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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is Bhārat Gaṇarājya not rendered in Devanagari script? A1: See this discussion (from 2012) and this discussion (from 2017), which are codified in WP:INDICSCRIPT. Q2: It's "Bengaluru", not "Bangalore"! A2: This article uses the name that is most commonly used by English-language reliable sources. See WP:COMMONNAME. Q3: Why was my content removed? A3: The India page adheres to summary style, sticking to core topics and skipping excess details. To update economy figures or other content, cite credible sources. See WP:V. Q4: Why aren't there sections on science and technology, education, media, tourism etc? A4: New sections require talk-page consensus. In archived discussions, it was decided to keep them out. Consider expanding their respective daughter articles, such as History of India, instead. See WP:WPC. Q5: Why was my image or external link removed? A5: To add or remove images and links, start a thread on this page first. See WP:FP?, WP:IMAGE, and WP:EL. Q6: The map is wrong! A6: The map shows the official (de jure) borders in undisputed territory and the de facto borders and all related claims where there's a dispute; it cannot exclusively present the official views of India, Pakistan, or China. See WP:NPOV. Q7: India is a superpower! A7: Consult the archives of this talk page for discussions of India's status as a superpower before adding any content that makes the suggestion. See WP:DUE. Q8: Delhi is a state! A8: To create an Indian state, the Parliament of India must pass a law to that effect—see Articles 2 through 4 of the Constitution of India, full text here. The Sixty-ninth Amendment, which was enacted in 1991, added Article 239AA to the constitution. It proclaimed the National Capital Territory of Delhi, gave it a legislative assembly, and accorded it special powers that most union territories lack. But Delhi was not made a state. Several crucial powers were retained by the central government, such as responsibility for law and order. Delhi also does not have a governor; instead, a lieutenant governor presides. Unlike Himachal Pradesh, which gained statehood in 1970, and Goa, which gained it in 1987, Delhi continues to be listed as a union territory by the First Schedule. Q9: Add Hindi as the national language/hockey as the national sport! A9: Hindi is the official language, not national language. There is no national language, but there are constitutionally recognized languages, commonly known as Schedule 8 languages. English also serves as a subsidiary official language until the universal use of Hindi is approved by the states and parliament. Field hockey is not the national sport as per this article "In RTI reply, Centre says India has no national game", Deccan Herald, August 2012.

This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING AN EDIT REQUEST ABOUT CHANGING THE COUNTRY NAME If you have come here to post that the country name should be changed from India to Bharat, please note that we use the commonly-used name (common name) to determine article names, even when a country changes its name. For an example, see Turkey, where the official name of the country (Türkiye) is noted in the lead sentence and the infobox, but the article remains at its common English name.

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This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 151 million views since December 2007. This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 12 times. The weeks in which this happened: August 11 to 17, 2013 October 20 to 26, 2013 October 27 to November 2, 2013 November 3 to 9, 2013 November 10 to 16, 2013 November 17 to 23, 2013 November 24 to 30, 2013 December 8 to 14, 2013 December 29, 2013 to January 4, 2014 January 5 to 11, 2014 January 12 to 18, 2014 January 19 to 25, 2014 There is a request, submitted by Sdkb, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages. The rationale behind the request is: "Featured article, and one that may have a higher-than-average proportion of readers who are English language learners". Section sizes Section size for India (47 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 51,711 51,711 Etymology 3,985 3,985 History 74 22,995 Ancient India 6,902 6,902 Medieval India 4,505 4,505 Early modern India 4,240 4,240 Modern India 7,274 7,274 Geography 13,861 13,861 Biodiversity 18,524 18,524 Politics and government 31 18,829 Politics 8,137 8,137 Government 8,370 8,370 Administrative divisions 1,345 2,291 States 564 564 Union territories 382 382 Foreign, economic, and strategic relations 16,147 16,147 Economy 13,522 30,237 Industries 7,087 7,087 Energy 2,183 2,183 Socio-economic challenges 7,445 7,445 Demographics, languages, and religion 13,902 13,902 Culture 2,853 56,533 Visual art 6,529 6,529 Architecture 2,006 2,006 Literature 2,377 2,377 Performing arts and media 11,017 11,017 Society 6,906 6,906 Education 3,976 3,976 Clothing 6,522 6,522 Cuisine 9,286 9,286 Sports and recreation 5,061 5,061 See also 115 115 Notes 222 222 References 35 35 Bibliography 19 54,244 Overview 2,292 2,292 Etymology 973 973 History 6,419 6,419 Geography 3,921 3,921 Biodiversity 2,326 2,326 Politics 5,880 5,880 Foreign relations and military 7,393 7,393 Economy 6,969 6,969 Demographics 4,798 4,798 Art 1,169 1,169 Culture 12,085 12,085 External links 2,435 2,435 Total 303,775 303,775

