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• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
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• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Hindu News

Ther are legal and physical threats over at RSn being made (apparently) by representatives of Hindu News ], but they have a fluctuating IP, so is there anything we can do to stop this? Slatersteven (talk) 13:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes please, multiple clear NLT violations. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

These are the IPs that have been used in the discussion: Special:Contributions/47.31.153.39 Special:Contributions/47.31.133.164 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/47.31.153.221. The last one is blocked but needs TPA pulled, too. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

And this ] means it needs to be a perinant block, as this is a direct threat to target WMF staff. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This is not the first time this organisation and it's IPs have been brought to ANI see also - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

And it needs to be applied to every involved IP. Slatersteven (talk) 13:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think perinant is a word, which is a shame because it should be. EEng 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Considering the diff provided by Slatersteven, I blocked the IPs that were clearly identified as employees of the company due to legal threats. I don't think TPA is needed right now, though. Isabelle Belato 14:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There was no LEGAL THREAT. It is a clear and direct caution that aggrieved Hindu Raksha Dal cadres, acting on their own and individually, may physically discipline WMF employees and users in India if there is any abuse or disrespect to our HINDU organization/s and project/s on your web portals - as they have done in the past. WMF Legal and WMF CEO is very well aware of considering the past LITIGATION between our organisations, DMCAs, Office Actions etc. Anyway, what we say here is previously publlshed by us on the ICANN website and can be verified from WMF and also from WP:/LTA. The LTA will show we have unlimited supply of IP addresses, so blocking is a waste of both our times. We suggest you get WMF to impose a GLOBAL BAN on us if they dare. Have a nice day.

Somebody responsible should report this discussion to WIKIMEDIA EMERGENCY email ID also. 47.31.183.210 (talk) 14:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Noting that there also appears to be a threat of physical assault on WMF employees there. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, but it's not like anything they say at is crazy or anything. Stuff like ...

IAC says the present UDRP is grossly biased in favor of trademark holders. The domain name holders are subjected to RDNH akin to the Jews of Europe being eliminated in Auschwitz gas chambers. IAC demands a DENAZIFICATION of ICANN and the UDRP along with its NAZI collaborators like WIPO. It seems WIPO selects their panelists for their stupidity and for strict obedience to follow WIPO's self created gas chamber operation rules. It is no coincidence that WIPO is located in Switzerland where the bulk of the Nazi Gold was stored. IAC shall list out a few of WIPO's tricks to RDNH IAC's domain.

... make perfect sense to me. EEng 14:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Certainly wasn't on my bingo card for today. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

They make extensive use of legal threats directed at individual editors, the WMF, and the Wikimedia India chapter; they also engage in serious harassment, both on- and off-wiki. Whack-a-mole is so tedious, lets smash a few pumpkins instead. 47.31.148.206 (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This may need escalation to a global ban, and maybe more as they are making direct theats, and an outright threat to sock. Slatersteven (talk) 14:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The IP's references to IAC suggest a relation to Misplaced Pages:Long-term abuse/India Against Corruption sock-meatfarm. MrOllie (talk) 15:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. That is correct. I provided the tq to assist you. HINDUNEWS.STREAM is a property of the Hindustan Republican Army (check its Whois). IAC is an affiliate of HRA. The brand name IAC is owned by HRA. The Hindu Raksha Dal and Hindu Rashtra Dal are armed military wings of HRA to protect peaceful/defenceless Hindu religionists in India. Let's have a civilised conversation and ignore the trolls.47.31.162.201 (talk) 15:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

If you want a civilised discussion, stop making threats. And stop wp:socking wait till you block expires and come back without the attitude. Slatersteven (talk) 15:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hindustan Socialist Republican Association? So it very much will not be an RS. Slatersteven (talk) 15:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Coming off of your threat to have your stormtroopers assault WMF staff and Misplaced Pages users if WP doesn't do your bidding, I'd say that civilized discussion has up and left the building. Count me very much in favor of a range block wide enough to chop these IPs down. Ravenswing 21:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Soooo did anyone actually contated WMD about the threats of violence? --Trade (talk) 17:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 18:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Blaxstocatamazon: I'm not sure who you're replying to with this message but please read WP:NOTFORUM. This website's discussion boards aren't meant to be used to list a ton of controversial claims that, if they're not sourced, will never be added to any article. City of Silver 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

While WP:BLPCRIME does not apply here, I have redacted the frankly explosive claims made by Blaxstocatamazon above on the grounds that the accusations made, with no evidence presented, are wholly inapproriate regardless of what the subject is, and because the edit itself implicates multiple CTops. IP editor: Anything said specifically to attempt to intimidate other editors into compliance is generally grounds for a block (if not for it being a legal threat, then because you are attempting to force article content). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v 18:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Did anyone besides EEngs read through the link EEngs provided? The comments are pure insanity. It talks about assassination, for God's sake. For editing an encyclopedia? This goes beyond legal threats. I'm surprised that there was no response from ICANN as it was posted on their website. To me, it matters whether IAC is an actual organization or just the rantings of one crazy, zealous person. Liz 01:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• This was an earlier warning about this group, Hindu Raksha Dal. Hard to know how much is real and how much is exaggeration to attempt to intimidate. Liz 03:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I tried to tell earlier but got deleted. (Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 11:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

In mitigation, they're nice to bovines. EEng 13:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

How about buildings with windows? But yes, bulk of the Nazi Gold was stored there, wasn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Nice storyline. But it's clear that you are related to this LTA in some way as noted before on your talkpage by me long ago . - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The medical NGO I advice sometimes uses their assistance in certain places of India to operate safely, as also their networks in goverment when needed for advocacy or governmetal action. eg like 2024 Kolkata rape/murder. So something about their storyline is known. Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 15:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

You were essentially repeating same claims about filing a report with the national task force for doctor safety/Supreme court as the IPs of hindu rashtra dal did on the talkpage of Kolkata rape incident. Making legal threats on the same page also led to your block. I have no doubts that you are related to them in some way, given how the first thing you did after getting unblocked is comment in this thread. - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Col. Rajendra Singh Dalvi who claims to be secular and liberal - The links you cited all points to the opposite of what you wrote, are you trolling? - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Aaaaaand I've redacted the new claims for the same reason I redacted the old, plus a dash of blatant BLP violations. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v 20:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The only partially veiled threats of violence are among the most alarming things I've ever seen on Misplaced Pages. Simonm223 (talk) 21:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Holy shit... Tavantius (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't worry -- it's really just these guys . EEng 22:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll just mention this related ANI discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#SumoAvocado is seeking to intimidate a long term admin. The editor who came to my user talk page asked me not just to remove this discussion (and other discussions of Hindu News) but to revision delete all edits that made up the discussion. That account has been blocked. But I have the feeling that they will be back. Liz 05:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I am kind of wondering if it would be wise to advise the WMF of the threats of physical violence that have occurred within this conflict. Simonm223 (talk) 18:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Of course it would. It would also be a good idea to inform them that various people feel empowered to make such threats by the WMF's seeming willingness to roll over in the Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation case. I'm sure we'll see much more of this. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Is the any more than this we can actually do, just be vigilant? Slatersteven (talk) 11:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

These accounts should be globally locked, to make it clear that we don't tolerate any of this anywhere on Wikimedia. I submitted a few on m:Steward requests/Global. Yann (talk) 22:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) 47.31.186.213 (talk) 06:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like we have another. At this stage just socking.Slatersteven (talk) 13:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No edits outside of the ENWP. Just re-report if those blocked accounts have activity on other projects. Ahri Boy (talk) 00:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Possible block evasion by sockpuppet User:MaralagoPawn

• Special:Contributions/83.6.206.183 blocked for 1 month for block evasion by Special:Contributions/Meellk (still blocked) on 9 October 2024 Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168#Possible_block_evasion_by_83.6.206.183
• Special:Contributions/MaralagoPawn created on 9 November 2024, immediately proceeds to continue same pattern of edits on Poland -- Svito3 (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm negating these accusations. This is my first account on Misplaced Pages. I have run over sources and what's in them on several pages already, such as Angela Merkel. The sources listed for Poland being a semi-presidential system simply don't match up, except for 1. Mr. Maralago pawn (talk) 22:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  How would new Misplaced Pages user use same arguments that WP:Consensus is a math equasion/vote and doesn't involve consensus building?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=List_of_countries_by_system_of_government&diff=prev&oldid=1249401895

  https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Poland&diff=prev&oldid=1257166072

  Not to mention specifically describing one source as outdated and pushing Encyklopedia PWN source e.g. "Polish source". It's unlikely. Svito3 (talk) 23:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I agree that this user does look like yet another sockpuppet of Urabura/Galehautt. All accounts ran by this person sooner or later come to the Poland article and get into an edit war over some detail in it. NicolausPrime (talk) 23:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  Also of note is that, rather conveniently, an anon recently appeared and made the exact same kind of edits to various pages related to Poland – including, you guessed it, semi-presidential -> parliamentary on Politics of Poland, with the edit summary stating "removed outdated/faulty sources". Very similar to what MaralagoPawn stated on their edits related to Poland.

  I will not jump to conclusions, but this looks suspicious. LVDP01 (talk) 19:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  That anon is me. Just aligning with the Poland page. It's permitted to not be logged in at all times. Instead of calling me names, acknowledge the sources' faultiness. Mr. Maralago pawn (talk) 20:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Um? I just went over the source listed on the Polish wikipedia (where the system of the country is described as parliamentary) and, as any reasonable editor, checked out the discussion on Talk. And after revising the sources placed on the page, I found all of them except for 1 to be faulty. I had to remove them. Is anything abnormal? I'm trying to stick to the rules as a new user. Mr. Maralago pawn (talk) 00:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Personal attacks and disruptive behavior from Lgnxz

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

For some context on the situation, on November 9, User:Lgnxz began a large-scale removal of the term "J-31" from the Shenyang J-35 article on the grounds that it was a "misnomer" (see this group of 14 edits). While this assessment is partially true in the case of the prototype, which is officially designated FC-31 and was sometimes called "J-31" by western media, this does not extend to at least one enlarged variant of the aircraft promoted by manufacturer Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and the Chinese state media known as the "J-31B". I confronted Lgnxz about this misconception on November 10, but Lgnxz repeatedly insisted that the video released by the aircraft's manufacturer, promoted by the Chinese media, and heavily analyzed by western media was somehow a mistake, citing nothing but WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and the fallacious argument that the revelation of the J-35 designation disproves the existence of the enlarged J-31B which had already been confirmed by Chinese state media (, , , , , , ). I repeatedly asked for reliable sources confirming that the J-31B and J-35 were the same variant, but only got more WP:OR and claims that that the sources were already in the article (I was unable to find any such sources in the article). On top of that, Lgnxz dropped several personal attacks, first calling me an "avid wikipedia fundamentalist" and then saying that I was "clearly unwell". After I warned them about the second attack, they responded with this confusing, dare I say trolling comment.

Earlier today, an IP removed sourced information about the J-31B from the article. I of course asked Lgnxz if it was them, to which they responded that "your paranoia would be very amusing for months to come". Given the repeated WP:IDNHT behavior and personal attacks, I think this is a case of WP:NOTHERE. - ZLEA _T\ 00:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

ZLEA, this is clearly primarily a content dispute. Has this been discussed on the article talk page? Can you provide a link to any discussion? Liz 03:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Liz This is primarily about the attacks and the disruptive behavior, not the dispute itself. I included details about the dispute as it gives context to the actual problem. - ZLEA _T\ 04:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

"I of course asked Lgnxz if it was them" And what would be your reason for accusing me? A baseless prejudice of course, given that despite the clear personal difference between us, I didn't do any petty vandalism or edit war in the J-35 page with you or any other people on any page, nor do I want to 'troll' you by extending this overextended topic any longer; I've said what I need to say about the J-31B. It just seems very ironic how you're accusing me for being 'disruptive' given how you try to accuse me without evidence that I use different IP to 'stealth edit' the J-31B section from the J-35, and with further attempt to escalate the matter to an Admin. Lgnxz (talk) 05:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

If you didn't want an escalation, you should have stopped your personal attacks at the final warning, or better yet never made any attacks to begin with. I also made no accusations of sockpuppetry, I only asked if you were the IP based on a reasonable suspicion (not "baseless prejudice") since the IP performed an edit similar to one you made only a few days ago. It wouldn't have been the first time I caught such sockpuppetry, especially after the original account had supposedly dropped the subject. - ZLEA _T\ 06:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

"Editing while logged out can be considered sockpuppetry if used inappropriately. If it was you, please don't do it again."

That sounds pretty accusatory to me. But please, keep bringing this up personally to me and about me instead of having a talk page in the J-35 page on the J-31B as mentioned by the admin. That'll truly show how disruptive and escalatory I am instead of vice versa, right? Lgnxz (talk) 07:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd be glad to have such a discussion on the article's talk page, but not with someone who throws around personal attacks as freely as you have these last few days. - ZLEA _T\ 07:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, Lgnxz and ZLEA, if everyone can agree on no personal attacks or passive aggressive comments, can this discussion move to the article talk page? I've found when two editors are in a dispute like this, it really helps to get other knowledgeable editors to participate in the discussion so it's not a "me vs. you" situation. How about we try to move forward? Liz 08:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I can agree to that. - ZLEA _T\ 08:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

And you, Lgnxz? Liz 00:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Sure Lgnxz (talk) 03:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Then go forth and discuss! With civility. And I hope not to see a return trip to ANI. Liz 08:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Upd Edit - project sock?

Upd Edit (talk · contribs)

This account has no edits beyond the open letter talk page and offer nothing constructive. I think this is a project sock. I seek a block on the account as such. I would considered myself being WP:INVOLVED given my participation in related discussions. The account has been notified. – robertsky (talk) 09:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

This diff Sounds like something an admin with very specific skills may be able to deal with. @Smartse do you think you'd be able to help out? Am _(Notes) 09:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean. SmartSE (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

What leads you to the conclusion that this is a sock, rather than, for example, someone who has been editing unregistered but has decided to register in order to comment on that talk page? Phil Bridger (talk) 09:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a possibility that an unregistered editor registering an account to comment on the page, but the likelihood would be low in my opinion. The open letter is publicised mainly to registered editors via the the watchlist notice. The talk page isn't restricted in any manner so anyone can comment, even when unregistered. – robertsky (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

As an IP editor I can say I saw this the same day it was created, it was very attention grabbing with all the people editing, no watchlist needed. I see now that Phil Bridger announced the open letter at the village pump too, afterwards. That is to say, this is not some obscure thing (not that you claimed it was).

Here is a question: if this is the sock of someone, IP or not, would it not be a valid reason for creating a single sock(privacy)? – 2804:F1...F5:391A (::/32) (talk) 16:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

This strikes me as a valid type of sock account? -- asilvering (talk) 16:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

If it is unregistered editor trying to shield their IP addrees, sure. But if it is a registered editor? How so? WP:PROJSOCK only allow project sock accounts if the discussion affects their account directly. The issue, the court case, at hand affects only three editors. It may not be beneficial of them to participate in the discussions in any manner as we already have seen that the plaintiff's lawyers had tried to bring in last minute arguments such one of the three editors participating in the open letter and paint everyone here in unfavourable light. Any claims that this case will affect one's privacy of others in the future is WP:CRYSTAL as it is open ended at the moment. – robertsky (talk) 18:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I would say that responding to an open letter on a sensitive political subject would be a legit sock in the spirit of "privacy" (and maybe "security"), and the fact that the discussion has hundreds of participants means that the negative effects of a project sock are vastly reduced. I'd change my position on that if they were obviously tag-teaming with a regular account, or if they were trying to dominate the discussion in some way. -- asilvering (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Without knowing whose sock they are, there is not much to be done here unless a Checkuser drops by and decides they should investigate. But I don't see this editor's 5 edits as being disruptive and warranting a block. They might be an SPA and just be interested in this court case but but being an SPA doesn't violate any policies. Many of our current editors started off as SPAs and grew to be interested in other subjects as their skills improved.

But there is another case brought to ANI (see below) about suspicions of editors participating in this discussion about this WMF mess and what POV they might be pushing. Liz 00:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This may not be “dominating the conversation” but it does have some features in common. (On the other hand they haven’t edited in more than a day, so this is probably moot.) 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This complaint seems related to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Users TracyVaghmare91 and Hemacho328wsa are NOTHERE right below this one. I was just reviewing the Open Letter talk page, to try to answer a question for ACE2024, and I noticed a number of brand new accounts stirring things up there. I'd say, let's see if this behavior continues into this week and then see if it still needs to be addressed. Liz 06:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikimicky1, Armenian genocide denial, personal attacks, disregard of Wiki policies, WP:BLOCKEVASION

Wikimicky1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Wikimicky1 has not only engaged in several attacks despite being told no to, they have also disregarded our policies. This includes openly admitting that they don't care about this site and that they were blocked for being a sock of indeffed Armenian genocide denier User:Ungitow, while simultaneously denying the Armenian genocide.

They said this in one of their first edits on 7 May 2022: Hi, apparently I have been blocked along with user:Ungitow. Some donkeys (admins) thought I was associated with the editor. Hilarious. These admins are lowly cowards and they surely don’t care about justice or the truth. I don’t care about Misplaced Pages a bit anymore. They can block me as much as they like. They can’t silence me in the real world! No, I don’t believe in the so-called Armenian massacres also referred to as by another name. Call it denial. It never happened the way propagators say it did. The truth shall not be silenced. Peace.

Personal attacks:

• 14 July 2022: No dear, your answer is clear evidence you are ideologically biased. Who is Cambridge? Are they the final say on religious subjects? So a source is considered reliable le by you if it’s published by Oxford or Harvard. I see. Hmm, most of Misplaced Pages is garbage then, according to your flawed logic. Anyway, you probabablu don’t speak Turkish. Chances are you’re just a pro-Persian person living in the West. No I’m not personally attacking you. I’m just saying things as they are. Your profile is enough to show how partial you are.

