| Revision as of 13:38, 28 July 2024 editLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,305,072 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:India/Archive 58) (bot← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:31, 4 August 2024 edit undo103.216.144.105 (talk) →Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2024: new sectionTags: Reverted Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit → | ||
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| **], Yea, I'll give it a go, if possible. Happy editing.<span id="The_Herald:1721394453181:TalkFTTCLNIndia" class="FTTCmt"> — ] (]) 13:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)</span> | **], Yea, I'll give it a go, if possible. Happy editing.<span id="The_Herald:1721394453181:TalkFTTCLNIndia" class="FTTCmt"> — ] (]) 13:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)</span> | ||
| **:Thank you. Look forward. ]] 13:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC) | **:Thank you. Look forward. ]] 13:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC) | ||
| == Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2024 == | |||
| {{edit extended-protected|India|answered=no}} | |||
| ] (]) 10:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
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Should WP:INDICSCRIPT apply here
I was wondering if WP:INDICSCRIPT should apply to this article. If I am not wrong, the decision to not use the scripts were made because it was unclear which script was actually used / should be used in a particular case and whether the spelling in the Indic script is correct was difficult to verify. However this doesn't appear to be an issue here as the spelling and the script are official and well-known. Thoughts? @Fowler&fowler, @Flemmish Nietzsche, @RegentsPark. PadFoot (talk) 13:37, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well of course it applies to this article, but if it didn't what changes are you proposing? It is already stated in a comment in the infobox that translations and transliterations do not fall under WP:INDICSCRIPT; the main reason for INDICSCRIPT is due to the ambiguity over which translations in which Indic languages should be included in the various India-related articles. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 19:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Flemmish Nietzsche, had almost forgotten about this discussion, but I had meant to say that this ambiguity doesn't exist here, as we do know the official language and official script. So, should it apply to this article and should we be excluding the name in Devanagari script? PadFoot (talk) 11:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- PadFoot2002, search the talkpage archives for the many proposals to add the country's name in one or more of the 22 scheduled languages. IIRC the endless and frivolous discussions on this topic at this article were part of the impetus for adopting WP:INDICSCRIPT in the first place. Don't see any reason to revive that mess by entertaining exceptions to INDICSCRIPT, which has saved so much valuable editorial time. Abecedare (talk) 13:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Abecedare, alright, there's no need for it here then. PadFoot (talk) 15:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- PadFoot2002, search the talkpage archives for the many proposals to add the country's name in one or more of the 22 scheduled languages. IIRC the endless and frivolous discussions on this topic at this article were part of the impetus for adopting WP:INDICSCRIPT in the first place. Don't see any reason to revive that mess by entertaining exceptions to INDICSCRIPT, which has saved so much valuable editorial time. Abecedare (talk) 13:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Flemmish Nietzsche, had almost forgotten about this discussion, but I had meant to say that this ambiguity doesn't exist here, as we do know the official language and official script. So, should it apply to this article and should we be excluding the name in Devanagari script? PadFoot (talk) 11:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 July 2024
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Change the Spelling of Bhārata Gaṇarājya to Bhārat Gaṇarājya Depotadore (talk) 14:44, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 15:10, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Done I have done so as the edit which added back the schwa was only yesterday and was not discussed here; this does not mean either one is "correct", just that the "Bharat" spelling is what has been standard usage in this article. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 July 2024
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Change opening sentence to "India, also called Bharat, officially the Republic of India (ISO: Bhārat Gaṇarājya), ...". The country has two official short names as per Article 1 of the Constitution of India, see Names for India source. 117.230.84.90 (talk) 09:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done This is the English language Misplaced Pages. For example, at Germany, we don't say Germany, also called Deutschland, officially the Federal Republic of Germany.... It is however mentioned in the infobox - as it is on this article as well. Black Kite (talk) 11:29, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Black Kite: Then why a note is not added in this article as it is on Germany and Japan?--117.230.88.210 (talk) 07:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: I'm not sure what you mean; the Germany article doesn't list the other official name, and neither does Japan, which doesn't say something like "Japan, also called Nihon,..." ''']''' (talk • contribs) 07:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Include the names of India in all languages as prescribed in the Eighth Schedule to the Constitution of India
like as is the case with European Union, or South Africa, this is a solution that will hopefully not piss anyone off, whilst enabling the use of indic scripts again KabirDH (talk) 21:06, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- And why should we do this? We have INDICSCRIPTS and no Indic languages in the article for a reason; you'd have to make a very strong case for why we should include these languages, as the past arguments over the translations in different languages are not just about which languages to include, but also the "correct" translation and other issues. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- past disagreements have been because people were edit warring over which language to use...that's why WP:NOINDICSCRIPTS even exists. it's because people were disagreeing in 2012 about what language to use in a page for a multiethnic Indian actor (see Rajnikanth)
- But that was 12 years ago and technology has come far, this is an appropriate solution, just like the EU and South Africa pages I have linked.