Unnecessary additions.

"By 400 BCE, stratification and exclusion by caste had emerged within Hinduism, and Buddhism and Jainism had arisen, proclaiming social orders unlinked to heredity." This is simply untrue and definitely not required. Jainism and Buddhism have forms of caste hierarchy. This is factually incorrect. Please change it. 117.230.128.76 (talk) 09:44, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

More clutter

@Flemmish Nietzsche I don't know why I need to discuss this, but I have to add national sweet and reptile, and elephant in mammals. Also, I want to move that infobox from government to somewhere more suitable, like culture. Can I do it?

Also, if I shouldn't write National XYZ: None instead of leaving it blank, then why is national language written like that? Pur 0 0 (talk) 04:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

No, you do not "have to" add anything beyond the national symbols listed and you didn't give a good reason why we need to add them; anything beyond the symbols listed is pure trivia and not very important to the top-level article of India, and should rather be listed in National symbols of India. "None" for language is fine as that's one of, if not the most important identifier of a country; national sport, lolipop, shoe, paper size or any other minor symbol does not need inclusion if there is none as it's not an essential item. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 05:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Then why have that table at all? National language can just be mentioned as none in the country infobox, the currency is already mentioned, and for the other things the Main Article: National symbols of India template can be used. As such, no other country has that infobox. Pur 0 0 (talk) 08:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree we don't need it, and I wasn't the one who added it; I'd be fine with removing it altogether, pinging to see what other editors think: @Abecedare @RegentsPark @Chipmunkdavis @Fowler&fowler @The Herald Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 10:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

It is decorative and should be removed. National symbols aren't discussed either in this article or in the main Government of India. CMD (talk) 11:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Add something about rape and street shitting instead. That's more representative of India, national symbols if you may. 176.1.142.74 (talk) 22:19, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

These are national symbols not government symbols.....wrong section and in my view sidebar link spam. Should be all integrated into prose.Moxy🍁 05:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

• My take: As nations are cultural constructions, their symbols are usually legislated symbols, which the symbolized—the Bengal tiger, the Ganges river dolphin, the Indian elephant or indeed the Ganges, are unaware of. Joya Chatterji, I think, has written about how the partition of India, for example, imposed new limits on the commonly nomadic wild animals, and gave them redefined national labels. As for what the recognition has brought them, witness the routine abuse of India's heritage animal, the elephant, in Hindu temples and tourist-rides in the palaces of former princely rulers, this despite good intentions. What good does the recognition of the Indian lotus as India's national flower, do to increasing tonnage of cultivated flowers tossed in the paths of vain politicians? The Indian lotus, is nevertheless, a wild species; but the Mango, domesticated from its origins in the wilds of Burma, Bangladesh, and northeastern India, is a much cultivated fruit, found also in Multan, Pakistan, Thailand, and the Philippines. As for other symbols, such as the flag, the state emblem, they too have become ossified, no longer reflecting the ideas they originally did. See for example: Lion_Capital_of_Ashoka#Legacy.
• I've watched the table lazily for the last dozen years. Not sure I want to do away with it outright, but perhaps reduce it a little, and then move it:

