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Southasianhistorian8

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Southasianhistorian8

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

GhostOfDanGurney (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Southasianhistorian8 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 21:37, November 12 Ignores WP:ONUS, edit warring in order to restore POV-pushing/WP:COATRACK content after that content had been removed by Nyttend.
2. 02:11, November 14 Repeats the same WP:COATRACK behaviour at another article, just over 24hrs after Nyttend (a longstanding administrator) warned them about WP:COATRACK on their talk page.
3. 08:49 November 14 Personal attack towards me on their userpage in response to sharing my concern about diff2 and agreeing with Nyttend, claims I'm "piling on my t/p over a topic that does not concern you as a form of petty bullying/harassment and revenge." (bolding mine; Nyttend was the only other user with a message on their talk page)
4. 10:05 November 14 Leaves a retaliatory message on my talk page, spurned by my reverting of their edit in diff2.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 20:47, 2022 May 30 Indeff'd for abusing multiple accounts in the area of conflict as per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Suthasianhistorian8/Archive. Unblocked in December 2022 following a standard offer.
2. 19:06, 2021 November 11 48hrs for edit warring in the area of conflict.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 16:31, 2021 November 27 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

SAH continues to push their anti-Sikh POV into articles. Diff1 shows them adding repetitive content which was already covered in the article, not to mention that it has its own article. Repeating in such detail can only be interpreted as an attempt to draw a equivalency between Khalistan movement and the Canada-India row that is not supported by sources.

Diff2 shows them doing them same at Hardeep Singh Nijjar, using that article as a COATRACK to add content about a tangentially relevant person, content which belong in an article about that person, and attempting to further their POV that Nijjar was a "militant".

Diffs 3 and 4 showcase an unwillingness to self-reflect when conduct concerns are brought up, getting defensive with personal attacks, retaliatory warnings, and digging up of past dirt (which they already mentioned in the last AE thread about them). At no point do they acknowledge WP:COATRACK either in response to Nyttend or myself.

Contribution history shows they nearly-exclusively edit about Sikh topics, suppressing positive information and restoring negative information. Talk page history shows numerous NPOV warnings. At this point, we either have a LISTENing issue or a WP:NOTHERE issue. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  17:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@103.251.217.66: I disagree with your evaluation of this as only a content dispute. I am reporting conduct; specifically violations of WP:EW (after the user made an agreement to never edit war as part of their SOCK unblock request), WP:NPOV, and WP:NPA. I am aware that AE does not and should never rule on content. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  01:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Has SAH gotten a waiver of the word limit that I'm not aware of? They are at 1552 by my count. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  02:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: While BLPCRIME is a reason why I reverted diff 2, it was not the only reason, with the other reason being that I felt SAH was pushing a POV using WP:COATRACK edits, something they had been warned about 24 hours previously for the edit in diff 1. My issue with the edit to Hardeep Singh Nijjar re: Arsh Dalla is beyond the BLPCRIME issue. It goes into the aspect of using another person's arrest to further a POV that Nijjar was a militant extremist.

The fact that SAH filed a report about Simonm223 to AN today for simply trying to engage with SAH at SAH's talk page, then WP:BADGERed voorts at voort's talk page after voorts closed the thread shows that SAH's conduct is the primary issue, not the content of any article. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  23:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: it is at DRN on referral by Voorts after SAH made a thread reporting Simonm223 at ANI , was warned for forum shopping, then badgered voorts at their talk page The DRN has new posts tonight that I still need to catch up on. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  02:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

...Okay, seriously, this is getting out of hand now. SAH's response to being asked to state concisely what they want to change that another editor wants to leave the same at DRN is to post a wall of text outlining their entire rationale to insert what they call "a brief few sentences or paragraphs" (huh?). Is this not WP:BLUDGEONING of a discussion? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  02:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Southasianhistorian8

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Southasianhistorian8

Statement by Southasianhistorian8

• (Note, below is SAH's original statement, the one people have commented on. The altered statement, where he removed/changed the things others had criticised, so that their criticism no longer made sense, can be found here. See my comment down in the admin section (in a moment from now) for why I've put their original statement back. Bishonen | tålk 09:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC).)

Talk about desperation. Any outsider can take a look at my handling on Khalistan movement and see that I handled myself very responsibly as opposed to GhostofDanGurney who keeps lobbing personal attacks at editors he dislikes. I only made one revert, and when Nyttend posted on my t/p, I told him I would not revert further, and initiated a discussion on the t/p. The content I added was literally a direct result of the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a Khalistan activist, and the RCMP's allegations of India's operations against Khalistan activists, so clearly the event is relevant to the page at least to some degree and I'm extremely confident that editors at 3O or DRN will agree. The content there wasn't even authored by me, I copied it (with attribution) from the Canada-India diplomatic row. If I was so biased, wouldn't I be trying to suppress this information? I figured that precluding such a consequential event would be irresponsible and make it appear as though the page was skewed towards a pro-India narrative. What more do you want from me?

