Revision as of 20:31, 15 June 2024 editLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,704 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory/Archive 31) (bot← Previous edit | Revision as of 05:42, 22 June 2024 edit undoAmlans (talk | contribs)52 edits →Semi-protected Edit Request on 22 June 2024: new sectionNext edit → | ||
Line 133: | Line 133: | ||
By the way last april a youtube channel published a video chapter about the Cultural Marxism narrative: Some More News (which is not just Cody Johnston, there is a whole team behind him), Elon Musk's Hitler Problem, 2024-04-04, chapter 9 Wokeness & the roots of Cultural Marxism, from 49:33 to 57:49, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4#t=49m ] (]) 08:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC) | By the way last april a youtube channel published a video chapter about the Cultural Marxism narrative: Some More News (which is not just Cody Johnston, there is a whole team behind him), Elon Musk's Hitler Problem, 2024-04-04, chapter 9 Wokeness & the roots of Cultural Marxism, from 49:33 to 57:49, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4#t=49m ] (]) 08:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC) | ||
== Semi-protected Edit Request on 22 June 2024 == | |||
{{edit semi-protected|Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory|answered=no}} | |||
1. Please change "Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory" page title to "Cultural Marxism controversy" | |||
2. Please change "...refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for..." to "refers to a controversial theory that characterizes the Frankfurt School as being responsible for..." | |||
3. Please remove the "antisemitism" sidebar. | |||
4. Please change "A contemporary revival of the Nazi propaganda term 'Cultural Bolshevism', the contemporary version of the conspiracy theory originated in the United States during the 1990s" to "The contemporary Cultural Marxism theory originated in the United States during the 1990s. Some scholars have likened it to the Nazi propaganda term "Cultural Bolshevism." | |||
5. Please change the statement "Scholarly analysis of the conspiracy theory has concluded that it has no basis in fact" to "Some scholars believe the controversy has some validity while others conclude that it has no basis in fact." | |||
'''DETAIL - ''' | |||
A. The Frankfurt School is well-documented as being a major driving force in social and political philosophical thought of the 20th and 21st century. See Sources 9, 10, 11, and 12 | |||
B. The Frankfurt School is well-documented as being noteworthy for its support of utilizing a “cultural” approach for popularizing Marxism. See Sources 8, 10, 11, and 12 | |||
C. It cannot be stated with any definitive authority that the present-day controversy on “cultural marxism” is inherently anti-semtitic, as the subject of discussion is in no way inherently related to Judaism, is not hostile towards Jewish people, and is not hostile towards Jewish beliefs. The subject of controversy in "cultural marxism" debates is Marxism, not Judaism. See Sources 5, 7, and 10. | |||
D. Some of the most influential Marxist thinkers of all time have explicitly advocated for the popularization of Marxist through the overpowering of hegemonic thought through mainstream cultural avenues. This is undeniable fact. See Sources 4, 5, 6, and 10 | |||
E. Marxist thinking has indeed been growing in popularity. This is undeniable fact. If the Frankfurt Schools is understood as being the driving force of contemporary Marxian thinking (see point A) with a cultural twist (see points B and D), then it is only logical to connect this growth to Frankfurt School roots. See Sources 1, 2, 3, and 9 | |||
<ref>{{cite web |title=U.S. Attitudes Toward Socialism, Communism, and Collectivism: October 2020 |url=https://victimsofcommunism.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/10.19.20-VOC-YouGov-Survey-on-U.S.-Attitudes-Toward-Socialism-Communism-and-Collectivism.pdf |website=Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation |publisher=Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and YouGov}}</ref> | |||
<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Berringer |first1=Felicity |title=The Mainstreaming of Marxism in U.S. Colleges |journal=The New York Times |date=1989 |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/25/us/education-the-mainstreaming-of-marxism-in-us-colleges.html?fbclid=IwAR3N1H0Hr6l7fJzT5-AmMAZE5kSljxAl5Bm8KRGibJ7IY6x1FbHINA39T00}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Salai |first1=Sean |title=U.S. Adults Increasingly Accept Marxist Views, Poll Shows |journal=The Washington Times |date=2021 |url=https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/oct/6/us-adults-increasingly-accept-marxist-views-poll/}}</ref> | |||
<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Anderson |first1=Perry |title=The Antimonies of Antonio Gramsci |journal=New Left Review |date=1976 |url=https://newleftreview.org/issues/i100/articles/perry-anderson-the-antinomies-of-antonio-gramsci}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Zubatov |first1=Alexander |title=Just Because Anti-Semites Talk About ‘Cultural Marxism’ Doesn’t Mean It Isn’t Real |journal=Tablet |date=2018 |url=https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory&preload=Template%3ASubmit+an+edit+request%2Fpreload&action=edit§ion=new&editintro=Template%3AEdit+semi-protected%2Feditintro&preloadtitle=Semi-protected+edit+request+on+22+June+2024&preloadparams%5B%5D=edit+semi-protected&preloadparams%5B%5D=Cultural+Marxism+conspiracy+theory}}</ref> | |||
