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Revision as of 14:54, 15 October 2024 editDe Wikischim (talk | contribs)426 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Revision as of 14:54, 15 October 2024 edit undoDe Wikischim (talk | contribs)426 editsmNo edit summaryNext edit →
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:The traditional assignment of SLFr dialects as dialects of either German or Dutch is not just based on sociolinguistics; that's Goossens' modern twist of it. It has largely to do with Dutch ressentments against the common German scholarly view of Dutch as part of ''Niederdeutsch'' at least in early times of Germanic studies. This ressentment deepened with the bitter experiences of WWII. It was a Belgian (Goossens) who broke the ice and paved the for cross-border studies by scholars like Giesbert and Bakker. :The traditional assignment of SLFr dialects as dialects of either German or Dutch is not just based on sociolinguistics; that's Goossens' modern twist of it. It has largely to do with Dutch ressentments against the common German scholarly view of Dutch as part of ''Niederdeutsch'' at least in early times of Germanic studies. This ressentment deepened with the bitter experiences of WWII. It was a Belgian (Goossens) who broke the ice and paved the for cross-border studies by scholars like Giesbert and Bakker.
:And is it two days or two hours? –] (]) 14:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC) :And is it two days or two hours? –] (]) 14:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
::""With ''homogenous language varieties'', I simply meant to express the fact that the diverse dialects which make up together the group linguistically referred to as "South Low Franconian" are mutually homogenous enough for this classification to be made. Yes, I know this may actually seem rather self-evident; yet I believe this formulation is preferable over calling it "a dialect group", which seems an oversimplification here. ] (]) 14:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC) ::With ''homogenous language varieties'', I simply meant to express the fact that the diverse dialects which make up together the group linguistically referred to as "South Low Franconian" are mutually homogenous enough for this classification to be made. Yes, I know this may actually seem rather self-evident; yet I believe this formulation is preferable over calling it "a dialect group", which seems an oversimplification here. ] (]) 14:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

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About the latest revert to the last version by Austronesier

@Austronesier: With this, you have undone all the edits which were made on this article in the last two days, something with which I cannot agree. First, my own reformulations were - of course- made for several good reasons. Second, even though I do disagree as well with the greater part of Vlaemink's edits here and on similar topics elsewhere, I think the addition/clarification "Sociolinguistically" was correct anyway here, and could easily have been kept.

So would you at least consider putting this previous version back? I ask this in particular because I don't want to revert you just this way. De Wikischim (talk) 14:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

No. "A group of homogenous language varieties" is meaningless. What is homogenous? South Low Franconian? That's obviously incorrect. Every source will tell you that South Low Franconian is hardly defined by any exclusively shared innovation, but rather as a traditional zone of isoglosses that link it either to other Low Franconian dialect groups or to Ripuarian and which cut right through the South Low Franconian area. Goossens (1965) gives a nice overview of it, for details there are multiple other good sources. Or are the indivdual varieties homogenous? The fact that the speech of one town is fairly homogenous is trivial, and we wouldn't mention it in any other article about a linguistic grouping. The contintental West Germanic (to the exclusion of Frisian) forms dialect continuum, and every grouping within this continuum is a "dialect group". This is most NPOV way to about it. "Refers to" is bad (see WP:REFERSTO).
The traditional assignment of SLFr dialects as dialects of either German or Dutch is not just based on sociolinguistics; that's Goossens' modern twist of it. It has largely to do with Dutch ressentments against the common German scholarly view of Dutch as part of Niederdeutsch at least in early times of Germanic studies. This ressentment deepened with the bitter experiences of WWII. It was a Belgian (Goossens) who broke the ice and paved the for cross-border studies by scholars like Giesbert and Bakker.
And is it two days or two hours? –Austronesier (talk) 14:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
With homogenous language varieties, I simply meant to express the fact that the diverse dialects which make up together the group linguistically referred to as "South Low Franconian" are mutually homogenous enough for this classification to be made. Yes, I know this may actually seem rather self-evident; yet I believe this formulation is preferable over calling it "a dialect group", which seems an oversimplification here. De Wikischim (talk) 14:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
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