Misplaced Pages

Talk:Joe Biden: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 14:33, 29 January 2024 view sourceSlatersteven (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers73,208 edits →Conservation and old growth forests← Previous edit Revision as of 14:43, 29 January 2024 view source Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,704 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 17) (botNext edit →
Line 112: Line 112:


{{/Current consensus}} {{/Current consensus}}

== Requesting the “moderate” label be removed from lede, but for different reasons ==

While I agree that Joe Biden is in fact a moderate within the Democratic Party, I haven’t yet found another Misplaced Pages page for another politician with enough prominence whose ideological position is mentioned in the lede. It’s really odd to me, especially as this is a relatively new addition to the lede. I haven’t found any former President’s to have a label either in the lede. ] (]) 20:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

For example, most other politicians pages say “A member of the ______ party,” rather than, “An ideologically ______ member of the _____ party.” Ultimately, I feel there is an ulterior motive behind the decision to add this label. I agree with it, but it’s been put in the lede for a reason. ] (]) 20:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
:Biden isn't a progressive. ] (]) 20:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
:Please do not accuse other editors of editing an article with "ulterior motives" unless you have some evidence to support such an accusation. See ]. ] (]) 00:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:{{tq|I haven’t yet found another Misplaced Pages page for another politician with enough prominence whose ideological position is mentioned in the lede.}} ]. But this is irrelevant per ]. ] ] ] (she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 00:18, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


== Israel section == == Israel section ==
Line 160: Line 151:
:This has become a significant issue for Biden and is the main cause for his decline in support among Muslim voters and possibly also why younger voters now favor Trump. Past presidents did not by the way routinely agree with everything Likud did, as Lawrence J. Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, points out.https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/05/24/ronald-reagan-wasnt-afraid-to-use-leverage-to-hold-israel-to-task/] I certainly agree that not everything that comes up belongs in the article, but this has now achieved due weight for inclusion. ] (]) 21:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC): :This has become a significant issue for Biden and is the main cause for his decline in support among Muslim voters and possibly also why younger voters now favor Trump. Past presidents did not by the way routinely agree with everything Likud did, as Lawrence J. Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, points out.https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/05/24/ronald-reagan-wasnt-afraid-to-use-leverage-to-hold-israel-to-task/] I certainly agree that not everything that comes up belongs in the article, but this has now achieved due weight for inclusion. ] (]) 21:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC):
::Agree - ] (]) 02:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC) ::Agree - ] (]) 02:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== JRB & LBJ ==

Perhaps {{ping|Bill Williams}} & {{ping|SPECIFICO}} you may both want to work things out 'here', about President Biden's negotiation skills with the US Congress, concerning whether they need to be included or excluded, in his BLP. ] (]) 19:01, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
:His negotiating skills are irrelevant, the debt ceiling has been raised under every president for decades, with negotiations occurring every single time. Obama and House Republicans "almost" came to a default twice, yet that has no mention in his lead because it is not notable. My edit also removed any mention of Build Back Better, because you aren't going to find failed ideas that never came to fruition in the lead of any other president's article. It isn't notable for the lead and went absolutely nowhere, with barely anything in the IRA being related. ] 19:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
::You're stating an incomplete and misleading personal narrative. That has nothing to do with the content, which is significant and widely noted in RS. Failed ideas in a BLP? Mexico's goning to pay for it, Muslim Ban, Secret Plan to end the Vietnam War, "54°40' or fight!", Secession of the Confederacy, and other great ideas that succeeded?]] 19:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
:::What would actually be helpful here is to see some text and sources. – ] (]) 20:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
::::I thought the text that BW removed was good enough to stay in place.]] 20:11, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
::::: is what the disagreement is about? This is so minor that I don't know that I'll form an opinion either way. – ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::I agree it's minor, so I have given no thought to whether it can be improved. But I do feel that the version I restored is a better reflection of what RS consider significant. The LBJ thing is not on the table for article text, so I hope it is not raised as a reason to gut the existing brief mention of Biden's collaborations with Congress.]] 20:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::It's just pushing a narrative of how amazing Biden is because he saved the U.S. from a default. Meanwhile, every single President has negotiated raising the debt ceiling when that came up in Congress, so you could claim they stopped numerous defaults except for the fact that it isn't notable because these negotiations happen all of the time. The U.S. was "closer" to a default not once but ''twice'' under Obama, yet it doesn't belong in his lead hence it isn't there. Zero reason as to why that belongs in Biden's lead, especially in the POV nonsense way it currently is written. ] 22:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::::{{tq|every single President has negotiated raising the debt ceiling }}. This is simply false. "Negotiation" is a new thing. Previously, Congress just passed clean debt ceiling increases. One party in Congress now regularly threatens to destroy the world economy in order to get something they want that they otherwise cannot get Congress to pass. ] (]) 22:58, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Correct. ] shows that this gamesmanship around the debt ceiling began in 1995. – ] (]) 23:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::I'll go further. Even the Republicans in the current Congress cannot negotiate with each other. The fact that a Democratic president has managed to get major bills passed with this congress is ]. ] (]) 23:21, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::Which brings me back to the point I made on December 17 about wanting to see sources to that effect to get a sense of the WEIGHT RS give his negotiation abilities. – ] (]) 23:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::It's a hilarious joke, he negotiated nothing by himself, it was congressional Democrats more than him. Also, O3000 can make some partisan statements against Republicans if he wants (see his irrelevant ranting above), but that doesn't make this DUE for the lead. Obama had two separate "close calls" even worse than what Biden dealt with and Obama negotiated both increases just as much as Biden did. Yet, notice how it isn't in his lead, because a debt ceiling increase is not notable. ] 02:12, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::In your haste to attack another editor personally, complain about the topic rather than the article, and go on a "but other stuff" tangent, it seems that you forgot to make an actual point. ] (]) 02:16, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
{{od|:::::::::::::}}Include or exclude? Seems to me this content dispute has reached a stalemate. No doubt more editors will need to be invited to give their input. ] (]) 14:30, 31 December 2023 (UTC)


