Revision as of 10:48, 26 August 2024 editAccipio Mitis Frux (talk | contribs)391 edits →Removal of "far-right" descriptor← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:49, 26 August 2024 edit undoAccipio Mitis Frux (talk | contribs)391 edits →Removal of "far-right" descriptor: ReplyTag: ReplyNext edit → | ||
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:::It appears that conservative is the more common label. "Far right" is a contentious label given that Misplaced Pages's article on the subject links the label to Nazis etc. The original edit trying to justify the label contained some OR in order to justify the label. Even if we have some sources that use the label, given the BLP concerns here we should scrutinize them for quality. Such labels are often reporter opinion mixed into factual reports on what she said. ] (]) 13:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | :::It appears that conservative is the more common label. "Far right" is a contentious label given that Misplaced Pages's article on the subject links the label to Nazis etc. The original edit trying to justify the label contained some OR in order to justify the label. Even if we have some sources that use the label, given the BLP concerns here we should scrutinize them for quality. Such labels are often reporter opinion mixed into factual reports on what she said. ] (]) 13:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::: Yeah, I think this is linked to the very recent anti-semitic/blood libel stuff. Whilst Owens may have some views commonly linked to the far-right, I don't see a preponderance of sources calling her that. This is not a situation like Greene or Boebert (yet). ] 19:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | :::: Yeah, I think this is linked to the very recent anti-semitic/blood libel stuff. Whilst Owens may have some views commonly linked to the far-right, I don't see a preponderance of sources calling her that. This is not a situation like Greene or Boebert (yet). ] 19:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::::I like that you added "yet" to this comment back in March, because the situation looks much different now in August, post-Mengele comments. I am proposing putting far right back in the descriptor. ] (]) 10:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I agree with the removal of far-right here. The sources are insufficient to use this label in the lede right now; of the ones added with the original edit to the article, the only RSP I see there is The Guardian, as the article from The Hill doesn't even use the term far-right. She's much more widely described as a conservative commentator (as opposed to the above examples of MTG and Boebert who are expressly called "far-right politicians" in many articles) and unless this changes the sources aren't overwhelming enough to justify it being in the lede. ''']''' <sup>(] - ])</sup> 19:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | :I agree with the removal of far-right here. The sources are insufficient to use this label in the lede right now; of the ones added with the original edit to the article, the only RSP I see there is The Guardian, as the article from The Hill doesn't even use the term far-right. She's much more widely described as a conservative commentator (as opposed to the above examples of MTG and Boebert who are expressly called "far-right politicians" in many articles) and unless this changes the sources aren't overwhelming enough to justify it being in the lede. ''']''' <sup>(] - ])</sup> 19:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC) | ||
:Per above, I agree that this doesn't belong in the ], as is not a widespread description. Also agree with the MTG and Boebert comparison; she's not quite there yet, probably one more antisemitic controversy away at present. I have however replaced the MREL reference with multiple GREL in the body per this edit , as it appears very much due at this point. I don't really see how this can be summarised in the lead without regurgitation, apart from in the final paragraph at a stretch, but I do wonder whether multiple GREL makes it relevant in the infobox under movement, given the quantity and quality of current references. ] (]) 16:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC) | :Per above, I agree that this doesn't belong in the ], as is not a widespread description. Also agree with the MTG and Boebert comparison; she's not quite there yet, probably one more antisemitic controversy away at present. I have however replaced the MREL reference with multiple GREL in the body per this edit , as it appears very much due at this point. I don't really see how this can be summarised in the lead without regurgitation, apart from in the final paragraph at a stretch, but I do wonder whether multiple GREL makes it relevant in the infobox under movement, given the quantity and quality of current references. ] (]) 16:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 10:49, 26 August 2024
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Removal of "far-right" descriptor
Since some editors are objecting to the inclusion of the term Far-right without discussing it on the talk page, I'll start the discussion.
I believe the use of the term is appropriate here. There's quite a few news sources (provided in the Special:Diff/1215197468) that use the term when referring to her, and a quick search finds even more.
