Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:40, 16 April 2007

Matter (say, a meter stick, an atom, or Solar system) does not expand with expansion of space during Big Bang - simply because size of matter is determined by fundamental constants (say, the size of H and other atoms - by speed of light c and Plank's constant h, the size of planetary orbit - by the gravitational constant G). As long as these (fundamental) constants stay about the same during space expansion, the size of atom, molecule, planet, etc can not change.

At present there are no indications that the value of fundamental constants c,h,G change during Big Bang, at least during last 1000-fold increase of size of Universe.

If matter (say, a meter stick) would expand with the expansion of space then we would not notice expansion of space at all.

RE:"Energy" article

Could you let me know what exactly was incorrect in my corrections (say, about energy or kinetic energy)?

Right now article Energy again has wrong definition of energy (as "ability to do work"). What units does the "ability" have?

Sincerely, Enormousdude.

• The ability to do work has, of course, the same units as work itself.
• I appreciate (and share) your desire to make all definitions rigorous, but there are places where a more intuitive approach is necessary. Some things can't be satisfactorily defined rigorously, and an intuitive explanation is required to provide a shared understanding.
• The current definition of energy is also the one I'm familiar with. It is not essentially different than the one you give here; A more precise formulation fits best later in the article, and not in the introduction. Remember, this is an encyclopedia, not a textbook. This isn't a dictionary either - It's primary purpose is to provide knowledge and understanding, not definitions.
• As also suggested by Linas, you should make sure that your grammar is correct when making edits. Especially note the usage of "the" and "a" (I know these don't exist in Russian, making it perhaps a bit confusing. But please make an effort).

Regards, -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 17:06, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"Ability" is not a quantity - it has no units. If you want to assign units to it, then what units does the "ability" have? Say, "ability" to rotate? If you want to assign units to "ability to do work" quantity (which by the way, also does not exist in physics), then as you said they must be the the units of work (Joule = Newton x meter). Then what is the point to have TWO identical quantities: "work" and "ability to do work" - especially in light of having one ("work") already well defined long ago, and the other ("ability to do work" is not defined at all)?

Sincerely, Enormousdude.

Welcome!

Welcome!

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Please be careful about your english grammer. Some of the changes that you made, while technically correct, had bad english grammer, and I think that this might upset some people. Anyway, I invite you to join the conversations on the talk pages of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Physics. linas 02:45, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I will pay more attention to my English grammar (does not it spell as grammAr and not as you incorrectly spell it (grammEr), by the way? And should not you capitalize E in English instead of incorrectly writing as english ?) Enormousdude 18:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Non-NPOV contributions to Special Relativity

I have removed your contribution to the SR article regarding the 2nd postulate for the reason that is non-NPOV. Please review the Misplaced Pages guidelines for contributions. Alfred Centauri 00:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

A related note from another editor c is not the coupling constant of electromagnetism anyway. Instead that is something called "epsilon-naught" (a Greek epsilon with a suffix of 0). --EMS | Talk 02:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Who said c (actually c^2) is not the coupling constant of e/m interactions? Only non-educated in physics person can tell that.

Neither permittivity of free space (epsilon naught) nor permeability of free space (mu naught) are the coupling constants of e/m interactions - ask any physics major if in doubt. The permeability of free space is defined as 4 pi 10^-7 (exact), and the permittivity of free space is defined via the speed of light in vacuum - as 1/(mu naugh c^2) - also EXACT.

Should I cite here numerous textbooks - like "University physics" by Young & Freedmann, "Physics for scientists and engineers" by Serway & Jewett, "Modern physics" by John R. Taylor, as well as CODATA recommended list of physical constants (like the list in Physical Review D, volume 66, N 1-I, page 77, July 2002)?

So the Coulomb constant 1/(4 pi epsilon) is therefore equal (10^-7)c^2, and the Coulomb force between charges is proportional to the c^2.

So, please undelete my comments back.

Enormousdude 20:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I just saw this conversation on your talk page. Actually, the coupling constant of electromagnetism is widely known to be the dimensionless fine-structure constant α. –Joke 14:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I am not talking about coupling constant (which actually is the ratio of strength of e/m interactions to nuclear) but about Coulomb constant with is proportional to speed of light squared. This is the constant which reflects not relative but absoute strength of e/m force.