• 11 November 2024 If some pro-Iranians want to push the agenda...

• 12 November 2024 But one of those I referred to is definitely you and your actions. Please apply the same standards to your own editing and stop being biased and your POV editing. Thank you. (the first line refers to the previous attack a day earlier)

Keeps disregarding (WP:IDHT, WP:TENDENTIOUS) the plethora of WP:RS and WP:CONSENSUS based on it regarding the ethnicity of al-Biruni, resorting to edit warring and openly disregarding it in the articles talk page . --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I am a bit surprised to see this on the verge of being auto-archived. Am I missing something here? I tried to make the report as reader friendly as possible. Wikimicky1 literally openly admitted to being blocked for socking as an Armenian genocide denialist, while simultaneously denying the Armenian genocide, i.e. WP:BLOCKEVASION. HistoryofIran (talk) 04:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I guess an admin didn't see it? 172.99.146.47 (talk) 06:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not associated with the other user/editor. The above allegations hold no truth. HistoryofIran is trying to frame me because he could not deal with my logical argument and the reliable sources I provided. See Talk:Al-Biruni. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimicky1 (talk • contribs) 07:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment : Anybody who takes a look at the talk page of Wikimicky1 may see a wall of warnings, this editor is all but a net positive to this project, support indef as per WP:NOTHERE.---Wikaviani 09:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• This is a difficult situation. The behavior of the editor was clearly not exemplary, and they had a bunch of warnings at their talk page. However, in the Al Biruni episode, when they were pointed out to the RfC they stopped edit-warring. They have never been blocked, and imo in this situation blocking indef only makes sense per WP:NOTHERE - and while they clearly exhibit indications of NOTHERE, they are here not only to push pro-Turkic POV, but also to make positive contribution. (I can not comment on the statement that they are a sock of blocked user, the best is probably to open a SPI - if they are a sock they of course need to be blocked). More appropriately, one would start with short blocks and escalating them, eventually to an indefinite block - but blocking for the Al Biruni episode would look like punishment at this point. Every admin if welcome to disagree with me, but I think the only reasonable course of action is to wait whether this behavior comes back, and, if yes, block. I will add their talk page to my watchlist and see whether I can this myself (though I am generally busy these days in real life).--Ymblanter (talk) 09:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks Ymblanter. Unfortunately the SPI will probably come out stale, since it was two years ago. I had already mentioned the RFC twice to Wikimicky1 , only to be met with insults and edit warring, which wasn't the first time they've done that. Heck, even right now in this very thread they're saying that "above allegations hold no truth." and "he could not deal with my logical argument and the reliable sources I provided." showing that they haven't learned anything. This user is WP:NOTHERE imo. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe they had some few "positive contribution", but this editor is all but a net positive to this project. Another case of WP:NOTHERE.---Wikaviani 13:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Personal attacks, edit war in contentious topic

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CmsrNgubane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Special:GoToComment/c-CmsrNgubane-20241115171700-Manyareasexpert-20241115135300 personal attacks - Your responses are clearly emotional, you refuse to accept the reality, This is a classic display of cognitive dissonance, your bias really blind you this much

Some kind of threats? I really wanted to avoid being aggressive but it seems this is the only language you'll will understand. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 17:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit war: adds contested content , pushes it with edit war claiming "vandalism", again , adds WP:TASS, removes no relevance tag. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 18:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Partial blocked indefinitely from BRICS, as this seems to be the main locus of the disruptive editing. However, looking back through their contributions, I'm not sure if this will be enough to stop the disruption. I'm considering this a normal admin block, though it does seem to arguably fall under CTOP/EE.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

SarekOfVulcan, you might consider extending this partial block to Talk:BRICS as this is where personal attacks are happening. Liz 00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm waiting to see what happens when he next edits. If anyone sees the need to broaden the block before then, I don't mind. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I apologize for losing my temper yesterday, I think I was frustrated that nobody was willing to hear my point of view, nonetheless I admit now that I went out of line with some of my responses and I deeply regret that. I just want to appeal directly to you to reverse the block as I am deeply passionate about the BRICS project and I believe I can contribute a lot to the article for years to come.

Best wishes CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to express my deepest of apologies, I regret losing my composure in that manner. CmsrNgubane (talk) 05:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been doing some thinking and I've realised that I owe you nor any another stranger on this platform no explanation, if you don't like my factual editing then the problem lies with you, claim personal attacks all you want, it changes nothing, the truth is universal, live with it. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

After taking time to think about this clearly, I've decided to withdraw my request to be unblocked because I know that I will end up in another battle because I do not cower to any man , I fight for what I believe in and do so feverishly and it's a trait of mine that I am proud of, therefore I will not change my personality for anonymous people on Misplaced Pages and if this statement that I've just made earns me a total block then I am prepared for that, infact I've just realised that I've been wasting precious time guarding articles for what reason actually?, it's been good being part of the community for awhile but it's now time for me dedicate my free time on endeavours that actually pay money. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Also noting edit-warring at Cape independence with bizarre summaries. Borgenland (talk) 01:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Good morning sir, I just want to take this time to clarify the contentions on the Cape independence article, I believe that it is correct to classify the group as a separatist organisation since it seeks to break apart from South Africa, furthermore I would like to inequivacally stress that none of my edits are made with the intentions of disrupting, I make the edits based on approved citations, I have recently developed a passion for editing and I want to help contribute to making Misplaced Pages better for the reader.

Kind regards CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been doing some thinking and I've realised that I owe you nor any another stranger on this platform no explanation, if you don't like my factual editing then the problem lies with you, claim personal attacks all you want, it changes nothing, the truth is universal, live with it. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Everything I said is true and factual, you are just soft as hell, yes this is a personal attack, now go cry to Mommy and Daddy and tell them to block me completely. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Request granted. Sitewide indef block. —C.Fred (talk) 06:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/CmsrNgubane. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 12:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Please also block the range of obvious IP socks editing BRICS (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I protected the page to start with. Ymblanter (talk) 15:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

156.146.153.231

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nearly all edits of 156.146.153.231 (talk · contribs) were reverted. Plenty of warnings, was blocked for 31h. Time to take a closer look. --Altenmann >talk 00:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

BrocadeRiverPoems behavioral issues

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am making this report because I recently found this post (found by searching up the username of the user in question), where the suspicious editing patterns of this user was brought up in a similarly contentious article with another user complaining about the exact same patterns of hostility and dogpiling: . This report was made through the lens of someone involved in the article 15.ai, so if anyone who was involved in the maintenance of the article Yasuke could chime in, that would be very much appreciated.

The user User:BrocadeRiverPoems has demonstrated a clear pattern of editing that prioritizes ideological alignment over adherence to Misplaced Pages's core policies, including neutrality, reliable sourcing, and civility. In multiple contentious discussions, such as those surrounding the articles on Yasuke and 15.ai, has engaged in aggressive and accusatory behavior that discourages meaningful collaboration among editors. Their edits often involve the use of unreliable sources or misrepresentation of reliable sources or deletion of sources they deem unreliable, which are then used to support their preferred narratives (, , ). These actions have not only disrupted the editing process but have also led to a hostile environment on talk pages, alienating other contributors and stalling productive dialogue ("I suggest stepping back and seeing how presumptuous (and frankly alienating) your comments are. You’ve crafted an elaborate theory about coordinated editing and suspicious motives based solely on contribution patterns. Not every editor needs to be constantly active to make valid contributions, and returning to defend an article I reviewed from deletion is perfectly natural. Occam’s Razor applies here, and I hope anyone else who reads this can see it for themselves as well." from Misplaced Pages:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1). Anyone who dares to disagree with this user are met with harsh accusations and hounding, and despite being a relatively new user to Misplaced Pages themselves, the user is happy to scrutinize the editing patterns of anyone who isn't active on Misplaced Pages 24/7 ("With all due respect, your continued penchant of vanishing from Misplaced Pages and returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual." from Misplaced Pages:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1; "It is not, frankly, presumptuous or absurd to suspect something is suspicious about an editor who erroneously assesses 2 articles as good, one of which is full of copyvio, and then disappears for an extended amount of time and returns only to defend this article." from the same page, "Whether you yourself were involved in the coordination is immaterial, my point is that because there was demonstrable coordination it is not unreasonable to view your assesment, disappearance, and return solely to defend the article, subsequent re-disappearance, and subsequent re-return to defend the article"). (see: the entire discussion at Misplaced Pages:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1 and Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#15.ai_behavioral_issues. where I and several other users were accused of single-purpose editing by BrocadeRiverPoems). Hypocritcally, they consistently spend a great deal of time and effort dissecting the verbiage of every editor that disagrees with them down to every individual word, but are also happy to offer circumstantial evidence to support their argument, such as accusations of off-wiki coordination ("The AfD for the article was interfered with by WP:SPA vote-stuffing", "Yes, RocketKnightX and HackerKnownAs are tag-teaming to keep the article against consensus.", "Coupled with demonstrable evidence of off-site coordination in editing the article on 4chan (which is demonstrable in the archived 4chan thread used as a source in the article) and the apparent failure of the WP:DRN and the continued edit warring by User:RocketKnightX and WP:OWNBEHAVIOR from User:HackerKnownAs, I am raising this concern to the Admin Noticeboard." from Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#15.ai_behavioral_issues. and "See Editor Interaction Analyzer on 15.ai. This is insanely quick, and is a sign of co-ordination." despite my insistence that I have never participated in off-wiki manipulation). For example, they stress that they have "pointed out numerous flaws with the article, and corrected many of them", and yet were happy to make edits that unashamedly violate WP:YESPOV like , which I had to edit (before my edit was eventually reverted).

Several people have been affected by this user's hostile behavior, myself included ("I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Misplaced Pages, planning to never to come back." from this very thread). Their confrontational approach to editing and discussion has created an intimidating atmosphere that discourages constructive dialogue ("As for some mysterious "circle of sockpuppetry", bullshit.") and the condescending attitude towards those who take breaks in between editing Misplaced Pages (" Which is to say, you made few edits after you assesed the article and then you left for 6 months and returned only for the AfD and then departed again.") does not help at all, and violates WP:DEADLINE. For instance, in my interactions with them, I was met with accusatory language and baseless claims of single-purpose editing, despite my efforts to engage respectfully and in accordance with Misplaced Pages policies. Other editors have similarly expressed frustration with this user’s tendency to dismiss opposing views outright and escalate disagreements into personal attacks or relentless scrutiny of editing patterns.

Furthermore, it was brought to my attention in Misplaced Pages:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1 that this user possibly belongs to a Discord server that has been allegedly coordinating off-wiki efforts to influence the content and direction of certain articles for months, including 15.ai. This raises serious concerns about violations of Misplaced Pages’s policy on COI and potential breaches of neutrality and good faith editing, especially with IP users like 180.129.92.142 suddenly coming out of the woodwork and virulently attacking me and throwing several serious accusations at me.

To summarize, editors have expressed that the user in question has violated the following Misplaced Pages policies:

• WP:GOODFAITH
  • "You've crafted an elaborate theory about coordinated editing and suspicious motives based solely on contribution patterns"
  • Made accusations about single-purpose editing without evidence
  • Claimed "The AfD for the article was interfered with by WP:SPA vote-stuffing"
• WP:CIVIL
  • Made hostile and condescending responses that led one user to say "I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Misplaced Pages, planning to never to come back"
  • Created an environment on multiple discussion pages where editors felt their contributions were viewed with suspicion just because they took breaks or haven't contributed to Misplaced Pages as much as the editor in question
• WP:HOUND
  • Followed and criticized specific editors' break patterns: "With all due respect, your continued penchant of vanishing from Misplaced Pages and returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual"
  • Continuously questioned others' editing motives
• WP:DEADLINE
  • Criticized editors for taking breaks: "you made few edits after you assessed the article and then you left for 6 months"
  • Used breaks as evidence of suspicious behavior: "returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual"
  • Questioned legitimacy of contributions based on activity patterns
• WP:NPOV
  • Made edits that blatantly violate WP:NPOV (e.g. )
  • Misrepresented sources to support preferred narratives
• WP:RS
  • Deleted sources they personally deemed unreliable
  • Misrepresented reliable sources to support their preferred narratives
  • Deleted a number of sources used in the article (not all sources must be perfectly neutral; see WP:BIASEDSOURCES, which says "However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject.") and then claimed that the subject did not meet notability — Preceding unsigned comment added by HackerKnownAs (talk • contribs) 07:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Possible WP:SOCK and WP:COI manipulations
  • Allegations of off-wiki coordination with IP users (via Discord or elsewhere)
  • Allegations of sockpuppeting on an unrelated article but with similar behavioral complaints raised by other editors (see ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HackerKnownAs (talk • contribs) 07:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have never made a report like this before on Misplaced Pages, so I do not know if this is the proper way to do this. I have always attempted to be cordial when interacting with editors on Misplaced Pages. I have also tried to always assume good faith, and I am hoping that this incident can be resolved. Thank you for your time, and I hope to continue contributing to Misplaced Pages. HackerKnownAs (talk) 04:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This, of course, completely disregards the fact that most editors agree with BrocadeRiverPoems's edits. 180.129.92.142 (talk) 04:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

You know @HackerKnownAs, you haven't participated I can't find any traces of you in this RFC, which took place at the bottom of the page. This RFC has been up since 4th of November , and the discussion whether 15.ai should be in the past tense is since 7th of November. At least discuss there before reverting other editors consensus. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥 13:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Even @BrocadeRiverPoems has discussed there, why haven't you done that too? 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥 13:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Admins please ban HackerKnownAs! Its so obvious his edits are only to make trouble. Andthewinnerisme (talk) 04:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I wasn't even aware that an RFC was up, let alone know what an RFC was. I apologize for my ignorance, but I've largely stayed away from Misplaced Pages politics in favor of making edits that I believe contribute to the betterment of Misplaced Pages. HackerKnownAs (talk) 17:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@HackerKnownAs: Firstly, you are required to notify the user you are reporting on their talk page, using the template provided at the top of this page.

Secondly, can you explain this edit where you appear to further an edit war in order to make a point?

Thirdly, can you explain why Wikipediocracy is being used as "evidence", both here and in the previous diff? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  04:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I have never made a report like this before, so I was not aware of the first point. I will make that notification after I finish writing this.

For the second point, I was under the assumption that being bold and making changes yourself was encouraged on Misplaced Pages, as per WP:BOLD. Again, I am sorry if this was seen as furthering an edit war; that was not my intention. My intention was to revert the article back to a stable point before all of the edit warring occurred.

For the third point, I am not using it as evidence, but as supplemental material. I was not aware of this forum before I found this discussion, and I found it interesting and relevant that the exact same complaints that I and various other editors have had about this user were restated in this forum. HackerKnownAs (talk) 05:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Having taken a look at the talk page and the edit history of 15.ai, you are repeatedly restoring your preferred version against the consensus of multiple other editors, who have complained about this behaviour on the talk page.

I'll be blunt; this looks like a retaliatory, frivolous report full of WP:ASPERSIONS and I'd suggest to the admins that this be closed quickly with a WP:BOOMERANG. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  05:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Special:Permalink/1257688676#15.ai behavioral issues., filed by BRP, may be relevant background to this filing. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

HackerKnownAs, each one of your many accusations has to be accompanied by a "diff" or edit illustrating an example of the behavior you are identifying or this report could be seen as casting aspersions. Evidence, not just suspicions, have to be present in a report. Also, if you have evidence of misbehavior in an off-Misplaced Pages platform, please send it to the Arbitration Committee, there are privacy concerns that make it inappropriate to be shared here. Liz 05:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Without commenting on the underlying merits of this either way, I am pretty sure that everything here just had a whole ArbCom case about it. As such I'd support quick closing this as moot: if you go through a whole case where you were a party without sanctions, I don't think that bringing that same person to ANI right after for the same behavior is appropriate. Loki (talk) 05:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I might be a little sensitive to the whole "retaliatory-report-based-on-old-evidence" thing right now, but I'd think that alone should merit a BOOMERANG here. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  05:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

In the previous discussion, the editor who posted in the AN was advised to bring it over to AN/I. I apologize if this was not appropriate – I was not aware. HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm the admin that stated that ANI was a more appropriate noticeboard for this level of specific complaints than the discussion that was started at AN which I closed. But, as I said, you need to start adding diffs soon to support your accusations or this could backfire on you. It's a risk of posting a complaint on a noticeboard that all parties are under scrutiny. Liz 06:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have added my diffs. I apologize again for not following the appropriate formatting for this report. I will continue to edit to bring some more context. HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

HackerKnownAs, I feel like I'm throwing a lot of advice at you tonight but it is really distracting to editors who are approaching this case with fresh eyes to have so much content BOLDED. Using Bold or Italics can be used for highlighting an individual word but having half of your comments in Bold font will just turn readers off. It's a little overwhelming. Liz 06:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I apologize, but I attempted to follow the same formatting style as in the last AN report, where the relevant quotes were formatted differently from the original text. Is there an easier way to do this? HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Consider {{tq|q=y|Quote goes here...}} which renders as Quote goes here... EducatedRedneck (talk) 14:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for posting this. To User:GhostOfDanGurney and User:Liz, I’m one of the many editors that BrocadeRiverPoems has accused of single-purpose editing by scouring through my edit history and ignoring my contributions because I took a break in my Misplaced Pages editing months ago. I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Misplaced Pages, planning to never to come back. It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others, and I’m not surprised that the GA thread was brigaded by her cronies. Even if no decision is made here, I hope that my statement brings some context to the situation and explains that this isn’t just User:HackerKnownAs posting out of retaliation, it’s all of us affected by it behind it. ~~ SirGallantThe4th (talk) 05:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Once again, SirGallantThe4th, you have to provide diffs to support these claims of bad conduct. Other editors have to be able to review them to see if there is a basis to your allegations. Liz 06:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1

I suggest you read this please. This whole page is chock full of BRP saying that my GA approval was illegitimate because of my contribution history. Why would a Wikipedean already taking a break due to personal life issues want to come back after reading that their contributions are meaningless because they weren’t making enough edits? It’s especially weird when someone goes through my history to try and prove my motives were evil. Bullying doesn’t have to be via name calling, it can be as simple as being cast as suspicious just because someone with more power or influence says so. ~~ SirGallantThe4th (talk) 07:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

SirGallantThe4th, Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/15.ai/1 was chock-ful of strange accusations about off-wiki collusions, I think if an admin had seen this, they would have shut this down before it went so far. First, I think you are mistaken that this editor has power and influence as they are a relatively new editor although they do have all of the terminology down. I'd just advise you that if someone is making unfounded allegations against you, don't feel like you have to spend your time on the project defending yourself. Explaining yourself can be useful in discussions like this one on ANI but this page was a review of an article, not an examination on the motives of the editors who worked on it and this discussion went completely off-the-rails.

