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Personal life - removing inaccurate information/depression

I've had a bunch of edits rolled back and need some guidance, please.

For example - the 2nd para of "personal life" says he has spoken of depression and this is not true and the citation quoted only uses the words "mental health". He has discussed this a lot (in podcasts) and specifically says that Depression is a medical issue that is treated with pharmaceuticals and that he was just sad. Basically he's said many times that people conflate Sadness with Depression and shouldn't. So that para is completely the wrong way around. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 15:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Here's a source saying he had 'bouts of depression': https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/74912824/jimmy-carr-talks-religion-war-and-ribald-jokes-before-his-nz-tour

He talks more about his mental health here and here and here. The previous sentence, which read: "Carr has spoken of the depression he experienced in his 20s, while working in marketing, and credits his decision to pursue a comedy career in helping him to cope with depression", was removed here Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, good morning. The thing i was trying to be more clear about is, more recently (past couple of years) he's talked about the epidemic of male suicide and depression (and supported charities) and tried to be clearer about the distinction between sadness (which is how he felt when he left his job) and depression. Also, the original citation used only said "mental health" - so, at the very least, a diff citation was needed (preferably a more recent one).

BTW - That first link (religion, war and ribald jokes) has no mention of "bouts of depression" in it? I may not be awake yet - but have read it 3 times. :o))

Podcast chats are where he's been clearest and although he's been a teeny bit fast and loose with the terms at times (saying he can white knuckle through it) he mostly is very clear that depression is a long term disease that requires medication - and he takes nothing for it. Even after the tax thing (when he thought he'd lost everything) - his Dr gave him meds and he never took them.

His Diary of a CEO pod may be a good one as it's in chapters and has one on mental health (should only take you 5 mins to listen). I'm always happier to listening to someone explain themselves, rather than the interpretation of a journo. I think when you stagger off a long-haul flight and into an interview even the best of us may fluff a line or two.

I suppose where I'm coming from, too, is that I had a depressed parent (lifelong meds) and I also like to keep my language "clean" about the difference between the real "black dog" - and the ups and downs of coping with deaths and the problems of life. My situation probably means I honed in on those mentions more.

Does that make sense? Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 06:24, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I was just offering some sources, thanks. Janet Street-Porter, in that 2017 The Independent piece, agrees with him that "Not everyone who claims to be suffering from depression actually is – some of us are just sad", despite his annoying comments BBC Radio 4's Desert Island Discs. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

The problem i often see is I listen to a podcast (all kinds of people) and it gets into the news, for some reason, and a teeny, subtle change of a word completely changes the context. Usually to make it more clickbait-y.

And every time there is a joke controversy (usually Carr or Gervais or Chappelle) the press declare "fans were outraged" - when usually it's 3 people on X who don't like comedy and weren't at the show anyway. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 15:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Podcast issues aside, do you think something needs to be added about Carr's mental health/ depression/ feelings of sadness? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

If you think it's a good idea I could cobble something together. Might be worth waiting a couple of weeks as Triggernometry said last week that they had recorded a new pod (and it's not been released yet) and another podcaster tweeted how excited he was to be "going down to London" for a record. I'm guessing that they will poss come out when the new Netflix Special drops. Or the 2 he's already done on Neal Brennan's Blocks were very interesting, talking about insecurity about looks/weight and their childhoods. Neal has had real depression and tried all kinds of meds. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

By all means go ahead, although I think there may already be enough material in sources other than his podcasts. Not sure how Neal Brennan fits in. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry - missed this - bit busy with work. NB is a good friend of JC and has been on meds for 20+ years. There is a scary clip of him having ECT treatment. He's now (finally) getting relief from ayahuasca, apparently. I just thought that might be a good one to use as they get the topic in some depth (will have to re-watch it sometime). Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 08:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

... "a scary clip of him having ECT treatment"? Really? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah - it's in one of the Blocks podcasts he did with JC. You know someone has bad depression when they are desperate enough to try that. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:04, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

That sounds quite significant. This must have been mentioned by WP:RS elsewhere? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry - i'm coming out of a migraine and not making much sense. Was I clear that I meant that it was Neal who had ECT? I'm so dopey i almost typed ECG earlier...should probably step away from the keyboard. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

No worries. Best discussed at Neal Brennan, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I've given it a go - what do you think? I started the citation link from the point where he started to discuss ayahuasca. As his Blocks podcast was not mentioned (it's a year old) I added that section first. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 14:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

He's not really on my watchlist, sorry. But will try and have a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Radio

I added the text below to the radio section and it was rejected. Can anyone tell me why, please?