== why was his position on the New Castle County council removed?! == == why was his position on the New Castle County council removed?! ==

Revision as of 14:43, 29 January 2024

    This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Joe Biden article.
    This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
    Article policies
    Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
    Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19Auto-archiving period: 21 days 
    This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
    This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
    It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
    Template:WikiProject Joe Biden
    WikiProject iconBiography: Politics and Government
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Top-importance).
    WikiProject iconU.S. Congress High‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject U.S. Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United States Congress on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.U.S. CongressWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. CongressTemplate:WikiProject U.S. CongressU.S. Congress
    HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
    This article is about one (or many) Person(s).
    WikiProject iconUnited States: Delaware / Presidential elections / Presidents / Government Top‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
    TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by WikiProject Delaware (assessed as Mid-importance).
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. presidential elections (assessed as Mid-importance).
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by WikiProject United States Presidents (assessed as Top-importance).
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. Government (assessed as Top-importance).
    WikiProject iconPennsylvania Mid‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania
    MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
    WikiProject iconPolitics: American High‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
    HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
    Taskforce icon
    		This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Top-importance).
    WikiProject iconCollege football Bottom‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football
    BottomThis article has been rated as Bottom-importance on the project's importance scale.
    WikiProject iconScience Policy High‑importance
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Policy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Science policy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science PolicyWikipedia:WikiProject Science PolicyTemplate:WikiProject Science PolicyScience Policy
    HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
    WikiProject iconBarack Obama (inactive)
    WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Barack Obama, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Barack ObamaWikipedia:WikiProject Barack ObamaTemplate:WikiProject Barack ObamaBarack Obama
    Warning: active arbitration remedies

    The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

    • You must follow the bold-revert-discuss cycle if your change is reverted. You may not reinstate your edit until you post a talk page message discussing your edit and have waited 24 hours from the time of this talk page message

    Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

    Further information
    Enforcement procedures:
    • Violations of any of these restrictions should be reported immediately to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard.
    • Editors who are aware of this topic being designated a contentious topic and who violate these restrictions may be sanctioned by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.

    The contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topics sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.