I will say though that it is very unusual for an editor with your level of experience to be doing GA reviews. How did you find yourself in this area of the project? Liz 07:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Given my suspicions have apparently been proven correct, can this be put to rest? User:SirGallantThe4th admits in their block appeal that they know HackerKnownAs and have even met up in person. My suspicions about the GA assessment were, as it turns out, completely warranted. They also admit in their unblock request to essentially orchestrating harassment against me simply because they thought it was unfair that other editors were agreeing with me. They specifically mention in their appeal that they were apart of a Discord together. It is not possible that an article submitted and primarily written by HackerKnownAs which was reviewed, evidently, by their friend SirGallantThe4th, to be neutrally reviewed and assessed as Good. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 23:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to ask, very politely, how you even came upon this ANI Discussion about me before even I did? It was posted 04:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC) and you joined the conversation at 05:51, 16 November 2024. You were not, to my understanding mentioned directly in the complaint, nor were you notified on your TalkPage about it (you very well should have been, but then, so should I have been, and some other individuals as well). I'm just confused by it, I suppose, since you stated that I had made you feel so bullied that you logged out of Misplaced Pages, planning to never to come back. Given that you surely had 0 knowledge that there was going to be an ANI complaint posted about me, and you've never participated at ANI before, I'm just unsure as to how you go from never logging in again to happening upon an ANI discussion about me? Of course, you're totally free to complain about whatever conduct of mine you feel is egregious, I fully encourage and support it. As I said in my post below, I apologize if you feel that I bullied you, and I struck through the relevant comments. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I will state that the reporting user is currently using WPO in an edit dif for a reversion. Moreover, the WPO evidence that is being used against me is essentially a duplicate of an attack page which was G10'd which pretty grossly misrepresents my activity on Yasuke at large. It's so much so of a misrepresentation of my activity that I didn't even warrant a Finding of Facts on the ARBCOM case at Yasuke Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke/Proposed_decision. My apologies for the length of my reply, but there is a lot of ground to cover in the accusations.

Regarding Sources

Their accusations against me here include a statement Their edits often involve the use of unreliable sources or misrepresentation of reliable sources or deletion of sources they deem unreliable, which are then used to support their preferred narratives. The offending sources I removed were mostly deemed unreliable by consensus, were WP:SPS, or were misrepresented. For instance, the wording of the article currently reads Lauren Morton of Rock, Paper, Shotgun and Natalie Clayton of PCGamer called it "fascinating,", however, reading the sources they don't actually say that. Lauren Morton actually says Machine learning is absolutely fascinating and, as I mentioned, doesn't mention 15.Ai specifically in terms of "fascinating", while Natalie Clayton says It's all very fascinating to read about.

Andrew Ng's The Batch was declared an unreliable source when 15.ai was still a draft. Gwern describes itself as someone's personal website they use to remind themselves of stuff. I'm hardly the only editor that has found issues with the content of 15.ai.

SPA Explanation

where I and several other users were accused of single-purpose editing by BrocadeRiverPoems

By myself, an others, historically, even. And, as indicated by your edit history as I linked in the Admin Noticeboard. The only reason I even brought this to the Admin Noticeboard initially is because of the blatant WP:STONEWALLING. Consensus was reached about issues regarding the article and you continue to ignore said consensus and make reverts to your preferred version. In our exchange, I reverted your reversion of an edit that had been developed as a DRN solution to a content dispute and after your second revert in that exchange, I stopped.

Discord Accusation

As for the accusations leveraged against me elsewhere that I'm on some discord trying to get 15.ai deleted, there's no reality or merit to that statement. I came upon 15.ai browsing random articles, saw that an edit war was transpiring, and started noticing peculiarities about the article and made note of them and fixed what I could about the article. Notably, BrocadeRiverPoems is an identity that I use exclusively for Misplaced Pages and nothing regarding my Discord or my life outside of Misplaced Pages can be linked to my editing of Misplaced Pages. The most I will reveal about my real life is that I had a roommate who attended the same MA Program as I, and my former roommate would edit on Misplaced Pages. Said information is fully disclosed on my profile. Said roommate moved out, and I haven't really spoken to them since. As I have freely admitted elsewhere, I was an IP Editor for a time, and I made the account so I could make a post regarding the historical usage of the word "sayamaki" when editors were translating the mention of Yasuke being given a sayamaki.

Hounding Accusation

by scouring through my edit history and ignoring my contributions because I took a break in my Misplaced Pages editing months ago

Scouring through your edit history is a bit of an exaggeration. When I was looking at the Good Article Assessment after I found several problems with the article, I looked at the edit history of the Good Article Review process and discovered that you had only assessed one other article, and that that article had been deleted for copyvio. It isn't scouring your edit history to see and note that you assessed the article, that you left, and that you were specifically canvassed back for the AfD and returned to vote keep at the AfD. All of that is on a singular page of edit history.

Brigading Allegations

It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others, and I’m not surprised that the GA thread was brigaded by her cronies.

I am unaware that I have such sway over anyone?

It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others

Again, these are false accusations that originate from a user who got blocked after harassing myself and others.

AfD SPA Evidence

As for my claims that the AfD was interfered with by SPA Vote Stuffing, it plainly was. . These individuals had limited activity on Misplaced Pages usually only editing 15.ai or 15.ai's competitors before voting Keep in the AfD and then disappearing from the site. One account is even named "Throwaway" indicating it was created for the specific purpose of voting in the AfD. Considering your participation in an AfD to delete NovelAI which was put up for deletion by an account similarly named , and NovelAI is a competitor to 15.ai in that, to my understanding, NovelAI offered TTS features, it looks as if accounts were created solely to influence the 15.ai vote.

GA Discussion Rebuttal

This whole page is chock full of BRP saying that my GA approval was illegitimate because of my contribution history.

The page is chock full of me saying your editing contribution was suspicious because of the irregularities surrounding the article, and that regardless of that, the article should have never been assessed "Good" because it had numerous glaring issues including a source that is considered generally unreliable WP:WEGOTTHISCOVERED. As you can see in my initial statement, where I pointed out the unaddressed COI concern from 2022 that had been purged by a drive-by IP Editor and never properly addressed as one of many reasons the article should not have been assessed as good. My statements regarding your activity were to highlight that you were an inexperienced reviewer whose only other Good Article assessment was an article that was deleted because of copyvio, which is not a good sign for the other article. I likewise noted that your activity ceased and resumed only to defend 15.ai, as Good Article reviewers are supposed to be uninvolved in the articles which they assess. Your later statement It pioneered accessible neural voice synthesis, was widely covered in tech media, and influenced numerous subsequent AI voice projects. I would not be exaggerating when I say its advent was one of the biggest news in the AI space in 2020 and 2021 only further solidfied my belief that you shouldn't have reviewed the article, because you seem to have an interest in the topic.

If you feel that I have hounded or bullied you, than I apologize and I'll go strike it out right now.

Off-Site Manipulation Evidence

As for statements that I make baseless claims about off-site manipulation of the article, Anonymous uses at PPP discuss fabricating sources . When the article was published, it was announced on the PPP according to the archived discussion that was used as a literal source in the article . Likewise, and . When the image was deleted from the Wikimedia commons for copyvio, they re-uploaded it as non-freeuse which I put up for deletion because it didn't fulfill the non-free use policy requirements . The Level of the Pony Preservation Project's involvement in 15.ai is apparently to such an extent that HackerKnownAs created an entire redirect to 15.ai of Pony Preservation Project . Here are people claiming the Misplaced Pages article is someone's reputation Here is a post directing people to use 15.ai for the history of the PPP . Here is a post discussing even creating the article , dated 07 Mar 2020, with the article being created 05 Apr 2020 .

Talk Page COI Deletion

As for the argument that I only push things that support myself, the user who seems vigilant about vandalism did not bat an eyelash in regard to the deletion by an IP Address that other than apparently engaging in BLP Vandalism, only removed a talk page discussion about their potential COI editing shortly before the article was nominated for GA Status.

Unconstructive Edit Rebuttal

As for my edits being "unconstructive", I removed a Medium link that was members only, and a Gwern link that directly referenced the Misplaced Pages article , I removed a cited tweet that didn't say what it was being cited for as well as a Gwern link that didn't mention the PPP or 15.ai directly . Here, I removed Andrew Ng who was being misrepresented and Tyler Crowen's blog because the blog is a WP:SPS and Tyler Crown is an economist, not an expert in AI. , I later found out that Andrew Ng was declared an unreliable source when the article was a draft, but was re-added after the draft was released as an erroneously flagged minor edit and I removed WeGotThisCovered and more Andrew Ng . Beyond those edits, I reverted HackerKnownAs when he undid the compromise that was decided at DRN which HackerKnownAs reverted and I did not further contest.

My next edit on the main article was undoing a user randomly changing the dates of maintenance tags and in the article .

Misrepresentation Evidence

At the Good Article Reassessment when I pointed out flaws in the reviews, I was asked Are you able to fix these issues by AirshipJungleman29 and so I did . I also corrected the contents of the Japanese sources since they seemed to be google translated and were wrong . Roughly translated, the Japanese actually states Some users used 15.ai to show a demonstration of their use of GLaDOS for an assistant by using the tool “VoiceAttack,” which enables a PC to be controlled by voice. At this point, it looks like Siri-esque sorcery. Perhaps in the future, through the power of such services, there may be an assistant that can assist the user with a voice of his/her choice!, which is not quite the same as saying "15.ai is like magic". Brocade River Poems (She/They) 11:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to also include in this discussion as this post by User:RocketKnightX has occurred after I posted my initial statement that these defamatory accusations harvested from an attack page that was recreated on WPO are continuing to be thrown around. Noting, again, that the original content of this so-called evidence used was originally created by a user who engaged in a campaign of harassment against myself and other editors, see User:Nocomputersintexas and , specifically, the removed edits from the IP Editor specifically mention 4chan and directing individuals from 4chan to harass me. This coming from User:RocketKnightX who, during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor . Given the user's edit warring at 15.ai and their continuing edit warring I suggest at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX.

Likewise, as per above, I also propose WP:BOOMERANG on User:HackerKnownAs, and would request the defamatory edit history of be expunged for WP:NPA. User:HackerKnownAs continues to ignore TalkPage consensus . Looking at their edit information, they rarely engage in talkpages and have extensively edited 4chan and 15.ai in particular, which I feel qualifies them as a WP:SPA defined in WP:SPA as A single-purpose account (SPA) is a user account or IP editor whose editing is limited to one very narrow area or set of articles, or whose edits to many articles appear to be for a common purpose and that single purpose accounts and editors who hold a strong personal viewpoint on a particular topic covered within Misplaced Pages are expected to contribute neutrally instead of following their own agenda and, in particular, should take care to avoid creating the impression that their focus on one topic is non-neutral, which could strongly suggest that their editing is not compatible with the goals of this project. Their statements about 15.ai show a strong personal opinion about 15.ai to the point of accusing a nomination at AfD as being badfaith and stating themself that was extremely crucial in the development of TTS voice generation. However, despite a few editors making this claim, no substantial reliable source has ever been provided to support this claim. Furthermore, User:HackerKnownAs has made numerous wide-sweeping reversions in the name of fighting vandalism that indiscriminately remove constructive edits to return to the article to a state they personally approve of .

They also misrepresented the sources that they added to the reception section in what amounts to editorlization. As noted above, neither of the articles cited actually refer to 15.ai itself as fascinating. The user also shows WP:OWNERBEHAVIOR in their constant reversion to their preferred version and their refusal to participate in consensus building or Dispute Resolution despite being invited to participate after their reversions . As you can see here they have not participated in any meaningful discussion on 15.ai's talkpage since 2022. During the AfD for the article, HackerKnownAs WP:CANVASSED User:SirGallantThe4th, and SirGallant alone, to the AfD at the time this occurred, the AfD was leaning toward Delete. Afterward, the SPA's I noted above also arrive and vote Keep. I do not know what manner of sanction would be appropriate, but I do feel that edit summary should be expunged if possible.

I also would like to propose that User:Rin6626 is blatantly WP:NOTHERE, as all they have done is make baseless accusations since creating their account. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 14:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

So is no one going to address the suspicious circumstances surrounding User:BrocadeRiverPoems and X0n10ox (now )? They admit to sharing the same IP address and display identical editing patterns as documented in , with the questionable explanation of being "roommates" during the Yasuke-Misplaced Pages controversy just four months ago.

Consider the sequence of events:

1. X0n10ox makes multiple Yasuke-related edits
2. They delete their account claiming "their username was posted on 4chan"
3. Days later, BrocadeRiverPoems appears, makes minimal edits to bypass semi-protection
4. BrocadeRiverPoems then advocates the identical position as their supposed roommate, exhibiting the same confrontational attitude that other editors have noted concerns about

This pattern should raise serious WP:SOCK concerns. The coincidences are difficult to ignore:

• Same IP address
• Similar editing style
• Same topic focus
• Similar behavioral patterns
• Suspicious timing

What's particularly ironic is that this user has a history of challenging other editors based on suspicious editing patterns. I anticipate they or their cronies will attempt to dismiss this analysis based on the fact that I'm posting as an IP editor.

Furthermore, we're now seeing IP editors consistently defending BrocadeRiverPoems across multiple discussions. The first reply to this thread is a perfect example. These patterns warrant closer examination. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If the supposed alternate account never edits it does not matter. Per WP:CLEANSTART this is allowed. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The issue isn't about WP:CLEANSTART itself -- it's about the pattern of behavior continuing unchanged. While users are allowed fresh starts, the concerning aspect here is that the same confrontational editing style and topic focus immediately resumed under the new account. WP:CLEANSTART is suppose dto give editors a chance to start fresh with better practices, not to simply continue problematic and alienating behavior under a different name. To quote,

• "The old account must be clearly discontinued and the new account must avoid editing patterns or behaviors that would allow other users to recognize and identify the account. It is expected that the new account will be a true "fresh start", will edit in new areas, will avoid old disputes, and will follow community norms of behavior."

We should also note that this isn't just about past behavior - we're seeing active patterns with the IP editors consistently appearing to defend BrocadeRiverPoems's positions. This suggests the account may not be operating independently, which goes beyond the scope of a clean start. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Just look at this diff (out of many, many of them -- I just chose one at random) where he berates an editor for not responding within a week, stating "Those who are opposed to its inclusion, and those that believe it should be a minority view, have had ample time in the past week to furnish any reliable source that would substantiate their claims." This shows a problematic assumption that Misplaced Pages editors should be constantly available and able to respond within an arbitrary timeframe. It fails to acknowledge that editors are volunteers who have lives outside Misplaced Pages and may not be able to participate in discussions on someone else's schedule. This is blatant WP:BATTLEGROUNDING and a continuation of the past problematic behavior. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If you post the evidence here or at an WP:SPI, instead of in an external website, maybe a response will come faster. – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 20:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, anyone with a brain see that the roommate excuse is BS. Question is will the admins do something about it or let it happen and let them go round bullying more people because he is a special group. 198.136.190.5 (talk) 22:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

A lot of "please block me" going on in this thread. --JBL (talk) 22:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

So, CLEANSTART does not apply here for two reasons: One is that X0n10ox appears to have vanished. Vanishing is a deal you make where you are promising that you are going away, permanently, and your account is renamed to something gibberishy.

The other is that if the new account displays the same behaviors of the old account, it is not a clean start.

I would also add, following along from comments way up the thread, that putting a link to WPO in an edit sumarry to "prove" someone is a sock and therefore justify a revert is way, way out of line. That's absolutely not valid proof of anything, and if you are going to accuse someone of socking, gather your actual evidence and file an WP:SPI. Just Step Sideways 00:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like I shouldn't have to point out that deliberately misgendering me and saying I'm part of a "special group" is pretty incivil per WP:EDPRONOUNS which notes ARBCOM here. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 02:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This is hopefully the last time I have to post about this. The entire argument that I'm a sock hinges on the fact that I disclosed I had a roommate as suggested by WP:ROOMMATE which says Editors in this position are advised to declare such connections on their user pages to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry., the same page reads When editing the same articles, participating in the same community discussion, or supporting each other in any sort of dispute, closely related accounts should disclose the connection and observe relevant policies such as edit warring as if they were a single account. If they do not wish to disclose the connection, they should avoid editing in the same areas, particularly on controversial topics..

Roommate Note

I did not participate on Talk Yasuke while my roommate was still active on Misplaced Pages. My roommate was also quite vociferously in support of a particular position .

My first involvement in Yasuke as an IP Address was in relation to sources and interested me because of a mention of the Tang Dynasty , as my edit history shows, I have a wide interest in Ancient Chinese history. Compared to my roommate's rather vocal support to Yasuke being definitively declared as a Samurai, my own activity has been more moderate and I created an RFC that quite literally supported the opposite position of my roommate . Again, notably, at the ARBCOM case there were no sanctions or findings of fact relating to me. However, the evidence that was submitted about my participation shows that my editing differed from that of my roommate

Complaint Origin

The user who created the original attack page accusing me of being a bully and a sockpuppet of my roommate had their talkpage comments removed by another editor for NOTFORUM. As the user had already been warned I had posted another warning because I felt that they at least deserved to receive a warning notification since their talkpage activity had been deleted.

