C or a reviewer reassessment for C or higher class would be needed. For the contest, the reviewer will check the assessment before confirming an entry on the contest entry page. (Occasionally coordinators will downgrade a bot B class assessment when the bot finds all criteria met and the coordinator finds that one of them has not been met.)

In this case, I have reassessed the article as C class. It would be worth two points in the contest. To get it to B class, many additional citations are needed. See Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/B-Class FAQ: "Policy is to cite anything that is likely to be challenged but, again, this is B-Class not a FAC so some latitude is permitted. As a rule of thumb, the absolute minimum is that all paragraphs should at least end with a citation and all direct quotes should be attributed to a source." Reassessments can be requested at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Requests. The requests on this page are for B class review. If not assessed B, reasons are given and an intermediate class (start or C) may be given to the article. When all the B class criteria are satisfied, a further assessment can be requested (or the bot may see it but you would need to keep an eye on it to be sure.). See Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/B-Class and the linked B class FAQ page.

You can enter this article in the contest at C class if you wish. Please be sure to read all the contest rules. If you do not enter the article this month, but raise it to B later, it will be considered an increase from C to B, not from start to B due to the current reassessment making it eligible for a C class entry this month. See Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Contest and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Contest/Entries. If you have further questions, please ask. Donner60 (talk) 04:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

RfC on inclusion of Hamas denial in lead of article

See https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#RfC_on_Hamas_denial_in_lead_section. This presents a possible NPOV issue, one way or the other. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 00:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

AFD Alexander Zeitlin

AFD Alexander Zeitlin - alleged Russian-American military leader - does not have a project banner for Project Military history. It has been suggested that this article is a hoax. It might be of interest of this project. — Maile (talk) 23:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Formal name of armed forces of the United States

At Template talk:United States Armed Forces informal discussions are taking place about whether the main article title, United States Armed Forces, is the best place to have the article. I initially raised these concerns when I noticed that the style "United States Armed Forces" is not referred to in United States Code, Annotated. The nearest thing in U.S. Code is "the armed forces."

All are encouraged and welcome to put their views at the bottom of that talkpage Template talk:United States Armed Forces#In Code / Article Rename?; these discussions may be formalized into a WP:RfC at some point. Kind regards to all, Happy New Year. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:42, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Featured Article status of Military History articles

At Template talk:WikiProject banner shell#Featured Article status of Military History articles there is a discussion on whether WikiProject Military history articles are eligible for Featured Article status. All are encouraged and welcome to put their views. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks like this was an unintentional change that is going to be corrected. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

MILHIST reliable source database

Hey, on a quick skim of the project I didn't see if MILHIST has any list of discussed sources in regards to meeting WP:RS, akin to the Video Games Wikiproject's WP:VG/S. I've seen some discussion on WP:RSN but the search feature on wiki isn't great and if there was a centralized discussion place that would be a good place to start. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 13:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Given the tens or hundreds of thousands of potential RS in a project this wide, this seems a bit of a non-starter. Defining specific non-RS sources might be more do-able. Or perhaps within more limited parameters, like RS websites? Monstrelet (talk) 19:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Indeed; a Civil War historian I knew years ago told me there were something like 4-5,000 books on the Battle of Gettysburg alone (if I'm correctly remembering the absolutely absurd number he told me!) Agree that it may be feasible to put together a very high level list of reliable websites, but even that would be a tall order if you want to attempt to cover the last 6,000 or so years of recorded history. Parsecboy (talk) 19:44, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

While I agree that a broad database might not be possible, putting together a resource like WP:RSP for Milhist-specific sources could be useful. Ed  19:51, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Despite being in an argument with Ed on another page I heartily Agee with them here, Milhist is such a prolific and controversial topic that a specific respire list would be extremely helpful (if only to weed out the various hobbyist websites and direct people towards higher tier sources). As for Parsecboy concerns they are totally valid, but I think they're universal... They apply to every attempt at creating a whitelist or a blacklist, this topic area is not particularly difficult. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Deletion discussion of Battle of Thane

There is a deletion discussion going on here. Please vote. Imperial 18:47, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Operation Pike

Tidied up some banners here. No idea what was happening with the task forces, so someone might want to review it — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorted it, was all in the page history. Harrias 15:15, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

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