- why should it be done? well, it's done for every other community page, and on top of that we have a solution now
- i don't see a problem with it at all KabirDH (talk) 06:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- The only official languages of the Indian Union, as has been discussed in uncountable discussions in the talk archives, are Hindi and English. Please note that the Scheduled languages are "recognised languages", not "official languages". PadFoot (talk) 11:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- yes, so why don't we do that instead? KabirDH (talk) 12:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- The only official languages of the Indian Union, as has been discussed in uncountable discussions in the talk archives, are Hindi and English. Please note that the Scheduled languages are "recognised languages", not "official languages". PadFoot (talk) 11:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Newly introduced changes
@Flemmish Nietzsche and Fowler&fowler: Discuss here please. Let's not enter the 3RR territory. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 10:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've left a post on Flemish Nietzsche's use talk page. Those of us who normally maintain the page have been away for a couple of months. As you must know, editors here discuss even minor changes in the lead for weeks, indeed occasionally even months. Restoring this article to a last consensus version has been done before in the article. The article are majorly rewritten for Gandhi's 150th on 2 October 2019. (See the talk page discussion of the months preceding that date for a comparison with the casual discussions of the last month.) It had an FAR thereafter. It is Misplaced Pages's oldest country FA, soon to be 20 years old. I'm strapped for time. Pinging @RegentsPark, Abecedare, SpacemanSpiff, Vanamonde93, Chipmunkdavis, Kautilya3, and Joshua Jonathan: Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- PS No one is more aware of @Flemmish Nietzsche:'s excellent work here than I. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware why you are restoring to a consensus version, as I cite the same reasons when I have made reverts here in the past; however, as I have said I don't think mass-reverting many good edits is always necessary, as if someone doesn't work back in those good edits, the page quickly becomes out of date, which is what happened the last time you restored to a consensus version, ignoring many (now-archived) discussions where there was, in contrast to the Sanskrit edit discussion above, a proper discussion and consensus to make changes to avoid the page becoming out of date. The reason I reverted your recent edit so quickly was because I wrongly assumed it was a restoration to a much earlier version, (as in, before my and other's edits which updated the page) and any good minor edits since then have been worked back in to the article. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 11:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps in the future if substantial edits in India are being proposed in a discussion here, could some of us (e.g. the people I have pinged above) be pinged, even use-talk-page-messaged? Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for resolving this amiably F&f and Flemmish Nietzsche! Just wanted to drop a quick note since the article is being reverted to (roughly) the June 20 version that I last edited, that that version itself may need a review and should not be taken to be the version preferred or attested by me. Frankly, as I believe has been discussed previously, the article could use a proper reread to check for drift and need for updates if/when someone has the time to start the process. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 12:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- The article already received two WP:FARGIVEN and the (larger FA) community peer reviewed version is over 13 years old. Yes, we have discussions and consensus establishments over time, but a full fledged review is very imminent. I'd like to propose an article review soon which can analyse the article in depth and prevent it from the overhanging FAR. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 12:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure there is any overhanging FAR.
- Two years ago, or thereabouts, when a notice for improvements (to head off an FAR) was given on the talk page, SandyGeorgia said that only a few things needed fixing, and we fixed them. Two paragraphs, climate change and energy, were added by two editors. Around that time an Education section was added by user:Rjensen and a Visual Arts section by user:Johnbod. Earlier, in preparation for the article's second TFA on October 2, 2019, I had rewritten the lead, and added two new sections: Cuisine and Clothing. You are probably looking at the talk page milestones not at the discussions. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Article reviews are useless. Who will bell the cat? What is their expertise? Are they MOS-mavens or subject experts? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- With the caveat that I haven't read the article in a long time, I believe that most of it (lede, history, biodiversity, arts) etc should be fine and only need to be checked for changes since the last "stable" version. A couple of sections (eg, Economy, and Politics) may need periodic updates though, while keeping WP:RECENTISM in mind. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 13:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Abecedare. Very well summarized and explained. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- In my experience piecemeal improvements are usually better than grand reviews. Speaking of piecemeal, there are some changes that are probably needed:
- The first ten years of Modi's rule are now widely documented in the scholarly literature: economic growth, infra-structure development, but also back-sliding democracy, crony-capitalism, more assertive religious nationalism, increased economic inequality and rising unemployment. They deserve a distilled mention in the lead perhaps.
- The excess mortality in India during COVID-19, by far the world's highest (according to the WHO, Lancet, Economist, ...), probably needs a mention, though not necessarily in the lead.
- I think suggestions for changes, supported by scholarly sources (in order to meet WP:RS) and by tertiary sources (for due weight; see WP:TERTIARY) are usually better. As you will see from past discussions, even changing a sentence fragment can sometimes take weeks on this page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:38, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello @The Herald: Rather than an article review, why don't you review one of the sections user:Abecedare has referred to above, or even a subsection. For example: India#Politics. Would you like to review it? It would be really helpful. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fowler&fowler, Yea, I'll give it a go, if possible. Happy editing. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. Look forward. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fowler&fowler, Yea, I'll give it a go, if possible. Happy editing. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2024
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