The editor in question proceeded to claim I was ganging up on them with Symphony and Gitz and then created an entire narrative about all three of us that was later G10'd. Said user, after being blocked, started posting on 4chan directing people to harass me with one post reading On their own userpage they admit they have the SAME IP as "X0n10ox". It's obviously the SAME person who has created a new account to hide their past history. Outside of that, I was mentioned semi-favorably where my editing at Yasuke was described Though we have disagreed strongly at times, their contributions to this topic, while occasionally verbose, have been cogent and constructive, which does not seem to align with the narrative that I am bullying people off Yasuke and heavily patrolling it. Accusations, again, which the ARBCOM did not see necessary to address. In my last trip to ANI, it was under the accusation that I was an anti-Yasuke sockpuppet master which was ultimately closed by the complaining party after a handful of people opposed their proposal.

Re:Sock Activity

So my question is if I am a sockpuppet of my former roommate, what, exatly, of the criteria of being a sock have I met outside of disclosing that we shared an IP Address for a time? My roommate wasn't blocked or subject to any sanction, my participation in Yasuke came after he departed Misplaced Pages, and his stance was firmly "Yasuke was unambiguously a Samurai" while I have expressed reasonable doubt based on available sources and was brought to ANI for essentially having the opposite stance? The sole basis of the accusations on the attack page and on the subsequent WPO thread is the fact that I did what WP:ROOMMATE told me to do to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry. Since doing that, it has done nothing but result in said accusations. The entire farce of a complaint that was deleted was petty retaliation because I had posted a warning on a user's talkpage for WP:NOTFORUM as the user in question had posted a bunch of stuff about Symphony Regalia on Talk Yasuke that Gitz removed. The "bullying" which they refer to is the fact that Gitz removed the offending content, and that I felt it was only appropriate that the user in question should be notified of what they'd done wrong.

Timeline

As for the accusation I appeared "days later", my roommate departed , I created my account over a full month later on 27 July 2024, I first posted in Yasuke on 19 June 2024. I created the account because Talk Yasuke was rightly locked to IP Editors, and I was trying to relay information about the historical usage of sayamaki as users were making incorrect statements about what a sayamaki could mean. I also find the characterization that I makes minimal edits to bypass semi-protection to be confusing, because I was using the suggested edits dashboard to take me to pages which I did my best to improve based on what the dashboard told me they needed, which in most cases were sources . This is activity which did not abruptly stop when I began participating in Yasuke, either As you can see from many of those diffs, I was directed to articles as part of newcomer tasks, and if you look at my history, my usage of that suggested editing persists long after I was allowed to participate in Talk Yasuke myself.

Ongoing Harassment

These continually baseless accusations which are unfortunately part of a harassment campaign. Per the ARBCOM's Finding of Facts Participants in the dispute have been subject to harassment, both on and off of Misplaced Pages. (BrocadeRiverPoems evidence, Symphony Regalia evidence) Passed 10 to 0 at 22:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC). The very WPO thread that is being used to lodge this complaint is a thread I submitted as evidence to ARBCOM. It is worth repeating, again, that ARBCOM did not sanction me despite having access to the WPO accusations. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a very minor point but I just read through much of this dispute and I have a question: What on Earth is the "Pony Preservation Project" and what does this group have to do with Misplaced Pages and our article about artificial intelligence? Thanks for humoring me, it's my reward for reading all of this. Liz 03:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, and this is advice to any editor, do not post 12-15 diffs when you can make the same point with 2 to 3 diffs. No one who is reviewing this is going to look at all of those diffs, that is just excessive. Liz 03:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for over-supplying diffs, I just wanted to substantiate that the activity they were calling unusual was activity I long continued even after I had access to Yasuke. As for the "Pony Preservation Project" and what it has to do with Misplaced Pages and an article on Wikipeida, it appears to be a group of MLP Fans originating on 4chan /mlp/ board who supported 15.ai's development. I only know about them because I was reviewing the sources used on 15.ai and one of the sources directed me to a "desuchan" archive of the "Pony Preservation Project" on 4chan where they were actively dicussing editing the article, with one anonymous user asking another user to fabricate sources, even. The thanks section of 15.ai's archived website reads The importance of /mlp/ throughout the development of this project cannot be overstated – once again, I thank each and every one of you anonymous contributors.. Considering their involvement with the development of 15.ai, and the fact that they were actively discussing in the source archive making changes to the article, I felt it prudent to flag the article for potential WP:COI. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 03:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

BrocadeRiverPoems, thank you so much for rearranging your responses in this complaint. They are much more readable and are more likely to be read by other editors or admins. Thanks for the explanation of PPP. I was lost there among the conspiracy theories. Liz 03:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Not a problem! Sorry again for the massive posts. I am trying to get better about that. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 22:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

** Are there any outstanding issues that need to be resolved before this complaint is closed? Liz 23:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: the OP has been CU blocked. M.Bitton (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I realize this, M.Bitton. But when the checkuser, Ivanvector, was asked to close this complaint (see below), he said that there still might be outstanding issues to resolve so that is what prompted me to ask if there were any. Liz 06:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The only outstanding issue is the original issue that caused this drama, the edit warring, which I shall repost in brevity here for the sake of ease.

I want to also include in this discussion as this post by User:RocketKnightX has occurred after I posted my initial statement . User:RocketKnightX during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor . Given the user's persistent edit warring at 15.ai and their continuing edit warring and refusal to participate in dispute resolution on talk-pager discussion in a meaningful manner, I propose at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 23:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

It'll probably be helpful (for me at least) if you add a separate section with the TBAN proposal. MiasmaEternal☎ 01:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, will do. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The Underlying Content Dispute

Like many conduct disputes in Misplaced Pages, this started as a content dispute. The content dispute was over 15.ai, in particular as to what the infobox should say the status of the web site was. A request for mediation was filed at DRN. The filing editor was blocked indefinitely for conduct unrelated to the 15.ai dispute, but there were multiple editors who agreed to the ground rules, so I began moderated discussion. User:RocketKnightX was one of the editors who was invited to take part. They made a brief statement but did not take part in the following discussion. That discussion resulted in agreement to revise the article to state, in the infobox, that the web site was abandoned. They then revised the article as agreed, but RocketKnightX reverted with a brief statement. I asked them if they wanted to take part in moderated discussion, but they did not answer. At this point the other editors and I agreed that an RFC was the next step. The RFC is currently in progress, at Talk:15.ai#RFC_on_Status_of_Web_Site. The DRN discussion is archived at Misplaced Pages:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_250#15.ai.

That was the 15.ai content dispute. User:HackerKnownAs also refers to the Yasuke dispute. Although User:BrocadeRiverPoems was named as a party in the Yasuke dispute, there was no finding of fact against her. HackerKnownAs could have entered evidence, and did not. The handwave by HackerKnownAs against Brocade is unsubstantiated.

The 15.ai content dispute appears to have been forgotten, or overtaken by personal attacks. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for supplying this summary, Robert McClenon. Reading over the entire process, it seems like the dispute was resolved among participating editors on problematic wording but when it was implemented, the content change was reverted by editors who had not taken part in the DRN process. Hence the RFC that is going on. I hope you don't see your efforts as wasted as it does seem like a lot of ground was covered over the course of the DRN discussion. Liz 09:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome, User:Liz. I consider a DRN to have been productive if it results in an RFC. In that case, the DRN provides the discussion before the RFC. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This thread was a troll operation, and the trolls have been turned to stone by the light of a type G main sequence star and a special mirror that looks under bridges and in caves. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The troll who started this thread has been put to bed - why not do the same with their mess by closing it? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 18:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Sanctioning HackerKnownAs

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I suggest that for constantly reverting against consensus, HackerKnownAs is indefinitely page blocked from 15.ai. 2400:79E0:8040:78D9:1808:A4BB:1E8:1F62 (talk) 03:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting, an IP in your ::/42 range blanked User:Ltbdl/sandbox a while after Ltbdl was blocked following violations of topic bans... Ltbdl was involved in some things related to 15.ai. Now, far be it for me to acuse someone of being a block evader (without evidence), but the only obvious related edit that I see of your range as an IP edit is a single 15.ai talk page edit (diff) and seemingly no other participation.

It just makes me wonder who you are, how you found yourself here, why you decided to propose a sanction against another user who you've apparently not interacted with. – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 04:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Thats weird, but I can assure you that I am not Ltbdl. Im the 180 guy. 2400:79E0:8041:59B8:1808:A7C3:DF68:6EE0 (talk) 04:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, Admins please ban HackerKnownAs! Its so obvious his edits are only to make trouble. Andthewinnerisme (talk) 04:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

How on Earth do you think that the recommendations of accounts with 1 or 2 edits are going to lead to the block of an editor? You have no demonstratible experience editing this project. Liz 05:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

 Checkuser note: The following accounts are  Confirmed to each other:

• HackerKnownAs (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• SirGallantThe4th (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Rin6626 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Andthewinnerisme (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Since Rin6626 is already blocked, and all of the accounts have commented in this thread, all will be blocked indef per WP:BE, WP:GHBH, and WP:PROJSOCK. I'll create an SPI shortly. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 13:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Ivanvector, can you also close this thread? I think we are done here. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥 14:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I should - there have been concerns raised in good faith by and about editors who aren't part of this sock ring, and I'm not really familiar with what's been going on here. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 15:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed TBAN of RocketKnightX

User:RocketKnightX has continued to engage in an edit war at 15.ai despite having been warned for it in the past . User:RocketKnightX during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor . Given the user's persistent edit warring at 15.ai and their continued slow-edit warring and refusal to participate in dispute resolution or talk-page discussion in a meaningful manner and noting that the user seems to have competency and maturity issues as demonstrated here I propose at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX from editing at 15.ai, if not an indefinite one. --Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Support indefinite topic ban. I doubt that they wont cause issues on 15.ai if left unblocked. 2400:79E0:8070:6AE:1808:F1BB:1DB:E998 (talk) 03:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I will stop. Happy now? RocketKnightX (talk) 05:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

While I do not think it is up to me, if you say you're going to stop edit warring, that's good enough for me. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Croystron failure to communicate

Hello. Croystron, who has over 4,000 edits, again refuses to respond to his latest talk page entry here. I have also pinged Croystron on his talk page on the entry, and now ping the editor, again, here: Croystron, plus putting the ANI-notice on his talk page. He was previously blocked for two weeks for the failure to communicate with no apparent effect as the editor, again, refuses to communicate. Perhaps a longer block is necessary to provide a significant downside for Croyston's repeated and persistent failure to communicate. Thanks, Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 08:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know whether or not he "refuses to respond" which is implying you know his motivation. They may not know that they have a talk page, we don't know. But the fact is that they have never made a single post to a Talk page, User talk page or noticeboard. So, I don't think we can expect them to respond here. Liz 08:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Well Liz, I would think Croystron would notice the prominent talk page alerts on the top of each page when editing, specially since besides a talk page entry showing up, Croystron was separately pinged. Also, I would think his previous two week block would cause Croystron to wonder why. Is it your view that failure to check a talk page after multiple alerts on the top every page when editing relieves an editor of a need to communicate? It seems to me the editor should be required to communicate and, specially since Croystron has over 4,000 edits, ignorance is not an excuse. Also, not previously discussed is the basis for communication, that Croystron is violating Misplaced Pages's editing policy and consensus policy by not providing edit summaries. Regardless, a significant block of a month should serve Croystron well, either alerting that communication cannot be ignored, or alerting to start attending to the talk page. Otherwise, how do you suggest a 4,000 edit editor be further alerted to respond to an editing policy violation? Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 09:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Is there a problem with the editing besides not providing edit summaries? Is there a way of forcing edit summary use in mainspace? I note they have edited draft talk once, but I think that might have been an automated edit. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

What is the "editing policy violation" that Croystron is guilty of? I see that since 1 October Croystron (talk · contribs) has been pretty good about adding edit summaries. Not perfect but they are making an attempt which makes this comment a little out of place. Plus they haven't edited since 12 November so they may not have even seen any of the recent notices. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• P-block from article space to try to get this editor's attention. This editor was blocked previously for MOS violations + refusal to explain. People have asked them to use edit summaries multiple times, and they've never bothered to respond. Not providing edit summaries wastes other editors' time, even when edits are clearly good. When someone won't respond to queries at their talk, I think a block is completely reasonable to try to get their attention. Valereee (talk) 19:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Since 1 October they have made 143 edits. Of these 25 are listed as "No edit summary". And so because of that they are now partially blocked. I think that's a bit of an overreaction. They complied with the request to add summaries and still got partially blocked. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 20:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  This seems like an overreaction, especially considering what CambridgeBayWeather noted above about their edit summary usage. I am still unclear about what the actual policy violation is supposed to be here. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him) 20:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'd forgotten about Analysis of edit summary usage. They have made 337 edits since September and 203 (60%) with summaries a huge improvement over their first year, but it could be better. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 21:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  I would note that when they were previously blocked, the blocking admin said Please understand that, due to the collaborative nature of Misplaced Pages, you're required to communicate when requested. You're welcome to resume editing after the block expires, but I do wish you'd be more cooperative with those editors with legitimate concerns if you'd continue to be here.. So saying edit sumarries are the only issue seems to ignore this. Just Step Sideways 00:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  But that's what this seems to be about. From Valereee "This editor was blocked previously for MOS violations + refusal to explain. People have asked them to use edit summaries multiple times, and they've never bothered to respond. Not providing edit summaries wastes other editors' time, even when edits are clearly good. When someone won't respond to queries at their talk".

  The last time communication was mentioned was User talk:Croystron#November 2024 Why won't you provide edit summaries? on 12 November (the last day that Croystron edited and being P-blocked three days later does not look good), and that wasn't so much about communicating but about edit summaries, something that they have been doing for a while. There is currently three comments about communicating on Croystron's talk page. Two from Quaerens-veritatem about edit summaries! One from Valereee when she P-blocked them.

  So really until now nobody has explained what is meant by communication on Misplaced Pages. Taking Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith at face value they may well think that the only problem was the edit summaries and that is an acceptable means of communication. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 00:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Don't know why this ping never came through, but it didn't. Valereee (talk) 00:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Bad block: The only issue identified here is that Croystron hasn't responded to a four-day-old post on their talk page about how they were not using edit summaries when, in fact, they were using edit summaries. Croystron also hasn't edited for four days at this point, so I'm not seeing why a P-block from mainspace is currently necessary. Blocks are preventative, and there's been no evidence presented here that Croystron has been making any kind of disruptive edits. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you think we should unblock, it's fine. For me a p-block from article space for someone who has basically never found talk space is helpful to getting them to realize there is such a thing, but I'm open to objection to that. Valereee (talk) 00:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  If there was something that needed urgent discussing with this editor, I would agree that a P-block would be appropriate here. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Like I said, if you think we should unblock, it's fine. I think a p-block from article space when someone has been editing for over a year, has never used a talk page, and hasn't responded to multiple concerns expressed on their talk is appropriate. I tagged the block as anyone should feel free to unblock, with or without a properly formatted unblock request. I'm not trying to be a hardass, here. I'm just trying to get an editor's attention to the fact other editors are trying to communicate with them. Valereee (talk) 01:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Given that they started using edit summaries three months ago I'm sure that they know of the existence of talk pages. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 01:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good block: The block would be for failure to communicate, including not just for absence of talk page replies and non-response to ANI-notices, but also no response to multiple pings. The editor was blocked before for failure to respond. Block may now gain the editor's attention to start communicating. Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 01:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Quaerens-veritatem, considering the editor hasn't edited for 4 days, I don't think they can be charged with "non-response to ANI-notices". You just posted this complaint today. Liz 02:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well Liz, the editor did not respond to an ANI-notice provided before the first block way back on 22 September 2024, or talk page entries, or several pings. The editor continued not to respond. Again, how do you suggest an over one year editor with 4,000 edits be otherwise alerted to respond to a failure to respond violation (which has continued from way before 22 September 2024)? Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 04:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Quaerens-veritatem, I think you have done everything possible to inform this editor of existing problems, you have done your due diligence. But you can't control how other editors will or will not respond. There are editors who read each new message that gets posted to their User talk page and others who ignore their talk page beause they want to focus on article editing and not chatting with other editors. Then we have mobile editors who aren't even aware that they have a User talk page. We have to find ways to communicate with all types of editors including IP editors who don't have a stable User talk page and jump around to different IPs. You can only do your best which I think you have done. All I was asking in my original message is to Assume Good Faith and don't interpret a lack of immediate response as a sign of rejection or intentional avoidance. It could just be their temperament and editing patterns and have nothing to do with the message you posted. But, of course, if the editor came to participate here, we could learn more about their reasons. Liz 07:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Given that there's clearly a difference of opinion on how to handle this, I've taken a step back by unblocking and instead requesting the user communicate before editing again. Valereee (talk) 14:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  They commented. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 19:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wow, that is unexpected. A first. Now, if we can get them to come here. Liz 03:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Persistent IDHT and disruptive fabrication of Misplaced Pages policy

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Note: Intitally posted on AN, now moved to ANI at 16 November 17:18

I'm currently dealing with a ridiculous situation in which an editor is supposedly propagating their own wishes of what Misplaced Pages policy should be, demanding that I abide by it, refusing to acknowledge actual Misplaced Pages policy guidelines, and what very clearly appears to be playing dumb to elicit frustration.

This is the relevant t/p discussion and here I laid out a comprehensive case on why the figure at hand objectively as per Misplaced Pages policy does not constitute a low profile figure on the basis that they have actively sought media attention, giving interviews in which they themselves claimed to have been engaged in criminal activites. These interviews were detailed in length in The Globe and Mail and CTV and various other Indian news outlets, which I explained on that talk page. I also explained there was extensive media coverage surronding the figure in question dating back at least January 2023, fulfilling another requriement of WP:PUBLICFIGURE.