Now, in line with GhostofDanGurney hastily making edits to get one over me such as here-where he engaged in interpretation of a primary source to publicy discredit a figure, as confirmed by ScottishFinnishRadish on A/E, here where he falsely accused me of plagiarizing his workNow he falsely called Arsh Dalla a "low profile" individual thus wrongly invoking BLPCRIME; Ghost could have spent at least 10 minutes researching this guy or at least initiated a respectful discussion on the t/p instead of piling attacks on my t/p. Instead he made a rude condescending post on my t/p, threatening to escalate matters and stating that I need to confirm whether I understand Misplaced Pages's policies to him, as if he's my boss or something. He has yet to engage in the t/p of the article where I laid out sources and arguments, instead coming here to again win a content dispute illegitimately.

Now just days after his failed A/E request where he was also criticized for making personal attacks and making nonconstructive edits, he's again wasting everyone's tie over this drama. This ridiculous BATTLEGROUND behaviour should not be given carte-blanche here.Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 19:27, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@GhostofDanGurney- Is one revert on the Khalistan movement page, in which I believed the removal from Nyttend to be a simple misunderstanding and subsequently went on the t/p, and zero reverts on the Hardeep Singh Nijjar page - for a grand total of one revert considered "edit warring". If so, you've edit warred hundreds of times as well Ghost. You've also told people to "fuck themselves", called them "thots" and "hypocrites" and more; I've never come close to saying something like that. Again, I strongly urge admins to issue a block for these juvenile insults. Literally every disagreement on his t/p is met with a nasty response-, . This ill-researched statement is like the last time when you falsely accused me of plagiarizing your work.

Regarding, allegations of BLPCRIME or Dalla's low-profile/non public figure status-I've laid out a comprehensive case here-which shows extensive media coverage surrounding Dalla + sources in which Dalla clearly gave interviews to the media thus making him a high profile person as per Wiki policy. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 03:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Black Kite, I saw a thread on the article's t/p in which two editors expressed a desire to move the paragraph about the diplomatic row in the lead of the article. I removed the paragraph from the lead, and intended to move it and expand on it in the body of the article, but was unexpectedly called away before I could. By the time I returned, you had reverted me. In hindsight, I should have made my 2nd intended edit immediately afterwards and linked the t/p discussion, so my apologies for that. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 03:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

(End of original statement)

@Bishonen:, those year old edit summaries are part of a continuing pattern of Ghost's hostility to anyone who disagrees with him, even as recent. The underlying behaviour hasn't changed at all, he was making inflammatory edit summaries, which SFR acknowledged in the first A/E not too long ago- + , then right after that he took a quote from a primary source and framed it in a very inflammatory way (also acknowledged by SFR) to clearly cause irritation. His t/p reveals numerous attacks against people who disagree with him as recent as 2023-ironically it was him who did not have consensus and . He also admitted to messaging Kautilya3 on Twitter after a heated content dispute, which is pretty absurd.

As for this edit-, I explicitly stated that it shouldn't have been in the lead-Please gain WP:CONSENSUS to add this to the article's lead, in accordance with the t/p discussion. I already apologized for the poor communication on my part here (I should have stated my intention to move and expand the para and linked the t/p discussion) and admit that I should take care to not add WIP edits, but I feel like AGF should apply here, especially when I already apologized and it involves my private life. I'm willing to own up to when I make a mistake.Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 04:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

In all, I think that a good solution to this conflict(s) would be a 2 way IBAN between Ghost and myself, after the DRN or any other consensus building forum has concluded. Our editing seems to primarily intersect at two pages-Hardeep Singh Nijjar and Canada-India diplomatic row out of the many hundreds of pages we've edited, the C-I row is not a page I'm particularly interested in anymore. There may be more developments on those two pages surrounding the ongoing criminal investigation, but that's not something I'm too interested in and will likely not make edits towards. I'm committed to resolving the Nijjar content dispute peacefully through consensus, and I hope Ghost will too, and I'll also commit to avoiding GoDG as much as possible from hereon. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 05:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz, I agree, but a lot of my earlier thoughts/responses were unorganized as this a pretty complicated, high stress dispute. Would me linking my earlier responses be a good solution? Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 07:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Note: This was my previous statement(s) up until 21 November 4:38 , I substantially altered it for length and because a lot of the responses were spur of the moment/unorganized-. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 07:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Would also like to point that Bishonen is not an uninvolved administrator and is posting in the wrong section. We've had disagreements in the past regarding a blocked user's sock/meat status-. That was a case in which I and another administrator believed the blocked account to be a sock, while Bishonen believed them to be a m/p.Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 10:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

We've had 2 disagreements in the past over users alleged to be HaughtonBrit socks barely a few months ago. In the other case, a user who was initially deemed to be "unrelated" to HaughtonBrit, was later deemed a "possible indicator of sockpuppetry" after my report highlighted significant developments in their editing patterns. I believed the user to be a sock, Bishonen stated that she believed that they weren't. Given the contested nature of the latter disagreement, I dont think Bishonen counts as uninvolved administrator. This is what WP:UNINVOLVED states:Involvement is construed broadly by the community to include current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors), and disputes on topics, regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute.