<ref>{{cite web |title=Long march through the institutions |url=https://en.wikipedia.org/Long_march_through_the_institutions |website=Misplaced Pages |access-date=22 June 2024}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Stone |first1=Danny |title=Is the Term 'Cultural Marxism' Really Antisemitic? How the Phrase Became the Latest Flashpoint in the Culture Wars |journal=The Jewish Chronicle |date=2023 |url=https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/is-the-term-cultural-marxism-really-antisemitic-rn6x61tm}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Breshears |first1=Jefrey |title=The Origins of Cultural Marxism and Political Correctness |url=https://www.theareopagus.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Origins-of-Cultural-Marxism-2-Article-Revised.pdf |publisher=The Areopagus}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=McCarthy |first1=Michael |title=The Neo-Marxist Legacy in American Sociology |journal=Annual Review of Sociology |date=2011 |volume=37 |pages=155-83 |url=https://www.academia.edu/43824477/The_Neo_Marxist_Legacy_in_American_Sociology}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Sunshine |first1=Glenn |title=Cultural Marxism: Gramsci and the Frankfurt School |journal=Breakpoint |date=2019 |url=https://breakpoint.org/cultural-marxism-gramsci-and-the-frankfurt-school-emerging-worldviews-4/}}</ref> | |||
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Kellner |first1=Douglas |title=The Frankfurt School |url=https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/frankfurtschool.pdf |website=UCLA School of Education and Information Studies |access-date=22 June 2024}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Ryoo |first1=J.J. |last2=McLaren |first2=P. |title=Critical Theory |journal=International Encyclopedia of Education |date=2010 |issue=3 |pages=348-353 |url=https://www.scribd.com/document/712788749/Critical-Theory-from-International-Encycl-J-J-Ryoo}}</ref> ] (]) 05:43, 22 June 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 05:42, 22 June 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting. |
view · edit Frequently asked questions
Some common points of argument are addressed in the FAQ below, which represents the consensus of editors here. Please remember that this page is only for discussing how to improve this article. |
This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Misplaced Pages policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Misplaced Pages are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
A warning about certain sources: There are two sources on the subject of "Cultural Marxism" that represent a citogenesis or circular reporting risk to Misplaced Pages as they plagiarize verbatim directly from an outdated draft that came from Misplaced Pages, which can be found here (2006 revision here). The sources are N.D. Arora's Political Science for Civil Services Main Examination (2013) and A.S. Kharbe's English Language And Literary Criticism (2009); both are from publishers located in New Delhi and should be avoided to prevent a citogenesis incident. |
Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the title "Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory" to just "Cultural Marxism"
All similar conspiracy theory pages on Misplaced Pages do not mention the words "conspiracy theory" in the title. Apply this change for consistency and to mitigate bias. The fact that it is currently a conspiracy theory is already explained in the definition on the first paragraph. TDBY (talk) 12:04, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not done. Many, although admittedly not all, of our articles about conspiracy theories have "conspiracy theory" or something similar in the title. This is helpful in cases where readers might not be aware that the topic is a conspiracy theory when they see the article on, say, a See Also list. It also discourages bad actors from trying to reframe the article as not a conspiracy. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Some examples:
- CIA Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory
- 9/11 conspiracy theories
- Moon landing conspiracy theories
- Masonic conspiracy theories
- New World Order (conspiracy theory)
- FEMA camps conspiracy theory
- Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories
- Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories
- Spygate (conspiracy theory)
- International Jewish conspiracy
- Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory
- UFO conspiracy theory
- Climate change conspiracy theory 220.240.139.105 (talk) 01:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- This is a different kind of conspiracy theory designation. Look, there they only talk about a specific case, which is a conspiracy theory, but here they talk about the phenomenon as a whole, which is a conspiracy theory. 176.120.212.168 (talk) 12:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Masonic conspiracy theories? New World Order (conspiracy theory)? International Jewish conspiracy? Climate change conspiracy theory?
this is a different kind
. /this is different
. / No it's not. See FAQ Question 1. TucanHolmes (talk) 12:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)"This is a different kind of conspiracy theory designation"
- This is called special pleading.