Simonm223 posted on my talk page alleging that in order to write about accusations or charges laid against a person not yet convicted of a crime (aka where the person may have been arrested and charged but the case had not yet get gone to trial or a conviction in the trial was pending) , I first needed to establish that the person was notable independent of any reports of accusations of wrongdoing or alleged criminal activity. I repeatedly asked Simonm223 to provide me a policy page or quotes from a policy page which backed that up, but was met with radio silence each time. Instead of doing so, he just threw out various accusations of IDHT, despite that fact that I had provided 2 key elements of WP:PUBLICFIGURE (extensive coverage from reliable sources) and WP:LOWPROFILE (figure in question seeking out media attention), whereas he did not provide any relevant quote.

I also detailed examples where we do indeed name and detail accusations/charges against a person who had not been convicted of a crime; on my talk page, I brought up how we named Derek Chauvin and the charges laid against him in the George Floyd page a few months after the page was created, despite the fact that he was a private citizen, not yet convicted of the crime at that time, who did not attain any notability outside of the killing. In a high profile case like that with thousands of editors, naming Chauvin and the charges against him would have required overwhelming consenus, thereby demonstrably disproving Simonm's claims. A look at 2024 murders in the US shows numerous pages in which a person, who obviously did not attain notability independent of their crime, are named, described as suspects in a criminal act, and have their background exhaustively detailed. A poigant example would be-this case in which a conviction is pending. It cannot be that all of Misplaced Pages is wrong and violating BLPCRIME on a regular basis and Simonm is unilaterally correct.

Both on my t/p and the article talk page, Simonm repeated these claims Absolutely not. As I mentioned at arbitration enforcement and at your user talk page it is a direct contravention of WP:BLPCRIME to put content up on Misplaced Pages that indicates a non-WP:PUBLICFIGURE is suspected of crimes for which they have not been convicted. Furthermore, as detailed at arbitration enforcement, one cannot be a WP:PUBLICFIGURE simply for having been accused of a crime. Based on these two statements we should leave out anything that would imply that any person associated with Hardeep Singh Nijjar is accused of crimes until such time as they stand trial or they become a politician, celebrity or other independently well-known person. despite the fact that the policy in WP:BLPCRIME is contingent on WP:PUBLICFIGURE and WP:LOWPROFILE and nowhere does it say in WP:PUBLICFIGURE that someone cannot become a "public figure" solely through criminal activity which has not yet secured a conviction. Literally nowhere.

After I demonstrably proved how the figure in question did in fact receive extensive media coverage for years and objectively cannot be considered a low profile figure, Simonm then claimed I gave you the policy in question. Your response is a text wall that boils down to "they do it on other pages" which is not a compelling point on Misplaced Pages. Lots of stuff happens on other pages that shouldn't.

I don't believe Simonm is acting in good faith here, he seems to be knowingly ignoring the policy I'm citing, he's repeatedly spouting off nonexistent policy and not backing it up despite multiple requests and demanding that I just abide by his own personal preferences. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 10:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Globe report-"(Arsh Dalla) Mr. Gill, who attended Mr. Nijjar’s temple, could not be reached for this story. In an interview this past April with a Punjabi journalist, he denied supporting the Khalistani militancy, but said he killed a Hindu leader who desecrated a Sikh holy book."

CTV report-Speaking to CTV News, Ritesh Lakhi, a well-connected independent journalist in India, says Dalla is “a very prominent player, as far as organized crime in the north state of Punjab.” ... Lakhi says that during previous conversations with Dalla, he even admitted his role in some of the murders, telling CTV News that Dalla “would simply call me up. I did a few interviews with him, and he would tell me why he killed this person. We've been watching his activities for the last three and a half years.” Lakhi goes on to add that in some cases in India, “there are certain gangsters who’ve been designated as terrorists, and Arsh Dalla happens to be one of them.” Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 11:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This undeniably proves that Dalla actively sought out media attention, thus making him a high profile person. Simonm ignored that on the t/p and instead claimed I only invoked OSE, which is egregiously insulting and disruptive. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 12:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Two things:

1. this is the wrong noticeboard for what you are trying to do.
2. If you take a content dispute to the noticeboard that takes these sorts of complaints when there's already literally two arbitration enforcement cases about the same issue and against a person who has literally just said "we don't accuse plumbers from surrey of being gangsters on Misplaced Pages pages about alleged known associates," (like I literally haven't even done any edits to the page, you just don't like what I said about Misplaced Pages policy at article talk) you're going to catch a boomerang for these antics. Could an admin please close this thread?

Simonm223 (talk) 12:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Nope, this is well beyond a content dispute- you're spouting off non existent Misplaced Pages policy and refusing to back them up despite multiple requests, consistently and knowingly ignoring me providing actual Misplaced Pages policy elements and backing them up, making hurtful accusations against me claiming a paragraph in which I highlighted numerous sources and policies was merely "other stuff exists" which is an egregious violation of decency and clearly intended to frustrate me, and gaslighting me by claiming that I'm the one who's ill-informed (you first lobbed the IDHT insult against me-).

This is clearly not a content dispute, but a competence is required and IDHT problem on your part.

The fact that you cannot even address any of the claims I made above regarding WP:PUBLICFIGURE or WP:LOWPROFILE, either here on the article's t/p or on my t/p is telling. I engaged with you respectfully in the very beginning and was willing to have a conversation based on policy, but all you've done is make petty insults against me, insult my intelligence, demanded that I abide by your personal interpretation and preferences of Wiki policy, lied about what a policy section states, and ridiculed my arguments and brazenly straw manned them. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 12:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Relevant background: I filed a Arbitration Enforcement request against Southasianhistorian8 on November 14 due to conduct issues in the India-Pakistan-Afghanistan topic area (specifically Sikh topics). Simonm223 provided a statement as an uninvolved editor to that AE request, then attempted to engage SAH on their user talk page. This interaction ended with Simonm223 adding to his AE statement, saying "Honestly my attempt to provide some friendly help regarding the BLPCRIME issue has left me a bit more concerned about WP:IDHT than I was at the outset."

SAH appears in that interaction to try to WP:BADGER Simonm223 into agreement with walls of text, both on their user talk page and at Talk:Hardeep Singh Nijjar, despite Simonm223 only wanting to keep the discussion at the user talk.

This filing appears to be lashing out at Simonm223 for not agreeing with them. This is in-line with SAH filing a retaliatory AE request against me 7-hours after the one against them.

Both the retaliatory AE request and this AN filing demonstrate both a clear non-understanding of WP:IDHT and a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality that is not conductive to editing in this topic area. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  15:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Admins, GhostofDanGurney has a very long history of making hasty, ill researched claims about me, in a previous A/E, he falsely accused me of plagiarizing his work, ScottishFinnishRadish concluded that Ghost made inflammatory edit summaries against me and others and engaged in a tendentious interpretation of a primary source, he also falsely claimed I edit warred citing a grand total of one revert, and has now been told by 2 admins that his reports at A/E are based on content disputes. He's literally throwing anything and everything on the wall, hoping something sticks. I urge admins to look at Ghost's egregious conduct for themselves.

Now he's claiming that I badgered Simonm23 on their user talk page, which again is a straight up lie, the only post I made on Simonm's t/p is the notification for this AN post. Simonm also first stated that he wanted to relegate the discussion to my t/p then 9 minutes later posted on the article's t/p despite that fact that I never pinged or initiated a discussion with him there. So again, a brazen lie from Ghost.

This is also clear tag-teaming from 2 editors who clearly are on each other's side.

Nonetheless, there are severe issues about Simonm's conduct, and I urge admins not to fall for tricks that are intended to digress and take attention away from that. These conduct issues laid out here specifically pertaining to Simonm's conduct on my t/p and article t/p deserve to be addressed. 15:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC) Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 15:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This is straight up bullying now- and the lack of self-awareness and brazen tag teaming is bewildering. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 16:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I was given an ultimatum for expired awareness notifications

This is about developments at User talk:Hotpine. Hotpine has given me an ultimatum for retracting awareness notifications which have expired for almost two years.

, , and . tgeorgescu (talk) 18:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hotpine: you edited in area of Misplaced Pages that are under discretionary sanctions imposed by the Arbitration Committee. tgeorgescu posted a standard contentious topic alert, which does not imply that your edits were improper. It appears that you take issue with the fact that the standard alert makes reference to the arbitration case that imposed those sanctions. I'm not sure why you take issue with that, but there's nothing improper about it. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, now that I got the point that such notifications do not expire, I have to say why I told them they're editing under WP:GENSEX discretionary sanctions: sex addiction therapy and porn addiction therapy have become a way of performing conversion therapy without calling it so. This is especially relevant since conversion therapy has been banned in several states. I don't know any WP:MEDRS to that extent, but it is a point which reputable experts made in mainstream media. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The above made me curious about WP:MEDRS to that extent and I found this: Neves, Silva (2023). "Chapter 11. MSM and compulsive sexual behaviours. "Sex addiction" and conversion practices". In Neves, Silva; Davies, Dominic (eds.). Erotically Queer: A Pink Therapy Guide for Practitioners. Taylor & Francis. p. unpaginated. doi:10.4324/9781003260608-12. ISBN 978-1-000-86221-8. Retrieved 17 November 2024. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

What I don't understand is that these notices were posted on their user talk page almost 3 years ago and the editor has edited since 2021. Why are they complaining about them now? I hope they will find their way here and offer an explanation. Liz 02:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Now in the article Sexual addiction the link between sexual addiction therapy and conversion therapy is abundantly sourced. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: Those templates say "discretionary sanctions" not CTOPs. So, I don't know if they're expired. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how we can get much clearer than, "this message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing", but many editors seem to miss that. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

We need to bring back the marquee tag. — The Hand That Feeds You: 17:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

That sentence isn't true and everyone knows it, that's why. Levivich (talk) 19:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, probably more than 90% of the time it's given, the contentious topics warning actually means "I do think there's a problem with your editing so I'm making sure I can take you to AE if you step out of line again". More generally, I think WP:HNST is broadly correct about how inexperienced editors interpret all templates Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 17:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Ardyjofry

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Ardyjofry, who was recently blocked for a week for vandalism, has in recent days been repeatedly posting the same unsuitable article to mainspace. I originally draftified the article as it was blank, which they rejected by returning it to mainspace but did not actually improve it, merely adding two sentences copied from another article. I nominated for CSD, User:Pppery changed it to a redirect, all fine until they then deleted the redirect and replaced it with the same bad content, necessitating a full lock be put on the redirect. They then proceeded to vandalise my userpage, which was honestly not that big a deal so I simply left a warning and carried on, but today they posted a hoax article and then left a very low-effort personal attack on their talk page in response to me.

I think at this point, whilst not a clear-cut vandal for AIV, they are very clearly not getting it and it's probably worth another block.

CoconutOctopus talk 20:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Indefinitely blocked.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

User:MxLoko apparently WP:NOTHERE and engaging in personal attacks

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:MxLoko is an account created on October 20 that, as of this writing, has made 35 edits. Of those, 25 are on two talk pages involving soccer-related articles and another five are either to the user’s own user page and talk page. (The other five edits are substantive edits to soccer-related articles.) The user's talk page contributions consist primarily of constantly repeating the same talking points to complain when other users are not agreeing with proposed edits. Let me add that I have no idea what this person is talking about regarding "exposing" a group of three or four users and their alleged "methods" (whatever those are), although it sounds vaguely like a threat to me.

diff 1

diff 2 basically says the same thing

diff 3 repeats it again

diff 4 then says the same thing again

I firmly believe MxLoko is displaying WP:NOTHERE behavior by refusing to WP:DROPTHESTICK and by repeating the same talking point about "exposing methods" over and over again.

MxLoko has also engaged in personal attacks on me in edit summaries and on the user's user page and talk page, as follows:

Original version of the user page—take note of what it says at the end and take note of the edit summary. WP:ES very clearly states, quote, "As with any other Misplaced Pages space, do not express opinions of other users in edit summaries." MxLoko very clearly violated that. The system, of course, notified me about it and I demanded that the personal attack be removed from the user page. Another user took care of that. In response, MxLoko very disingenuously claimed there was no personal attack—obviously a ludicrous claim—and essentially expressed an intent to continue the behavior. The user then revised the user page to retain the attack without mentioning me by name, although the new personal attack is wrong because I wasn’t born in 1995 (I’m not going to divulge my exact age except to say I’m well over 40 years old).

I have no problem with a user disagreeing with me. That happens all the time. But under no circumstances am I willing to tolerate a user engaging in personal attacks against me on the person's own user page. The user's claim that there was no personal attack is irrelevant. WP:NPA very clearly says, quote, "Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done." (Emphasis in original.) MxLoko's claim to have believed that I was a "fan" does not pass what is sometimes called the "straight-face" or "laugh" test—no reasonable person could make that claim while keeping a straight face. 1995hoo (talk) 21:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Sock blocked.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I saw the block show up and I tried to delete this report so as not to waste anyone’s time, but you beat me to it. Have a nice weekend. 1995hoo (talk) 21:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Self-talk page vandalism?

I haven't encountered an instance of anyone vandalizing their own talk page before (without having been blocked with TPA), but 216.138.20.167 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has achieved that dubious honor. I frankly do not know if this kind of activity is prohibited, which is why I haven't issued any warnings as yet. JJP_Master (she/they) 00:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for disruptive editing and TPA revoked. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:34, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Voorts: Thank you. In the future, can this kind of thing just be reported to AIV instead? JJP_Master (she/they) 00:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think this fits within the definition of vandalism. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think Zlillyann might be this IP's registered account so keep an eye on them. Liz 01:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I thought the same; their userpage was already on my watchlist. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Repeated WP:PA Violations by IP 47.69.66.57 (and prior IP addresses)

The IP (and previous IP addresses operated by the same individual) has made repeated personal attacks targetting me.

They have alleged that I am not... mentally sound: "fake news by incapacity or intent or what?"

They claimed that a B-Class article I edit often, SpaceX Super Heavy, is my "favorite playground"

Multiple claims of attempting to mislead others: "And you still either don't understand or try to mislead"

"Once more a certain editor wants to spam each and every space article with superfluous and redundant starship pseudofacts"

"Once more, Redacted II makes "original research" and exaggerates vague facts to factuals"

"neclected and more or less to a single editor who had put in original reseach and exaggerations while blocking others"

They accuse everyone they disagree with of WP:OR, despite the disputed content often being well sourced. And anyone who confronts them is a WP:PA violator:

IMO, it is clear that they are not here to improve Misplaced Pages, and edits only to harrass more experienced editors.

I reported their behaviour before, but no action was taken. Redacted II (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

A link to the archive of the previous report (with the responses): link. – 2804:F1...A2:6879 (::/32) (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hopping in here as I've also seen this person repeatedly hounding Redacted II in several discussions. It's clear this user is not interested in constructive editing. Ergzay (talk) 02:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Legal threats

User:TomW1212 making legal threats after being warned on their talk page - see diff. CoconutOctopus talk 17:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Now blocked for vandalism indefinitely so probably safe to close this! CoconutOctopus talk 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I have revoked this person's talk page access. It is crystal clear that their intent is malicious. Cullen328 (talk) 19:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

They clearly have no actual connection to the person in question, and their edits are blatantly deliberately trolling and disruptive. Canterbury Tail talk 16:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

SheriffIsInTown POV pushing editing pattern

SheriffIsInTown has been consistently POV pushing against Imran Khan and the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), figures in Pakistan’s political crisis. I reported them on this noticeboard recently, and I hoped that the issue would be resolved after my report, but I am reporting them again as their WP:CPUSH behavior has made it difficult to discuss and work with them on contentious topics since the report.

POV pushing on Imran Khan BLP
On the Imran Khan BLP, Sheriff has added almost exclusively negative criticism about Khan, including citing an opinion piece instead of reliable inline citations and following a one-sided narrative. In this discussion, they argued that one sexual harassment allegation should have an independent section, followed by accusing both me and the user who added the section (WikiEnthusiast1001) of POV pushing in favor of PTI because we advocated for a merge into another section to fit the article's structure.

Following a somewhat resolution to the dispute, they added a large section about Khan's comments on rape and allegations of misogyny/victim-blaming but was entirely one-sided, failing to mention other viewpoints or any context, essentially only covering the negatives which forced me and another user to step in and add context . Even worse, Sheriff already knows that Khan's comments on rape were contested as out of context, as they edited on a page talking about the allegations but did not add the other viewpoint.

Previously, they put false information on Imran Khan’s BLP article that was not supported by any of the 3 citations they gave and citation bombed to make it seem like a proper piece of information. I asked them twice on why they did this in the talk page, but they only responded when Saqib intervened in this discussion.

Even more concerning, they cited an opinion piece for 2 paragraphs of information on Imran Khan’s page without even mentioning it was an opinion piece. They also used that one opinion piece as a citation for two paragraphs about contentious information on an already contentious protected BLP, without inline citations or even a mention of the opinion piece or its authors, The Guardian and Catherine Bennet, which was discussed here. In response to the lengthy negative opinion piece Sheriff added, I decided to balance it with a short paragraph summarizing three positive opinion pieces . However, instead of allowing for balance, Sheriff selectively extracted negative points from these generally positive pieces and showed further compulsion to add only negative content. Khan is a controversial figure in Pakistani politics and his BLP is a high-priority and a GA nomination which is why these editing patterns are even more concerning.

Aggressive Behavior
As I mentioned on my previous report, discussions with them often result in WP:IDHT by them. They have threatened to “take it to the next level” and use language like “before you open your mouth” with me. They have accused me of bad faith and portraying Imran Khan as suffering because I used the word 'Campaigning'.