• Remove the mango, the rupee (it's name at least shared with many countries), the calendar (which is one of many of ancient or medieval India) and finally, the Ganges (the nomadic transboundary river) which is also Bangladesh's, not to mention Nepal's from which it gets most of its water. Integrate (in @Moxy:'s felicitious word) in appropriate places in main space or info box.
• Integrate the flag, the state emblem, the national songs into prose, perhaps in Culture section somewhere.
• Add a small table, "Some national symbols of biodiversity," tightly capped (as implied in @Flemmish Nietzsche:'s fine first reply), containing the Bengal tiger; the Ganges river dolphin; the Indian elephant, the distinct subspecies of the Asian; the Indian peafowl; Indian lotus; and the Banyan tree, if only they haven't already been duplicated in prose there. To these can be added the King cobra, India's national reptile. The table will be less "decorative" (as @Chipmunkdavis: has nicely put it) there. Thanks, @Pur 0 0: for bringing this up.

• I'm generally wary of these notions as they can come to reflect ownership, rather than stewardship, of other forms of life by human communities, great and small. I think Wikpedia should aspire to higher forms of knowledge. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC) Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

  Not sure at all about the above ...but a modern format FA article like at Canada#Symbols uses prose. Moxy🍁 00:27, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

  The symbols here are only the official ones of the Republic of India, those legislated after 1950, not cultural symbols and motifs of Indian civilization. Unlike Canada, which is a relatively young country, India is a tired old civilization, a veritable cultural subcontinent, whose symbols can't be easily summarized, some going back 5,000 years. See for example Indus Valley Civilisation#Seals for a microcosm. If you next examine the third paragraph of India#Biodiversity, i.e. the one beginning, "Among the subcontinent's ...." you will see a Canada-like description of some biodiversity symbols. But these are not the official ones. In the following paragraphs, you will see other symbols, appearing in vignettes that illustrate synoptic or thematic prose. In the post-1950 official symbols, it might be possible to eke out themes, but even there one would be hard pressed to explain why the Indian peafowl is the national bird, and not the Indian white-rumped vulture or the Great Indian Bustard. If there is a consensus to remove the table, then creating a section in prose for the official symbols would be of little value; they are best represented in different sections, if indeed they need to be mentioned. The Ganges already appears in India#Geography, so what are we going to add, that is not cliched? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:29, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

  From all this above sounds like a section is even more warranted to educate our reader's much more so then one at Canada. Why such an omission? Moxy🍁 02:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Moxy: Sorry, I didn't notice this post of yours earlier. Explanations are warranted, but they are too complex to be in one section. They are better off in the sections in which the contexts of these emblems belong. So, upon rethinking this, I agree that we can get rid of the table in government section. The first five or six entries in the table are already in the infobox and the remaining are treated—either individually or as subject topics whose constituents they are (e.g. animal families and their ecology)—in either India#Geography or India#Biodiversity.

  Nations (as constituted by people) and governments (as elected by people) do take pride in these emblems or symbols, but reliable sources for both accuracy and due weight are better at identifying what is notable in an encylopedia

  So, yes, we can get rid of the table. If it has the support of others, please do the honors. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:26, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Population density

Population density per square mile should be LOWER than density per square kilometer. WikiMedford (talk) 13:38, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Clutter in lead

