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I will try to explain

My personal problems with the project called The Beatles (I got around that one did I not?) are these:

1:

• People who live on one side of the fence feel very strongly about The Beatles name, and the other side want to keep the Beatles, even though many well-respected sources disagree. This is nothing short of civil war, and very disturbing.
• The proposition that the Beatles who were members of The Beatles - John Paul, George and Ringo - seems to confuse everyone, when it can be easily explained:
• If you can insert any word between "the" and "Beatles", it must be a small "t". As in, "When the individual Beatles bought their own houses..." can also be, "When the Beatles bought their own houses", because it refers to individual members, and not the whole band.
• If you refer to the whole band, it must be The Beatles, as that is their trademark. They only trademarked "the Beatles" as well as "The Beatles" to stop anybody releasing anything with the small "t" name. It's acceptable, even to those of us who want The Beatles. (No, I will not be drawn into a debate about that...) Also, nobody outside the project ever mentions the problem.
• I wonder what editors would say if they were forced to write new York, los Angeles, north Dakota, the mull of Kintyre, stoke-on-Trent, leamington Spa, or new Mexico?

2:

• The efforts of editors to get articles to GA is appalling, and makes the project look like a receptacle for fancruft and chat. An editor on an article I recently worked on often complained about the information that was put in, but did nothing to get it to GA. (Kingboyk, Vera Chuck and Dave, LuciferMorgan, myself and others all successfully worked together on the huge Paul McCartney article).

• The sum of this is that I can not countenance the idea of working on something that I disagree with and have little respect for whilst being berated for my views. I would feel that I would be giving a lot of time and energy with one hand tied behind my back, and being repeatedly rapped on the knuckles for not corresponding with views that I don't believe in.

I am sorry for that, but I feel very strongly that adult people should work together and co-operate. I can't see that ever happening here (even though it did once). andreasegde 18:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Now, I did say I was gonna keep out of this debate (and I'm so sad to see the trouble it's caused) but:

the Beatles who were members of The Beatles

that, as far as I am concerned, hits Maxwell's silver hammer on the head. --kingboyk 22:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Kingboyk, the wise, and all-knowing one (plus being extremely affable and an admin) has just made me feel justified (as Sam Peckinpah once said) and not an outcast. Logic is always helpful in uncertain situations. andreasegde 23:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

And don't forget

Genesis who were members of an unholy pact with Satan which culminated in "Buster"

Nooch--Crestville 23:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Crestville, you are making me laugh, and, if I were an admin, I would block you for being too humorous. (Is there such a thing? I truly hope so... :)) I'm still laughing...) andreasegde 00:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Barnstars

It would be nice to see yours too! Ooh er missus! Vera, Chuck & Dave 20:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

You just gave me my first laugh for ages (Uhh-err Missus, I'm having a touch of the hot flushes don't you know, but it's to be expected at my age, Mrs. Brown... I'd best be off and buy some nice bacon for me husband before he gets home from the night shift at the "Garden Gnomes for every occasion" packing plant. :) Keep well. andreasegde 21:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

For problem, read solution

There you go then! Sykes is a very worthy cause - is it true that he was blind when he made all his shows? Or deaf? I forget. With Ali I can see you coming into conflic with others again, because that would be a very popular topic. You might also want to look for a project with lots of undernourished periferal characters, because that is where you really shone on The Beatles stuff. Dad's Army is a good one, something like that - lots of episode pages and stuff that could so easily be bulked up to GA.

I love the idea that someone I have never met, from a country I've never been to, who's culture and way of life differs from mine, is not only familiar with me, but sick of the sight of me. My Dad will be pleased to hear I have perfected the art of being a pest! Ha ha, I can annoy Austrians without even trying.--Crestville 23:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC) P.s. of course she knows who Kingboyk is, he's the first one any of us will have spoken to becuase he's a pure professional.

Actually - you Oasis sprog - Marion (me bird) loves listening about my trials and tribulations and my funny stories about you lot. She respects people that I respect, because she's interested in this weird thing called English humour (she laughs a lot, but she's not sure why - even though her Uncle was in the S.S., but she doesn't like talking about that... :)) Anyway, after all this complimentary talk about how good-looking you are, I will ask her what she thinks. She might say that you look like a potato with ears, or a pineapple with hair (like I look) but I will send you her comments (in German, with English sub-titles). andreasegde 23:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

She must be phenominally patient to sit listening to tales of our dozey conversations. I don't think my loved ones would stand it.--Crestville 00:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

She does, because I present them in such an intelligent, loving, and explainable way. You are now allowed to shoot me in the foot with a WWI rifle... (Ouch!) andreasegde 00:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute - are you saying that you NEVER talk about Wiki-stuff? Jesus Huddersfield, I respect your self-control, and the fact that you are an accomplished liar, my dear Cresty... andreasegde 00:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I never do, honstly! They wouldn't know/care what I was on about.--Crestville 00:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Jesus Kingston-upon-Hull - you must have an interesting life. I don't wish to contine this line of thought, as me bird might quote your sentence to me (she looks at my page when she's on the night shift with crazed kids to check whether you are really real, or just a figment of my imagination). Oh dear, I have just shot myself in the foot again... andreasegde 00:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry Drew, I'm definately not a figment of your imagination, you didn't just steal a picture from a random myspace account and use it as the basis of a virtual friend. That definately didn't happen. I also hope dear Marion is cooking lasagne for my your tea tonight and also that she will do that thing I, andreasedge YOU like in the bedroom. To reiterate, I, Joe, am real and not just a figment of my own andreasedge's increasingly unstable mind.andreasegde... I mean Crestville!

She might do me breakfast, as it is 2:49 in the morning (in sausage-land) and I am watching Eastenders on BBC Prime. andreasegde 00:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

1:52am here. Listening to the Al Murray podcast. The fuck are we playing at? Bed!--Crestville 00:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Es macht meinen Nachtdienst viel kürzer, wenn ich mit euch lachen kann! (sub-titles needed?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.186.50.33 (talk) 03:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC). This comment was added by me bird, like. Jesus Heckmondwike, she's on here as well now. I say she only looks at this page to see if I'm really at home. andreasegde 17:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong dildle eye po. The preceding comment was added by a deceased person

99 Luftballons, Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont, Hielt man fuer UFOs, aus dem All, Darum schickte ein General, Eine Fliegerstaffel hinterher, Alarm zu geben, wenn es so war, Dabei war da am Horizont, Nur 99 Luftballons. The preceding comment was added by Nena

Oi, what have we here? Two bleedin' stormtrooper humorists zat are plastering my page with ze Austrian/German languages? I mog es gern, aber ich hab genug mit meine freundin, danke. andreasegde 19:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Bitte nicht auf den treppen sitzen! The Caretaker

Did you just read Crestville's page? If you didn't, then this is spooky! andreasegde 17:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

NO! IT'S SPOOKY! Vera, Chuck & Dave 17:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we both think about painful things in our nether regions a lot? Bottle of wine in the "big white telephone"? Uhh-err, Missus, we're talking in code here... andreasegde 20:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Let there be light

But first he had to wait to be connected to the grid. andreasegde 17:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Why I left the Beatles Project

Misplaced Pages is the overall arbiter of policy over constituent articles or Projects. Misplaced Pages has rules and guidelines. I apply Misplaced Pages rules and guidelines to every article/project I edit. As regards the matter of consensus, the rules/guidelines clearly state that debate must be backed by third party references (same as getting articles to G/FA) - and the 'little t' proponents were (and remain) the only party to provide same. If I, as the smallest group, took the decision that the little t proponents had achieved consensus then it was done in accordance with the policies, rules and guidelines of Misplaced Pages.

I understand the arguments for the use of big T, and support nearly all of them. What I can't do is find any good third party authority which supports this position.

I was debating this matter for a very long time previously, and for a period the arguments that I had found, and the efforts I had put in in finding those arguments, held sway and achieved the necessary consensus. Many of the little t proponents accepted the position, and continued to edit Project articles under that basis (and those that didn't stayed away).

I have always attempted to place my arguments and points in the appropriate areas, and to debate them civilly. If this took up a lot of space and led to neglecting editing articles it was because I believed in the necessity of explaining myself and understanding opposing views.

I was and am dismayed and angry that individuals believe that they can ignore rules, policy, and consensus, on the grounds that they know best and they work hard on specified articles. I am fucking livid with the inference that editors that work mainly on improving article space are somehow more valid and valuable than those who work in the other areas of projects or articles.

I'm a policy wonk. I do things by the book. If I don't like policy I try to change them within the rules, but I would never subvert policy. On this basis I cannot be part of this Project. I will edit articles as before, take part in debate on talkpages, as any editor but I will not get involved any further in discussion about how things should be done because I have no expectation that parties will abide by decisions that they disagree with no matter how legitimately they were arrived at. I am not prepared to be any part in such selfishness arrogance.

So until you grow up, Andrew, you can fuck off and play with your precious pet articles. Count me out. LessHeard vanU 13:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)