Edit Warring on Election Pages and 3RR
A major example of this behavior is that they reverted three times on 2024 Pakistani general election, out of which 2 reverts were done within 24 hours, when already being told not to by multiple editors in this discussion. I explained that as per WP:BRD I could revert their edit reducing the PTI's seats from 93 to 39 then initiate a discussion, but I decided to initiate a civil discussion first to avoid an edit war with Sheriff, though they still continued edit warring, continuing to rapidly reduce the PTI's seats despite no consensus.

WP:FORUM political comments
Additionally, there are instances where Sheriff's comments on talk pages have deviated from content discussion and veered into personal opinions, which is against WP:NOTFORUM. As they stated that There was a legal issue about this because PTI failed to conduct intra-party elections properly. When you don’t follow the law, there are consequences. , which the "consequences" remark is confusing as it inserts their political opinion regarding PTI into a talk page discussion. In this comment Claiming it was a false flag operation is a serious accusation. Simply stating that it wasn’t isn’t sufficient; it requires an explanation of why it wasn’t a false flag. , Sheriff challenges PTI's claim of a "false flag operation," which seems to stray into political bias, as it focuses on discrediting a political claim rather than representing the information in a neutral, factual manner.

Other Users Confirming This Behavior
Saqib - Saqib has raised concerns multiple times over SheriffIsInTown's POV pushing behavior patterns against PTI and Imran Khan on several pages including on Sheriff's talk page, primarily Sheriff removing PTI on election pages as well as in this discussion and here.

WikiEnthusiast1001 - WikiEnthusiast1001 has accused Sheriff of disruptive editing on the Imran Khan page and other pages recently. They also balanced out Sheriff's one-sided edits on Imran Khan and pointed out: This section is oddly worded and would be clearer if titled 'Controversies.' It presents a one-sided view without mentioning Imran's later clarifications. As Titan and I have noted, your strong involvement with this page suggests a potential bias. It might be best for you to take a break from editing and come back with fresh perspective. Take some time to unwind—there's more to life than just editing Misplaced Pages In their edit diff.

Saad Ali Khan Pakistan - Saad Ali Khan Pakistan has has accused SheriffIsInTown of bullying and constantly reverting his edits on election pages here and here. He recently urged admins to take action against Sheriff for said disruptive behavior. Titan2456 (talk) 20:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Most of the accusations mentioned here were addressed in a previous ANI, where the majority of uninvolved editors dismissed their report. After Drmies closed the discussion, they approached Drmies to reopen the discussion, but their request was denied, and they were instructed to present stronger evidence, which they have been attempting to gather since then. As I mentioned, most of these accusations were already discussed and dismissed in the previous ANI. If an admin highlights anything new, I will gladly address it. Most issues arise from OP adding promotional or biased content, which compels me to step in and balance the narrative. Their support for PTI and its leaders is clear from the user box displayed on their user page, as seen in this revision:

This user supports the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf

They are not a neutral editor and are not here to contribute to building an encyclopedia but are instead driven by a political agenda. So far, I have only managed to address a fraction of their edits. In nearly every article related to a PTI figure that they have edited, they predominantly added promotional content, much of which still requires balancing—a task I intend to continue as time permits. I anticipate that they will return here repeatedly, as the promotional content they add can only be counterbalanced with material they may not favour, given their support for PTI and its leaders. They are upset with me because I am the only one standing in their way. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Titan2456, please post an ANI notification on the User talk page of every editor you mention in your opening comments, not just Sheriff. They should know that their comments might be discussed. No comment yet on the substance of your remarks. Thank you. Liz 22:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Here, they express a clear intention to specifically expand the criticism and allegations section against Ishaq Dar, a political opponent of PTI—the party they have openly declared their support for. Can we trust an editor who has openly aligned themselves with a political party and then explicitly states their intent to add criticism and allegations to articles about leaders of the opposing party? Shouldn’t their edits be reviewed for neutrality? Furthermore, they repeatedly file ANI reports against me for merely attempting to balance their edits, which ultimately wastes everyone’s time. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

So much to unpack, so maybe I'll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. The wording could be better, but that's why there's a talk page. Aggressive behavior? I mean yeah it's aggressive but it feels more like a slap on the wrist type of warning that could be given, nothing more. The 3RR was discussed last time. Two NOTFORUM remarks doesn't feel like enough and they aren't exactly forum-like comments anyways. So, what actually do you want accomplished? Do you need someone to wag their finger at Sheriff and tell them to calm down? From what I can tell aggression is not equal to disruption, but making constant ANI reports about one user is. Conyo14 (talk) 02:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your response Conyo14, my primary concern is the POV pushing, which as stated is about not including other viewpoints (only adding criticism) when already knowing of such information. The opinion piece citation, only adding extensive amounts of negative information as well as watering down positive language on the Imran Khan BLP is WP:CPUSH. The reason for filing 2 reports was that following the report, Sheriff continued the same behavior, hence I have reported them again, with new information. The information added by Sheriff itself is not neutral, as it is covering contentious topics and presenting only one-sided views and criticism, it is POV. I acknowledge that most of these were solved in talk pages but the discussions involved WP:IDHT, with Sheriff ignoring points. For the 3RR example, it was only resolved after Saqib stepped in and the Imran Khan BLP after WikiEnthusiast1001 did. Similarly, in a recent discussion regarding the PTI's seat count, they have claimed to refuted Al Jazeera, BBC and multiple other newspapers with these remarks, which provides no source and ignores multiple sources given, it also ignores past and repeated discussions. These are repeated editing patterns and not isolated incidents which is why I have brought it to ANI. Regarding actions, if a user continues to cite opinion pieces, misrepresent sources to favor negative information, and present one-sided views on a specific BLP, I believe a topic ban from that specific BLP is a reasonable solution if this behavior persists after the first ANI report. I hope this clarifies this. Thank you. Titan2456 (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems more like countering your POV. In case you did not hear it, Conyo14 stated, So much to unpack, so maybe I’ll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. This means they took the time to review your over 8,000-byte report, examined your evidence, and concluded that what you called POV pushing was actually an effort to achieve neutral balance. As I have explained before, in case you didn’t hear it, most of my edits were made to counter the overly promotional and one-sided content you added. That’s why my contributions might seem more negative—they balance out the positive bias you had already introduced. You left no room for me to add anything positive because your edits were so overwhelmingly favourable. Why would you submit an 8,000-byte report? Do you think I don’t face challenges with other editors? Yet, I don’t file such extensive reports against anyone because I have no political affiliation. Filing such a lengthy report suggests more than just volunteerism—it points to a deeper affiliation. You might have a conflict of interest here. A topic ban is warranted—not for me, but for you. You should be restricted from editing any post-1970 Pakistani politics-related articles to prevent further use of Misplaced Pages for advancing PTI’s political agenda and for targeting living opponents of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

What promotional information did I add on the Imran Khan BLP which prompted you to cite a negative opinion piece for two paragraphs without mentioning it was an opinion piece? When you added a paragraph about one large negative opinion piece, I was forced to balance it with some short sentences on some positive opinions (which there were multiple), which you did not allow for by selectively extracting negative information from positive opinion pieces, why was this? What promotional content did I add for you to add one-sided claims about Imran Khan's comments on sexual violence? Also, which living opponents of PTI have I "targeted", are you talking about Ishaq Dar? I have added no information on his article, please follow up, as I want to know which opponents of PTI I have disproportionally represented. Titan2456 (talk) 21:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff, it is not wrong to express support for a political party. It becomes a COI if Titan were working with a campaign or for the political party's headquarters. However, it will be very good to keep in mind during the next ANI report, if there is one.

Titan, again, that statement isn't POV pushing, but it was worded very poorly. The wording is much more appropriate now. Conyo14 (talk) 00:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Expressing support for a political party is not inherently problematic, but when that support influences their editing and compromises neutrality, it becomes an issue. Based on my observations, the content they add to articles about PTI tends to lack neutral language and leans towards being promotional. For instance, the section titled "Education Sector Reforms" on PTI president's article focuses solely on achievements and could have been phrased in a more neutral manner. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

To Conyo14, Yes, the wording is better now following the balancing corrections added by me and other users. The situation is that these are repeated incidents that I cannot keep correcting. If it was just citing an opinion piece or adding extensive negative information to Imran Khan’s time in office, I would give Sheriff the benefit of the doubt, but continuing to add Khan’s controversial comments on rape without him and his government’s clarification, despite Sheriff knowing this and expanding negative content from positive opinion pieces is a bit too far to be good faith. If you believe that filing an ANI report again for this is not the right course of action then please advise me what would be if this pattern is repeating over and over on a contentious high priority BLP. Thank you Conyo14. Titan2456 (talk) 01:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The appropriate course of action for you would be to refrain from adding promotional content in the first place and instead ensure that the content is balanced, so I don’t need to intervene to correct it. Regarding content related to sexual misconduct, please note that there are standalone articles addressing such matters for other political figures, such as Andrew Cuomo sexual harassment allegations and Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations. The content I added was fully sourced, so there is no basis for you to criticise me for including it. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 02:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned in the above comment, they added promotional content to the article on PTI president Parvez Elahi, as shown in this diff. Upon closer inspection, I identified issues with the first part of the content, while the second part references a PDF that will take me some time to review thoroughly. The first part, as noted in my edit summaries, was sourced to the university’s website, claiming the university was built by Elahi. There were two sources cited: The first source was a message from the vice chancellor. I removed it, explaining in the edit summary that it was a “Primary source, sourced to Vice Chancellor’s message.” The second source did not mention Elahi at all, so I removed the content with the edit summary “And no mention of Elahi in this second source.” For now, as long as this ANI remains open, I will continue reporting my findings on their apparent bias in favour of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I have been editing in Misplaced Pages since 2017 and I tried to be as neural as possible while editing pages. I never involved in unnecessary changes or edits which are not related to that person. I mainly focused on constituency pages and electoral history related pages because they were not updated like electoral pages of India. I edited over 900 constituency pages of National Assembly and Provincial assemblies of Pakistan and didn't favor any party or went against any party or politician. I was editing daily until Sheriff came and started bullying by reverting edits I made before 2024 elections. I wanted to add election boxes in constituency pages so that during and after election results it would be easy for the editors to edit and write results. He came and reverted my edits and even after elections when majority of Media sources from Pakistan and the World were showing PTI backed Independents separate from other Independents having support of no parties. He started to argue with me and reverted my edits again. I stopped editing since March because I don't have spare time to waste on a person who likes to bully and argue with other editors like he owns Misplaced Pages. If a person writes information without credible source their edits should be reverted but if someone reverts edits for no reason than I consider this harassment and bullying and this needs to be stopped. An Institution like Misplaced Pages should not tolerate bullies like Sheriff which misuse their influence and bully other editors. I request Administration to take serious action against bullies like Sheriff. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk)

Dispute at Redbox article

An IP hopper (range: 92.40.212.0/23 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))) has been attempting to add a user-generated wiki to the Redbox article by doing the following:

• Declaring that their source is "reliable" themselves
• Using my disability status as a way to downplay/personally attack me when I warned them
• Claiming to be "moderation"
• Claiming that their disruptive edits were "requested" by another user who simply cleaned up the article (and even stated that the IP's edits "did not seem encyclopedic")

Would like a path forward here.

wizzito | say hello! 02:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

That personal attack should be at minimum a block. non-admin comment Conyo14 (talk) 02:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The IP Is still at it claiming the reverts are "vandalism" and "done for no reason". It appears the IP is Not listening thus A range block is necessary. Lavalizard101 (talk) 23:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like admin User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe has blocked the latest IP address in the range 92.40.213.139 for 31 hrs. A little earlier I've also started a talk page discussion here and invited the IP to it from their talk page, so hopefully the block gets the message across and that they will discuss the content dispute instead of continuing to edit war. — AP 499D25 (talk) 23:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocking the latest IP has proven to do nothing, the IP came back with another one in the range and reverted with claims of vandalism again . @Pickersgill-Cunliffe: It might be easier to range block rather than whack a mole. Lavalizard101 (talk) 01:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not experienced with range blocks so I'll leave it to others, but a /23 block seems to be quite a wide net. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

A /23 is not that wide, especially if we just partially block them from the Redbox article. wizzito | say hello! 01:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Good idea. P-blocked the range from the article for one week. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User now likely active as User:EncyclopediaFixer. --Leonidlednev (T, C, L) 16:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:NigelPorter and User:Bjcook; potential COI and/or SOCK

I recently requested a review of the article Brendon Cook as I believe that it doesn't meet Misplaced Pages's standards, reasons for which can be found here. This article already has a COI cloud under it, as User:Bjcook (a direct reference to the subject's name) created the article and continues to edit Misplaced Pages regularly.

User:NigelPorter then stated his opinion, however did not reference any Misplaced Pages policies or even clearly state whether they supported or opposed the AfD. Having replied to them with valid reasons as to why their suggestions did not meet Misplaced Pages's criteria, they then proceeded to claim that I had some sort of "personal agenda" against the subject of the article due to my user name - despite their user page containing userboxes indicating similar interests. This user then immediately copied the contents of the article into their sandbox, indicating that they will immediately resubmit the article if it is deleted.

Their actions towards the proposed deletion of the article suggest a potential COI or an attitude of article ownership, or even a potential sock puppet of User:Bjcook, that is in disregard to Misplaced Pages policy. MSportWiki (talk) 06:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Three main things:

1. I am going to note that Bjcook has not edited Brendon Cook since 2007. While there might be a COI concern with respect to that, I don't really think that alone would be cause for action.
2. We then move to the sockpuppetry allegations: Both Bjcook and NigelPorter have an interest in Australian racing (and sport more broadly), and they are both infrequent but longtime editors. I don't see enough to block here on mere comparisons of topic interest, though it might be worth a checkuser taking a look. I'd suggest you lodge that at WP:SPI, which is more competent to handle those concerns.
3. As for civility and WP:OWNERSHIP, I agree that this is unnecessarily inflammatory, and I would note that this is a WP:COPYWITHIN violation in addition to a clear attempt to skirt the AfD by unilaterally userfying the page.

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 04:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

An SPI has been opened here, thank you. MSportWiki (talk) 05:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

EDIT: Both editors have contributed to Queensland netball-related articles in the last few months (Bjcook and NigelPorter) whilst Brendon Cook sits on a board for Indigenous netball in Queensland (sources 1 2) – clear evidence of COI and sockpuppetry. @Acalamari, Discospinster, Finlay McWalter, Graeme Bartlett, Joe Roe, Liz, Mjroots, Pppery, Tassedethe, and Voorts: pinging some randomly active editors to kickstart the procedure. MSportWiki (talk) 13:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

You'd be better off taking the above to WP:SPI. TarnishedPath 05:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Done (here), thank you. MSportWiki (talk) 05:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

You will see that we both attended, with many other Wikipedians in Brisbane, meet ups advertised and encouraged. Just because I became wiki friends with many of the attendants and share common interests, is not sockpuppertry. There is no COI because User:Bjcook is not Brendon Cook. His name is Brian.

You will also see that we have different IP addresses. We don't live or work with each other.

I find it distressing that the first person to disagree with you has a case opened against them. This is an attack on me. NigelPorter (talk) 05:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

NigelPorter, I know it is disconcerting to be included in an SPI report. I know it was for me when I first started editing. And it's happened to many other editors. Just let the process work. Liz 09:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

"Jolly J" Fennimore making accusations of criminal activity

"Jolly J" Fennimore (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is making various claims of criminal activity on Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project (diff). These accusations apparently originate with him (not from the press or government) and certainly fall afoul of WP:BLP. He appears to be editing primarily to publicize these allegations (see edit summary here of I added several serious crimes that have occurred during the restoration of the Cut-Off. I have many more still to add. I have become an investigative journalist and have a newspaper with stories related to this (and exposing ) coming out early 2025. While his edits cite some sources, they don't support 90% of the screed, including all of the criminal allegations. His talk page comments here and here indicate a total lack of why his editing is inappropriate. I unfortunately did not leave an edit warring notice until after my second revert and his third of the day, but given these allegations, I think admin action may be needed. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Why do you claim I didn't cite my sources? "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 07:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

You claim falsely that 90% of what I wrote is not supported. You pulled this percentage out of thin air. Nonetheless, if you do not believe that 90% is supported- Why did you remove 100%? Is being an investigative journalist and being on Misplaced Pages non-compatible? I could cite many more sources and add much more, but then the page would be a mile long. If you need me to clarify or give more substantiation- let me know where you need more clarification and more citations and they will be added. All I know is my work on Misplaced Pages was deleted and you did so claiming that I didn't cite sources. Like I said, if you can point out what I didn't cite, I will add citations and if they aren't readily available, I will remove those sections for a day, before I can find them in my notes. I am a fairly easy-going person, there is no reason to bother administrators, they do enough work already. "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 07:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@"Jolly J" Fennimore: Most of what you added is improper synthesis: you improperly drew your own conclusions not explicitly stated by any of the sources you cited. Please also read WP:RGW: we are not a place to post new investigative journalism, only a place where things that have already been reported by a independent reliable source can be given their due weight, not more not less. If your goal here is to make new reports of misconduct, then I'm afraid Misplaced Pages is not the place for it. Remember, the people you are mentioning are living, so we must be very careful about what we say about them.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

There is also edit-warring going on here. I've warned the editor (who has now been warned twice) but they might cross the 3RR line. Liz 08:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, I am still fairly new here and still don't know why anybody is talking about "War"? I didn't start any war. "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 09:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@"Jolly J" Fennimore: Edit warring is not a war per se but has a specific meaning on Misplaced Pages. Please refer to that link. Essentially, you were repeatedly reinserting content when others have shown their opposition by taking it back out.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• I have indefinitely pageblocked "Jolly J" Fennimore from Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project due to violations of our policies regarding biographies of living people, no original research and edit warring. The editor is free to make well-referenced, policy compliant edit requests at Talk: Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project. Cullen328 (talk) 19:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Thekz Cos

This user keeps moving pages from the sandbox to the Misplaced Pages namespace. They have been warned twice on the talk page but continue to do so. Annh07 (talk) 11:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

In User talk:Thekz Cos § October 2024 they responded to the warning with noted. Since then, they've moved six more drafts to the Misplaced Pages namespace:

• Special:Redirect/logid/165534378: Nov 2, Misplaced Pages:Marko Podgornik Verdev
• Special:Redirect/logid/165577025: Nov 4, Misplaced Pages:Jordy Kool (Entrepreneur)
• Special:Redirect/logid/165595808: Nov 5, Misplaced Pages:Dr. Heiko Visarius (Medtech Expert,Board Member, Moderator)
• Special:Redirect/logid/165666334: Nov 8, Misplaced Pages:Outlook Travel Magazine
• Special:Redirect/logid/165726593: Nov 11, Misplaced Pages:Laurence Kemball-Cook
• Special:Redirect/logid/165814944: Nov 15, Misplaced Pages:Lab Interior GmbH

jlwoodwa (talk) 11:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

What's going on? Thekz Cos (talk) 11:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing up the matter regarding the movement of drafts to the Misplaced Pages namespace. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this process and its compliance with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and broader legal considerations.

The migration of drafts to the Misplaced Pages namespace is a standard practice and fully aligns with Misplaced Pages’s purpose of collaboratively building an encyclopedia. The following points address your concerns and provide context:

1. Legal and Community Compliance Misplaced Pages operates under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 (CC BY-SA 3.0) and GFDL licenses. These licenses explicitly allow the sharing, modifying, and publishing of content, provided proper attribution is maintained. Moving drafts to the main namespace does not violate these licenses as it remains within the scope of Misplaced Pages's content-sharing policies.
2. Editorial Review and Process The drafts moved to the Misplaced Pages namespace are subject to Misplaced Pages’s robust editorial processes, including community oversight and adherence to notability and sourcing guidelines. This ensures the integrity and quality of the articles, maintaining the platform’s credibility and mission.
3. Transparency and Traceability The edits and actions, including draft movements, are transparently logged in the platform's history. This allows the community to review and discuss any concerns openly. The action of moving drafts reflects consensus-driven contributions rather than unilateral decisions.
4. Encouraging Collaboration Moving a draft to the main namespace often signifies its readiness for broader community input. This step is critical to engaging a diverse editor base for improving, expanding, and refining the content collaboratively.

If you have specific concerns about a particular draft or process, I’m more than willing to discuss further and address any issues. I am confident that all actions taken align with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and legal framework. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The concern is the particular process: you're moving pages to the Misplaced Pages namespace, not to the main namespace. —C.Fred (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the concern regarding the process of moving drafts to the Misplaced Pages namespace instead of the main namespace. I understand the importance of adhering to proper workflows and ensuring that all actions align with community norms.

The movement of pages to the Misplaced Pages namespace is typically used for internal pages or supplementary content that supports the encyclopedia's infrastructure, such as policies, guidelines, and administrative tools. If my actions of moving drafts to this namespace are perceived as inappropriate or inconsistent with its intended purpose, I sincerely apologize for the confusion caused.

That said, I would like to provide clarification:

1. Intent of the Moves The decision to move drafts to the Misplaced Pages namespace was made to allow further collaboration, refinement, or discussion among editors before publishing in the main namespace. It is not my intention to misuse the Misplaced Pages namespace or disrupt its purpose.
2. Corrective Steps Moving forward, I will ensure that drafts, once ready, are moved directly to the main namespace unless there is a specific, community-approved reason to do otherwise. If any of the drafts currently in the Misplaced Pages namespace need reassignment, I am open to addressing them promptly.
3. Community Consultation I am happy to discuss this process with the appropriate editors or administrators to ensure alignment with community guidelines. Constructive feedback will help refine my understanding and adherence to the expected standards.

If there is a specific protocol or workflow I should follow for such cases, I would greatly appreciate your guidance. My goal remains to contribute positively and in accordance with Misplaced Pages’s best practices.

Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to resolving this matter collaboratively. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Jlwoodwa. Also there are currently 18 pages in the Misplaced Pages namespace: . Annh07 (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Looking at the text of what is now Draft:Marko Podgornik Verdev, I have concerns that there may be paid editing going on here that has not been disclosed. —C.Fred (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  I mention on every page that these are paid contributions. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good point. Draft talk:Outlook Publishing Ltd, for example, does contain the required paid-contributions disclosure. —C.Fred (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Can I move these pages to the mainspace with the paid contribution disclosure? Thekz Cos (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  No. None of them are suitable for mainspace at the moment; they are unsourced, poorly-sourced or sourced to primary sources, and much of the language is promotional. If they are moved to mainspace they would be deleted very quickly. You will need to fix the problems with them and present them through the WP:AFCREVIEW process. Black Kite (talk) 12:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Thekz Cos Not only is you moving the pages a violation of WP:Conflict of interest, but having to clean up messes like User:Thekz Cos/sandbox/Laurence Kemball-Cook → Laurence Kemball-Cook → Draft:Laurence Kemball-Cook is also a drain on administrative resources. —C.Fred (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  If Thekz Cos could respond without copy and pasting a large AI-generated spiel this time we might make some progress here. Right now I believe we've only received two, short, human responses. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Pickersgill-Cunliffe They do at least seem to be more responsive than the typical paid editor. They've undone their mistakes as best they could, and they made the paid editing disclosure in the first place. I'm willing to give a little benefit of the doubt with the AI response—I used AI to refine an email in the workplace recently, and I'm a native English speaker. I think the immediate concern on pages going into Misplaced Pages: space is solved; I don't think immediate administrative actions are needed, but at the same time, it's probably worth peeking in on their contributions from time to time and making sure they're moving in the right direction. —C.Fred (talk) 12:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  If there is any admin action here it should be to block based on incompetence. Thekz Cos, understand what people are saying and respond in your own words. You are being paid for your competence rather than an LLM's incompetence. And the description above of why you moved these to Misplaced Pages space almost exactly matches our use of Draft space. You were told, and agreed, to use it back in August. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Phil Bridger And now they're moving pages out of Draft: space back to their user space. I just gave a {{uw-move4}} warning and strongly suggested they not move any more pages without asking for assistance. —C.Fred (talk) 12:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  User partially blocked from moving pages for one week. —C.Fred (talk) 12:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Nigerian name project

There seems to be some project to add all Nigerian names to Misplaced Pages, based on unreliable sources (maybe centered around the wiki yorubaname.com) and without much care about our standards. I haven't been able to find any central page or responsible person though, and the number of editors and pages is quite overwhelming. While this had lead to a fair number of useful disambiguation pages, it has also produced many problematic pages, many of which I turned into redirects or have nominated for deletion. The latest example I reverted was this, turning the page about the surname Wale into a page about the first name, "a distinctive and culturally rich choice for a baby boy"...

Any help in dealing with this never-ending influx is welcome. Editors I encountered (probably a non-exhaustive list) include User:GladysJombo, User:Emmanuella643, User:Bembety, User:Halima Waziri, User:Airypedia, User:Aderiqueza, User:Tunde Akangbe, User:Abike25, ... Fram (talk) 13:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

All Nigerian names? Sounds pretty big. Can you give some diffs or examples? The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1 15:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Just check the recent contributions of these users. Ymblanter (talk) 15:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, or similar creations by people not even named in my original list, like Ogundele or Dupe (name). Fram (talk) 16:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@GreenLipstickLesbian looked into this, and from what she found it's likely from an editathon being organized in Nigeria. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 16:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Ridzaina (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing your concerns about the addition of Nigerian names to Misplaced Pages. I appreciate the opportunity to provide clarification regarding the project's purpose and processes and to address the points you have raised.

The primary goal of this project is to document indigenous Nigerian names on Misplaced Pages and Wikimedia Commons, addressing a significant gap in representation for culturally significant names.

To ensure compliance with Misplaced Pages's standards for verifiability and notability, participants have been guided to use reliable sources, such as books. The intention is not to create promotional or problematic content but to contribute meaningful and culturally significant information. As part of this effort, links to notable individuals bearing these names have been included in the articles to add context and relevance.

For the issues identified in some of the pages, the team has taken the following corrective measures:

1. Pauses the Campaign: The campaign has been temporarily paused to allow for a thorough cleanup.

2. Tracking Contributions: We are systematically tracking all the contributions from the beginning of the campaign.

3. Identify non-notable names for potential drafting or deletion under the A7 criteria.

4. Documenting for SIA: Names associated with a significant number of notable individuals, whether as surnames or given names, will be documented as an WP:SIA and categorized appropriately under Category:African given names.

I welcome your feedback and suggestions on how we can better align with Misplaced Pages’s guidelines and improve the quality of our contributions. Thank you once again for your input and collaboration. Cheers! Ridzaina (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:A7 doesn't apply to names. Did you use an AI to write this? jlwoodwa (talk) 05:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ridzaina: thanks for your answer (although we much prefer answers which don't look like they were written by an AI tool). Can you please have all discussions about this project somewhere on enwiki, so others can see e.g. the instructions and chime in if these are not policy-compliant? Problems with sourcing and so on can be much more easily solved if there is a central point of discussion, and it might have avoided an ANI discussion as well. Further, I see you started removing the yorubaname.com source as an unreliable source (good), but then for unclear reasons you selfreverted this. Why? Fram (talk) 10:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Fram. I can assure you that the ideas in the message were not generated by AI. I am the project coordinator, and I apologize for not introducing myself earlier. The message above clearly reflects the actions and decisions we have taken to address the current challenges.

Upon discovering this mention, my team and I had swung into action to address the anomalies that were discovered, even though we ensure weekly review and are constantly monitoring and updating our article list.

To ensure this discussion takes place at enwiki in order maintain transparency and promote better communication as you have proposed, could you please direct me to where the discussion can be held?

I reverted those edits to have this conversation and to confirm that it is indeed the best course of action.

Also, the primary reason I suggested A7 is that most of the names were created as articles. A7 applies to articles that lack any indication of importance, making it a suitable option. However, if there are other speedy deletion criteria that better align with the current situation, please suggest them, and we can apply them after completing the massive drafting effort we are currently undertaking to identify the faulty articles, as you can see below:

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/Abidoye

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/Aramide_(name)

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/Inioluwa

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/Abodunrin Ridzaina (talk) 15:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anthroponymy would seem a logical place, crossposting to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Nigeria to get input from and collaboration of Nigerian editors. The first project presumably knows the standards for such articles, the second has the knowledge of and interest in Nigerian topics. And editors with concerns about the results can then post there and smoothen things out before a lot of work is wasted. Fram (talk) 15:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Erobran

This user continues to add new flight service at Jorge Chávez International Airport (Turkish Airlines will start Lima to Istanbul flights in June without providing an exact date as per WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT. Left messages regarding and left him a link to the discussion but continues to argue and be nasty about it. 2600:1700:8544:D000:58A7:9DD1:E885:7BD4 (talk) 16:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Dude.

Is it you who removes useful relevant information? In doing so, it is you who is vandalizing.

the wikiproject referred to is NOT the official wikipedia rules!

the rules for wikipedia are simply that there must be a source when something is published. NOT ALL THE ELSE!

I have as much right to write as I do as you do! In addition, it is vandalism when you and the other person constantly undo my edit around a legal edit with sources!

if you also read the project it is also there. "Are not official guidelines"! Erobran (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:DR has lots of suggestions for resolving disputes. I suggest both OP and Erobran look at those.

And, Erobran, while it is natural to get upset in this situation, putting your emotions into your replies does not help, and probably hurts, the process of coming to a satisfactory resolution of an online disagreement. Please focus on the facts of the disagreement. Thank you. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

the rules for wikipedia are simply that there must be a source when something is published. No, this is completely wrong. Misplaced Pages has a massive number of policies and guidelines regarding what should be included, of which WP:Verifiability is only one small part. That page explicitly states that Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion and The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content (WP:VNOT). You should also read up on what WP:Vandalism is, it has a specific definition on wikipedia and mislabelling good faith edits as vandalism is going to get you into trouble. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 15:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Erobran - while I don't think this needed to be brought here (it's a bit of an escalation of a content dispute), can I suggest you take a look at WP:EW? If a bunch of people are reverting you, you need to go to the talk page and discuss your changes and get consensus for them. Don't just keep reinstating them or you'll end up blocked. Girth Summit _(blether) 17:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Girth Summit: User reverting at Istanbul Airport . 2600:1700:8544:D000:9D0E:3239:A3E:70F8 (talk) 18:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Just being clear their last revert at Istanbul Airport was prior to the submission of this incident so this is part of the original reported behaviour and not new behaviour after the report, right? Simonm223 (talk) 20:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Correct. 2600:1700:8544:D000:58A7:9DD1:E885:7BD4 (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've given Erobran some advice on why edit warring to force through their preferred version of these pages is problematic. I don't think that this needs any further action immediately; their editing seems to be somewhat sporadic, but if they continue in the same vein when they resume editing feel free to ping me from here if this hasn't been archived, or report at WP:ANEW. Girth Summit _(blether) 11:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
  • What I find problematic is his blatant disregard of community guidelines. The Banner talk 13:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

    Hi again "The Banner"

    Now I have read the elaboration. I am partially right in my claim that a WikiProject does NOT define when an edit is correct or incorrect. That would give me the right to edit as I had done WITHOUT specifying a start date. (If you read several other pages about airports, a start date is also not specified) That is why I took it as personal harassment!

    However, it must be said that I have NOT approached the matter sufficiently. What I should have done was to justify the decision instead of simply reversing an edit. I will do this in the future on the talk pages instead. Erobran (talk) 13:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:176.113.180.173

Persistent WP:NOTHERE. First time doing this so don't know if I need to provide specific diffs, but you can see the page history at History of Africa. I've tried to draw them into discussion at Talk:History of Africa#November 2024, and even compromise with the changes they keep trying to make. Their edits are substantially similar to the edits of User:NutmegCoffeeTea (notification of NCT) made a couple of days before, so it might be worth a check user, but I doubt it is her. The IP is clearly taking the piss and having fun, I templated them and they just templated me back. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

notification of IP Kowal2701 (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I've not been in this situation before, and haven't found access to all the different templates to use with newbies. I don't know what I could've done differently. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

General comment:Kowal2701, in a noticeboard complaint like this one, the OP is expected to supply diffs/edits that illustrate what the problem is with the editor's conduct. Otherwise, editors have to go looking for them which will lessen the chances that you'll get much feedback here. You want to make it obvious to others what the problem is but you haven't even stated what the issue is with this account's editing by identifying what guideline or policy they are violating. Assume your fellow editor is devoting 3-5 minutes to reviewing your complaint, can they easily see what's going on here? If not, they are likely to not offer you a response.

You don't need to apologize, no one expects an editor to make a full and comprehensive report the first time they open a complaint on ANI and, if you are lucky, an editor will tell you what your report is missing. ;-) Liz 20:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. The IP is clearly WP:not here to build an encyclopedia and keeps WP:edit warring for their preferred changes (their edits: ) while resisting attempts from others for collaboration (see ). They've been reverted by four different people (including me) for a total of 5 times (others' reverts: my reverts: ). They have been templated three times by three different people (including me) for unconstructive editing, vandalism, and edit warring (see User talk:176.113.180.173).

The edits are very similar to User:NutmegCoffeeTea's made two days before which I reverted (her edits: ). I want to clarify I'm not accusing NCT of anything, I just can't ignore the similarity of their edits, and wonder whether a check user might be warranted? Kowal2701 (talk) 21:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

This has been resolved with the page being protected, please feel free to archive this Kowal2701 (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the report – I hope semi-protection solves the disruption for now. Checkusers won't publicly connect IP addresses to accounts, so requesting a check wouldn't result in a different answer than " No comment". ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay thank you. I'll apologise to the user. Kowal2701 (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

This is very kind, thank you! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Ram112313 promoting Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha

Original heading: November 2024

This user appears to be on Misplaced Pages to promote their organization, as can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Ram112313 They have blanked out all their warnings and blocks on their talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Ram112313 I just added a final warning to their talk page. Thank you. Ram1751 (talk) 19:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Ram1751, thanks for the notification. Which organization exactly are they promoting? Can you provide multiple examples (diffs) where that organization was added to articles? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

They are promoting Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha - many WP:OR additions (some with an overtly promotional tone) and removal of sourced material not complimentary to the organization. See diffs here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=List_of_Hindu_temples_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=1255906861

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hindu_denominations&diff=prev&oldid=1205761794

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Shri_Radhika_Krishnashtaka&diff=prev&oldid=1255480033

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1254947172

- Ram1751 (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks!

I'd now like to hear a statement from Ram112313 or block for disruptively ignoring community concerns in case the editing continues without a statement being provided. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:45, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The edits to the Shri Radhika-Krishnashtaka article, as reflected in the edit history, demonstrate that the previous version was heavily skewed with a non-neutral tone, failing to align with Misplaced Pages's standards for balanced and unbiased content. Similarly, the changes made to the List of Hindu temples article included an incorrect claim that the Shri Ranganathaswamy Temple is larger than Swaminarayan Akshardham, which is factually inaccurate. As stated within the article itself, Swaminarayan Akshardham is indeed larger in both single structure size and hectares. Regarding the Swaminarayan Akshardham (New Jersey) edits, discussions are ongoing on the article's talk page, and no further updates have been finalized yet. Additionally, my other contributions, such as the edits to the Shikshapatri article, do not reflect any bias toward BAPS and adhere to Misplaced Pages's neutrality guidelines. The removal of sourced material in the Desh Lekh Vibhag edits was solely due to issues such as incorrect information, dead links, or non-verifiable sources, all of which are against Misplaced Pages's guidelines. These edits were made to ensure the article adheres to Misplaced Pages's standards for reliable and verifiable content. Ram112313 (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello ChatGPT, we'll need Ram112313's own words. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Isles of Scilly edit war

86.184.52.46 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and Uness232 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are engaged in an edit war at Isles of Scilly about climate classification. There is ongoing discussion/argument on the talk page, but it hasn't stopped the constant reversions. DuncanHill (talk) 00:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Uness232 is adding claims that the Scilly Islands, Bordeaux and Istanbul are "sub tropical" without providing any sources or gaining consensus on the talk page first.

