Talk:Chanakya: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 19:54, 12 December 2024 editJoshua Jonathan (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers107,123 edits OneClickArchived "Wrong birthplace" to Talk:Chanakya/Archive 1 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:54, 12 December 2024 edit undoJoshua Jonathan (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers107,123 edits OneClickArchived "Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2021" to Talk:Chanakya/Archive 1 Next edit →
Line 9:		Line 9:
	{{archivebox\|]}}		{{archivebox\|]}}
	{{PageViews graph}}		{{PageViews graph}}

	== Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2021 ==

	{{edit semi-protected\|Chanakya\|answered=yes}}
	Chanakya was Born in Patliputra. And he moved Takshila to study and then became a teacher in Takshila ] (]) 17:37, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
	::This is correct. He was born in Patliputra, the capitol of Maghadha and went to Takshasila to study, before going back to Pataliutra.] (]) 16:18, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
	:Please provide sourcing for anything you'd like added to the article. Thanks. ] (]) 17:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

	== Proposed merge of ] into ] ==		== Proposed merge of ] into ] ==

Revision as of 19:54, 12 December 2024

This

level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group.

Military history: Biography / Historiography / Asian / Indian / South Asia / Classical

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Military historiography task force
	Asian military history task force
	Indian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force
	Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)

India: Bihar / Patna / History Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Bihar (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Patna (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article was last assessed in August 2013.

Hinduism Mid‑importance

	Hinduism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Philosophy: Philosophers / Social and political / Eastern / Ancient High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Philosophers
	Social and political philosophy
	Eastern philosophy
	Ancient philosophy

Politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Talk:Chanakya/Archive_1

Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. Updates on reimplementing the Graph extension, which will be known as the Chart extension, can be found on Phabricator and on MediaWiki.org.

Proposed merge of Kutayuddha into Chanakya

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The Result was Oppose. In 24 days, only one comment on this proposal. Closure is indicated. --Whiteguru (talk) 09:22, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Under the section titled "Chanakyan vocabulary", kutayuddha will be provided with more context. The sources currently in the article for Kutayuddha such as Kaushik Roy's 2015 book (Cambridge University Press) have a chapter titled "Kautilya's Kutayuddha" and Giri Deshingkar has titled his piece "Strategic Thinking of Kautilya and Sun Zi", again pointing to Kautilya. DTM (talk) 06:24, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose Though it seems that it was coined by Chanakya, as reliably referenced in the article, it is found in other contexts also. UNDUE in Chanakya. --Redtigerxyz 14:47, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why just philospher

Acharya Chanakya Is All side of thinker Wether its political science or war feild or either creating akhand bharta Acharya Chanakya Skillful in evry feild 21aryan (talk) 18:18, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Chankya didn’t create Akhanda Bharat. He only helped Chandragupta Mauryan empire. Mauryan empire didn’t even reach its peak during his time. It reached peak during Ashoka. ChandlerMinh (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Info

Please don't put wrong information 21aryan (talk) 05:27, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Kehna kyaa chaahte ho… ChandlerMinh (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please Sumit Halzed (talk) 07:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Not done It's not clear what your request is. Please use "Change X to Y" format. Adakiko (talk) 08:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Social

Chanakya 103.24.22.34 (talk) 16:30, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Plays--Adityatejwani (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC) Indian television actor Manoj Joshi has been doing the role of Chanakya in the play that goes by the same name since 1990 . Initially starting in Gujarati language , it was enacted in Hindi since 1993-94 and since then it has been enacted more than a thousand times till 2018 across various Indian cities and platforms in theatres and colleges . Today Joshi who is now a padmashree still plays the lead role in the play inspiring millions across India.

Source https://m.rediff.com/amp/movies/special/he-has-played-chanakya-1039-times/20180310.htm

https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/television/manoj-joshi-has-grand-plans-for-silver-jubilee-of-play-chanakya/lite/

https://m.timesofindia.com/tv/news/hindi/manoj-joshi-has-been-playing-chanakya-since-24-years/articleshow/45660396.cms

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/File:Chankay_Play_Manoj_Joshi.JPG] Adityatejwani (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 14:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

IP edit request

This is an edit request that an IP left on my user-talk page. But I'm not clear (at all) on what the IP is asking for. Can anyone help? – S. Rich (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

"== Chanakya == Please! correct an information about chanakya he belongs to "Bhumihar Brahmin" not "Brahmin" caste. ] (]) 14:10, 16 June 2023 (UTC)"

Dates of birth and death

Hello dear Misplaced Pages, After consulting the cited sources I couldn’t find any proof for the given dates of birth and death. The dates itself lack any citation. Where did the dates come from and is there a source? Many publications give random dates somewhere around the time given in the article. But I couldn’t find a source yet to illustrate how these dates came to be. Flaverius (talk) 10:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Arthashastra author

@Joshua Jonathan Could you explain this edit ? Nxcrypto Message 07:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I already did, what don't you understand about it? The text was written after Chanakya's life, so these attributions are baseless, aren't they? And: WP:LEAD summarizes the article; this is not in the article. So, why would we have this here? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan, The sources you have removed are reliable. Many scholars attribute the Arthashastra to Chanakya, though some parts may have been later additions. Nxcrypto Message 08:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Olivelle dates the earliest parts to 150 BCE, and rejects the identification of Kautilya with Chanakya. That's a very solid source. Other authors also reject the identification; see here and here. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Only Olivelle doesn;t hold full scholarship. Most of the source I think references Trauttman, who proposed the hypothesis, However they aren't all-knowing and so, in my information, the current edits doesn't convey what we calls a Fact and therefore be restored to earlier version. Don't know why the lede information be mentioned like these and someo fthe reliable sources be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.35.27.223 (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Even Olivelle associates him as an advisor of Chandragupta; Trauttman says him same historical figure as "Chandragupta or Nanda" . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:40E4:3F:100B:DD84:67EE:22DD:8439 (talk) 16:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan, the identification you provided regarding Chanakya/Kautilya and the dating of the Arthashastra is supported by some scholars but not universally. There are several other scholars who present differing views on this matter.

It is widely accepted that Chanakya and Kautilya are the same individual, credited as the author of the Arthashastra. Numerous reliable scholarly sources support this conclusion :

Pg 151 : The Arthasastra or 'Manual of Politics' which may possibly be the real work of Chanakya or Kautilya and therefore written about 300 B.C.
—The Cambridge history of India, Volume I

Pg 7 : Perhaps the most esoteric work was the Arthasastra of Kautilya (Chanakya, believed to be prime minister of Chandragupta in southern India, circa 300 B.C.), translated by Shamasastry (1909).
— Studies in Machiavellianism by Richard Christie & Florence L. Geis

Pg 1416 : Such departures were made since the sixth century BC, first, by heretical movements within religion, namely, Buddhism and Jainism, and, second, by the radically new, secular pragmatic theory of the state and government contained in the Arthashastra, attributed to Kautilya the mentor and minister of Chandragupta Maurуа (с. 321-298 BC), the founder of the Mauryan empire.
—The Oxford India companion to sociology and social anthropology by Veena Das

Pg 2 : This period (c. 320-185 в.с.) produced the Machiavellian system of statecraft associated with the name of the minister Kautilya, the reputed author of the famous Arthaśāstra
Pg 39(ref. note) : Kautalya, alternatively known as Kautilya and Chanakya, was the chief minister of Chandragupta Maurya and a work on political economy, the Arthasastra, is attributed to him.
—A Cultural History of India by Arthur Llewellyn Basham

Pg 1353 : In c.324/21 BC, with the help of Chanakya sometimes known as Kautilya an experienced brahmana statesman to whom is ascribed a comprehensive book on political economy and statecraft, the Arthashastra, he overthrew the Nanda king of Magadha (part of the modern Bihar State).
—The Oxford classical dictionary by Simon Hornblower and Antony Spawforth

Also read :

Pg 521 : He was advised by Kautilya (also called Chanakya) a very able but unscrupulous Brahman, to whom is attributed the Arthasastra, a guide to statecraft.
—The Columbia encyclopedia

Pg 64 : One of the individuals shaken by the debacle at Alexander's hands in northwest India was Chanakya, or Kautilya, a most highly regarded scholar at Takshashila University (near Rawalpindi).
—Historical Atlas, A Comprehensive History Of The World by Geoffrey Wawro

Pg 51 : His agent in effecting the revolution was Chanakya, also called Kautilya or Vishnugupta, a wily Brahmin, who became his minister.
—Oxford Student History of India by Vincent A. Smith

Nxcrypto Message 18:00, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

See the talkpage of Arthashastra. The identification of Kautilya with Chanakya is rejected by recent scholarship, as also noted by User:Fowler&fowler. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 18:07, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I have initiated the discussion on this page. Please provide your response here. Nxcrypto Message 18:12, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to repeat everything I've written there, or engage into two similar discussions. Your point is: It is widely accepted that Chanakya and Kautilya are the same individual, credited as the author of the Arthashastra. Numerous reliable scholarly sources support this conclusion. Incorrect; the attribution to Charnakya is often repeated, without a proper analysis or arguments. This in contrast to Trautmann, Olivelle and others; arguments which point to multiple authorship, and elements in the text which are incomptabile with a Mauryan time-frame (forbidding wooden defense works, while Pataliputra was defended with a wooden pallisade; the use of choral, which was imported, an import which started in the second century BCE). Olivelle also points out that most authors start with the traditional attribution to Charnakya, which automatically implies a date of composition at ca. 300 BCE; yet, the name Charnakya is not mentioned in the Arthashastra itself, nor in other texts until a couple of centuries after Charnakya and Chandragupta. The traditional attribution to Charnakya is precisely that: a traditional attribution, not a gistorical fact. It probably developed in Gupta-times, when the Guptas tried to present themselves as the heirs of the Mauryas. the AS was a popilar text then, and attributing it to Charnakya further fostered this identification of the Guptas with the Mauryas. See also this note. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 19:41, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

PS: please also provide the year of publication for those sources; most are probably pre-2013.

Ah yes, all of them:

The Cambridge history of India, Volume I, 1922
Studies in Machiavellianism by Richard Christie & Florence L. Geis 1970
The Oxford India companion to sociology and social anthropology by Veena Das 2003
A Cultural History of India by Arthur Llewellyn Basham 1975
The Oxford classical dictionary by Simon Hornblower and Antony Spawforth 2003
The Columbia encyclopedia 2000
Historical Atlas, A Comprehensive History Of The World by Geoffrey Wawro 2008
Oxford Student History of India by Vincent A. Smith 1908

I don't doubt you can compile a long list of such quotes, but quantity does not guarantee state of the art scholarship. Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 19:42, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Categories: