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UN list of dependent territories

User:Chipmunkdavis, User:Roger 8 Roger, User:Xevres, User:Wee Curry Monster My addition of the United Nations list of non-self-governing territories was reverted and object of a dispute. We should discuss whether to add it or remove it or something else.

Although there is a stand-alone page for it, the practice is prevalent to mirror some content of subtopics in the relevant pages. Therefore, I don't think my succinct table is redundant. In fact, I think omitting said information from this page is less than ideal, because it is essential information to the subject of the page. There may be text indicating that a dependent territory is on the UN list but it would be more practical and better format to have a separate table of said list as well. Thinker78 (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Mirroring the table is redundant. We don't eg. have the US State Department list of dependent territories. CMD (talk) 00:52, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm puzzled by the section added above, aimed as it is toward a bunch of seasoned editors, it seems to me to violate WP:DTTR and aimed to browbeat your fellow editors. I'm sure that I may have misconstrued your motives but felt it important to bring to your attention, ie even if that were not your intention it rather frames your approach to comments. To add to the discussion, I am mildly in favour of the addition of that table but I also recognise the strong arguments against it; namely that is to some extent redundant and incomplete. As such I'm not inclined to press for inclusion, rather suggesting that a more rounded and complete approach is required. As currently formulated I'm not in favour of inclusion but I would be prepared to consider a constructive proposal that addresses the concerns presented. WCM_email 17:16, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Argumentum ad verecundiam. I have been in Misplaced Pages long enough to know that senior editors are not perfect (btw, I did not use a template). But tbh before posting the policies I was going to report the page to the edit warring noticeboard to be analyzed by editors more experienced about the issue. I decided against and instead just post the aforementioned thread that generated irk. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:40, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis maybe we should, as the US is a world power. I would understand if we don't have 10 lists of 10 different countries or organizations in this page. But it may be a good idea to include a select few of the most notable ones and make mention of others. After all, how was the current list compiled? Does it pick and choose items to include, does it have consistency? Thinker78 (talk) 20:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

It was compiled by consensus, and does have consistency. There are always questions around the system (as there are with all similar topics), however these are more noticeable here as a reflection of the topic itself, which has always somewhat of a term of convenience. CMD (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Comment I think we should list the UN list of dependent territories at the top, since this is the official list of dependent territories recognized by the United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization. Then we can add other remaining inhabited dependent territories by country. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 05:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Uninhabited territories should be removed though. They aren't country-like dependencies, they don't even have a local government and they have no people to be governed either. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 07:18, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The West Bank and Gaza?

Should this article list the West Bank and Gaza as Dependent Territories? Per the Gaza article: "The territories of Gaza and the West Bank are separated from each other by Israeli territory. Both fell under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, but the Strip is governed by Hamas, a militant, fundamentalist Islamic organization, which came to power in the last-held elections in 2006." Rxtreme (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

A dependent territory must be legally external to the metropolitan state, which in turn must exercise control over it. How does this apply? TFD (talk) 19:51, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The West Bank is directly controlled by the State of Palestine, the Gaza Strip is controlled by a rebel militant group (Hamas). Both territories are integral parts of the State of Palestine, they are not dependent territories. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Uninhabited islands and Antarctic claims

Uninhabited islands are not dependent territories. To be a dependent territory, the entity needs to function like a country, i.e. it should have three key elements: a defined territory, a permanent population, and a functioning local government. Uninhabited islands only have a defined territory and nothing else, they are not dependent territories. It doesn't matter what their administering states call them, they are merely "overseas territories" directly administered by their central governments.

All Antarctic claims are also uninhabited and therefore they are not dependent territories too.

I propose the removal of the following 24 territories and territorial claims from the list of dependent territories:

Uninhabited islands

1. Akrotiri and Dhekelia (military bases)
2. Ashmore and Cartier Islands
3. Bajo Nuevo Bank
4. Baker Island
5. Bouvet Island
6. British Indian Ocean Territory (Chagos Archipelago)
7. Clipperton Island
8. Coral Sea Islands
9. Heard Island and McDonald Islands
10. Howland Island
11. Jarvis Island
12. Johnston Atoll
13. Kingman Reef
14. Midway Atoll
15. Navassa Island
16. Serranilla Bank
17. South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
18. Wake Island

Antarctic claims

1. Australian Antarctic Territory
2. British Antarctic Territory
3. French Southern and Antarctic Lands
4. Peter I Island
5. Queen Maud Land
6. Ross Dependency

2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Where did you get these definitions? Did you just make them up? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

"Dependencies and other territories" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Dependencies and other territories has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 31 § Dependencies and other territories until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Possible vandalism

Please roll back the latest edits in the article to approximately the state of January 7, 2024. User Koavf changed the header of the tables of the dependent territories of New Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom. Firstly, the matter has not been completed, and secondly, it has only gotten worse, since it is now unclear which territories are uninhabited and which are claimed.

Also, Palmyra Atoll was added to the table of dependent territories of the United States, although the table states before the table that this territory is excluded from the list because “it is classified as an incorporated territory under US law”. The result is a contradiction between the text, table and image at the very beginning of the article.

I apologize in advance for possible mistakes—I live in Russia and do not fully speak English.

Откатите, пожалуйста, последние правки в статье примерно до состояния на 7 января 2024 года. Пользователь Koavf изменил шапку таблиц зависимых территорий Новой Зеландии, Норвегии и Соединённого Королевства. Во-первых, дело не доведено до конца, а во-вторых, стало только хуже, поскольку теперь непонятно, какие территории необитаемы, а какие — заявлены.

Также в таблицу зависимых территорий Соединённых Штатов был добавлен атолл Пальмира, хотя перед таблицей сказано, что данная территория исключена из списка, так как «в законодательстве США она классифицируется как инкорпорированная территория». В итоге получается противоречие между текстом, таблицей и изображением в самом начале статьи.

Заранее извиняюсь за возможные ошибки — я живу в России и не в полной мере владею английским языком. Alexander Berezin 17.12.2002 (talk) 13:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support The old version is indeed a better one. The edits made by Koavf violate both WP:NPOV and WP:POINT. These edits should be reverted. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:D8C5:91F5:82F8:EFF4 (talk) 15:52, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  What? How are they NPOV or POINT-y? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

These are required by MOS:TABLECAPTION. Do not remove them, just improve them. See also MOS:COLHEAD. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Koavf, your edits seem to have created new "Status" titles for NZ and Norway. Where were they from and why were the old ones changed? As for Palmyra that was not in Koavf's edits, and either way I have reverted. CMD (talk) 04:34, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

"Where were they from" ??? and "why were the old ones changed?" MOS:TABLECAPTION. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:39, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Could you explain how MOS:TABLECAPTION requires the changing of "Dependent territory" to "Territory" in some cases and "Dependency" in other cases? CMD (talk) 04:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

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