    If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!
    This page is not a forum for general discussion about Joe Biden. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Joe Biden at the Reference desk.
    This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
    Former good articleJoe Biden was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
    Article milestones
    DateProcessResult
    September 18, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
    September 19, 2008Good article nomineeListed
    April 22, 2020Good article reassessmentDelisted
    June 28, 2020Good article reassessmentDelisted
    October 4, 2020Good article nomineeNot listed
    Current status: Delisted good article
              Other banners: Top 25 reports; media mentions; pageviews; section size
              Top 50 Report and Top 25 Report annual lists
    This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 82 million views since December 2007.
    This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2020 and 2021.
    This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 20 times. The weeks in which this happened:
    Media mentionThis article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
    Section sizes
    Section size for Joe Biden (63 sections)
    Section name Byte
    count    		 Section
    total
    (Top) 9,552 9,552
    Early life (1942–1965) 9,050 9,050
    Marriages, law school, and early career (1966–1973) 10,599 27,199
    1972 U.S. Senate campaign in Delaware 1,826 1,826
    Death of wife and daughter 3,828 3,828
    Second marriage 8,342 8,342
    Teaching 2,604 2,604
    U.S. Senate (1973–2009) 74 39,489
    Senate activities 19,310 19,310
    Brain surgeries 2,434 2,434
    Senate Judiciary Committee 6,590 6,590
    Senate Foreign Relations Committee 5,856 11,081
    Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq 5,225 5,225
    1988 and 2008 presidential campaigns 44 16,364
    1988 campaign 10,829 10,829
    2008 campaign 5,491 5,491
    2008 and 2012 vice presidential campaigns 49 27,980
    2008 campaign 12,057 12,057
    2012 campaign 15,874 15,874
    Vice presidency (2009–2017) 77 38,370
    First term (2009–2013) 23,882 23,882
    Second term (2013–2017) 10,009 14,411
    Role in the 2016 presidential campaign 4,402 4,402
    Post-vice presidency (2017–2021) 6,681 6,681
    2020 presidential campaign 78 31,911
    Speculation and announcement 3,490 3,490
    Campaign 22,421 22,421
    Presidential transition 5,922 5,922
    Presidency (2021–present) 133 191,131
    Inauguration 6,205 6,205
    First 100 days 13,050 13,050
    Domestic policy 9,091 75,090
    Economy 19,243 19,243
    Judiciary 5,690 5,690
    Infrastructure and climate 13,835 13,835
    Immigration 11,500 11,500
    Pardons and commutations 3,271 3,271
    Pardon of Hunter Biden 6,021 6,021
    2022 elections 6,439 6,439
    Foreign policy 5,772 57,693
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan 11,473 11,473
    Russian invasion of Ukraine 12,113 12,113
    China affairs 10,192 10,192
    Israel–Hamas war 14,104 14,104
    NATO enlargement 4,039 4,039
    Investigations 23 13,988
    Retention of classified documents 5,768 5,768
    Business activities 8,197 8,197
    Age and health concerns 7,291 7,291
    2024 presidential campaign 17,681 17,681
    Political positions 30,857 30,857
    Public image 10,788 19,362
    Job approval 7,095 7,095
    Media depictions 1,479 1,479
    See also 238 238
    Notes 138 138
    References 17 1,680
    Citations 34 34
    Works cited 1,629 1,629
    Further reading 1,430 1,430
    External links 119 11,088
    Official 440 440
    Other 10,529 10,529
    Total 462,520 462,520

    NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:
    ] item
    To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to purge this page.

    01. In the lead section, mention that Biden is the oldest president. (RfC February 2021)

    02. There is no consensus on including a subsection about gaffes. (RfC March 2021)

    03. The infobox is shortened. (RfC February 2021)

    04. The lead image is the official 2021 White House portrait. (January 2021, April 2021)

    05. The lead image's caption is Official portrait, 2021. (April 2021)

    06. In the lead sentence, use who is as opposed to serving as when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    07. In the lead sentence, use 46th and current as opposed to just 46th when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    08. In the lead section, do not mention Biden's building of a port to facilitate American aid to Palestinians. (RfC June 2024)

    Israel section

    I agree the CCR suit is undue here, that doesnt have the coverage to merit inclusion, but the criticism of his policies on Israel do have that coverage. @SPECIFICO, would you agree generally that criticism of the support Biden has provided for Israel merits including a sentence on it there? Or, as you reverts indicate, are you simply opposed to any coverage at all? Because you also removed Several scholars have accused Biden of being complicit in or permitting war crimes. citing Finucane, Brian (2023-11-17). "Is Washington Responsible for What Israel Does With American Weapons?". Foreign Affairs. ISSN 0015-7120. Retrieved 2023-12-14.. A number of other sources can be added if you think there isnt weight in sourcing here. nableezy - 17:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

