Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:33, 26 August 2024

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography Palestine Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Misplaced Pages. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Women This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women Journalism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic: You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive) You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. Further information The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required. With respect to the WP:1RR restriction: Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence. After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions. Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Filmmaker should be changed to Journalist 2600:1700:B522:36C0:2885:14CE:377B:B06A (talk) 08:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ARandomName123 (talk) 02:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Content creator and activist , Activist and journalist IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Done ✅ IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:15, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

There is some misinformation under the section 'Online Presence.' The sentence reads, "she alleged that 800 people were killed by an Israeli airstrike on the hospital, when the emerging consensus is that between two and three hundred people died when an Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket fell short."

It has not been confirmed who bombed the hospital. Stating that it was the Palestinian Jihad who bombed the hospital, when it hasn't even been confirmed, is biased and unproper reporting. There are many "claims" supporting both sides. It is very likely that Israel was behind the bombing given that they bombed many other hospitals afterwards. Please remove this detail as it is misleading and insignificant. Dede183 (talk) 06:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) (talk) 12:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The entire second paragraph under Online presence that starts “On November 2” should be stricken. It is propaganda and besmirches Bisan’s reputation. Just because a biased newspaper alleges something and declares something to be “emerging consensus” does not make it factual. Eggkeeper (talk) 02:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: we inline attribute the accusations to the Jerusalem Post, which is generally considered to be a RS as far as I can tell. As for the rest of that paragraph, it mirrors what we have going on at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion Cannolis (talk) 02:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I disagree and removed it on BLP grounds. Allegations of that seriousness need more than a single source. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Writer?

This edit added Bisan to Category:Palestinian writers. As far as I'm aware she is not a writer but a video journalist. @IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

That's a good point. It looks like there's enough people in Category:Palestinian journalists to make an entire category for 21st-century Palestinian journalists, so I could make the category and update it accordingly. Thoughts? Mason (talk) 04:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Anyway, I made the change, https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bisan_Owda&oldid=1218842056, adding them to the journal category, and removing from the women writers category. Feel free to revert if that's not what you had in mind. Mason (talk) 04:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Brilliant 👍 IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 May 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Bisan Owda is a Palestinian journalist, film maker, and story teller. As a kid, Bisan dreamed of becoming an astronaut. In an instagram post, she recalls that at the age of 7, she knew she wanted to make change happen and make the world a better place.

Before October 7th, she dedicated her time to speak up for Palestine, using storytelling as a tool to bridge the gap across generations and share Palestinian culture, History, and struggles. She went viral with her signature sentence "Hi, it's Bisan and I am still alive", and many social media users have mentioned under her posts that they would log in every day and feel relieved after hearing these words. Createthehope (talk) 22:54, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Bisan Owda. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

From the following article we see that Bisan Osda was a member of the Palestinian Progressive Youth Union movement https://web.archive.org/web/20240727002518/https://pflp.ps/post/16667/%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%82%D8%AF%D9%85%D9%8A-%D9%8A%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%AD-%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%B8%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AB%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A8%D8%B9%D9%86%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%87

and is part of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, as per the listing on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/World_Federation_of_Democratic_Youth

Since it was only 5 years ago, I believe it is relevant as part of Bisan Owda's background. Thank you. Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 12:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Any English language sources to support this? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, just saw this:

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/08/08/gaza-journalist-with-suspected-terror-ties-reportedly-nominated-for-emmy/ Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 05:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Bisan Owda. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

OnyekeEjike (talk) 23:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

TheWrap

Hey @Rainsage, could you elaborate on this edit? FortunateSons (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

The Reliable Sources page says: "As an industry trade publication, there is consensus that TheWrap is a good source for entertainment news and media analysis. There is no consensus regarding the reliability of TheWrap's articles on other topics." The BLP page says: "the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment."

I don't think we should use TheWrap as a source on this contentious topic on a BLP, when there are better sources. Rainsage (talk) 17:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s a generally reliable source for entertainment news, being used for entertainment use. In what way do you think it can cause harm, beyond was is already covered in the article? FortunateSons (talk) 17:47, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think a journalist being accused of PLFP ties while reporting during an alleged genocide during which journalists are allegedly being targeted by the alleged genocider is entertainment Rainsage (talk) 18:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The alleged ties of a journalist and influencer being reported in the context of her Emmy nomination is, just as any other accusation of misconduct/a crime against a celebrity would be. For example, MeToo coverage would be entertainment too, IMO FortunateSons (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

And “this is important context to include” is not really a good due argument that gets close to a WP:coatrack (harm to journalists). And what is the issue with the lower reverted edit? It does not alter the meaning for the sentence. FortunateSons (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s not a coatrack because the source is specifically about Owda and connecting the topics. That Al Jazeera's journalists have been killed by Israel with claims of their involvement with "terrorist organizations" is obviously relevant to this claim that this Al Jazeera journalist has such ties. But it is relevant because the statement connects the two. SBS Australia also connects the topic of the killed journalists to this campaign. nableezy - 18:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

So it’s just undue then. The response is longer than the main point, that’s never a good sign. FortunateSons (talk) 18:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you that the paragraph should be shorter, but if it mentions danger to her safety we should mention why. I also don't think this "controversy" warrants its own subsection. Rainsage (talk) 18:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