Carr has appeared on BBC Radio 4's Museum of Curiosity a total of 7 times, since 2011. He was the Museum Curator (in his 5 appearances in 2012) and a guest on the 2018 Annual Stock Take Christmas special, alongside Lee Mack, Jo Brand and Sally Philips. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Did you have any sources for all those claims? BBC episodes are usually easy to source. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I might have used https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/museum_curiosity/episodes/ because it's all gathered in one place. On the BBC site there are 72 episodes and so referencing ONE person amongst them is tricky https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3wvk/episodes/player SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

His list might be better? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know. Don't mind either way. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

have added and linked to BCG as suggested SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Edinburgh

I’ve just added a new section (under Stand-up comedy) for Edinburgh – to summarise Carr’s appearances at the annual Festival. Really, really hoping that this passes muster and doesn’t get nuked – can anyone see any tweaks that are necessary, please?

I extracted this info from some broader research, on comedy festivals, that I’ve been doing for someone else’s project and have tried to convey how important this festival was to his career. And the room/venue sizes are mentioned to try and demonstrate how he moved up a gear each time he returned. Ditto the mention of TV shows – indicating audience growth.

And the 2007 mention of The Guardian attitude change was indicative of a wider backlash against big names. Some think only people like Sadowitz should be promoted – others acknowledge that a “name” at the EICC draws punters in, which is better for everyone. I suspect this debate played a part in 2014 being his last attendance, but couldn’t find a specific reference to it.

I know that, in the early years, many of our (now) big-name comedians drove up there together and have talked about the bonding process of chatting in the car / dossing down in each other’s rented flats, running around seeing shows and then eating takeaways. I just can’t find the interviews right now – but may add to the relevant people’s pages when I do (if it adds value). I’ve got a LOT of information.

I just called it “Edinburgh”, btw, because the TV festival is also mentioned in there.

Question about the 3 paragraph in the current Stand-up section – should I eventually move that down to a chronological spot within “Edinburgh”? I moved a paragraph once previously and the change was rejected.

Paragraph 5 – the final line is a repeat of my Edinburgh info (if it gets passed). Should it stay?

And also the 7 paragraph says that Rapier Wit “….tour opened on 20 August 2009 with nine shows at the Edinburgh Festival”. That citation 46 (which will probably renumber when I add my stuff)

1.     "Tour Dates". Ents24.com. Archived from the original on 4 January 2011. Retrieved 10 March 2011.

is now dead and the official Edinburgh programme said it was 8 shows. Shall I wait to see what you peeps say before altering/removing that?

Nervously waiting for approval…worse than being at school! SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 11:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

America

Trying to use search engines for research is very difficult lately as the algorithms push you towards what they THINK you are looking for, regardless of how many search operators etc. you use. Which means, while researching the Edinburgh information I had to use really broad search terms, only restricted by date filters.

Although an annoyance – it meant that I’ve collected a LOT of information on other un-related people, gigs and events. Much of which will probably now have to wait until the Winter for me to sort through (chores to do and all that).

Despite making so many trips Stateside (virtually once or twice a year) there are very few press reports. UK MSM are not interested (unless it’s a “cancel x person for a joke” story) and BCG / Chortle appear to be pretty much run on a shoe string and so rely on being fed stories. We don’t celebrate our UK comedy scene enough!!

The LA Comedy Store, for example, is legendary (to comedians and comedy fans) as the place that developed everyone from Richard Pryor to Robin Williams to Jim Carrey. As an Alumnus of the club (a rare honour, to be bestowed upon a Brit) Carr can turn up any time he’s in town and just perform. But finding an official record is tricky – so I’ve had to leave it a bit vague and have left many appearances out (not sure the Misplaced Pages guidelines would accept single tweets from punters).