First, the citations in the lead are excessive. They're best avoided for uncontroversial claims in the lead per MOS:LEAD. Second, there is a lot of information in the lead that's not super necessary; it can be condensed. Will boldly fix these issues myself barring objections but I thought I'd forewarn the regulars here. JDiala (talk) 06:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Fowler&fowler, @RegentsPark, @Abecedare, @The Herald. PadFoot (talk) 04:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@JDiala can you provide what specifically in the lead you think is clutter? Such regulars you mention would also likely take objection to any edit you make to the lead, so these should be discussed here first as the lead has been scrutinized heavily over the past 20 or so years. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 04:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Flemmish Nietzsche, removing citations for noncontroversial claims in the lead is the most important thing. In addition to that, aspects of the lead are far too verbose. FA guidelines are clear that the lead should be "concise"; this is anything but. Giving some concrete examples, "Its evidence today is found in the hymns of the Rigveda. Preserved by an oral tradition that was resolutely vigilant, the Rigveda records the dawning of Hinduism in India." No need to discuss how well oral tradition is preserved in lead. This is a specific detail better for the body. Could be condensed as "Its evidence today is found in the hymns of the Rigveda, one of the earliest scriptures of Hinduism". Another example, "Their collective era was suffused with wide-ranging creativity, but also marked by the declining status of women, and the incorporation of untouchability into an organised system of belief." Should be removed entirely or substantially condensed, not clear why the status of women in some medieval kingdom is lead-crucial; furthermore caste system based inequality is already discussed elsewhere in lead. "A pioneering and influential nationalist movement emerged..." not sure why "pioneering and influential" is needed. In addition to clutter, it's excessive flattery for a encyclopedia. The second sentence is also strange: "It is the seventh-largest country by area; the most populous country with effect from June 2023; and from the time of its independence in 1947, the world's most populous democracy", why does the second sentence require discussion of two separate metrics with respect to India's democracy being the largest (most populous democracy since '47, most populous country since '23). Just say most populous country. "Their long occupation, initially in varying forms of isolation as hunter-gatherers, has made the region highly diverse, second only to Africa in human genetic diversity", it's not clear why this is lead-crucial. I mean in addition to it not being obvious why a very high "human genetic diversity" is interesting, it's not even first place here!

For comparison, other country articles that do the lead far better include the United States, Germany, Russia. These countries have histories no less rich than that of India yet still manage to keep the lead size under control. JDiala (talk) 08:28, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

This is WP's oldest country FA, soon to be 20 years old. We don't typically follow the US or Russia, which are not FAs. The version in place now was written for the page's second WP:TFA appearance on October 2, 2019, which was Gandhi's 150th. For several months before, several versions were discussed with several dozen editors on the talk page, now in the archives, Please read them. Other sentences such as the one about the Rg Veda and the Partition were added later after much talk page discussion. I for one am opposed to all the notions proposed by you, including the ones specifically about the lead sentences. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying that there has been debate on some of the specific issues. Could you explain how a lead with so many citations for claims not likely to be challenged passed the FA review when it is a clear violation of MOS:LEADCITE? Was this aspect ever discussed? JDiala (talk) 08:49, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

We have tried removing them, but the disruption increases exponentially.

Its best that you not template us. Most of us have been on WP for years and know the rules. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:58, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

As Fowler notes, it has turned out quite a lot is likely to be challenged. Where we could do better is aligning the lead sources with the body sources, but a sourceless lead is likely to lead to more disruption. CMD (talk) 09:28, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

We do have modern featured country articles that have sources as seen at WP:COUNTRYSIZE...that said the lead could use a modern approach to its layout WP:COUNTRYLEAD.....lots of random stats here. Moxy🍁 11:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

But you, Moxy, appear to be the prime interpreter of that modernity. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Correct as protocols evolves to make articles better so does our advice on what is best for accessibility. Have you looked at how ALL other FA and GA countries articles look? (no text sandwich, no horizontal scrolling etc) We are an active project that spends lots of time on managing our articles FA and GA as standards evolve. FA standards and accessibility problems from 5, 10, 20 years ago have changed alot...thats why the project sets recommendations and links to the protocols that have changed over the years. Accessibility should be the main concern......thus why all the projects recommendations our based/linked to our evolving guidelines or policies. As you can see editor after editor raises different concerns based on protocols here to no avail. JDiala makes some very good points...but basically you tell them and all l its an old FA article and you want no changes.....thus the article looks antiquated. The fact ever edit/change needs a talk is a problem. Moxy🍁 19:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 August 2024

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Population ranking should be moved from 30th to 31th. Complicated&Anonymous (talk) 19:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

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