We could link to any of the subsections on killed journalists in the conflict? Would that work? FortunateSons (talk) 19:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think it undue in the slightest. And coverage from SBS relating the two demonstrates that it is due. Same for CBC And when the main point is an unsubstantiated allegation against a living person the response should be as long as the sources support. Which is this much. nableezy - 19:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It’s undue relative to the coverage of the allegations, which is of course solvable by extending the allegations. But I would say that it would be better to instead shorten the response, particularly as it’s not her response. Maybe just keeping AJ and removing CAIR is an option? FortunateSons (talk) 19:33, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think that’s true at all, and no I don’t think either should be removed. We cover the allegation in full, and we cover the response in full. nableezy - 19:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

For example, the we neither mention the picture nor the speech at the anniversary. Both are highly significant IMO, and the CAIR statement matters less than the photos do. FortunateSons (talk) 20:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

What the CBC says is The industry group's main complaint is an unproven allegation that Owda has ties to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine … The PFLP allegations stem from posts on X (formerly Twitter) made by a communications analyst that purport to show Owda, 25, speaking at PFLP-related events as a teenager between 2014 and 2018. Purport to show, unproven allegation is the type of phrasing that would be appropriate here for a BLP. nableezy - 20:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I prefer the NYT phrasing, which says “There are reports and photographs indicating that Owda spoke at group events between 2014 and 2018.”, and linking to TheWrap, which uses “CCFP, a pro-Israel nonprofit organization, discovered Owda’s long-standing ties to PFLP, which has been a designated terrorist organization in the U.S. since 1997. The journalist regularly spoke at PFLP rallies and hosted events to honor Palestinians injured or killed in violent confrontations with Israeli soldiers. In 2018, the PFLP explicitly referred to Owda as a member of the Progressive Youth Union of the organization.” Let’s look for a reasonable compromise between those. FortunateSons (talk) 20:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The Wrap is a non starter here, it makes claims of fact that the real sources say are unproven allegations. nableezy - 20:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Which? FortunateSons (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Owda's supposed "long-standing ties to PFLP", which the actually reliable sources call unproven accusations or that reports suggest. nableezy - 22:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

That’s circular reasoning if that’s the claim I want to source. TheWrap is green on RSN for entertainment news (which it is), her picture are on the PFLP site, it’s a respected (enough) publication, and the NYT is citing it as attribution for the claims, which are not disputed as fraudulent. We should clarify that the extent and nature of the connections are unproven, but there is no serious dispute about what those pictures show, and so we should be clear about that part too FortunateSons (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

No, Owdas supposed participation in in the PFLP is not entertainment news. Much stronger sources are not making the claim the wrap is making, they are saying this is an unverified allegation, and that there is this petition. Using such a source in a blp is a straightforward BLP violation when stronger sources say it is not proven and the pictures only purportedly show such a thing, or that the pictures also wouldn’t prove any affiliation. nableezy - 01:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I disagree on all counts, but in the spirit of compromise: “The group cited pictures and reports which purport to show Owda speaking at PFLP events as late as 2018.” or any other summary of the NYT + Deadline + other coverage is fine IMO, but the images are a core part of the story and should be included, but I’m not attached to the particular phrasing. FortunateSons (talk) 10:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

What can you infer about Obama from this photo of his dining with Ali Abunimah, Rashid Khalidi and Edward Said? If it were to circulate the effect would either be (a)see. I told you: Obama is an anti-Israel Muslim (b)See. I told you. Obama really is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (c) Obama is a two-timing hypocritical brownnoser. He hangs out with Arabs and then stabs them in the back when he gets into power, etc. Photos, unless we have precise information on who said what to whom, where etc., have zero meaning and, in such cases, their use only serves to use images to suggest an implication you cannot objectively draw from them without such background. This is particularly true of photos of a teenager in a very small world where opportunities to engage in above-subsistance conversation are minimal.Nishidani (talk) 12:33, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The Wrap got this from Creative Community for Peace which drew on a report by the self-employed Eitan Fischberger, who worked as an Iron Dome technician in the 2014 Gaza War, and was impressed by the great lengths he and his fellow technicans went to avoid civilian casualties, and disturbed by media distortions of this 'fact'. The facts there are that of the 2,310 killed in that war the United Nations Human Rights Committee stated 65% were civilians (1,500). The IDF says only 35% were civilians (808) - so yeah, either way Israel took extraordinary steps to avoid civilian casualties. Then Fischberger got his formative training, successively, working for CAMERA and NGO Monitor, both notorious for surreptitiously infiltrating wikipedia to influence its articles, aside from their status as unusable sources. Since then he's a freelance, and has suddenly developed, all on his own, a deep familiarity with Arabic-language websites. He has his name up there in lights for blowing Bisan Owda's cover as a teenage terrorist (after all he has stated he has dedicated himself to the defense of 'Western Civilization').

The IDF is on record as saying that anyone in Gaza who has had any link with Hamas, even though only as a journalist working for local Gaza media, is to be viewed as no different from a fighter in the Al-Qassam Brigades, any member of whom is killed when detected. 86% of over 200 journalists in Gaza stated their homes had been directly bombed. Of the 110+ Gaza journalists killed by Israel,30% worked for media outlets affiliated with or closely tied to Hamas (of which PFLP is one). Therefore, technically this narrative places her in a position of danger. Since Eitanberger is the core font for these allegations, I would suggest the place to discuss this is the BLP/Noticeboard for neutral input. Good luck with that one. I'd be happy to lay bets on the outcome. Nishidani (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

• Biography articles of living people
• C-Class biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• C-Class Palestine-related articles
• Low-importance Palestine-related articles
• WikiProject Palestine articles
• C-Class WikiProject Women articles
• All WikiProject Women-related pages
• WikiProject Women articles
• C-Class Journalism articles
• Low-importance Journalism articles
• WikiProject Journalism articles
• Misplaced Pages extended-confirmed-protected edit requests