Trewartha's climate classification clearly states that marine locations have to be frost-free. I've provided sources for this.

None of Uness232's claimed 'subtropical' locations are frost-free. Suggesting Scilly Islands, Bordeaux and Istanbul are 'subtropical' also defies common sense - look at the climate data for these places in winter! They are not subtropical by any definition.

I'm happy to stop editing.

But please consider the article history and the nature of Uness232's claims carefully before you pass judgment.

Allowing unsourced claims that places are "subtropical" when they are clearly not makes Misplaced Pages look unreliable and untrustworthy. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 00:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Both editors have been partially blocked from the article for 31 hours for edit warring. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I just wanted to chime in here to say that there are some serious bludgeoning issues as well in the discussion beneath the RFC, which doesn't seem to meet the neutrality requirements. I'm not really sure this is productive discussion behavior, and the IP editor also seems to have strangely used ChatGPT to try and prove their point? . I was browsing the RfCs in the history section, as I sometimes do, and I came upon the RFC and saw the strange discussion underneath. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 07:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your observations. I’d like to take this opportunity to refocus the discussion on the core issue at hand: the addition of contentious claims without reliable sources, particularly regarding the Isles of Scilly, Bordeaux, and Istanbul being "subtropical."

=== The Onus to Provide Reliable Sources ===

Per Misplaced Pages's Verifiability Policy (WP

), any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable, published source. The claim that these locations are subtropical clearly falls into this category, as it has been disputed and does not align with widely accepted climate classifications. Therefore, the onus is on Unes232 to provide reliable sources that explicitly support this assertion before adding or reinstating it into the article.

=== Adherence to Established Climate Definitions ===

The Trewartha climate classification, which appears to be the framework at issue, has specific criteria. If sources (like those already provided) indicate that frost-free conditions are a requirement for a subtropical marine classification, any proposed subtropical designation must align with this criterion. Otherwise, it constitutes original research, which is prohibited under Misplaced Pages's No Original Research Policy (WP

).

=== Consensus and Edit Warring ===

Unes232’s additions should have been discussed on the talk page prior to being added to the article, as required by WP

. This ensures that claims are properly evaluated by multiple editors before becoming part of the mainspace. Instead, repeated unsourced edits have led to edit warring, which disrupts collaboration.

=== Maintaining Misplaced Pages’s Credibility ===

Allowing poorly sourced or unsourced claims to remain damages Misplaced Pages’s reputation as a reliable reference. Per WP

, climate-related claims must be sourced from peer-reviewed literature, expert publications, or other authoritative sources. None of the disputed claims meet this standard, and relying on "common sense" or vague reasoning does not substitute for verifiable evidence.

=== Addressing the RFC and Discussion Tone ===

While I understand concerns about the RFC’s neutrality or discussion behaviour, these issues are secondary to ensuring that the article adheres to Misplaced Pages's core content policies. As editors, we are all responsible for improving articles, which includes removing unsourced or poorly sourced material and focusing discussions on the policies and evidence at hand.

I respectfully suggest that we redirect efforts toward sourcing robust, verifiable evidence for any disputed claims. If no reliable source can be found, the material cannot remain in the article. This is not about “winning” an argument but upholding Misplaced Pages's standards and credibility. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 11:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

This is ANI, which is about editor conduct, not content. Also considering the fact that you used ChatGPT as a source, I kinda heavily suspect this is AI Generated... Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. While I appreciate your input, I’d like to refocus on the actual issues here: proper sourcing, adherence to Misplaced Pages policies, and the conduct surrounding these edits.

=== The Core Issue: Unsourced Material and Policy Violations ===

The main concern is that Unes232 has repeatedly added unsourced material to the article, claiming the Isles of Scilly, Bordeaux, and Istanbul are subtropical under Trewartha classification. These additions:

• Lack reliable sources.
• Contradict existing sourced material, which defines subtropical regions under Trewartha as requiring frost-free conditions.
• Constitute original research if derived from editor interpretation rather than explicitly published material.

Furthermore, repeatedly re-adding contentious material without building consensus on the talk page violates WP policies.

. This pattern disrupts collaboration and undermines Misplaced Pages’s credibility.

=== Personal Attack and False Allegation ===

Your accusation of "using ChatGPT as a source" is both false and unsubstantiated. It is inappropriate to suggest that an editor’s arguments are invalid based on unfounded claims about how they were generated. This amounts to a personal attack, which detracts from constructive discussion and violates Misplaced Pages’s principles of respectful collaboration. Please focus on addressing the arguments and evidence presented rather than speculating about motives or methods.

=== Editor Conduct and ANI ===

This discussion is indeed about editor conduct. In this case, the conduct at issue is not the IP editor’s but rather Unes232’s repeated addition of unsourced material and removal of sourced content. These actions go against core content policies and have directly caused the edit war. My actions have been focused on enforcing Misplaced Pages’s guidelines by removing unsourced claims and ensuring that disputed content is backed by verifiable evidence.

=== Moving Forward ===

To resolve this, we must ensure that all claims about the Isles of Scilly's climate are:

1. Based on reliable, verifiable sources.
2. Added only after reaching consensus on the talk page.
3. Evaluated against established policies.

I invite all editors to focus on these principles and avoid personal attacks or unfounded accusations. Misplaced Pages thrives on collaborative, policy-driven discussions, and adhering to these standards will help us improve the article constructively. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 13:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Please stop writing essays with ChatGPT. qcne (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

86.184, please consider this an only warning: If you continue posting LLM boilerplate here (or at the article talk page , or in any other discussion venue) in lieu of actually engaging with your fellow editors, I will impose a sitewide block. --Blablubbs (talk) 14:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Ustadeditor2011

Ustadeditor2011 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user is repeatedly disrupting content at All We Imagine as Light. Among other changes, they are continuously suppressing a limited theatrical release date that is supported by reliable sources and claiming the release never occurred, providing no sources to back their claim. I opened a talk page discussion for consensus-building and have repeatedly warned them against restoring their desired versions to the article. They have ignored all warnings and continued to edit the page back to their version. They initially reverted my reversion by claiming to be reverting vandalism when the edits are not vandalism. They were previously warned by Toddy1 about making such claims, as well as receiving many other warnings about disruptive behavior and attacking users. Their previous behavior prompted an AN discussion which resulted in a partial block.

I have warned them against edit warring on their talk page here, same here, here and here. I have also warned them against edit warring in my reversion here and repeatedly in discussion at Talk:All We Imagine as Light#Re: edits by Ustadeditor2011, to no avail. After a final user talk warning in which I very clearly appealed for them to utilise the talk page of the article to demonstrate that their claims are verifiable by way of being supported by reliable sources and I requested that they not change the article without getting consensus first, they balked and reinstated their preferred version for the fifth time. Jon698 once again reverted these edits. Οἶδα (talk) 06:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Οἶδα: If he/she is edit warring, it would be better to close this report and make a report at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Such a report would require diffs showing that they were repeatedly reverting other editor's edits. -- Toddy1 (talk) 07:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Toddy1: I did not report this user at the edit warring noticeboard because their four reverts were performed in a 1-day 19-hour period. I figured that it would not qualify as being "just outside" the 24-hour period as stated at WP:3RR. Οἶδα (talk) 17:51, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Concerns Over Negative Content on Bunq Article and Potential Promotion of N26

"There seems to be an ongoing edit war on the Bunq page, with new autoconfirmed editors such as @Snarkyalyx, @Partydoos, and @Partylix making frequent changes. Despite reverting there changes and explaining other stuff exists. These editors doesn't seem concerned. Pridemanty (talk) 10:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Notices which Pridemanty overlooked have been placed, including to Partlyx whose username is misspelt above. Cabayi (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

As I've mentioned to an admin, for the record:

There's weird editing behaviour happening and me and other editors do believe there are users being paid for editing. I removed what I believe was puffery and re-introduced a removed controversy section. After I did that, a new user "Partlyx" was created to seemingly cause confusion; that user seems to be a combination of my name and the username of the person who first introduced a controversies section under "Partydoos". User Pridemarty keeps edit warring, committing changes to the page instead of properly discussing it with others.

Pridemanty responding "While highlighting achievements is important, it shouldn’t cross into promotional language or create unwarranted hype, as seen with terms like ‘landmark’ or ‘innovative’ without proper context." is extremely weird because I was there to remove that while they reverted my changes. They clearly don't read what I said, nor the contents of my edits. I believe there's COI.

Imo, there's a few giveaways that the article is written by Bunq themselves like citing where an info comes from in the body text.

Pridemanty has ignored many warnings and different editors asking for a proper discussion in the talk page.

It's also good to look at the talk page that points out other suspicious things about Pridemanty.to highlight: Snarkyalyx (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

to add, the whole N26 thing entirely came from the suspected sock puppet account of Pridemanty Snarkyalyx (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to point out User talk:Partlyx where both Partlyx and Pridemanty wrote a comment in an unusual way, with "quotation marks" around the whole comment. I am completely unfamiliar with sockpuppet investigations and do not want to accuse anyone of sockpuppetry, but I wanted to mention this for others here. win8x (talk) 14:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I've noticed this as well a few hours ago upon taking a glance at their user talk page. This compounds with the suspiciously close edit/revert times between 1258369954 (Partlyx) and the following 1258369979 (Pridemanty), only 20 seconds apart. With the usual latencies in MediaWiki (incl. watched page notifications), this seems too short to be organic. ElementW (talk) 15:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Reid Kennedy and probably competence problem

Reid Kennedy (talk · contribs) created autobio on their userpage twice, however, their contested on their talk page seemed all a mess. And they have showed an attitude of WP:IDHT and possible inclining of didn't want to comply with the rules of Misplaced Pages:Autobiography, I tried to invite them to WP:TH for help, but they replied with

Actually, less of any kind of academic question whatsoever.
This is well-researched, boldly presented, and thorough in its revelation of this young man's life and work.

-Lemonaka 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

We appear to have edited in response to this at two different pages Lemonaka. I added a level 3 warning which reflects where we're at in my opinion. I have little doubt that Reid Kennedy (talk · contribs) is rapidly heading towards a WP:NOTHERE block but not just yet. He may yet show the wisdom of the supreme court justice he claims to be. Cabayi (talk) 11:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Mm, took a swing at it myself on his talk page. We'll see how it goes. (sighs) Someday I'll figure out the motivation of those who are perpetually astonished that (a) rules exist, and (b) applies to Them!. Ravenswing 13:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've indeffed the user. Ridiculous tripe and then combative about the propriety of the garbage he created.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Violating the five pillars of Misplaced Pages

Dear administrators, I was redirected here from Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring by DatGuy.

Using repeated words against me like "dumb user", "trolling", "Complete nonsense" and "rude user", violates the fourth rule of the five pillars of Misplaced Pages.

I explained the editing of the article with these words: "SD does not meet the criteria. Tagging Adolphus79 who explained it here. The user has already been blocked from editing Yarden Gerbi due to continuous edit wars. His request to delete a video in commons was also declined."

The right step was to avoid edit warring. User:זור987 has not had ownership upon any article nor any Misplaced Pages. I am eligible to write any article I wish, which meets the criteria of that WP. Blaming me writing articles of any kind is also against the five pillars.

Dovno, who was a bureaucrat in the He WP, has already warned זור987 from editing Alex Fridman and Disabled, Not Half a Human Being in Hebrew, as shown here. Here I add that זור987 proposed "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" for deletion in the En WP.
זור987 also put a notability template upon "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" in the He WP, but was declined.

Erez Da Drezner meets the WP:NMODEL #1 and #2 criteria. The article describes visits of Da Drezner in two different hospitals in Ukraine, and his other deeds. The article also was written in February 5, 2021 and has not to be speedy deleted in 2024.

Therefore, I ask to block זור987, or at least block him from editing this article and its talk page. Thank you, --DgwTalk 13:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Dorian Gray Wild, tracking, stalking and rude to me all over the Wiki. Every edit that I doing on his articles, resulting in his revertings and now, he treating me with blocking about legitimate things that I've done in the Hebrew Misplaced Pages.

I think that someone needs to ask in Wikimedia to globally block this user. זור987 (talk) 13:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

OK so this is *not* the appropriate venue to discuss edit conflicts on Hebrew Misplaced Pages. The only thing I'll note is that this AfD looks malformed. I'd suggest going and fixing it so that it's properly indexed. Simonm223 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I have fixed the AfD nomination but have not investigated its merits. TSventon (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Simonm223, the words "a dumb user", "trolling", "Complete nonsense" and "This rude user" as well as "rude to me" were written by זור987 in the En WP, not in the He WP.

I was not rude to זור987, as I did not use any incorrect word.

I did not stalk anybody. FastilyBot notified me the speedy deletion, which was not legal as indicated here.

זור987's thought that "someone needs to ask in Wikimedia to globally block this user" is not legal neither, because he did not notify my talk page. DgwTalk 14:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

A 2-way i-ban might be a good remedy here. Simonm223 (talk) 15:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Lingayat Vani

Report against: User:PerspicazHistorian article: Lingayat Vani

@Daniel Case, Bradv, Vanamonde93, Ekdalian, and Bobby Cohn:

The user created two article for same topic he is not a good faith editor please check below, how he manipulated Lingayat related article, he was blocked multiple times for his edit war, he is accusing other editors who removed his content as vandals,

• Draft:Lingayat Vani (caste) this article was created on 23 May 2024 by him, it was rejected by User:Bobby Cohn on 4 September 2024.

• The user created another article about same topic Lingayat Vani on 10 July 2024.

The Lingayat Vani is still not reviewed but it is indexed on search engine.

He created this article by adding some bullshit to his previous draft , from other unrelated article content, so that his Lingayat Vani article will become a well cited article, so he can promote his Hindutva agenda by calling other editors as Vandals .😂

I will give you some examples why the article is not related to Lingayat Vani

Infobox

• heraldic_title:Appa, Rao, Desai Both ref doesn't mentiones such titles
• population: 8.5 to 10 Million in Maharashtra the ref is about estimated total Lingayats in Maharashtra, if total Lingayats in Maharashtra is 8.5 to 10 Million than how can the subcaste also have same population ?

Lead

The Lingayat Vani community (marathi: लिंगायत वाणी) is an Indo-Aryan ethnolinguistic group who are native to Maharashtra in western India. They belong to Veershaiv sect of Hindu Shaivism and are also referred to as Veershaiv-Lingayat Vanik or Lingayat Balija or Vira Banajiga or Bir Vanigas. The name Vani is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Vanijya' which means trade.The Vira Banajigas were a trading caste. His own doctoral thesis WP:NOR

They rejected the custodial hold of Brahmins over Vedas and shastras but did not outright reject the Vedic knowledge. They worship all gods and believe them to be a form of Shiva only. The 13th-century Telugu Virashaiva poet Palkuriki Somanatha, the author of the scripture of Lingayatism, for example asserted, "Virashaivism fully conformed to the Vedas and the shastras." He copied this content from Lingayatism#Vedas and shastras without attribution, WP:ATTREQ

• Shiva article mentions history, mythology etc... can we copy Shiva article into every Temples articles of Shiva, does it make any sense?,
• Indian constitution is applicable to every place of India, can we copy Indian constitution into every state , district, city, villeges articles of India, because they follow same constitution. does it make any sense?
• The same logic applies here also no need this paragraph. It is not exclusive for Lingayat vani, Lingayat vani is just sub caste of Lingayatism

Origin

Starting in the thirteenth century, inscriptions referring to "Vira Balanjyas" (warrior merchants) started appearing in the Andhra country. The Vira Balanjyas represented long-distance trading networks that employed fighters to protect their warehouses and goods in transit.

These traders formed collectives called pekkandru and differentiated themselves from other collectives called nagaram, which probably represented Komati merchants. The pekkandru collectives also included members of other communities with status titles Reddy, Boya and Nayaka.

• The above content is copied from Balija#Origins,
• how it is related to Lingayat Vani, why he added it into lingayat vani.

The Five Hundred guild, known as Ayyavole in Kannada, Ayyavolu in Telugu, Aryarupa in Sanskrit operated in Southern India and Southeast Asia. They became more powerful under the Cholas. They were protectors of the Veera-Banaju-Dharma, that is, law of the heroic or noble merchants. The Bull was their symbol which they displayed on their flag; and they had a reputation for being daring and enterprising.

• The above content is copied from Five Hundred Lords of Ayyavolu lead section 2nd paragraph,
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

A rock shaped like an axe on the Malaprabha river bank north of the Aihole village in karnataka is associated with the legend of Parashurama, the sixth Vishnu avatar, who is said to have washed his axe here after killing abusive Kshatriyas who were exploiting their military powers, giving the land its red colour. A 19th-century local tradition believed that rock footprints in the river were those of Parashurama.

• This above content is copy from Aihole#History second paragraph.
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

Varna Status

The Vira Banajigas were a trading community. Historians like Velcheru Narayana Rao and Sanjay Subrahmanyam noted that the emergence of this right-hand caste as trader-warrior-kings in the Nayaka period is a consequence of conditions of new wealth produced by collapsing two varnas, Kshatriya and Vaishya into one.

• The above contact is copied from Balija#Varna status
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

After being placed in the shudra category in the 1881 census, Veershaivas demanded a higher caste status. Lingayats persisted in their claims for decades. In 1926, the Bombay High Court ruled that "the Veerashaivas are not Shudras."

• copy from second paragraph of Lingayatism#Varna-status debates (19th–20th century)

RI 17:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

What admin action are you looking for here? The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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17. Rao, V. Narayana; Subrahmanyam, Sanjay (2009). "Notes on Political Thought in Medieval and Early Modern South India". Modern Asian Studies. 43: 175–210. doi:10.1017/S0026749X07003368.
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