The sockmaster in question was also someone whose sock reports sometimes faced significant opposition from admins, and it turned I was correct multiple times-in this case for example, an admin was looking to close my report, and it turned out that the user reported was making numerous edits logged out in violation of their block, which they themselves admitted to on their t/p- Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 11:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish, could you provide your view on this? Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 12:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish:, I feel like a topic ban is unnecessary. It shouldn't be ignored that this A/E request is primarily based of a content dispute which is currently underway at DRN-. It should also be highlighted that I provided detailed and policy backed reasons for my proposed changes there, whereas G and Simonm gave curt one sentence responses. Is that not telling? I sincerely request that I be allowed to participate in the consensus building. It should also be noted that I did not edit war anywhere, and am making sincere efforts to gain consensus for my changes.

I also do a lot of work in cleaning up articles in this topic area, which is inundated with POV pushing, poor sourcing and lackluster content. Could you please consider allowing the DRN to conclude and a later IBAN between me and Ghost? I strongly believe that would cease any further conflicts. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 12:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I also feel like my inexperience and mistakes at A/E shouldn't dictate the fate of my editing in the Misplaced Pages mainspace, which are vastly different from each other. The vast majority of my editing in the main space and on talk pages is productive, and I've worked to arrive consensuses consistently over the past 2 years. The dispute between Ghost and myself became so acrimonious and litigious, that it's impossible to handle both discussing on the article t/p, DRN, and handling numerous dogpiles on A/E. Again @ScottishFinnishRadish, please consider an alternative. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 13:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish, could you please let me know if something else other than a topic ban is on the table? Again, I find it punitive when I'm contributing substantially to the DRN and trying to seek a consensus there. Can we at least not see the assessment of other editors in that content dispute and what they make of Ghost and Simon's BLP/coatrack claims? Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 13:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Scratch that. Honestly, after seeing the immense toxicity on this site, where numerous editors dog-pile on you, lob false accusations against you, gaslight you and arm-twist you into believing their falsehoods, and just in general playing favourites with those in their own clique, all to get one over someone else in a content dispute, I've realized that Misplaced Pages is no longer a suitable place for me.

I would request an indef site ban for myself, and I do not intend to make any more edits here. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 14:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bishonen An indef site block would be good, and allow me to start a new chapter in life. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (103.251.217.66 (talk))

• I think both needs to calm down. both should talk on the article talk page before making changes to the article and stop reverting changes.
• I see this is only as content dispute... I don't think Southasianhistorian8 is attacking you op.. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1255952101 you should assume good faith.. and you are also trying gatekeep article it seems to me... https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row#NPOV

Statement by Simonm223

I would concur that both editors should probably both get some space from each other for a few days. A short-duration 2-way iBan might be a reasonable remedy here. Most of the edits in contention from both editors don't seem disruptive although both could be a bit more careful with sourcing to avoid primary sources and to ensure that secondary sources are included in major edits. The only point of contention I'd take with either's position (as I don't think either is actually entirely wrong so much as operating at cross-purposes) surrounds the interpretation of WP:BLPCRIME. Arsh Dalla is not a public figure per the definition laid out by WP:PUBLICFIGURE because his notoriety is entirely from the circumstances of him having been accused of a crime. As such the guidance, editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime very much applies here. Simonm223 (talk) 19:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@Southasianhistorian8 there is a key difference between Bishnoi and Dalla. Bishnoi stood trial and was convicted. My understanding is that Canada has declined to arrest and extradite Dalla. As such, since he is a free person and considered innocent both under Canadian law and by Misplaced Pages's standards, and since all the media coverage around him is about whether he did any criminal acts, we should not be commenting on him on Misplaced Pages. I hope this clarifies WP:BLPCRIME for you. Simonm223 (talk) 20:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Honestly my attempt to provide some friendly help regarding the BLPCRIME issue has left me a bit more concerned about WP:IDHT than I was at the outset. Especially since WP:OSE statements do not override BLP policy. Simonm223 (talk) 23:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully my last comment here I just want to apologize to @GhostOfDanGurney for originally interpreting this as a two-way interaction problem. I saw this and tried to sincerely help Southasianhistorian8 and the result was an ANI complaint, a DRN page and several repetitive textwalls. This is much more of a WP:BATTLEGROUND situation than I initially assumed with Southasianhistorian8 specifically and, what's worse, they appear to assume any attempt to assist them is an attack. I have struck my initial comments about a 2-way i-ban as I no longer believe that would be an effective remedy. Simonm223 (talk) 13:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Swatjester

Regardless of which side is correct on the merits of the arguments, it does *not* help SAH's case that they've presented their opposition to Ghost of Dan Gurney in an uncivil and excessively inflammatory manner. "he clearly has an extreme vendetta against and is desperate to hound me off this page" fails to assume good faith. So does accusing them of having "a long history of suppressing any critical information on the page... saw this opportunity and rushed to try to hound me further." Vaguely handwaving at a previous report does not suffice to make that anything less than an aspersion. Saying "I find it reprehensible that this bullying behaviour has carte-blanche on Misplaced Pages" is both uncivil, inflammatory, and presumes that the behavior is 1) bullying, and 2) has "carte-blanche" despite this AE request existing and there having been discussion about it in multiple talk page forums already. Regardless of how this AE gets decided, I'd admonish SAH to find a more constructive, less inflammatory way of expressing their positions. I think all involved would do well to be reminded that in a contentious topic area you need to be on your best behavior. ⇒SWATJester 21:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Black Kite

SAH is still - whilst this AE is continuing and having started a DRN on the topic themselves - removing sourced and DUE information at Hardeep Singh Nijjar . Quite bizarre behaviour, almost like they want to be sanctioned. Black Kite (talk) 21:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• The claim that Bishonen is not uninvolved here is so ridiculous that it's verging on WP:CIR. Black Kite (talk) 11:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Tiggerjay

I've had several of the articles that SAH has been editing come up on various boards that I monitor. Unfortunately, I've been unable to positively contribute for a lack of time to read through the wall of text that SAH generates through their apparent POV-pushing style, and then sometimes Wikilawyering to support their POV. While I think that the situation is primarily one-sided, and GDG is doing a fair job of handling it well, just a reminder that the integrity of WP is not solely upon him to keep other editors in line, and perhaps not taking it too personally. I think a formal TBAN with 500 edits is a good place to start for SAH, and perhaps, if anything, an IBAN for GDG. TiggerJay (talk) 21:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Southasianhistorian8

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Southasianhistorian8, you're at three times your limit and no admins have commented yet. You need to trim about a thousand words. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  I haven't had the time to look into this in-depth, but I plan to in the next couple days. In the meantime, has anyone started a thread at BLPN? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Okay, I've looked into this a bit more, but even based on their behavior at this report, the bludgeoning and walls of text, the incivility, and the retaliatory filing below I'm thinking at least a 3-6 month and 500 edit topic ban for tendentious editing with the hope that it will be enough of a sanction that their behavior will be better when they return. I'm also open to an indef topic ban if other admins believe that they should have to offer some proof of constructive editing to return to the topic area.

  Bishonen, what SAH linked to was a discussion of your administrative actions and fulfilling WP:ADMINACCT does not make you involved. I don't see any issues with involvement here. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• This seems like a plain dispute over interpretation of BLPCRIME with respect to an edit that was made yesterday, but instead of a discussion at WP:BLPN, there are three enforcement threads visible on this page and another at WP:AN. Perhaps the editors involved should try BLPN first, or other forms of dispute resolution, instead of running here to get each other banned? Ivanvector (/_Edits) 15:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• I encouraged these editors to take their dispute to DRN. I think everyone needs to de-escalate, step away from the article, and let the process at DRN play out. If that fails and this acrimony continues, IBANs, TBANs, or page restrictions might be needed. voorts (talk/contributions) 03:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• I also haven't had time to research this properly, but I've noticed without difficulty that SAH's behaviour on this very page is poor. SAH, you point out that GhostOfDanGurney told someone to go fuck themselves in 2018, (near the beginning of their Misplaced Pages career) called somebody else a thot in the same year, and you "strongly urge admins to issue a block for these juvenile insults". A block? Six years after the fact? Please don't air ancient history at AE, especially when it has nothing to do with the matter in hand. I see you offer the same diffs and others from your historical collection in the retaliatory report below, too. I'm also interested to see your explanation of Black Kite's point that during this AE, you removed sourced and DUE information at Hardeep Singh Nijjar, 'almost like want to be sanctioned'. You explain that two editors on Talk wanted to "move" the information, and therefore you re-moved it, intending to move it to the body and even, virtuously, expand on it there, but were interrupted at this very point. This statement of yours flies in the face of a) your edit summary for the removal, and b) what you yourself said about it on Talk. In view of that, the drama where you are "unexpectedly called away" is unfortunately not credible. Bishonen | tålk 04:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
• Just noting that I think Southasianhistorian8 has rewritten much of their statement here today. Many comments others have referred to are now absent from their statement. I know that the length of their content was a concern but I don't think a participant should basically rewrite their original statement in response to other editors' complaints. It's confusing when one tries to understand the flow of the discussion. Liz 06:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Yes, indeed they have, and that's not acceptable. Before I commented, I counted SAH's words to see if they had complied with shortening their statement. Yes, they had, it was 554 words. Then, after I had complained about poor behaviour, specifically asking admins to block G over ancient diffs, and trying to explain away Black Kite's complaint of disruption during this case, they "substantially altered it for length and because a lot of the responses were spur of the moment/unorganized". That's one way of putting it. Another would be that after my criticism and Simon223's, they removed the things we criticized. That's unacceptable on talkpages, and just as unacceptable here. Linking to the old version doesn't help much. You simply shouldn't have done it. I have restored the version I commented on, with a link to your new, massaged, less "spur of the moment" version. The time to think is before you post here, not after people have told you what's wrong with it. Note, if you decide to no longer offer an argument that's been criticized, you may of course disown it. But that's done by crossing it out, like this. Not by removing it. Bishonen | tålk 09:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC).

SAH now suggests I'm not an uninvolved admin. I think I am, and I hope one or more admin/user here will please follow SAH's link to evaluate this putative involvement. Bishonen | tålk 11:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC).

ScottishFinnishRadish, I'm not sure what the "500 edit" means in your proposed t-ban? Bishonen | tålk 13:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC).

The need to both wait 3 or 6 months and make 500 edits outside of the topic area. This way they have to demonstrate constructive editing elsewhere rather than waiting out the tban. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• I am good with SFR's suggested 3 or 6 months (I lean 6) topic ban AND making 500 substantial edits outside the topic area (by "substantial" I mean not just adding commas or moving around stuff, but engaging with content and showing that they understand how to use reliable sources and how to edit collaboratively) Ealdgyth (talk) 14:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Indef now? In view of this post by SAH, is it time for an indef block? Or (my preference) should we instead give them a chance to calm down? Bishonen | tålk 16:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC).

  I would give them a chance to calm down. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Southasianhistorian8, you don't need to quit editing or be indefinitely blocked. You just have to continue to be a productive editor without getting yourself into disputes. I don't see any favoritism here in this discussion. But when I look over your most recent 200 edits in your contribution history, almost all have to do with arguments with other editors. Can you coexist with editors you don't agree with? That's what the rest of us do. And, believe me, there are longtime editors here who have had disagreements with each other that are deeper and longer-lasting than your dispute with GhostOfDanGurney...we just keep a distance between us and do not provoke each other. Remember, this is not just an editing project but a collaborative one so you have to be able to collaborate even when not agreeing. Can you do that? Liz 04:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• I'm seeing a rough consensus for a 6 month and 500 edit topic ban. Any objections? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  Just for clarity, is that indicating that the ban expires after 6 months or 500 edits, whichever comes later? Seraphimblade 04:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  Correct. They have have both 500 new edits and have passed six months. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

GhostOfDanGurney

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Ecrusized

Loveforwiki

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Loveforwiki

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Capitals00 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Loveforwiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPAK

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 23 October - Whitewashing with misleading edit summary. Trying to show that allegiance with Nazism and Imperial Japan is considered bad only in the western world.
2. 27 October - Repeated the above again.
3. 25 October - Created this POV redirect "Bharat country" because he wasn't successful over changing the page on Bharat.
4. 1 November - added a conspiracy theory
5. 9 November - Removes reliably sourced content with dubious edit summary
6. 13 November - Restores his edits without gaining consensus even after being told earlier not to do this.
7. 13 November - Restores his above edit again by using aggressive edit summary
8. 17 November - Suppresses the word "Hindutva" despite the subject being known for it
9. 23 November - Removes the mention of "Trinamool Congress" by locating them to Pakistan

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I don't think this editor cares about the consensus process or anything else. He is here mainly to promote Hindutva agenda. Capitals00 (talk) 04:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Loveforwiki

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Loveforwiki

<moved from Capitals00's section> I am not such kind of user. I adds contents with reliable sources. Sorry if anyone gets such vibes.. Sorry to.l Misplaced Pages communities. Love for Misplaced Pages always. Loveforwiki (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Loveforwiki

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I appreciate it can be frustrating to edit in a topic area where your views are often in the minority. If you find yourself in such a position, you'll need to come to talk pages with high-quality reliable sources (in high-profile contentious topics, scholarly sources may be needed to convince others). Using misleading edit summaries, attacking other editors (rather than focusing on content) and edit warring are incompatable with editing in a contentious area. Here, and with a previous warning , they do not seem interested in acknowledging fault and learning from mistakes. They continue to tag edits as minor that aren't, after being asked to stop in September. Further edits outside of the field () indicate there may be a broader competence issue here. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 10:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  User:loveforwiki: could you please answer my request to explain when you need to provide attribution in your edit summary? And explain what edit warring is (you denied you were engaged in an edit war on India before).

• I think the most AGF reading of this is that there is a CIR/language issue that is making it difficult to communicate effectively instead of deliberate POV pushing. Either way, I don't think they're a positive in the topic area. For me, the question is if there is a narrow topic ban that would be effective rather than the standard IPA. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  You're thinking about a carve-out of cinema and sport? Are they neatly separated from politics in India, or do conflicts flow over to these topics a lot? I'm open to a narrower topic ban, but I do wonder if the CIR/language issue isn't going to lead to problems elsewhere. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 08:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  From what I've seen there can be quite a significant amount of crossover, e.g. The Kashmir Files. This, along with few admins being very familiar with the topic, is why the topic bans in ARBIPA so often end up covering the whole kit and kaboodle. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• I was ready to just go ahead and block, but I'd be content with an ARBIPA ban. It'd functionally be the same thing. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 13:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Rasteem

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Rasteem

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 07:15, 21 September 2024 - Introduces close paraphrased content into an article
2. 04:14, 30 October 2024 - Moves a page against the naming convention.
3. 02:59, 1 November 2024 - Edit wars over the same page move with another user while calling it vandalism .
4. 13:52, 9 November 2024 - Does not understand that he is edit warring in spite of being warned about it and doing exactly that.
5. 13:58, 9 November 2024 - Labels edit warring warning he received from me as "retaliatory" when I never interacted with him before this encounter.
6. 14:21, 9 November 2024 - Calling a general sanctions alert on caste topics as a "retaliatory warning".
7. 00:51, 10 November 2024 - Accuses another editor of POV pushing when no one other than him was making a pseudohistorical claim that Zafar Khan of Muzaffarid dynasty was a Jat contravening the academic discussion on the same.
8. 03:00, 10 November 2024 - Claims that he only made a single revert when he has made 3 in 24 hours.
9. 01:32, 10 November 2024 -Misidentifying an academic Priyanka Khanna with a fashion designer to remove sourced content
10. 11:28 10 November 2024 - Removes good faith talkpage message about above and a general note regarding using minor edits while calling them retaliatory.
11. 01:49, 15 November 2024 - Does not understand WP:BRD, immediately restores his content after being reverted and then asks others to follow BRD.
12. 17:31, 15 November 2024 - Tells others to follow WP:BRD while edit warring to restore his own edits that were reverted, the irony is lost on him.
13. 01:13, 18 November 2024 - Tries to poison the well against me based on a made up on the spot rule ("2RR") when I simply gave my feedback which was requested by an Admin before granting their WP:PERM/RB request.
14. 02:00, 25 November 2024 - Abuses warning templates on a new user's talkpage and then reverts the user when they clear their page. Also review this revision history of their page to see the severity of abuse of warning templates and WP:BITEY behaviour.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Date Explanation
2. Date Explanation

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
• Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on Date (see the system log linked to above).
• Gave an alert about contentious topics in the area of conflict to another editor, on Date
• Participated in process about the area of conflict (such as a request or appeal at AE, AN or an Arbitration Committee process page), on Date.
• Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict, on Date.
• Placed a {{Contentious topics/aware}} template for the area of conflict on their own talk page.
• Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Rasteem is repeatedly failing to meet the standards of acceptable behavior, biting new users, and assuming hostility and bad faith on the part of established editors. His editing in this topic area has been tendentious.Despite being alerted sanctions on caste and WP:ARBIPA, he continues to take part in this behavior and displays WP:CIR issues. There may also be a language barrier given his poorly written or incomprehensible responses. To prevent further disruption in this highly contentious area, I believe a topic ban is the minimum necessary measure here.Nxcrypto Message 10:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a lot to unpack in the wall of text posted by Rasteem.

• 6th - This is entirely misleading . You did not address how my warning was retaliatory, in fact you are basically still saying that my first ever interaction with you was still somehow retaliatory, this explains it better than I can do
• 7th -It was not a copy edit, you used a poor cited source(that doesn't have an author) for pushing his caste as Jat, the source in question & quotation in question was added by you in the first place.Misplaced Pages is not a place for boosting a certain caste.
• 8th - You say that you understand what 3RR is but you are still claiming that making 3 reverts in 24 hours violates it which is not correct.
• 10th - If you are allowed to remove your messages after you read them, why did you restore your warnings on a newcomer's talkpage, if they have removed it themselves?
• 13th - Bringing up the conduct of other users in order to make their comments less valid when your own edits are under scrutiny is classic Poison the well fallacy. Your continued attempt to defend that hostile stance there is concerning
• 14th - You were simply told to leave warnings, not abuse them, abuse is when you give warnings that are not appropriate. I can see that you have given that user multiple final level warnings for vandalism when they clearly did not vandalise, see WP:NOTVANDAL and you are not supposed to issue a warning that is meant to be final again and again, for example you reverted this addition of hyperlinks by a new user @HistorianAlferedo: and issued them a final warning for vandalism, when no one would ever regard that edit as vandalism. You reverted this sourced and well explained edit by the same user and gave them a final warning for vandalism Similar thing here . You also restored your warnings after they had cleared them despite being aware of the fact that when a user clears their talkpage it is assumed they have read it. The fact that you do not understand that you were abusing the warnings and are now deflecting the blame saying admins told you to do that is very concerning. Nxcrypto Message 02:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Rasteem

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Rasteem

Answers to all questions: 

1. That was the first article I ever created using sources rather than creating a list page before creating this page, I was aware of COPYVIO but I wasn't fully aware of close paragraphing So when I received a general note on 01:32, 1 November 2024 for this mistake I didn't repeat such a mistake again and will also not repeat it in the future.

2. I moved this page from Hoysala Kingdom to Hoysala kingdom, giving an edit summary "move per WP:TITLECAPS". I thought the word "Kingdom" was not the part of the full name. That's why I moved this page, I also did the same thing for other pages, including the Chand Kingdom,Kumaon Kingdom, , Kampili Kingdom, and Katyuri Kingdom After getting a general notice on November 1, 2024 About moving the Hoysala Kingdom page, I make sure to be more careful and avoid making similar mistakes.

3. 1st time on 22:44, 29 October 2024 I moved Hoysala Kingdom > Hoysala kingdom then the 2nd time over redirect on 21:29, 31 October 2024 but with the gap of 2 days (29 October - 31 October) when I moved the same page twice, I explained my reason that '"Revert page-move vandalism (WP:MOVEVANDAL): Read WP:TITLECAPS & "Kingdom" is not a part of the full name. This doesn't require any consensus." same as I explained above in my answer #2 after this general note regarding this page move, I didn't make a similar mistake. It was my mistake I truly apologize for this mistake in feature I'll consider making request for controversial page moves on WP:RM/TR.

5. On Political marriages in India there was a content dispute among different editors. This was my first time dealing with a disagreement about article content, which accidentally led to an edit war in answer#8 I've explained in depth. I talked to the editor who reverted my edits, and we discussed it on my talk page. I explained that I didn't mean to conduct an edit war. I was also the main person adding more information to the article. Further, I was the one who mostly worked on expanding this article. It was actually a content dispute. Not intentionally an edit war; also, this was the first time I had ever seen such a situation, and I explained my intention on my talk page with the fellow editor, where I clearly explain my intention was not to conduct an edit war.   Furthermore, I discussed the same issue with a fellow editor on his talk page and also on talk page of an admin. Where I share my concern that there might be a content dispute and I'm only receiving edit warning notices just after making constructive edits on Rajput, Rajput clans, and Political marriages in India, here are diffs to read my conversation. On User talk:Adamantine123 on 21:30, 9 November 2024 also on Talk:ToBeFree on 11:25, 10 November 2024

6. About General notice of WP:GSCASTE I gave an explanation to an editor who gave me this general contentious topic notice. Also, I gave a full explanation about considering his warning as a retaliatory warning & I provided him full reasonable explanation. further in more depth the same issue I discussed in question question#5, where I discussed with Admin:ToBeFree where he explained. General contentious notice by a user was okay, but it should only be given to a user once.

7. First of all, my addition in Zafar Khan's paragraph as Jat ruler was only a copyedit per the cited source in subheading of Muzaffarid dynasty.

The independent kingdom of Gujarat was founded by Zafar Khan, son of Sadharan, a Jat convert to Islam. Sadharan's sister was married to Firuz Tughluq. Zafar Khan was appointed gover- nor of Gujarat in 1391, with the title Muzaffar Khan.

I wasn't trying to promote a specific POV. My goal was simply to make sure the text matched what the source claimed. I first copyedited this paragraph per cited source. My edit was labeled as a shameful attempt with a provoking comment on Talk page I reverted this edit, considering it POV pushing. When my same edit was reverted by a different editor, I didn't make further attempts to reinstate it.

8. This was my first experience unintentionally engaging in any edit war, during which I unintentionally committed a 3RR violation on 9 November, 2024. At the time, 'I was unaware that the 3RR policy not only applies to making reverts using rollback/revert features of Twinkle on the same page three times within 24 hours but also apply removing other users's edits through manually or undo features; it also counts as a revert'. So I wasn't really aware that it also counts as a revert if you manually or using undo remove edits of another editor, and I was not in the intention of conducting an edit war.  I accidentally broke the 3RR rule: 1st revert was manually removing content, then two reverts were making 2RR using the Twinkle tool. I sincerely apologize, and I'll make a promise that I will not conduct 3RR in the feature please accept my apology considering it my first & last mistake of violating 3RR with the lack of knowledge of the 3RR rule in depth.  So when I claimed I didn't conduct an edit war, I said it in the sense that I made only 2 reverts using the twinkle tool's feature rollback on Political marriages in India then how do I conduct 3RR? So then a fellow editor, told me that I conducted an edit war, but this was truly unintentionally; further, from 9th October till now, I didn't violate 3RR on any pages and will always refrain from making this type of mistake again. Later I truly came to know the 3RR rule. That said  "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert." Also this issue I had discussed here that my intention was not to conduct any edit war. Mistakenly for the first time, 3RR was conducted by myself without any intention or knowing the bold rule of 3RR that on the same page we're not allowed to remove edits of other editors, not just using the Rollback/revert feature but also not allowed to remove manually or using undo option within 24hr. I'd like to leave an explanation in my defense without any motive of PA "NXcrypto" himself intentionally or unintentionally violate 3RR rule. Most recently, he violated 3RR on Magadhan Empire on 17 October within 3_hours (Time 6:32 to 9:14). page is now deleted through AFD. When with diffs, I explained this on Misplaced Pages:Requests for permissions/Rollback he considered it as "Poison the well/or personal attack". So I think he should understand everyone makes mistakes when he made the same mistake on 17 November, 2024, and I made the same mistake for the first on 9 November, 2024 on political marriages in India. 

9. There was a misunderstanding about the author Priyanka Khanna, as there are more than one authors with the same names in India. 1st Priyanka Khanna I mistakenly thought she was the author of that particular journal. But second, Priyanka Khanna, who actually wrote the journal, was this one.  

10. As I'm allowed to remove my own talk page messages after reading it. Also, an admin confirmed that I'm allowed to remove all notices/messages from my talk page. after reading such notices or replying. Also, I've briefly explained to a fellow editor why I consider his warning notices as retaliatory warnings. I've answered this in answers #6 with a diff. 

11. On 20:19, 14 November 2024 After this bold revert, I didn't make any further reverts on this page. And left a notice on 20:41, 14 November 2024 on Talk: Political marriages in India regarding recent revert and removal of sourced content following the WP:BRD rule.

12. After posting the last comment on Talk: Political marriages in India, the next day on 12:01, 15 November 2024 I restored the revision of Adamantine123, and after this I didn't make any reverts or changes on this page, so I did follow WP:BRD rule from 14 November till now. 

13. I didn't try to poison the well against anyone after this comment by NXcrypto "I assume Rasteem is on the verge of getting topic banned for his aggressive and frequent edit warring, especially on caste topics. I really don't think he can be trusted with any advanced permissions at all.""Where he didn't justify how the caste based topic ban is relevant or a matter without actual conduct of disruptions/non conservative edits or true violation of WP:CASTE. In my defense, I briefly gave my explanations; my replies weren't in the intention of P_Attacks At least I have the right to give my explanations. Don't I have the right?. So I just gave my explanations when NXcrypto said, "Rasteem on the verge of topic ban on caste related pages without any actual meaning or going off topic". 

14. I was advised by an experienced administrator that you have to leave an edit warning for every revert you made without digging into the number of edits of a user or edit history. Please read here when I request a rollback right. Admin: Fastily advised me. When I asked him, it will be a Back Bitting? He replied, No, that's not correct. If I give many edit warnings for each edit revert I made or give an edit warning to a user just after their one or two edits on Misplaced Pages. He replied that's incorrect, and it is necessary to leave an edit warning for each revert you made. Where I assure to Fastily further, I'll always give an edit warning notice even for a single revert I made against the revision of any user/IP without counting their number of edits. So it was not any Abuses warning templates on a new user's talk pages. As I was advised to do by an admin, I was following up admin's advice.

Note for the Admin:

Without going wrong, I'd like to explain that I had no interaction with NXcrypto before the first, and the final interaction was only on Political marriages in India. On my rollback request, when the admin asked for his opinion, he claimed Rasteem is on the verge of the topic ban. Later he filed this report instead of resolving the content dispute on Talk page. He filed this report, which seems like a coordinated attempt to get rid of edit disputes from Arbitration Enforcement. I'll request the admin please also consider this. I had no interaction with this user before the first interaction, which was only on Political marriages in India, where he reverted mine, @Admantine123: & LukeEmily's edits. First he claimed I'm on the verge of a topic ban, then he filed this report, which is fine, but I think he did this after a content dispute that we had on Political marriages in India. Same kind of issue I discussed with Admin:ToBeFree that something is wrong; why I'm getting edit warnings notices just after making constructive edits on Rajput page & Political marriages in India.

I acknowledge and apologize for the mistakes I made, all of which were first-time errors. I've learned from them and taken steps for the correction. Consider these mistakes I conduct for the first time as a beginner or learner in different areas of the encyclopedia. I'll not repeat these mistakes again, not even repeated since these all happened. In the 1st, 2nd-3rd, and 5-6 answers, I admit my mistakes and apologize for these mistakes. These mistakes include the first time I violated close paragraphing, then twice moved the page Hoysala Kingdom, and then violated the 3RR, which is unintentionally conduct in the content dispute on Political marriages in India. I have discussed for consensus on Talk page for content dispute resolution; my last comment was also for the consensus, NXcrypto did not participate in any talk page discussion, filed this report, and he was directly involved in the content dispute at Political marriages in India.

I'll request to the admin Please check the history of this particular page where ( from 10 October-November 2024), my first interaction with NXcrypto was on this page, and we both had a content dispute. Further, NXcrypto also had edit warnings and content disputes with other editors like @Adamantine123: & @LukeEmily:

Statement by (username)

Statement by LukeEmily

Looking at their edit history, I think Rasteem is doing a good job across wikipedia. I have had very brief interactions with @Rasteem:. Came across this page when I was posting a message on their talkpage and was surprised to find this complaint. I do not see any POV pushing for any caste by Rasteem. Most of the above items seem to be unintentional innocent mistakes - made by many senior editors - and I will go through each of them one by one. For example, Priyanka Khanna misidentification might just be because google showed up the incorrect search results. They are also polite, for example - here they even apologised to @Adamantine123: although it was not necessary. I don't think any ban is necessary.LukeEmily (talk) 22:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Result concerning Rasteem

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Definitely seeing some caste shenanigans and edit warring, although the edit warring is fairly widespread. Interested in seeing the response. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Rasteem: your response is now over 2,000 words. Per the instructions, can you please summarize this within 500 words and 20 diffs or ask for a (small!) extension to the word limit and summarize it to the new word limit. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 08:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

1. Indian History. Allied Publishers. 1988. pp. B_131. ISBN 978-81-8424-568-4. Gujarat: The independent kingdom of Gujarat was founded by Zafar Khan, son of Sadharan, a Jat convert to Islam. Sadharan's sister was married to Firuz Tughluq. Zafar Khan was appointed gover- nor of Gujarat in 1391, with the title Muzaffar Khan.