The reason I removed your contribution regarding the 2nd postulate is because it is non-NPOV. There are many references which explicitly state that the 2nd postulate is not redundant. Thus, your claim that it is redundant is controversial and so cannot be stated as a fact in a Misplaced Pages article.

For the record, it is my opinion that the 2nd postulate is equivalent to the assertion 'Maxwell's equations, which predict the speed of light is c, correctly describe electromagnetism'. This assertion is not contained within the 1st postulate and so, IMHO, the 2nd postulate is not redundant. Therefore, I will not undelete your contribution as it is non-NPOV. Alfred Centauri 23:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Maxwell equations can not PREDICT speed of light because they are not fundamental - they are just a mathematical CONSEQUENCE of gauge invariance (=existence and conservation of electric charge) within Minkowsky space-time (=symmetry between space and time with given conversion factor between time and space coordinates being fundamental constant c). So, constancy of speed of light is a mathematical consequence of higher than simple Euclidean symmetry our space-time posesses (Minkowskianity of it if you wish), but not vice versa as you trying to insist.

Theory article

Thank you for that edit. I didn't quite have the courage to just wipe the nonsense right out...Kenosis 15:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, somehow Misplaced Pages is choke full of garbage. I don't understand why editors don't care. Enormousdude 20:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hello. Please remember to always provide an edit summary. Thanks and happy editing. NickelShoe (Talk) 19:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Interesting

Hey. I like our recent additions to physics and philosophy of physics, but they were not constructive in any way, so I reverted them. Karol 22:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverts

Dude, most of your edits are not helpful nor particular lucid. In fact, you seem to be getting routinely reverted. How about fewer, but more carefully considered contributions? Nonsuch 17:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

As you can see, most of my edits were NOT reverted - after people read textbooks and real encyclopedia, they find that my edits are correct.

And if some are reverted, they are reverted by someone who does not understand the subject much (or in depth) - like passerby laymen. I give them some time to learn. You may look up to compare my (mostly accurate) edits with reverted (less accurate) statements.

This happens because wikipedia is NOT an encyclopedia (as it says in it mission statement), but a wikipedia - collection of opinions. Opinion does not have to be accurate or factual, right? Any opinion is ok (as you can see from numerous inaccurate statements in Misplaced Pages). Enormousdude 19:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

At least 10 of the articles you edited yesterday (17th April 2006) were immediately reverted or substantially corrected. Nonsuch 20:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Again (as I said) - not all editors are educated in the subject they edit. Enormousdude 21:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Clear definitions

Please be careful with your editing. Your page states:

Likes: clear definitions (...)

Dislikes: lack of thereof. Often people lack clear definition of the subject they discuss...

You recently contributed photon density and quantum statistics, which were not very clear or well constructed. Please take a bit more care, and put a bit more effort, into your articles. linas 02:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Energy definition

While it is good to like clear definitions, logic, analythical thinking, it is not so good to be very narrow minded.

Your edit in the definition of energy, was rather narrow minded, it would have been better if you had gone through the history of the page and tried to find out why some one entered the earlier definition. Charlie 09:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean? I don't understand. Enormousdude 19:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Let me try to explain, you probably very well know that wikipedia is different from a text book of physics. Its readership is much more general, and goes beyond physics students. The word energy, as has, emerged from the contributions from various authors is not just a physics word. It has much wider usage. So I believe that is much more appropriate to include the definition of the word as it is used in the context of physics, a bit later; as has been done. This is just to remove the obvious bias which physicists harbor about the usage of the word. I hope you understand now. Charlie 08:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, I am not talking about "spiritual energy" or "atrological energy" or "energy emanating from mind" (I sometimes read about those, but have no idea what these are - simply because there are no definitions of these quantities).

Therefore, I am talking about the definition of energy in PHYSICS (where such definition exists (via work) - and is very clear and simple). Because I do research in physics (and teach it too), I have tons of textbooks, encyclopedias and technical literature about various fields of physiscs. I however, do not have much of popular literature (mainly because it is extremely unreliable on terms, definitions and conclusions).

