Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:11, 1 November 2024

This WikiProject is to organise climate change related articles. Use this talk page for discussion of issues that may involve multiple articles. Any article-specific discussion should take place on the talk page of the relevant article.

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Climate change and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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Readings and References for WP Editors on different climate topics.

Hi all,

On the other side of a lot of work now, we went back and revised a table of topical readings/references for WP Editors that we had compiled as part of a Rapid Grant from Wiki Foundation. Our goal was to find overview readings/references for at least 10 main topics on climate actions (energy, food, transportation, personal....) to share - items that we can use to help structure WP articles or our own articles, or to be able to quickly answer questions about climate action topics. We based this idea off of the previous Africa climate project page's table of recommended references.

Luckily, one of our contractors, @resilientsage (Shoshana), came back after a year hiatus and took over the project from the first draft we shared. Shoshana is a trained researcher and has worked for the EPA on agriculture and food topics, and she (and I some) reviewed and edited the table to meet Misplaced Pages standards more strongly. Shoshana notes:

This reference list is for climate wiki editors (and wiki editors writing outside WP) to consider reading and conveniently have available to cite when adding to climate pages specific to topics, as well as to build upon (i.e., add articles into).

Under the column *Misplaced Pages Status*:

a) The sources listed as "Recommended for Misplaced Pages" are meant to be solid references about relevant topics and we believe likely to meet wiki community standards.

b) As examples and to consider using again, we have included select citations used in climate-related Misplaced Pages articles as “From Misplaced Pages”.

c) Because wiki standards are specific to context, we have also created a list of potential references that may be useful but are unclear as to whether suitable for potential inclusion/or that depend on context: i.e., the "To Be Discussed."

So, for instance, if you want to write about climate and transportation - there are some potential articles that might be of interest - just look for Transportation under the column Topics.

We really want this to be of help by being a starting point for discussion about key articles we can/should use, and for editors to add to, comment on, etc, as time goes by. I think the first step is to have @Clayoquot and any others interested look at the Google sheet, and then we can create a subpage under the Recommended Sources where this could be the start of a framework of resources we recommend each other read on particular action topics.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d3nGAncF973_pnmDknke8nGL_fMNxuoXmeMRYiH3Abk/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Cheers, Annette AnnetteCSteps (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Annette. Sorry, I am not willing to spend more time working on initiatives to create lists of sources. I cannot justify further investing my volunteer time in a project that seems to be more about spreadsheets than about editing articles. I know your heart is in the right place. I think what Misplaced Pages needs most is for strong researchers and writers like you to edit articles. I could be totally wrong though - maybe someone else here will find this kind of spreadsheet useful enough for their work that they offer to review it. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 21:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Clayoquot. I didn't mean to automatically volunteer you. Just to let you know, the references for WP editors is actually a side part of the deliverable that we are providing. (another side was the climate action Quotables) - and were mostly because we already had the start of a key-articles database to help answer questions from our users and for our writers to refer to, and we thought it might be useful for you all. Learning your standards has been helpful to our writers as well. We tended towards primary science or popular lay articles to pass on to our readers, not secondary overview. So working with you as helped us.

Anyway, the main deliverable is the food/ag climate action article that we've written in my sandbox that I think you may have seen parts of? Now that my main editor is back after 8 months, we're making it more of an encyclopedic tone. We need to doublecheck it against work in WP that's been done in the meantime, but then we can either add it as a page, or more likely, put sections in existing pages. @resilientsage will do that comparison.

In the meantime, anyone else in taking a brief look at the articles? We can just add it as a link to a subpage at the bottom of Recommended Sources. Those who use it great - those who don't, no worries. There's a place for comments and additions, and we'll maintain it. Thanks. AnnetteCSteps (talk) 18:34, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Why are IPCC reports copyright?

Back in June I cut and pasted a bit from an IPCC report into Carbon sequestration and then inadequately tried to paraphrase it. So @Diannaa quite correctly warned me and hid the edits because of https://www.ipcc.ch/copyright/ In 2021 there was a suggestion at https://apps.ipcc.ch/eventmanager/documents/65/240320210608-INF.%206,%20Rev.%203%20-%20Progress%20Report%20-%20TG%20Data.pdf that AR6 be creative commons but I cannot find out why this was not done as a whole not just partly for data and images. Did anyone ever ask the IPCC why the reports are not under the same creative commons licence as Misplaced Pages? If not I will ask (but don’t hold your breath for a reply). Chidgk1 (talk) 18:41, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that would be so much better! (and paraphrasing content from IPCC reports is so hard; I struggle with that all the time) There was a previous discussion on this two years ago, see in the archive here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Climate_change/Archive_2#Petition_to_open_IPCC_6

I also spoke about it with User:Jonathanlynn who made some enquiries with the IPCC secretariat. It was a dead end though. I think they are worried/scared that someone could change the statements and graphs and give them different meaning and results. I think RCraig09 and Efbrazil have worked hard on making many of the IPCC graphs accessible for us by re-creating them from scratch in a way that the new graphs don't infringe copyright. This is a very laudable effort! EMsmile (talk) 09:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Merge or rename Instrumental temperature record?

I've started a discussion on the talk page of Instrumental temperature record: the proposal on the table is to either merge it into global surface temperature or to change its title so that it becomes clearer what's in the article (e.g. to drop the term "record" in the title). The article gets around 140 pageviews per day, tendency is increasing. Pageviews are here. Please join in the brainstorming here if you have time. Thanks! EMsmile (talk) 17:12, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tonlé Sap#Requested move 10 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tonlé Sap#Requested move 10 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 17:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Help the Wikimedia Foundation better understand how on-wiki collaborations work

The Campaigns team at the Wikimedia Foundation is interested in learning from diverse editors that have experience joining and working on WikiProjects, Campaigns, and other kinds of on-wiki collaboration. We need your help:

• Take a survey about your experience with collaborations: with this Google Form
• Share examples of Collaborations or WikiProjects that have worked for you: m:Campaigns/WikiProjects

Whatever input you bring to the two spaces will help us make better decisions about next steps beyond the current tools we support. Astinson (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Request for comment

Should the infobox template for countries be expanded to include greenhouse gas emissions? See the request at Template talk:Infobox country#Request for comment on greenhouse emissions

20WattSphere (talk) 12:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Should soot be merged into black carbon?

So far I have proposed and one person has opposed - I think this is important enough to need more opinions at Talk:Black_carbon#Merge_proposal if you have time Chidgk1 (talk) 12:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

AfD discussion: Climate finance in the United States

There is currently a deletion discussion about this article, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. I have a connection to it so will not be engaging in the discussion, but wanted others to be aware it is happening. FULBERT (talk) 00:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education and Climate Finance

Hi everyone! I'm helping to coordinate an initiative at Wiki Education where we are teaching new editors to write about climate finance. This is includes individuals, organizations, and legislation. It is inspired by the Climate finance article. @Clayoquot raised some important concerns about greenwashing and sources. The intention of this work is to use high quality sources to describe the topics above. I welcome any feedback, suggestions of sources, or support for the editors working on this. I'm not working directly with the editors, but am happy to answer questions. Thanks! Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

That seems a very specific scope to teach new editors to write in. What are the articles it is planned for new editors to be working on, and what articles are being used as their model examples? CMD (talk) 06:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Just to ensure that everyone has the full overview of discussions so far, see also here on the discussion page of the AfD discussion of Climate finance in the United States. My concern was that if we guide new editors to the creation of new articles that are essentially sub-sub-sub articles then we might waste some potential as those kinds of articles usually linger at low pageviews. I think it would be more impactful to flesh out existing articles like the one on climate finance. Or if you want it to be country specific then rather flesh out the existing CCC articles (CCC = climate change in country X). - Overall, it's exciting if Wiki Ed and students/newbies/trainees takes on climate change topics! Do you have a particular funder for this effort? A particular university? EMsmile (talk) 09:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I know WikiEd don’t usually nominate articles for good status because the wait for a reviewer can be long, but if you are hoping to run this initiative for long enough perhaps one editor could nominate climate finance and a later one pick it up if there was too long a wait for a reviewer? Or one editor could nominate it and one more expert in the subject review it? Chidgk1 (talk) 17:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Also quite rightly new editors are discouraged from editing articles already rated good. But as I see I wrote little or nothing about climate finance in climate change in Turkey I will be happy to work with any editor who would like to add such info. Preferably one who knows something about finance, unlike myself. Chidgk1 (talk) 18:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Will for engaging with us and for bringing new potential volunteers! I'm another person who always recommends that new climate editors work on existing articles. It's easier, they learn more, the impact is much higher in terms of pageviews, our existing articles need a lot of updating, and it keeps people out of AfD which saves everyone stress. Another way to look at it is that if an expert is interested in contributing, I like to ask, "What knowledge do you have that you want to share?". I imagine they have deeper subject matter knowledge than is needed to make lists of government/corporate announcements. Can you help us understand what the group's strengths are? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 20:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Questionable charts re greenhouse gas emissions