Other American politicans pages such as Marjorie Taylor Greene use the term with a similar number of citations. Funnyfarmofdoom (talk to me) 20:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- She's far more commonly called conservative. MTG is a rare exception for this extreme tag, see the discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Marjorie_Taylor_Greene#Neutrality_Dispute_Tag --FMSky (talk) 21:07, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with using the label of far right. As is the standard on wikipedia we use what the media uses to describe her. There are 6 different citations in listed Special:Diff/1215197468. Chefs-kiss (talk) 21:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Most sources call her conservative --FMSky (talk) 21:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Variety, CNN. However I think since this is very recent news and determining how the media is describing her I suggest waiting a bit more to see what the language around her is. I suggest we wait til the 24th and wait to see how this develops. Chefs-kiss (talk) 21:19, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Just a bunch of examples for 'conversative': 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, including one calling her "the face of black conservatism". And we literally have a section titled "Conservative activism", so unless someone wants to rewrite her entire Career and Views section, this should not go in the lead --FMSky (talk) 21:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Fair point. I did find her article a bit unorganized but its true. As i said i think we should wait to see Chefs-kiss (talk) 10:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- It appears that conservative is the more common label. "Far right" is a contentious label given that Misplaced Pages's article on the subject links the label to Nazis etc. The original edit trying to justify the label contained some OR in order to justify the label. Even if we have some sources that use the label, given the BLP concerns here we should scrutinize them for quality. Such labels are often reporter opinion mixed into factual reports on what she said. Springee (talk) 13:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think this is linked to the very recent anti-semitic/blood libel stuff. Whilst Owens may have some views commonly linked to the far-right, I don't see a preponderance of sources calling her that. This is not a situation like Greene or Boebert (yet). Black Kite (talk) 19:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- I like that you added "yet" to this comment back in March, because the situation looks much different now in August, post-Mengele comments. I am proposing putting far right back in the descriptor. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 10:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think this is linked to the very recent anti-semitic/blood libel stuff. Whilst Owens may have some views commonly linked to the far-right, I don't see a preponderance of sources calling her that. This is not a situation like Greene or Boebert (yet). Black Kite (talk) 19:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Most sources call her conservative --FMSky (talk) 21:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with the removal of far-right here. The sources are insufficient to use this label in the lede right now; of the ones added with the original edit to the article, the only RSP I see there is The Guardian, as the article from The Hill doesn't even use the term far-right. She's much more widely described as a conservative commentator (as opposed to the above examples of MTG and Boebert who are expressly called "far-right politicians" in many articles) and unless this changes the sources aren't overwhelming enough to justify it being in the lede. ser! 19:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per above, I agree that this doesn't belong in the MOS:FIRST, as is not a widespread description. Also agree with the MTG and Boebert comparison; she's not quite there yet, probably one more antisemitic controversy away at present. I have however replaced the MREL reference with multiple GREL in the body per this edit , as it appears very much due at this point. I don't really see how this can be summarised in the lead without regurgitation, apart from in the final paragraph at a stretch, but I do wonder whether multiple GREL makes it relevant in the infobox under movement, given the quantity and quality of current references. CNC (talk) 16:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Can we re-visit this conversation? The discussion of whether or not Owens is far right took place in March, when she was considerably more mainstream. Since then, she has had countless comments that would put her safely in the neo-Nazi camp, to a much greater extent than others (such as MTG) that carry the label of far right. I propose adding "far right" to the descriptor. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 10:47, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Daily Wire career in body
The intro mentions Candace's departure from the DailyWire, however this is not verified in the body. In general, WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY so it would be good to cover her 'career' and time (and eventual departure) at DailyWire in the body. Zenomonoz (talk) 23:18, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- it does. It's mentioned in the race section and in the career section. Chefs-kiss (talk) 23:33, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Anti Gay Uganda bill
She also praised the Uganda anti gay bill 41.59.151.25 (talk) 08:14, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Can you provide RS links if you want this added into the article? TomaHawk61 (talk) 03:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Section needed for Antisemitic Statements
In the last couple of months, Owens has moved far beyond "Israel-Palestine" in terms of her comments that veer into antisemitism. For example, she has suggested multiple times that the "Jewish lobby" killed JFK, defended the Nazis explicitly (i.e. "the Germans were the ones being ethnically cleansed"), doubting the experiments of Dr. Josef Mangele and denouncing them as propaganda, and most recently declaring that anyone that criticizes Israel needs to fear getting killed. This is after many other extreme comments that blatantly veer into antisemitism.
Since I have sources for all of the above, I would like to put these in the article. However, I don't think that "Israel-Palestine" is an appropriate place to do so as this is more in the realm of Neo-Nazi rhetoric and should have it's own section with a title like "accusations of anti-semitism." If anyone opposes this please post here, otherwise I will create the section in the coming days. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 08:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
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