Now, words without definitions are useless, right? There is no way of using say, term "fag" without first clearly explaining what exactly this particular combination of symbols stands for. Obviousely that without a definition different persons may assume different subjects/objects/phenomena abbreviated by the term "fag". Even worse, they may waste precious time and paper (or hard drive space) over and over arguing about properties or actions or the very existence of fag(s) without even realising that each means DIFFERENT animal than someone else - just due to lack of definition.

Enormousdude 22:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Book Of Mormon Article Edits

Enormousdude,

I feel like you're adding a lot of fluff into the Book of Mormon article by writing {according to the Book of Mormon} and other hedging words. It's clear, I believe from the article that everything stated there is the history as recorded in the Book of Mormon. I don't think it's really necessary to add to the article just to make 150% sure that everyone knows that it's only according to the Book of Mormon. I think it would be better to preface the whole article with some comment to that effect, because adding a note every single time is just taking up space that really doesn't need to be. Bo-Lingua 20:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I agree with that provided that Book of Mormon article abides by NPOV policy. Currently it does not - it reads as if Book of Mormon is mostly correct with minor deviations from actuality. But NPOV is compliance with truth and facts, right? Thus, it should be somehow shown that extraordinary claims of Book of Mormon (about large and very advanced ancient jewish civilizations in Americas) should be correctly balanced by facts. Otherwise casual/uneducated reader (who is not familiar with archeology and other facts about the Book) may find Book of Mormon historically more or less correct (which it is not even close to).

If this article can clearly state that the Book of Mormon is not a word of God nor it is authentic record of ancient people (it actually claims to be both), so a reader will not be mislead - then that would be balanced NPOV.

Can this be done?

Enormousdude 21:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Um, hate to intrude, but that would not be NPOV. That would be taking the POV that Mormonism is incorrect. It would be NPOV to state that scientists and historians disagree with the book of Mormon, but stating that it's not the Word of God is extrememly POV. NickelShoe (Talk) 22:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Enormousdude, can we discuss some of your recent edits over on Archaeology and the Book of Mormon. Please don't do a blanket revert without some discussion - you've reintroduced some bad spelling, grammer, superfluous information and general errors that had been corrected as well as remove additions by other knowledgable editors. My main issue is the misrepresentation of the Jaredite civilization. The final battle b/n Shiz and Coriantumr was around Cumorah/Ramah, but the final Jaredite war spanned years, was not fought entirely around Cumorah, and the two million deaths occurred during the entire, multi-year, multi-location war - not just the final battle (in fact the death count was noted before the final battle). Also, I don't recall the BoM ever saying the Jaredites were the first to inhabit the land, but maybe I missed the reference - care to share where you get this from? Those are my main concerns - I have a few others, but let's start with these more objective ones. --FyzixFighter 15:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV on Creationism

Hi, I agree with some of your edits on Creationism but they are highly WP:NPOV. Please try to keep edits within guidelines. Thanks, JoshuaZ 21:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean? That scientific POV is biased? I don't understand, please elaborate. Enormousdude 21:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, essentially yes, please see in WP:NPOV the guidelines for dealing with pseudoscience. Second, one of your other edits- is false and anyways very much POV. JoshuaZ 04:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, am I understanding your statement (about NPOV) correctly - that scientific POV is considered BIASED POV? Can you elaborate here in depth - I do not understand this? I think, I may have some language /cultural barrier here, can you explain in details exactly how scientific POV is biased?

Sincerely, Enormousdude 21:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It is a point of view in so far as there are people who disagree with it. That does not mean we need to give them undue weight. To quote from the NPOV page "The task before us is not to describe disputes as though, for example, pseudoscience were on a par with science; rather, the task is to represent the majority (scientific) view as the majority view and the minority (sometimes pseudoscientific) view as the minority view; and, moreover, to explain how scientists have received pseudoscientific theories. This is all in the purview of the task of describing a dispute fairly." JoshuaZ 21:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, scientific view is actually a view of a tiny MINORITY (scientists represent far less than 1% of Earth population). And it always was the view of just very small minority group.

Enormousdude 22:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Truth article

Hi. I had to revert that last one. This introduction was cautiously consensused by a number of long-participating editors. The current version states it accurately, that although definitions typically provide some reference to fact, it is not agreed what that reference is. The article then proceeds to give the major theories and what they have to say about the issues...Kenosis 23:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC) Incidentally, I appreciated your recent edits to the Theory aritcle...Kenosis 23:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

How are you going then to answer the questions in the introduction (stated to be important questions) without definition of the truth?

Enormousdude 23:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

As I see it, the problem is that your edit made Misplaced Pages take a side in the debate, saying what the answers are instead of presenting the debate as it is. NickelShoe (Talk) 04:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

No, you did not understand my question yet (or I misexpressed it). My question is as follows: How exactly are you going to answer questions abouth truth without knowing what you are talking about (truth)? About what exactly are you going to talk (asking questions, for example)? By other words, when you ask a question about something undefined (say, about truth) - then about WHAT are you asking the question?

Enormousdude 21:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Joseph Smith, Jr.

I noted your two recent additions to this article and have reverted back to the previous version. The topics you are apparently interested in, such as plural marriage/polygamy and Smith's death, have been broken out into more distinct article to reduce the size of the central article on Smith. Also, some of the perspectives/POV you have added have been discussed and sometimes refined on the talk pages of this and associated articles. I would encourage you to read the archives and talk pages on those topics and perhaps look over the LDS project page - Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. These might tell you the best location for opinions and edits. Best wishes. WBardwin 01:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

This is not POV, these are just facts. Deleting facts lowers Misplaced Pages standards which are in dire need of improvements. Please don't delete facts any more.

Enormousdude 01:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

On a related note, please use more care in your revisions to Word of Wisdom. Linking to an anti-Mormon reference which is not taken seriously as a scholarly source does not meet the guidelines set at WP:RS, and many of your changes, such as mispelling "pentecostal" and incorrect interpretation that the Word of Wisdom bans grains (it encourages their use) are careless errors which would be easily corrected if you consulted a dictionary or read over the Word of Wisdom's original text carefully. You've stated on your user page that you " ignorance. Some make bold statements about what they personally don't know - to only prove themselves wrong when they just open a textbook or learn facts." That's a good goal, it would help the article greatly if you would adhere to it as well. Tijuana Brass 03:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Please, take a minute to read the cited source - it is Joseph Smith OWN diary.

Enormousdude 03:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, WofW actually encourages to drink wine (of own make). Why don't you read it?

Enormousdude 03:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Sigh... you know, there's a reason that you've been reverted so much lately. Please stop to think over what other people are telling you. Tijuana Brass 03:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I took a quick look at the edit wars going on at Word of Wisdom. I can sympathise that you think people are being too quick to revert your edits, and that it is easy to take this personally because you probably spent a lot of time on the writing. However, you have to consider all of the time that went into the article before you came along. These are controvercial topics and the major edits you are doing should probably be discussed on the talk page and agreed upon before implementing. Your sources are also controvercial, so it would be good to discuss them also. This way is slower and can be sometimes frustrating, but it will save you the pain of getting into edit wars. So, pick out a few of the points that are most important to you, drop a message/presentation on the talk page and then solicit comments. If your changes are quality, others will probably agree. uriah923 05:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Liahona

I've been reading this Russian's talk page and he says that in his religion, a moral compass is like a device called the Liahona. I saw that you edited this article, so I thought I would ask. Is the Russian right? Here's a link to his talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Kaspersky_Trust

It's at the very bottom.

Yes, "moral compass" and more accurately "moral orientals" (common russian expression) are a set of personal rules of behavior one does not want to break. He was speaking of those. His american friends, however, refer to different subject (actually to object) - Liahona. Liahona according to Book of Mormon is a brass ball-like device with spindels. God gave this device to Nephi (in ~6 century BC) to show the direction to promised land (America). The device accompanied Nephite family all their jorney from Jerusalem to American continent and indeed not only showed right direction along their jorney but also from time to time displayed God's messages.

Enormousdude 18:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Mathematically entangled

I have listed your newly created page, Mathematically entangled, as an Article for Deletion on the grounds that I think you made that definition up. Could you please add a citation, or visit the discussion page and justify your definition. Nonsuch 18:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

If you can find a citation for mathematical quantities mutually related via definition in such a way that they are inverse transforms of each other (like energy and time, position and momentum, frequency and time, angular momentum and angular position, etc) - I would appreciate reference in Misplaced Pages to that particular phenomenon. Feel free to redirect my references to that article then. This would help to clarify many other definitions - of uncertainty principle, of virtual particles, of spontaneous emission, and explanation of origin of fundamental forces, of Casimir effect, pair creation, etc

Enormousdude 19:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Nuclear warfare

Привет! I reverted your recent addition to nuclear warfare. Я думаю, что я должен напишу вам почему.

First, it makes some suspicious claims and gives no source. For example, you wrote that the British "did not know" that the Soviets could hit European targets with their missiles. I find this unlikely, and it does not contradict the sentence that it follows anyway (which simply says that British bombers could reach the USSR before US bombers would, which seems obvious). You also say that the Soviets had the capacity for 50MT missile warheads. This is false. They built one 50MT bomb as a show device but it was far too big for a missile -- it was almost too big for a bomber. And in any case the sentence again does not contradict the one before it: just because Russia could inflict huge numbers of deaths upon Europe does not negate anything which had been written previously, and in fact is perfectly in line with the British reasoning regarding an independent deterrent (Europe would certain be the first to go in any nuclear confrontation with the USSR, and so did not want to rely on the Americans an ocean away to be their umbrella).

Anyway, I just thought you should know why I reverted it, I hope it is sensible to you. And thank you for putting up with my primitive Russia above. ;-) --Fastfission 19:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

This is icorrect. The soviets built big ICBMs namely to accomodate powerful bombs - look up the capacity of first ICBMs - 5 tons (!). Also, you are incorrect about 50 MT bomb. It was deliberately filled half with dummy explosive - to reduce yeild from planned 100 MT. Yet, it produced 57 MT yeild.

The bomb in question- the Tsar Bomba was much too large to be carried by an ICBM. JoshuaZ 23:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Please cite sources

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Exchange interaction, but we regretfully cannot accept original research. Please find and add a reliable citation to your recent edit so we can verify your work. Uncited information may be removed at any time. Thanks for your efforts, and happy editing! Can't sleep, clown will eat me 12:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Archiving talk page.

You may want to read WP:ARCHIVE. JoshuaZ 18:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Virtual photons

Dude, in some places you wrote that virtual photons are "lowest quantum mechanical energy state of photons". This is nonsense. The energy of a virtual photon can be anything from 0 to infinity. And they are not physical states at all.

In general, I like your contributions. However, please try not to remove whole blocks of text (unless you're sure that they are absolutely wrong): usually there are several different ways to present the subject, and we should keep them all, even if you really like your own approach.

Feel free to let me know if you need support in "physics vs. nonsense" controversies. Yevgeny Kats 20:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, when you quantize the energy of e/m field in vacuum (representing arbitrary e/m field by its plane wave Fourier components) you get the eigenvalues of Hamiltonian of those waves to be the sum of terms E_n=(1/2 + n)hf (over all values of wave vectors and polarization), right? Then you label the difference in neighboring energy states (n, n+1) to be the "energy of a radiation quanta" (="a photon" ), to treat e/m field in a simplified "ideal gas of many photons" model. But you immediately find that the ground state of e/m field (n=0, gas with zero photons) still has nonzero value of energy, E_o=hf/2 ("zero-point energy"). To avoid infinities we usually sweep this energy under the rug by introducing photon creation and annnihilation operators. But because only difference in energy is measurable quantity, this creation/annihilation of a photon is physically equivalent to transitions from and to the ground state of e/m field. So, if by a "states of a photon" we mean ALL energy states of e/m field (not only the exited states), then the lowest state represents what we label as a "virtual" state. By "virtual" - we mean that it is physically (but not mathematically) different from other states - simply because there are no more energy levels below it to detect it as the the transition to lower state.

So, while indeed the energy of the ground state of e/m field can be anything (depending on the frequency f of its component plane wave), it still is lowest energy state - thus is undetectable - and thus is labeled (may be subjectively) as a "virtual" state.

May be this is to some degree semantics discussion - what object to call "a photon"? I usually favor mathematical consistency first, and then only interpretation of it in terms of "observable" phenomena. What is your point of view?

What is "physics vs. nonsense controversies" ? I don't know much about it yet.

Sincerely, Enormousdude 21:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi! The term "virtual photon" usually refers to a photon appearing as a virtual particle that is described by an internal line in a Feynman diagram. The energy of such a particle can be anything from 0 to infinity. Virtual photons mediate the electromagentic interaction. What you call a "virtual state" or "virtual photons" is usually called "the vacuum" or the "ground state". Yevgeny Kats 22:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Your edits on Big Bang

Please do not add content without citing reliable sources, as you did to Big Bang. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Xiner (talk, email) 21:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Which exactly content do you mean - I have made tons of corrections all over wikipedia? Enormousdude 21:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

This edit in particular has no reference. It's great to have a physicist contribute to the article, but such changes must come with references, especially when you're stating so many things as fact. Xiner (talk, email) 21:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Are cosmology/astronomy textbooks or physics encyclopedias ok to cite? I usually don't cite them - simply because what are in textbooks and encyclopedias are already a common knowledge. Anyway, this paragraph you deleted actually is based on Misplaced Pages article baryogenesis cited right here in the same Big Bang article (and on old Sakharov work about origin of matter in Universe published about 40 years ago - which also was cited in the same Big Bang article).

Sincerely, Enormousdude 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Please note that Misplaced Pages is based on Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, not truthfulness. What cannot be verified by other editors can be deleted. If you work in the scientific field, you should know that citations are mandatory. I just don't want to see your work go to waste, is all. Xiner (talk, email) 22:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, I clamped down on unsourced materials from some religious editors just recently, so I have to be fair now. Xiner (talk, email) 22:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

So, you don't trust textbooks, encyclopedias and peer-rewiewed publications (which I usually use as sources for my many Misplaced Pages articles and edits and used for Big Bang article editing)? Also, you don't trust "baryogenesis" article of Misplaced Pages itself - which I also used information from in the deleted by you section of Big Bang article? I don't understand. Enormousdude 23:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Big Bang

Hi. I've reverted your edits to the article because we've been through this before. It's got no references and written in a decidedly non-WP:NPOV way. Please review WP:OR before you edit the article again. Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 20:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes

Hi there - contentious changes, such as those you are making to Physics, Fact, Truth amongst others are best taken to the relevant discussion pages. I see from this talk page, and from your edits tonight, that you aren't really discussing the changes you are making - that is not really helpful (especially on important lead sections of articles). I would suggest you get involved in discussion the issues with other editors, before changes are made to the lead sections of some pretty fundamental articles. Thanks, SFC9394 00:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I am always ready for explanations (which actually are already there - in various textbooks and serious encyclopedias from which I get most info) - just ask a concrete question.

Sincerely, Enormousdude 00:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Special relativity

You keep placing into special relativity

It is obvious that second postulate is redundant because it follows from the first one (indeed, if laws of electromagnetism are the same in all inertial frames, then the speed of light must be the same in all inertial reference frames too).

That no second postulate is needed is hardly true. Instead, you are explicitly saying that the laws of electromagnetism are the same in all inretial frames of reference, and this is something that is not true in Newtonian physics. So your "second postulate" involves electromanetism as a whole, from which you would derive the constancy of c and from there be able to derive the Lorentz transformations. IMO, it is more efficient to use the constancy of c as the second postulate and demonstrate that EM is Lorentz invarient afterwards. --EMS | Talk 18:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite follow what do you mean - if laws of e/m are the same in all inertial reference frames, then the speed of light must be the same too (because it follows from wave equation which follows from Maxwell equations). Also, don't forget that c^2 is the Coulomb constant (multiplied by 10^7).

How more obvious can be that including e/m laws in first postulate automaticly makes c the same in all inertial frames - and thus second postulate to be redundant?

Sincerely, Enormousdude 21:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The fact the the current standards of time and distance assume the correctness of SR does not make SR "correct by definition", and your edits to that effect are most unwelcome because of that. Those definitions are evidence to the extent to which relativity is now an accepted theory, but the evidence of its outright correctness lies in its consistency with observation, and need not be sought elsewhere. --EMS | Talk 20:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

It does. The fact that someone does not like my edit does not mean that the edit is incorrect. Usually it is vice versa - it takes for people to learn textbooks to understand that my edits are almost always correct - so it is not my fault that some Wiki editors don't like my comments or edits (just because they are ignorant in the subject they edit).

