Talk:Dragan Vasiljković: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 12:17, 1 October 2024 editSadko (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers81,682 edits OneClickArchived "Athomein/Dragan Vasiljkovic." to Talk:Dragan Vasiljković/Archive 1 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 12:17, 1 October 2024 edit undoSadko (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers81,682 edits OneClickArchived "Athomein/Dragan Vsiljkovic" to Talk:Dragan Vasiljković/Archive 1 Next edit →
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	== Athomein/Dragan Vsiljkovic ==

	Athomein have you read the unsigned criticisms above going back as far as 2007 of another person who like me wanted the Wiki article deleted. The person who wrote those criticism I hope is not the person who wrote the Wiki article. The critical comments above against the 2007 Wiki deletion defy the imagination for bigoted unbalanced thought processes and are ridiculous. If someone has been put in jail without evidence or charge as long as V then over 1 year (now 10 years) it is clearly a gross injustice and totally undemocratic. I do not know what " use neutral tone" means in this context unless you could write in Swiss and there is no Swiss language only German, French and Italian. To say that the relevant law for V in the United States, Canada, New Zealand and the United Kingdom is "not verifiable" is the stupid thing I have read this week. It is verifiable. It is on the net and you can verify it simply by using the machine you are on through Google searches. To say that comparing V to David Hicks is "stupid" is itself stupid because V has been treated infinitely more unfairly than David Hicks. Hicks had no flag or uniform, was charged with ordinary crimes having a nexus to war and the Bush Military Commission gave Hicks a much higher standard of procedural justice than V who has had none and is still in jail. Despite this Hicks was released because the standard of justice given to Hicks by the Bush Military Commission was still too low for Geneva general standards in common article 3.1(d) even though the crimes were municipal crimes having a nexus to a non-international armed conflict with terrorists out of uniform and no flag and not ius in bello war crimes in an international armed conflict like V. ( see amicus curiae appearance for Hicks in U.S Supreme Court in the majority decision in the case of Hamden v Rumsfeld). This is a classic example of the type of ignorance that has led to the illegal persecution of V which is now a massive scandal. Most of those obvious criticisms made by the person who wanted the Wiki article deleted in 2007 are easily verifiable by just using the machine we are on and they should have been heeded back in 2007. This is obvious now in late 2016.

	The above person concerned has never heard of the presumption of innocence especially where no charge or evidence has been produced against V. Instead V was charged 10 years later after he had served his sentence but perhaps in saying that I do not have a neutral tone because it is such a obvious damning truth. Above you are dealing with a clear case of someone who thinks "where there is smoke there is fire" but has the gall to accuse someone else of expressing a POV that is obviously correct on all the known provable facts. These kinds of people are common and always dangerous. What is perverse is that "where there is smoke there is fire"is correct but alas more often "the fire" is in the person making the allegation and "the smoke" is on the poor victim that has suffered under the false allegation. If this person is the one responsible for the Wiki article you are dealing with someone of low intellect and a definite fascist mid set. This is a clear example of the down side of universal education-- writing out nonsense and ignorance with such enormous arrogance and shallow certainty and above all with a total absence of any talent or training.

	There is one fundamental mistake that all untrained people make about V's case. When the press speaks of "war crimes extraditions" by other countries those extraditions are invariably municipal crimes having a nexus to war called "domestic war crimes". V's case is about war crimes proper or the "ius in bello". Most (and I mean most and even nearly all) countries do not extradite at all for purely ius in bello war crimes or war crimes proper and this includes Croatia and Australia that does not extradite generally for the crimes Croatia has alleged without proof or charge against V. The difference is that municipal crimes including "domestic war crimes"are underwritten by the sovereignty of the state that created them. The ius in bello or war crimes proper are created by the international legal system itself and not the sovereignty of any individual state. Those war crimes proper are not founded in individual state sovereignty but are underwritten by the Nuremberg principle.

	The Nuremberg principle has two limbs (1) states are not criminally responsible under international law only individuals are and (2) it is irrelevant what capacity the individual is acting under municipal law that individual is still criminally responsible under international law for ius in bello war crimes. All the Croatian allegations against V are underwritten by the Nuremberg principle. This is why most states do not extradite because over 80% of those who commit ius in bello or war crimes proper are municipal state officials. Therefore another state could demand that you extradite your head of state or prime minister or defense minister etc. if the state legislated to allow extradition for Geneva. Therefore states live up to their Geneva obligations by prosecuting where the offender is found and do not extradite at all to other states ( see e.g art 129 G III and art. 146 G IV). Australia and Croatia are identical in this respect. Neither extradites for the "war crimes"alleged against V but prosecute where the offender is on their respective territories even if the alleged ius in bello war crimes are said to have happened abroad. It is where the offender is not where the ius in bello war crime occurred that is relevant. States world wide predominantly only adopt Nuremberg crimes including ius in bello war crimes for prosecution not extradition no matter where the alleged crime occurred and Geneva allows states to do this. States do this to protect their own civilian and military officials from prosecution by foreign states where their own municipal law is no defense to the ius in bello war crimes that must always proceed by indictment on prima facie evidence.

	Delete the Wiki article. You could start a new updated Wiki article based on the fact that V has spent over 10 years in jail before trial and without conviction.I can give you all the information if you wish to get the correct word out to Wiki readers. B.S. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:50, 3 October 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	::Where are the Administrators looking after this page?? These long diatribes are directly against TP rules/guidelines - please 'hat' the above and patrol this talk page more rigorously. Thank you. ] (]) 21:11, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

	== External links modified ==		== External links modified ==

Revision as of 12:17, 1 October 2024

This article was nominated for deletion on 17 August 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Contradictory information?

Information from article, "He commanded special units known as Red Berets (not to be confused with the Special Operations Unit (JSO) founded in Serbia in 1996) or Knindže after the Krajina's capital of Knin and ninja fighters." Source for this information is personal testimony from court ie court transcript. @Peacemaker67: I am interested whether the personal or in general testimony from some court is RS? I have this information "he taught military skills to a volunteer unit called "the Knindže", source Otherwise we have this information in the introductory part "was the commander of a Croatian Serb paramilitary unit called the Knindže". Mikola22 (talk) 07:42, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Generally I take the view that only court findings are reliable, not witness statements or testimony, unless specifically mentioned in the summation or finding. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:27, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Maria Todorova; (2004) Balkan Identities: Nation and Memory p. 256; NYU Press, ISBN 0814782795

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