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:::::What do you think about the current version`--] (]) 11:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::What do you think about the current version`--] (]) 11:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::I wish you had asked before doing two instant reverts in close proximity to my edits. I simply don't have time for edit warring so I am okay with the descriptor as it is until we hear from more contributors. However, I think that the 2019 Washington Post description is not relevant and I think it should be removed. If you disagree, please explain. ] (]) 11:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::I wish you had asked before doing two instant reverts in close proximity to my edits. I simply don't have time for edit warring so I am okay with the descriptor as it is until we hear from more contributors. However, I think that the 2019 Washington Post description is not relevant and I think it should be removed. If you disagree, please explain. ] (]) 11:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I think its very relevant but since you and another user have objected to its inclusion i've removed it ] (]) 11:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
== Daily Wire career in body ==
== Daily Wire career in body ==
Revision as of 11:35, 5 September 2024
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Since some editors are objecting to the inclusion of the term Far-right without discussing it on the talk page, I'll start the discussion.
I believe the use of the term is appropriate here. There's quite a few news sources (provided in the Special:Diff/1215197468) that use the term when referring to her, and a quick search findsevenmore.
Variety, CNN. However I think since this is very recent news and determining how the media is describing her I suggest waiting a bit more to see what the language around her is. I suggest we wait til the 24th and wait to see how this develops. Chefs-kiss (talk) 21:19, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Just a bunch of examples for 'conversative': 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, including one calling her "the face of black conservatism". And we literally have a section titled "Conservative activism", so unless someone wants to rewrite her entire Career and Views section, this should not go in the lead --FMSky (talk) 21:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
It appears that conservative is the more common label. "Far right" is a contentious label given that Misplaced Pages's article on the subject links the label to Nazis etc. The original edit trying to justify the label contained some OR in order to justify the label. Even if we have some sources that use the label, given the BLP concerns here we should scrutinize them for quality. Such labels are often reporter opinion mixed into factual reports on what she said. Springee (talk) 13:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I think this is linked to the very recent anti-semitic/blood libel stuff. Whilst Owens may have some views commonly linked to the far-right, I don't see a preponderance of sources calling her that. This is not a situation like Greene or Boebert (yet). Black Kite (talk)19:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
I like that you added "yet" to this comment back in March, because the situation looks much different now in August, post-Mengele comments. I am proposing putting far right back in the descriptor. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 10:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
I agree with the removal of far-right here. The sources are insufficient to use this label in the lede right now; of the ones added with the original edit to the article, the only RSP I see there is The Guardian, as the article from The Hill doesn't even use the term far-right. She's much more widely described as a conservative commentator (as opposed to the above examples of MTG and Boebert who are expressly called "far-right politicians" in many articles) and unless this changes the sources aren't overwhelming enough to justify it being in the lede. ser!19:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Per above, I agree that this doesn't belong in the MOS:FIRST, as is not a widespread description. Also agree with the MTG and Boebert comparison; she's not quite there yet, probably one more antisemitic controversy away at present. I have however replaced the MREL reference with multiple GREL in the body per this edit , as it appears very much due at this point. I don't really see how this can be summarised in the lead without regurgitation, apart from in the final paragraph at a stretch, but I do wonder whether multiple GREL makes it relevant in the infobox under movement, given the quantity and quality of current references. CNC (talk) 16:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Can we re-visit this conversation? The discussion of whether or not Owens is far right took place in March, when she was considerably more mainstream. Since then, she has had countless comments that would put her safely in the neo-Nazi camp, to a much greater extent than others (such as MTG) that carry the label of far right. I propose adding "far right" to the descriptor. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 10:47, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Per the sourcing of far-right, it's pretty shocking to have "Described as "the new face of black conservatism" by The Washington Post" in the lead from a single source, compared to the WP:DUE description of far-right from a bunch of RS. For starters the description from 2019, while relevant back then, seems considerably outdated and no other sources appear to describe Owens as such. As someone on the right that has delved into antisemitism, being described as far-right also appears entirely accurate. CNC (talk) 13:03, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the additional information and insight. I am implementing both of these changes; if anyone takes issue please respond to this thread with your input. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 11:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I do not think that this is at all reasonable ground for a revert. Looking at this issue historically, Candace Owens was already carrying the far-right label at the beginning of this debate and the fact that the events of the last 6 months have established "far right" as being an appropriate descriptor makes this update more relevant, not less. Furthermore, I gave ample time for others to interject on this topic and you could have contributed to the discussion and waited for consensus. I did that, and I added sources. Please make suggestions to the talk page and show that other users agree before simply reverting changes. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 10:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I would disagree. Once there is consensus that a pundit or activist is far-right, that is always in the descriptor, at least in every page that I have seen. If it is a gray area, I might agree, but that is not the case here. Try googling "Candace Owens far right" and seeing what comes up. If there is another place in the article you think it is better placed, than feel free to suggest it. But if you are going to simply revert my edits without any sort of consensus, that is not proper decorum. Is this your plan moving forward or are you willing to open up the discussion and wait for consensus? Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 11:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I wish you had asked before doing two instant reverts in close proximity to my edits. I simply don't have time for edit warring so I am okay with the descriptor as it is until we hear from more contributors. However, I think that the 2019 Washington Post description is not relevant and I think it should be removed. If you disagree, please explain. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 11:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
The intro mentions Candace's departure from the DailyWire, however this is not verified in the body. In general, WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY so it would be good to cover her 'career' and time (and eventual departure) at DailyWire in the body. Zenomonoz (talk) 23:18, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
In the last couple of months, Owens has moved far beyond "Israel-Palestine" in terms of her comments that veer into antisemitism. For example, she has suggested multiple times that the "Jewish lobby" killed JFK, defended the Nazis explicitly (i.e. "the Germans were the ones being ethnically cleansed"), doubting the experiments of Dr. Josef Mangele and denouncing them as propaganda, and most recently declaring that anyone that criticizes Israel needs to fear getting killed. This is after many other extreme comments that blatantly veer into antisemitism.
Since I have sources for all of the above, I would like to put these in the article. However, I don't think that "Israel-Palestine" is an appropriate place to do so as this is more in the realm of Neo-Nazi rhetoric and should have it's own section with a title like "accusations of anti-semitism." If anyone opposes this please post here, otherwise I will create the section in the coming days. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 08:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
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