Back to the subject (SR). Look up introductory chapter in any physics text - it starts with the definition of distance (meter)and time (second). Time interval (second) is defined dimensionless - as so many oscillations of hyperfine transition in Cs-133 atom (to be more accurate - exactly 9 192 631 770 periods). But not so for space interval (meter) - it is defined via the speed of light - the distance traveled by light in vacuum in exactly 1/299 792 458 second (or 30.66331899 periods of oscillations of Cs atom). Thus, speed of light becomes constant (299 792 458 m/s - exact) simply by definition of length - which we use each time we measure distances in space. So, as long as we use meter as defined, SR is absolutely correct simply by definition.

Of course, you may use your own proprietary meter stick (or time interval) to measure things - but that has nothing to do with accepted standards and accepted measurements anymore. And of course, your measurements will then disagree with the rest of the world's measurements.

Sincerely, Enormousdude 21:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The point is more philosophical than practical. The definition is accepting the correctness of special relativity, not defining it. The correctness of SR itself has nothing to do with the definition. The laws of nature are as they are, and no action on our part can change them. SR did not become correct when the meter was redefined, but instead had always been correct. --EMS | Talk 21:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The claim that special relativity is true by definition (and, thus, not a scientific theory) is a very strong claim, which needs to be attributed to reliable sources (like standard text books) in order to be acceptable in Misplaced Pages. I saw that your claim has been reverted by several editors on special relativity. Please do not add it against the consensus without an explanation on the talk page, preferably mentioning some references. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It is not a claim whatsoever. You misunderstood. It is just a definition (of a meter) which fixes speed of light. That is how we (scientists) define and measure distance. Read an introductory chapter in any physics textbook. I am very surprised that "editors" of this page do not know basic definitions of basic physics quantities. How can someone edit what he does not know? Sincerely, Enormousdude 16:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

This definition of distance is a consequence of special relativity. You are using it to alter the definition of special relativity. The reason why this is a circular argument has been explained to you by multiple editors. Please do not make edits to special relativity against consensus. Instead, present your arguments on the talk page and attempt to establish consensus for your changes before making them. --Christopher Thomas 17:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Not true. You don't understand how physics works. We, physicists, use clear definitions (same as mathematicians do). Definitions are very important, and shall be clearly understood before one try to judge their logical consequences. Let's open introductory chapter into any physics textbook and read definitions of time and space intervals (I hope you can fetch one in library or somewhere around). Meter is defined as the distance light travels in 1/299792458 second. Plain and clear. Speed of light is therefore fixed BY this very DEFINITION (of length being rigidly coupled with the definition of time interval) - NOT by some EXPERIMENT(S). Any attempt to measure speed of light using this conventional definition of length will return exactly 1 m/(1/299792458 sec)= 299792458 m/sec. There is nothing circular here. Sincerely, Enormousdude 18:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

ED, from looking briefly at this discussion, I think there may be some confusion between the theoretical aspects and the operational definitions. From the theoretical standpoint, one must establish that space has the structure of the Lorentz metric---Einstein got there by postulating the constancy of the speed of light along with invariance of inertial frames. Operationally, one defines the time interval because it's easy to do so precisely, then because the speed of light is also easy to measure precisely, one defines the meter (hard to measure precisely) in terms of the second and the speed of light. That operational definition of the meter is well-motivated by knowledge of special relativity, but it's logically unrelated---dimensions are the only relevant issue. Hope this helps. Gnixon 18:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

SR edits

Hi, Enormousdude. I've replied to your comment on my talk page. Sorry for any misunderstandings. Gnixon 17:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

But for the record: Gnixon also "edits" the Evolution article without any real background in the field, either. At least two of us over there are frustrated about this too. He wastes a tremendous amount of everyone's time leading lengthy discussions on nothing at all, or else trying to discuss content in ways that show he barely understands the subjects better than a college undergraduate might. He has also expressed the opinion that "experts shouldn't expect to have their holy authority worshipped at every turn", so please watch out for that, if it comes your way. Kind regards, TxMCJ 01:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

For the record, TxMCJ (talk • contribs) appears to be a single-purpose account dedicated to editing Evolution (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), active since 27 March 2007 only (barring the first 7 edits out of 417). --Christopher Thomas 02:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)