Pinging @Tom.schulz: User:Tom.schulz (found on LinkedIn and listed as cofounder on his investing company website) is a 40-edit editor who has been placing Chart A in various articles. There has been some discussion at Talk:GHG emissions but Tom.schulz has not participated, probably because he is inactive on Misplaced Pages.

Though the general idea of variable-width bar charts is genius, I think his particular charts (see Wikimedia uploads) are unsuitable. They have far too much detail for most Wiki articles, their fonts are tiny, and they include his name as chart creator, two mentions of his investment company, and a link to that investment company website. (Data source=IEA, which is totally OK)

I generated the Chart B which I think is appropriate in content and form. I'm considering removing charts like Chart A from all instances on en.Misplaced Pages, but I wanted to check here first for consensus, before taking such broad action. —RCraig09 (talk) 20:34, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you and support your proposed removal of those charts. There could be ways how the charts of Tom Schulz could be improved (like taking out all that text below the chart), or perhaps your version is already the improved version, pretty much. I hope he's going to react to your ping because it would be a pity to lose his potential future contributions to Misplaced Pages. (Some of the less experienced editors don't have e-mail notifications turned on and thus never see such a ping. I guess we could reach out to him via his Linkedin page, since he links to it from his Misplaced Pages user profile, maybe (?)). EMsmile (talk) 21:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging this. I removed it from Climate change mitigation. For the places where it is relevant, I suggest editing it to remove the names and the tiny text at the bottom. The tiny text can go in the image description on WIkimedia Commons and/or in the image caption on Misplaced Pages. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:01, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

B is cleaner and easier to understand. You can immediately see text that says rectangle area shows total emissions even in thumbnail format, whereas the writing in A is too small. Bogazicili (talk) 15:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, B is much better. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 15:39, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I also have to add, whenever these annual emissions graphs are used, cumulative emissions should also be taken into account. I find the graphs above to be rather Eurocentric or Western-centric. Emissions in the atmosphere do not get reset every year, they accumulate. Bogazicili (talk) 16:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

This section is about one graphic versus another. Discussing cumulative emission is appropriate at Talk:Greenhouse_gas_emissions#New_graph_too_detailed_for_the_lead?. Briefly, the cumulative-versus-annual-per-person distinction would be very confusing to lay readers (whether or not they knew they are confused). —RCraig09 (talk) 19:59, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done I've basically removed the chart from English-language Misplaced Pages. I understand the concern not to lose future contributions. However, he manages an investment company and his only Wikimedia uploads are five ~annual uploads of updated data. The kind of information that he presents is best presented in list form in existing "List" articles—which is mainly where he placed his chart. —RCraig09 (talk) 04:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Looking for recommendations for writing "Climate change in X country" articles

Hi all

I'm planning on surveying which countries/regions etc do and do not have climate change article e.g Climate change in the United States and then writing some of them. I've seen the list Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Climate_change/Recommended_sources#Country-specific_sources which is very helpful, but does anyone know of any others that might be useful that would provide overviews?

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 11:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Does this Wikiproject have anything like a redlist?

Hi all

I've written about quite a few climate related topics over the years but never really been to this Wikiproject before. I just wanted to ask, is there a list of 'most wanted articles' or a 'redlist' or anything similar? It obviously wouldn't need to be anything as comprehensive as Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Redlist index but a simple page of missing articles would be super helpful. I'm happy to help build one if one doesn't already exist and I've missed it :)

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 12:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)