- In actuality the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory falls into #2 and #3 of Barkun's three types of conspiracy theories. More so #2 than #3.... but the point is, all three types get labelled as conspiracy theories on Misplaced Pages. There has been no plot or organized take over of society by Marxist theorists. Marxists theorists having conversations about their culture doesn't constitute a take over - it's just free speech. Much like when Libertarians talk about Libertarian culture, it's just free speech, or when Conservatives talk about Conservative culture.
- When Marxists analyze culture it's called Marxist cultural analysis. They're free to do this. Claiming it's become a successful plot and has taken over or aimed to involuntarily take over society, when you can't provide evidence/sources/quotes for this being their plan, or being a result of a direct action from a conspiratorial plan - then it's a conspiracy theory. That's what this article is about, conspiracy claims around The Frankfurt School, particularly in regards to them having taken over society or politics (when in actual fact, most of their ideas aren't even popular, and they never detail a plan to take over).
- Marxists are free to use the words "cultural Marxism" - this does not mean they're using it in the same way as conservatives use it when they're describing a plan to take over. You have to actually find quotes of Marxists using those words to reference a plan to take over society. But there never has been such a plan, and when society turns to the left it does so voluntarily because leftwing ideas are chosen as more rational, realistic or popular. Not out of some conspiratorial mechanism, plot, or action.
- So yes, the contents of the article is about a conservative conspiracy theory, in which conservatives claim progressive politics are secretly controlled by, or caused by a Marxist plot to take over society. In some instances the claim is that this plot has succeeded and controls the media, and large corporations. In some instances it's claimed this plot is caused by Jewish people specifically. Some mass shootings have been caused by this theory. It's a conspiracy theory, and so it's labelled as such on Misplaced Pages. 115.166.14.213 (talk) 06:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- This is a different kind of conspiracy theory designation. Look, there they only talk about a specific case, which is a conspiracy theory, but here they talk about the phenomenon as a whole, which is a conspiracy theory. 176.120.212.168 (talk) 12:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Since some reliable sources use the term cultural Marxism to refer to a group of Marxist scholars who analyze capitalist culture as opposed to capitalist economics, it is necessary to distinguish the two. The conspiracy theorists who first used the term cultural Marxism were unaware that anyone else had used it. I don't know whether that was because they had very little knowledge of Marxism or because the texts were obscure or both. They were updating the Nazi term "cultural Bolshevism," with which they were very familiar. TFD (talk) 03:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is worth noting that, even if a few people looking for that non-conspiracy stuff end up here by mistake, there is a note at the very top of the article pointing them in the right direction for what they want. DanielRigal (talk) 12:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Cultural Marxism
'Cultural Marxism refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory'
Response:
The characterization of 'Cultural Marxism' as a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory serves as a means to discredit & cancel legitimate criticisms of Marxist ideology.
While Antonio Gramsci never explicitly coined the term 'Cultural Marxism,' it accurately represents principles within his neo-Marxist philosophy.
This characterization mirrors the approach often taken towards critiques of Critical Race Theory, whereby dissenting voices are categorized as racism. GaryI1965 (talk) 05:31, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- I there any argument, evidence or source supporting those claims? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 07:48, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- «The characterization of 'Cultural Marxism' as a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory serves as a means to discredit & cancel legitimate criticisms of Marxist ideology.» => Because you say so? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 12:16, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- e cultural Marxist conspiracy theory is not a legitimate criticism of Marxism, which is why it is a conspiracy theory. Unlike rational criticisms, it relies on false claims. TFD (talk) 01:25, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
2024-06 Berkeley
Older versions of the Misplaced Pages article link Special:permalink/566221148#External links a blog article by Bruce Miller, November 21, 2011, A crackpot far-right theory on the Frankfurt School and "political correctness",
- http://townsendlab.berkeley.edu/frankfurt-school-working-group/blogs/crackpot-far-right-theory-frankfurt-school-and-political-correc
- http://townsendcenter.berkeley.edu/node/38/frankfurt-school-working-group/blogs/crackpot-far-right-theory-frankfurt-school-and-political-correc
I can not find this blog article in The Wayback Machine. I can not find any part of the encompassing blog in The Wayback Machine. Help?
I found a comment by some «Bruce Miller» under a blog article by Ben Alpers, July 25, 2011, The Frankfurt School, Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories, and American Conservatism, https://s-usih.org/2011/07/frankfurt-school-right-wing-conspiracy/ Is this useful?
