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Revision as of 20:00, 16 July 2024

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Requested move 10 July 2024

The request to rename this article to Roman Palestine has been carried out. If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Roman Palestine (period) → Roman Palestine – This page was originally created over the redirect that currently sits at the base name, but this move was contested, so I have recreated the page with a disambiguated title. Roman Palestine is a period term for the portion of the history of Palestine characterized by Roman rule, from the time of the vassalage of the region after the Romans intervened in local politics until the Arab conquest. There are some slight variations to this, with the Britannica entry setting the start date as the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but as other sources show , 63 BC to 70 AD can also be characterized as "Early Roman Palestine". From the literature both on page and out there and discoverable, and not least the Britannica entry, it seems pretty clear that the period is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the term. While the current redirect to Syria Palaestina strikes upon perhaps the most obvious constituent subdivision of the Roman period, there was nothing less Roman about the earlier Roman Judaea or the period of local dynastic vassalage still prior to this, or the Byzantine-era Diocese of the East period afterwards. On the contrary, it would be highly unusual not to consider the earlier periods also part of the Roman Palestine period (and to laser focus in on Syria Palaestina). Works such as Jesus and the Politics of Roman Palestine simply make no sense if you exclude Roman Judaea from the equation. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support as an obviously better name than the current one. P Aculeius (talk) 12:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Syria Palaestina was a good stopgap but better to have an article covering the whole Roman period, rather than just a part.Selfstudier (talk) 14:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm against this. This is obviously a time period and it should be explicetly clear. EliasAntonakos (talk) 07:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Looking at your edit history, 93 edits total starting in June, it seems that you have not really a clear idea about this subject at all, inclusive edit warring your opinion that Roman Palestine is the same thing as Syria Palaestina, which it clearly is not. Selfstudier (talk) 08:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

That's not the purpose of parenthetical disambiguation. If it's the primary topic, it should be at the base name. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 13:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose There are a number of issues with this page, as well as problematic arguments in the suggested title-change above. First of all, see list of reliable sources, there is no consensus about Britannica being a reliable source. Second of all the term "Roman Palestine" is misleading, unless it remains clear that you are referring to a period, during which the Romans ruled Palestine, seeing as there was never a region which could be called Roman Palestine until the second century CE, and even then, the official name was Syria-Palaestina. As for the argument that there was nothing less Roman about the periods of Roman Judea or the Diocese of the East, it is unclear how you define "Roman". Judea, Syria-Palaestina and the Diocese of the East are clearly differentiated by different factors, whether they reflect ancient policies, politics, ideologies or identities, and lumping them all together as "Roman" is misleading and insensitive to the historical changes of the region, even if they are to be addressed in the body of the article. Beyond all this, I have not managed to find any consensus among the scholars who use the term Roman Palestine regarding the time period that it defines (many, possibly most, simply use it for the general period of Syria-Palaestina), and as such, to define an ambiguous term such as Roman Palestine, and use it as a point of departure for an entire article with the chronological boundaries it suggests would be Independent Research and does not fit Misplaced Pages guidelines. At the very least Roman Palestine should be a disambiguation page. Uppagus (talk) 20:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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