Where I’ve felt it’s important to note an appearance I’ve used, for example, the X account of the official Comedy Store, so that it’s not just some random user who might have their account removed. Is that acceptable?

Although I would imagine some would think that listing too many TV shows is trying to turn this into IMDB – my perspective is that the American late-night shows give massive exposure and a Brit artist getting repeated invites to these shows is a huge career boost. There are many, many more shows he has appeared on – these are just the biggies.

I’ve highlighted Netflix a fair bit as he seems to be well regarded and “plays nicely” with other comedians – hence his collaborations. Again – there are many more that I couldn’t find citations for, where has worked with / supported other US stars.

The one thing that I think someone may “object” to is the section main title “America” then covering TV and stand up, which doesn’t fit the format of the paragraphs above.

A lot of work has gone into this so, if anyone is unhappy, can we please talk about it, rather than just nuke the lot…always nervous about doing a big update. And it’s heartbreaking when something gets removed without warning. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 13:17, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

SUFH 2023 _ Daily Mail Citation

Hello @Davidgerard

I would like to restore my citation (2023 SUFH – Daily Mail) and so am launching this discussion.

One of the things that I find frustrating about editing Misplaced Pages is how different people have such differing opinions (of how to apply the rules) and so, months after editing something, one person can decide that it doesn’t fit somehow and you are back at square 1 and having to dig out old notes.

I’m assuming you think the DM is an “unreliable tabloid” but in this instance it’s a properly reported story of a charity event, that occurred in a different country. With regard to this particular type of event – why would something be more legitimate if it was in the Grauniad? (or similar).

As it’s a British Comedian at a US event it didn’t get a lot of coverage and this was the BEST overview I could find. And when I say the best – it’s getting harder and harder to find stories that are not behind a paywall and, as more MSM websites struggle financially, this is only going to get worse. I always try and find something that everyone can read and that delivers all the facts.

With this event there is a link that I could use, from the Bob Woodruff Foundation, that says who was GOING to be there – but I thought a story, written after the event, that had proof and pictures was more appropriate.

Regardless of who is behind the URL – should accuracy and photographs not count for something? I get why there is an overall feeling that tabloids are to be avoided – but isn’t it a little knee jerk to just see “Daily Mail” and reject, without actually looking at the content?

Can we talk?        :o)) Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 06:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Talking to myself (I find I get more sense this way!)... I've put the DM link back in as, apart from photos on places like Getty images, the only other really visible information was the announcement on the Woodruff Foundation site (which I've also added).

As mentioned above - I have inserted both as the Woodruff link was only announcing the "intent" for him to host, whereas the DM story is confirmation that it really happened. I think having both completes the circle. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

If the only independent source for something happening is the Daily Mail, it is rather an indication that it isn't that significant, I'd have to suggest. And the Mail says very little about Carr anyway. Articles aren't supposed to document every gig a comedian does, for charity or otherwise. AndyTheGrump (talk) 10:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

You don't think it's significant that a UK comedian has been asked to host a US charity show, headed by Springsteen and televised? What would your yardstick be? Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 10:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

My yardstick is basically Misplaced Pages's, per WP:DUE. 'Significance' is determined by level of coverage in sources, not by our own personal opinions. And it seems rather unlikely that the DM would have covered this event if it wasn't for the involvement of Prince Harry. That's what their piece is about. Carr just gets mentioned in passing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 10:29, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Well it was covered by plenty of other outlets - but outside the UK. As I've mentioned before - I look for sources that the most people would be able to read. And you are the 1st person to call into question the inclusion of the actual event, rather than just the source citation. And the Woodruff site only mentioned Carr, had his picture first, and no mention of Harry - why not mention that? (playing Devil's Advocate right back at you).

From the perspective of "significance" - how many Brits do you know (apart from Gervais) who are asked to host US events? Or vice versa. It's really hard for comedians to make inroads on the opposite side of the world - which is what I meant by the yardstick, because you were suggesting that it was some run of the mill gig. My understanding is that SUFH is a big thing (as an event celebrating the military) - so it's not like it's just a bring and buy sale appearance.

The thing I struggle with most on here is everything is so entirely subjective and one person can end up being the arbiter of right/wrong. Would feel much more democratic if there were a voting system.

Time for some tennis...will chat with you later. :o) Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 12:52, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

It there are other sources, link them here, so we can discuss them. The Woodruff site isn't independent (and says very little about Carr anyway). As for your suggestion regarding votes, that isn't how Misplaced Pages works, and you aren't going to get long-established core policy changed by arguing about it on this talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Morning – apols for delay replying. First of all - I’ll retract my support for using that DM article as a citation (and avoid using them in the future). Happy to admit when I’m in the wrong and, having done some deep digging, it appears that the word “hosted” had crept into a couple of stories – of which the DM is the only one I can now retrieve.

I’ve made note of the help pages related to sources, for future.

My background is SEO and there have been some concerning things going on, since the introduction of AI. I use different browsers, search engines and VPN and it’s been so hard to relocate earlier finds that I’ve had to resort to dumping info into Word documents, for future reference.

Google updates this year, for example, at one point had me raising complaints with them for things like a search that told me there were 400 results and yet refused to show me more than 10. Year filters have gone completely haywire, search operators don’t seem to function as they did and the engines seem to be trying to anticipate AI telling us an answer, rather than showing links to all sites available.

On top of that many sites are begging for cash, cutting their output – or vanishing completely and taking their archive with them (example MTV news – 20 years gone in a flash).

These are no good for sources – but just to mention, in passing, that the other issue is that some sites are retrievable by search (via Carr’s name) – but then come up as “this event has passed” or a blanked page. Example – Lincoln Center. And also New York Comedy Festival. And The Guardian returns several links promising the details of his performance – none of which work. Muddies the waters a bit when searching.

In no particular order below are some of the links for the SUFH event, which he performed a spot for (does “attended” not refer to audience members?).

I read bio pages for other people on here and still think (you may disagree) that these events are important contextually. Americans that I speak to are incredibly appreciative of their military and, as the only Brit on the bill, he is appreciated – especially as a repeat supporter. But he’s never going to get the same column inches, in US stories, as Springsteen / Jon Stewart and so on.

For now – I’ll replace the DM citation with Business Wire (the Associated Press story is a bit messy) but am also removing the 2024 reference as that page has vanished.

2023: Woodruff Foundation     Pollstar     Deadline     Variety     Business Wire      800 Pound Gorilla Media     Getty Images     App.com (Asbury Park Press)    Billboard     Woodruff Foundation on YT     Good Sense Company      Independent UK     App.com (2 story)   David Clark Cause (info on here is more generic)    American Songwriter     Jambase   Ambassador Images     Forbes    Look To The Stars     Glix Agency (Hungary)    Associated Press News   Alamy (images)     Billboard (2 story)    Woodruff on Instagram     New Jersey Arts      Chortle     Jersey Evening Post    Daily Mail (2 story)    WBAL News Radio    

2018: ABC News    Forbes    Rolling Stone (before)    Rolling Stone (after)    Woodruff Foundation (recycling Rolling Stone) Globe Newswire     Variety     Madison Square Garden     Brooklyn Vegan     Alamy     WFRD (radio)    Good Morning America      Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 06:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

1 child or 2?

Hello

Anonymous accounts keep changing the panel on here to say "1 child" and then it goes back to 2...and now it's back to 1 again. It's DEF 2. See the first minute of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdswrDtMISc&t=11s and if you Google, around April time, there was a flurry of stories around the press "contacting his reps for comment" etc.

He's been talking about having had a 2nd child, in his gigs and podcasts, for ages and also in his Natural Born Killer special there was a routine around him talking to his son and daughter.

So 2 is the answer. :o)) Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

WP:RELIABLESOURCES. Seasider53 (talk) 10:01, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The YT video - where he says "kids". Are his own words not reliable enough? Or Natural Born Killer? I can't link to the latter as it's on Netflix.

He didn't talk about his 1st child for 18 months so has a history of keeping his private life private and only really confirmed it when he published his book.

Personally - I give up. But this panel keeps getting changed back and forth repeatedly, mainly by anon accounts, because everyone that goes to his gigs (or watches him in Videos) know he's got "kids". Give it a week or two and someone will try and put it back to 2 again. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 10:34, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

A comedy show is not a reliable source. Surely you can understand why? Seasider53 (talk) 10:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

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