By the way last april a youtube channel published a video chapter about the Cultural Marxism narrative: Some More News (which is not just Cody Johnston, there is a whole team behind him), Elon Musk's Hitler Problem, 2024-04-04, chapter 9 Wokeness & the roots of Cultural Marxism, from 49:33 to 57:49, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4#t=49m Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 08:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected Edit Request on 22 June 2024
It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |
1. Please change "Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory" page title to "Cultural Marxism controversy"
2. Please change "...refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for..." to "refers to a controversial theory that characterizes the Frankfurt School as being responsible for..."
3. Please remove the "antisemitism" sidebar.
4. Please change "A contemporary revival of the Nazi propaganda term 'Cultural Bolshevism', the contemporary version of the conspiracy theory originated in the United States during the 1990s" to "The contemporary Cultural Marxism theory originated in the United States during the 1990s. Some scholars have likened it to the Nazi propaganda term "Cultural Bolshevism."
5. Please change the statement "Scholarly analysis of the conspiracy theory has concluded that it has no basis in fact" to "Some scholars believe the controversy has some validity while others conclude that it has no basis in fact."
DETAIL - A. The Frankfurt School is well-documented as being a major driving force in social and political philosophical thought of the 20th and 21st century. See Sources 9, 10, 11, and 12
B. The Frankfurt School is well-documented as being noteworthy for its support of utilizing a “cultural” approach for popularizing Marxism. See Sources 8, 10, 11, and 12
C. It cannot be stated with any definitive authority that the present-day controversy on “cultural marxism” is inherently anti-semtitic, as the subject of discussion is in no way inherently related to Judaism, is not hostile towards Jewish people, and is not hostile towards Jewish beliefs. The subject of controversy in "cultural marxism" debates is Marxism, not Judaism. See Sources 5, 7, and 10.
D. Some of the most influential Marxist thinkers of all time have explicitly advocated for the popularization of Marxist through the overpowering of hegemonic thought through mainstream cultural avenues. This is undeniable fact. See Sources 4, 5, 6, and 10
E. Marxist thinking has indeed been growing in popularity. This is undeniable fact. If the Frankfurt Schools is understood as being the driving force of contemporary Marxian thinking (see point A) with a cultural twist (see points B and D), then it is only logical to connect this growth to Frankfurt School roots. See Sources 1, 2, 3, and 9
Amlans (talk) 05:43, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- "U.S. Attitudes Toward Socialism, Communism, and Collectivism: October 2020" (PDF). Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and YouGov.
- Berringer, Felicity (1989). "The Mainstreaming of Marxism in U.S. Colleges". The New York Times.
- Salai, Sean (2021). "U.S. Adults Increasingly Accept Marxist Views, Poll Shows". The Washington Times.
- Anderson, Perry (1976). "The Antimonies of Antonio Gramsci". New Left Review.
- Zubatov, Alexander (2018). "Just Because Anti-Semites Talk About 'Cultural Marxism' Doesn't Mean It Isn't Real". Tablet.
- "Long march through the institutions". Misplaced Pages. Retrieved 22 June 2024.
- Stone, Danny (2023). "Is the Term 'Cultural Marxism' Really Antisemitic? How the Phrase Became the Latest Flashpoint in the Culture Wars". The Jewish Chronicle.
- Breshears, Jefrey. "The Origins of Cultural Marxism and Political Correctness" (PDF). The Areopagus.
- McCarthy, Michael (2011). "The Neo-Marxist Legacy in American Sociology". Annual Review of Sociology. 37: 155–83.
- Sunshine, Glenn (2019). "Cultural Marxism: Gramsci and the Frankfurt School". Breakpoint.
- Kellner, Douglas. "The Frankfurt School" (PDF). UCLA School of Education and Information Studies. Retrieved 22 June 2024.
- Ryoo, J.J.; McLaren, P. (2010). "Critical Theory". International Encyclopedia of Education (3): 348–353.
- Misplaced Pages controversial topics
- B-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- B-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- WikiProject United States articles
- B-Class Conservatism articles
- Low-importance Conservatism articles
- WikiProject Conservatism articles
- B-Class socialism articles
- Low-importance socialism articles
- WikiProject Socialism articles
- B-Class politics articles
- Low-importance politics articles
- B-Class American politics articles
- Low-importance American politics articles
- American politics task force articles
- WikiProject Politics articles
- B-Class Discrimination articles
- Low-importance Discrimination articles
- WikiProject Discrimination articles
- B-Class Judaism articles
- Low-importance Judaism articles
- B-Class Skepticism articles
- Low-importance Skepticism articles
- WikiProject Skepticism articles
- B-Class Alternative views articles
- Low-importance Alternative views articles
- WikiProject Alternative views articles
- Misplaced Pages pages referenced by the press
- Misplaced Pages semi-protected edit requests