    My thoughts are, this is about his presidency, we can't clutter up this article with stuff about that. Slatersteven (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    But why then include any part of it? It isnt NPOV to not include prominent controversies for the subjects we cover. If his position on the war is covered then so to should criticism of that position. If it doesnt belong at all, then neither does most of that section. nableezy - 17:41, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    I agree, so why cover it at all. Slatersteven (talk) 17:48, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    Sure, if it was gotten rid of entirely I wouldnt be here. But covering it and not including criticism is why I am here. But currently we cover it in the lead and in a subsection, with nary a hint of any of the substantial criticism it has generated. nableezy - 18:02, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    There's criticism of Israel's responses to Oct. 7 but nothing substantial and widespread that's particularly personal to Biden. A few fringey criticisms -- that he's responsible for everything alleged to be done by Netanyahu (whom he views with profound disdain) -- don't make it significant enough for his bio. SPECIFICO talk 20:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    No, there is criticism of the United States in relation to Israel's actions, that criticism is about the policies of Biden, not Israel. And they certainly are not fringe. nableezy - 14:35, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
    In addition to being FRINGE, we also cannot unduly associate "criticism of the United States in relation to Israel's actions" with this biography. SPECIFICO talk 17:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
    There is criticism of Joe Biden's actions as president, which we cover at great length in his biography. nableezy - 17:19, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
    I agree that the CCR lawsuit is very much WP:UNDUE here. Regarding criticism of Biden's stances on the war, if additional sources could be provided it might be worth a sentence or two in the biography and possibly some more space in Presidency of Joe Biden. However, the way that sentence was worded seems weaselly. I don't have access to the full article to read the entire context, but assuming the sentence Several scholars have accused Biden of being complicit in or permitting war crimes is based on the lede's statement Further, U.S. officials risk complicity if Israel uses U.S. support to commit war crimes that seems like a misrepresentation of what the source actually says and how strongly it says it. Regardless, if criticism of Biden's positions on Israel were to be included it would need more sourcing to demonstrate due weight. The Wordsmith 21:55, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    Yes, it is absolutely bonkers that there isn't even a sentence such as "Biden's staunch support for Israel's military campaign in Gaza has sparked significant domestic pushback and protest. Many scholars warn that the United States risks being complicit in war crimes". This is pretty much just a down-the-line account of the situation. Let's do something here. Inspector Semenych (talk) 23:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
    It s not "bonkers" when what you claim is patently untrue. All presidents have supported Israel's right to self-defends. Many college-aged students and some liberal members of Congress support Palestine. This is all routine. Zaathras (talk) 03:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
    It is not routine. And what part of my claim is "patently untrue"? Inspector Semenych (talk) 19:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
    1) It is routine, and 2) pretty much all of it. Your position has gained no consensus, so it is time to move on. Zaathras (talk) 19:05, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
    You aren't actually responding to anything I said, it's just "You're wrong". Give me specifics. The SCALE is so much bigger than what has happened before, which makes it worthy and notable. Inspector Semenych (talk) 19:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

    I was actually going to make a new section on this, but I think it's related to this section so I'll add it here:

    The nickname "Genocide Joe" has gotten significant coverage, including a response from the White House. It's mentioned in John_Kirby_(admiral)'s article. So the question is, shouldn't it be mentioned here on Joe Biden's article, given that it's directed at him?

    Just going off of news reports on Google, we have Yahoo News, CBS News, Washington Examiner, The Guardian, The Hill, CNN, Fox News, The Rolling Stone, Al Jazeera, and others providing coverage of this nickname. I think it makes sense to mention this "Genocide Joe" nickname here on Joe Biden's article, and the "Israel" subsection seems like a good place to put it.--JasonMacker (talk) 22:44, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

    One's angry, frustrated little critics create pejoratives all the time, they are rarely noteworthy in that person's biography. It is certainly not noteworthy to the bio of John Kirby either, and should be removed. It was only added on Nov 27th to a little-trafficked Wiki page. Zaathras (talk) 23:42, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
    The sentiment is widely held throughout the Middle East. It has more importance internationally, I'd say, then a mere domestic policy dispute. KlayCax (talk) 12:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
    US is despised. Dog bites man. SPECIFICO talk 13:46, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

    I support greater mention of the backlash to Biden's policies re Israel-Hamas, potentially in the lede, depending on other's thoughts. I think this policy is likely to define his presidency in the foreign policy arena, and has already generated significant domestic discontent as well. "Genocide Joe" seems more approopriate for the article specifically about the protests. Inspector Semenych (talk) 19:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

    To this non-American, non-expert, Biden's position on Israel seems broadly the same as that of every president for the past 70 years. If it was different, it would definitely be worthy of comment, but without further explanation, I see very little of long term significance in it. HiLo48 (talk) 02:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
    It's significant because it is getting significant pushback in the streets, at universities, even among politicians in his own party. Inspector Semenych (talk) 17:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
    As opposed to strong support, as it would have in the past. Inspector Semenych (talk) 17:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
    That is not even remotely a truthful statement. Support of Israel and opposition to Hamas/Palestinians, and vice versa, does not hew to party lines. At the moment we see the likes of Candace Owens and Ilhan Omar condemning Israel, and the likes of Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden united in their Israel support. Even Donald Trump says he will support Israel by deporting pro-Palestinian student protesters. Zaathras (talk) 17:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
    Strongly agree with the above re support/opposition cutting in unexpected ways, which is why the situation is notable and is (very,very probably) historic. Inspector Semenych (talk) 18:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
    This has become a significant issue for Biden and is the main cause for his decline in support among Muslim voters and possibly also why younger voters now favor Trump. Past presidents did not by the way routinely agree with everything Likud did, as Lawrence J. Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, points out.https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/05/24/ronald-reagan-wasnt-afraid-to-use-leverage-to-hold-israel-to-task/] I certainly agree that not everything that comes up belongs in the article, but this has now achieved due weight for inclusion. TFD (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC):
    Agree - Inspector Semenych (talk) 02:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

    why was his position on the New Castle County council removed?!

    Joe Biden
    Other offices

    It seems like it should be worth noting on his bio as a previous office held. lots of other political leaders have a local offices listed before their entry into federal politics. just seems like it's a random thing to remove and I know it was there in the past 2600:1003:B111:9CE3:0:55:4B2:7101 (talk) 23:00, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

    It is mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of the opening section, it doesn't need to be in the infobox. Zaathras (talk) 00:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
    This has been discussed in the past & the consensus was to 'exclude' from the infobox. GoodDay (talk) 01:01, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
    Support keeping it at bottom of the page, not in infobox, as it is both important to the start of his carrer, yet minor when viewing his career as a whole. Inspector Semenych (talk) 22:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

    Any thoughts on adding this position to the footnotes section of the infobox where the Senate chairmanships are? - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 15:53, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

    Why do we need it, what does it really add? Slatersteven (talk) 16:02, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
    Helps provide an overall summary of Biden's political career? Keep in mind this is just in the footnotes section at the bottom of the infobox since its a minor point of the overall article. Example provided - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
    It's fine there. Certainly a good compromise. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 22:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
    No footnote. What's so important about his time on the New Castle Country council, that 'now & then', somebody wants to add it to the infobox? GoodDay (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2024 (UTC)


    Post Economies

    Paid positions are self retained and housed by the Federal Government. This particular man comes from background including cooking etectera. Most `presidents` were more interesting because they didn't have internet. I know right. After what came before the great depresssion, it seemed that air conditioning was a problem. Not a problem. I know, right. Well, we've seen them all, from Mary Poppins to Charles Earl. Well, after he gets up, the pastimes of being on tv with his constituents add up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6011:C8F0:A3C0:8ABB:AD48:1692:5F54 (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

    What are you suggesting we do to this article? Slatersteven (talk) 14:44, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

    Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2024

    It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Joe Biden. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

    This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

    The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

    Sleepy Joe Biden


    Change to "Joe Biden, also known as Sleepy Joe Biden, is an American politcian Blah blah blah." DanRayy (talk) 12:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

    See wp:blp. Slatersteven (talk) 12:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

    Conservation and old growth forests

    Last time when I added content about the issue to the paragraph "presidency 2021 - present" sub section "infrastructure and climate" it was removed as not enough important. Maybe I really made it too long for a summary page. But I think it worth at least 22 words. There are around 500 in this sub section currently I think. This is what I want to write this time:

    "During his presidency Biden promoted nature conservation so much, that several records was broken. He took steps to protect Old-growth forests."

    Those are the sources. They explicitly mention climate.

    https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-biden-administration-has-reached-conservation-records-in-2023/

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/19/biden-forest-logging-ban-old-trees

    Do you agree that it worth to be written? Alexander Sauda/אלכסנדר סעודה (talk) 14:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

    Not here no. Slatersteven (talk) 14:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
    Categories: