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On 12 December 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Abu Mohammad al-Julani to Ahmed al-Sharaa. The result of the discussion was Moved.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: December 8 to 14, 2024

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Abu Mohammad al Julani.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:21, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

More info on Julani

Hello, fellow humans. I was wondering if we could get some more hubbub on this article. The new documentary presents a plethora of information on this man, including civil right abuses and his ongoing war with ISIS. Like almost every civil war that breaks out in which there is multiple groups vying for control (not like Red vs Blue war, more like Green vs Violet vs Black vs Yellow kind of war,) there are people who will fight to survive, and Julani is one of them. I would recommend watching On the Ground News for more info if you want to add anything on this article, which documented HTS civil rights abuses and torture in their prisons. Please cite your sources when editing this article. May God be with you in this effort. Amen.
RandomGuyNamedDoug (talk) 04:37, 7 June 2021 (UTC)RandomGuyNamedDoug He was killed on November 1, 2024 in Idlib

English versus Arabic

The description of his early life in the Arabic language is very different from the English version. What is the reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0D:6FC0:98C:9800:A848:FD4E:15B9:AAC4 (talk) 22:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Why are we using his wanted picture from the US Department of Defense? It's old and elaborately chosen to illicit a certain impression.

Topic Avicerros (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I think we should use a photo from one of his public appearances from December 6th to 8th 2024. That makes the most sense, as they are new and high-quality. 91.230.13.164 (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Can you share such photo in a way that can be used on Misplaced Pages? Misplaced Pages:Image use policy אית11 (talk) 18:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The impression that he is a terrorist and former member of ISIS? Who is paying you to get it changed? 2A02:C7E:2F6A:2400:B0C3:36F5:EFD7:5917 (talk) 15:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

He was never a member of ISIS. The picture is old, low quality and deliberately chosen by the US State for propaganda. It has no business IMO being the front picture. Wiki isn't meant for propagating state propaganda. Avicerros (talk) 04:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Change Name and Picture

This photo from US department of defence is really old and i recommend a new pic such as this one during his meeting with CNN https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/jolani-photo3.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_833,w_1480,c_fill Also Rename His Page to Ahmed al-Shar'a Because Jolani is currently "an old nickname" according to this source https://www.alarabiya.net/arab-and-world/syria/2024/12/05/%D8%B2%D8%B9%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%8A%D8%AA%D8%AE%D9%84%D9%89-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%87%D8%B0%D9%87-%D8%AD%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A- Wiki Lord of War (talk) 09:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Image use policy, read it. אית11 (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

it would be easiest if/when the new government releases an image itself. that tends to be in the public domain. Cononsense (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Why use an image that doesn't represent him for the last decade? there must be a legal one out there. --Inayity (talk) 15:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Transliteration of name

Hi. Whilst I was doing an out of interest search after reading the news, I corrected a double redirect of Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani to here. Then reading the name, I note in the heading that the "nom de guerre" is spelled "al-Julani". When you click on the note though, at the bottom it suggest the transliteration should be "Abū Muḥammad al-Jawlānī". How did we end up with al-Julani in the heading, when the apparent transliteration should be the better one to put at the top? - Master Of Ninja (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

iam native arabic speaker, Julani is true While Jawlani is nonsense

arabs call Golan Heights : Julan(Gulan in some areas such as lower egypt) Wiki Lord of War (talk) 11:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. When you look at BBC News it is spelled "Jawlani", and the other wikipedia pages about the mountain and even in this article have it transliterated at "Jawlani". It's good to get clarity on this. - Master Of Ninja (talk) 20:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

According to the article's text, his family is from the Golan Heights, which the arab speaker commenting earlier said is sometimes called "Julan". Either way, the nom de guerre reflects familial place of origin. The "aw" sound in "Jawlani" is one western way to approximate the sound of the "o" when it's westernly spelled "Golani" or the "u" when "Julan. Clarity about the root of the nom de guerre might best be served in spelling it "Golani" in English wikipedia as that seems to correspond to how the locale is mostly spelled in English news and other publications. FWIW, the subtitle of this Ha'aretz article https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2024-12-13/ty-article/.premium/the-most-courted-leader-in-the-middle-east-still-has-no-state/00000193-bd89-d27e-ad97-bdfd9ba50000 dated 13 Dec 2024 helps clarify name issues further: "Ahmed A-Shara, the leader of the Syrian rebel organizations that ousted Assad ... has returned to his original name and is no longer calling himself al-Golani." Qassander (talk) 09:21, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Consensus on photo

Backgrounder: as can be found on the Misplaced Pages:Image use policy, the Misplaced Pages community decided years ago that all images must be in the public domain or freely reusable and remixable by commercial entities. Very few exceptions to the policy exist and none seem relevant. It's not within my (or anyone else's) power to immediately change the policy.

File:Julani.png and File:Muhammad al-Jawlani.png are facing imminent deletion on Wikimedia Commons as copyright violations. The only image that we have that aligns with the aforementioned policy is File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg, which is from the subject's younger days and depicts him without a beard. That leaves us with three options to move forward.

Option 1: Remove all images from the page

Option 2: Use File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg as the infobox photo with adequate captioning and context

Option 3: Use File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg in the body

Use this thread to discuss options. Bremps... 23:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I vote for option #3, until we have a proper infobox photo. 2A01:5A8:47B:DE6A:BDAC:508E:B546:EB8D (talk) 10:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

What about File:Ahmed al-Sharaa (Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani).jpg? – Anwon (talk) 14:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

How about we use this image of Al-Jolani/Al-Sharaa? It's from January 2023 - https://levant24.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Jolani-e1672678917203.jpg Mage0023 (talk) 23:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

We can't use any image outside of Wikimedia Commons as the image you linked isn't freely licensed. – Anwon (talk) 09:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Option 3, the 20-year-old mugshot is practically misleading at this point and looks nothing like his current appearance. No requirement that this article have a photo in the infobox. —Ganesha811 (talk) 04:30, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  The worst photograph ever clicked whose subject is al jolani has been added to the lede to make him look like a lowlife comedic criminal. Extremely unencyclopedian stuff. Please look into it. Theofunny (talk) 16:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

"His group has established an administration in its controlled territory, collecting taxes, providing public services, and issuing identity cards to residents."

Don't forget to mention that there is free pizza on Inclusion Fridays.

Talk about whitewashing a Takfiri terrorist. Post-truth beyond imagination. 201.195.126.136 (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is for information, not for propaganda Blastedblox (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

"His Excellency"

What's up with this? Did he already become the president of Syria? Source? He rather seems like a kingmaker for now. Beshogur (talk) 19:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Which romanization is used for Arabic transcription into the latin script?

It's not explicitly mentioned anywhere and there are tons of different versions. Does anyone have information on this? 91.230.13.164 (talk) 20:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024

This edit request to Abu Mohammad al-Julani has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the section Resurgence of al-Nusra, add a space after Al-Jazera. Currently says "Al-Julani told al-Jazeerain 2015" JodaDoesMusicAndStuff (talk) 20:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's fixed, thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Fix the Formatting?

When entering this page, I noticed that Shar'a/Julani's wikibox seems to have been formatted incorrectly. I presume this'll be amended soon enough, but it would still be best to raise it as an issue to be fixed. Walpole2019 (talk) 20:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Julani is merely the HTS leader

Let us not get ahead of ourselves. The designation of Jolani as "de facto leader of Syria" is, at the very least, debatable. The only institutional, executive authority in Syria at the moment (and even with some doubts) is Muhammad al-Bashir, the designated PM, until now PM of the rebel, HTS-supported and Idlib-based Syrian Salvation Government.--Zarateman (talk) 10:37, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

However, some RS has called him this. Besides, isn't a de facto leader kinda by definition separate from a transitional de jure leader like al-Bashir

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/09/politics/who-is-the-leader-of-syrias-rebels-and-what-does-he-want/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/syria-new-leader-two-identities-ahmed-al-sharaa-abu-mohammed-al-jolani Cononsense (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

add Template

Can Template:Authority control be added to the article?   Mohammed Qays  (🗣) 11:24, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Rewards for Justice deadlink and new link

Gentlemen, the reference numbered 15 which contains a link to the U.S. State Department's Rewards for Justice website is dead the new link is here, or you can find it using their search engine https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/muhammad-al-jawlani/ 130.74.58.96 (talk) 12:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

It looks archived now, thanks for pointing it out though Bremps... 19:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 12 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ahmed al-Sharaa. Consensus for move based on widespread shift in usage among reliable secondary sources. —Ganesha811 (talk) 04:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Abu Mohammad al-Julani → Ahmed al-Sharaa – He no longer uses his nom de guerre and thus a large number of RS are switching to primarily using his real name. A move to his real name also avoids having to make a choice between Jolani/Julani/Golani/Jawlani. Some of the news organisations which use his real name: Reuters, Al Jazeera, The Guardian Chessrat 09:24, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• *Support per nom. Sources are now switching up to using "Ahmed al-Sharaa" instead of "Abu Mohammad al-Julani". Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 11:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC) Sock stricken. C F A 03:25, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
• Wait. It's too early to say anything conclusive on the matter. The person might continue to be called with the nickname, and currently not all sources are making a switch. (the Guardian for example, the linked article just stated that the person in question has been using their real name on official papers for a while. Live blogs and news still use Jolani.) ahmetlii  _{(Please ping me on a reply!)} 11:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--فيصل (talk) 13:52, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Do Not Support he is more widely known as Jolani. --Inayity (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - his pseudonym is more known than his real name. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 17:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose At this point al-Julani is what he is widely referred to in reliable media and sources. --Drako (talk) 19:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, he himself is called Ahmed al-Sharaa and relinquiches his nom de guerre. Media is also calling him Ahmed al-Sharaa more often. DerEchteJoan (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support Various sources are referring to him by his actual name.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/11/syrias-al-sharaa-promises-to-punish-those-who-tortured-killed-detainees

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/middleeast/syria-hts-al-jolani-profile-intl/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/syria-new-leader-two-identities-ahmed-al-sharaa-abu-mohammed-al-jolani

Even Syrian State TV referred to him by his actual name after Anti-Government militants took over state TV. Mage0023 (talk) 21:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The common name is still Abu Mohammad al-Julani. Khiikiat (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Also what the fuck did you do to his picture used the most ugly photo when hundreds others are possible Yesyesmrcool (talk) 00:32, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  Please use civil language or you may be banned from editing Misplaced Pages, it isn't a forum like Reddit. I say this because I see that you are new here. Theofunny (talk) 16:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  Personally, i've seen some messages with profanity. They've also been used to direct personal attacks towards me, but at the same time they are used for slang language. I don't know about that... 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 19:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support he signs official statements as al-Sharaa. Also, what on earth is that photo, he looks like a twelve-year-old. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  The photo taken almost 20 years ago is when he was captured by the US. This is the only picture of him currently permitted on Misplaced Pages, so it's on there. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 03:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  I think no photo is better honestly, or the one that was on here previously to 6 December. The current image is actively misleading about his appearance This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 05:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose because Jolani is still his common name. Also find my guy a better pic with his bread Abo Yemen✉ 07:15, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  Support per Hujjat al-Umari Abo Yemen✉ 18:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose currently till he gets an official post and the govt announce his official name. There are possibility of him getting post like Supreme leader. Therealbey (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  Comment not that it's relevant to the RM but I don't think there's any evidence of him getting a post in the new transitional government? He's still HTS military leader. Chessrat 09:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  not in this transitional govt but in future as he is now most powerful person in Syria. There is a possibility he can become supreme leader of Syria and if that happens then govt of Syria at that time will announce and also Oppose because of WP:COMMONNAME Therealbey (talk) 17:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support agree with nomVeritasphere (talk) 14:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: al-Julani, Jolani is still his common name and this is available in most of the sources. Acratopotes (talk) 15:38, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, because it's his actual name, save his military activity.--Noel baran (talk) 15:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support no longer using his name. Media starting to refer with his name. Beshogur (talk) 16:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: He is nearly always referred to as al-Julani, so per WP:COMMONNAME.. yea ~eticangaaa (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, for same reasons as nomination Epicradman123 (talk) 18:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: more people/sources known him as Abu Muhammad Al-Julani or just Julani, at the very least just wait to see if sources would use his real name than Julani Durranistan (talk) 16:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Support per Hujjat al-Umari. This article uses both and explicitly uses Shara'a as a way to describe him as the post-offensive leader and Jolani as his kunya during the war. Jebiguess (talk) 22:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support: per nom. Sources are now using al-Sharaa is now being far more widely used that al-Julani. Masterofcapacitors (talk) 21:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

*Comment: Sources are rapidly changing in using "Ahmed al-Sharaa" now instead of his former nom de guerre. Here is a list of well-known sources that have switched to using "Ahmed al-Sharaa"

I could go on to list hundreds if not thousands of sources like that, although I think it's sufficient for now. It's time for Misplaced Pages to change the name as well, following the precedent of sources. Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 17:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Sock stricken. C F A 03:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support pretty clear the international media is referring to him by his real name now. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 21:41, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support He is no longer referring to himself as al-Julani.
• Strongly oppose per WP:Commonname. Al-Joulani remains the popular name in public & many other media. I just came to know this name after visiting the article. Pretty sure for most of people. Ahammed Saad (talk) 17:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

On what basis do you consider "al-Joulani" to be "popular name in public & many other media"? ABC, BBC, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, Euronews, Washington Post, The Syrian Observer, Reuters, the Time Magazine etc. have all switched to using "Ahmed al-Sharaa" instead of his former nom de guerre Abu Mohammed al-Joulani. Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 20:00, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Sock stricken. C F A 03:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Al-Julani remains the well circulated name for last few days & now has become his popular & well-recognised name in public. I have seen most media use both names in their reports to avoid distinguish, cause a large number of people wouldn't recognise if they use al-Shaara. I want know what Syrian media write his name. It would certainly be better to follow his own country's perception. Ahammed Saad (talk) 05:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support per Hujjat al-Umari. –yeagvr · ✉ 23:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per @Hujjat al-Umari, news and diplomatic sources dropped his nom de guerre it seems. NAADAAN (talk) 00:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per WP:Commonname - I initially opposed it, but it appears that the majority of english language sources (e.g, wapo, nytimes, bbc, reuters, AP, etc) have rapidly switched to using his real name. most likely others will follow since he's only using his real name now that the war is over. Cononsense (talk) 00:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support, prefer wait for 1-3 months. Note rationales above, that has moved to his true name rather than nom de guerre. Also avoids the different spellings of nom de guerre. Prefer wait for now, for things to settle down, as my only involvement with this page was re-targetting a re-direct, which then subsequently got further re-targetted. We cannot yo-yo between names. Although I suspect in 3 months time, it will come down to support for most people. - Master Of Ninja (talk) 06:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support I support it on the basis that all "Military operations command" (HTS and allies) are officially calling him "Ahmad Al-Shara" and also media organs linked with new Syrian transtional govt & all the fact most prominent international media and regional media sites had also started calling him Ahmad Al-Shara instead of Al-Jolani so in my view makes a strong case for changing title of his page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam6897 (talk • contribs) 14:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Hujjat al-Umari. Niryhpr (talk) 14:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rakyat Merdeka (citing Reuters, p.13): "Ahmed al-Sharaa, who previously used the name Abu Mohammed al-Julani."

• Support The Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA), the Syrian government broadcaster, calls him Ahmed al-Sharaa, the leader of the new administration. --Spanshow (talk) 16:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Support I support it because first of all, Ahmed al-Shar'a is his real name, and secondly, just because he is more commonly known by his nom de guerre doesn't mean that we should keep that name as the title of the page. Even he now starts saying his real name. Therefore, I think we should change it.

  Richie1509 (talk) 09:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

  just because he is more commonly known by his nom de guerre doesn't mean that we should keep that name as the title of the page.
  please read wikipedia:CommonName Abo Yemen✉ 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose currently; Although indeed some sources begin to change, he is still widely known as Al-Julani in Western societies, as even the media that use the birthname always need to clarify that he was "previously known as...". Given that the events are still on going, perhaps the English WP could wait a little; If the trend in Western media to use the birthname continues, then the decision will be clear. Piccco (talk) 15:00, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Support because Ahmed al-Shara' is his real name. Also, he has been widely described as Ahmed al-Shara' in news reports, and it is the common name. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Skitash (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Comment A few people here have used WP:COMMONNAME for "Oppose" votes but with no explanation- how can "Jolani" possibly be the common name when almost all news sources refer to him by his real name? Are there any sources for the claim that it is the common name? Chessrat 04:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 December 2024

This edit request to Abu Mohammad al-Julani has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

ISI was separate from Al-Qadea DayofGrasp (talk) 04:36, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please specify which sentence it is. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:03, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we remove or replace al-Julani's Picture since it's so outdated?

al-Julani's picture in the infobox is 18 years old, and since there is no more authorized pictures of him on wikipedia, (there is one more but its at risk of being deleted) should we just remove it? 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 05:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

SUPPORT - the image is from literally 2006. He does not look the same AT ALL today. איתן קרסנטי (talk) 11:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

YES! Not only is this picture significantly outdated, it’s also just ugly, though that’s not really a reason to remove it inherently Natalieeeeeee (talk) 18:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Probably a troll added it. 2A02:3030:A66:46CB:F77:C694:17BB:6D9F (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Personally I dont believe that a 'troll' added it but ok 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. It's probably the only photo anyone will ever come up with where one can see his features. Later he largely disappeared behind a jihadi beard, which works like a mask. He has a strong expression on it, it's far from bad or "ugly"; and 'pretty' is not a criterion for a jihadist commander, or has everything turned upside down? Arminden (talk) 19:13, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

“Jihadi beard” im pretty sure it’s just a normal, if not American normal but middle eastern normal styling for a beard. Misplaced Pages is used as a reference source. We should then refer to what someone looks like in the modern day, not almost 2 decades ago Natalieeeeeee (talk) 19:17, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

most objective wikipedia editor lmao "jihadi beard" 92.16.223.194 (talk) 10:15, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

We should use his picture as we don't have free alternative pictures. Shadow4dark (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Consensus has been reached, 3 in favour and 1 against. We are not adding back al-Julani's picture. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 22:16, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Put it in the body to illustrate his time at Abu Ghraib (a number of statesmen have their mugshots on their article), and be patient until a free picture eventually comes. NAADAAN (talk) 23:49, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

consensus has already been reached. 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 23:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Recent edit

Hi,

Hujjat al-Umari, could you revert your most recent edit that removed the World Weekly ref?

Though the link is dead, the archived link still works.

Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 08:12, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I have reverted my edit. Regards, Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 08:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

middle name

@Hujjat al-Umari, Sharaa's patronymic was given as "Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa" in the PBS documentary and when he first identified himself in 2016. This fits with Syrian naming conventions. I think the patronymic should be included per MOS:FULLNAME (which gives the example of Gaddafi for instance). It's fine if you disagree with that insofar as you have a good argument, I'm not going to cause a fuss over a middle name. NAADAAN (talk) 18:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

In the PBS documentary, Martin Smith stated that his name was Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa; he did not identify himself as "Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa". Also, having a middle name is not always a part of Syrian naming conventions e.g. Farouk al-Sharaa, Hafez al-Assad. Yes, some sources do in fact use "Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa" in the same way many sources use "Bashar Hafez al-Assad" for Bashar al-Assad but that doesn't necessarily mean they legally have a middle name. There were previous attempts on Bashar's article to have his name as "Bashar Hafez al-Assad" but the issue with both al-Assad and al-Sharaa is that we need any legal documents confirming their middle name. As for al-Sharaa, I cannot find any solid evidence, either from himself or HTS or Syrian state media, claiming "Hussein" is his middle name. I would have no problem if the middle name is legally reported. One of the only sources I found in which he talks about his real name in this article of The New Arab, in which it's stated: During the meetings he attended, Al-Jolani revealed that his real name is Ahmed Al-Sharaa, and that his father, Hussein Ali Al-Sharaa, was an economist....". If you do have any legal source claiming "Hussein" is a part of his surname, I would be more than ready to re-add it to the article. Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 19:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need a "legal source", if a highly reliable source (PBS) referred to him that way, I think that's good enough for inclusion here unless other sources report conflicting information. —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I mean again, several well-known sources have used "Bashar Hafez al-Assad" for Bashar al-Assad, including CNN, Jewish Virtual Library, Deccan Herald, Turkish state agency etc. but we do not have that name as it has not been confirmed by Bashar himself, his family or state media; the same goes for Ahmed al-Sharaa. The only instance I can find in which he tells about himself is The New Arab article I linked above and in that he used "Ahmed al-Sharaa". Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't know what a "legal source" would be, his identity papers? The earliest English source mentioning him in 2016 has his middle name. I also feel like that a number of sources omit his patronymic for convenience's sake (few people are going to refer to "Yahya Ibrahim Hassan Sinwar" for instance).

BTW, his article on Arabic Misplaced Pages refers to him as "Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa" (citing 5 sources) in the lede; Assad's Arabic page refers to him as "Bashar Hafez Ali al-Assad". "Bashar Hafez al-Assad" is indeed present on the English article as well, on the "birth name" parameter of his infobox, personally I'd add it into the article as well but that's beyond the point. NAADAAN (talk) 23:47, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

See, again there are several sources like the one you one having "Hussein" in his middle name but either we need a legal source (yes identity papers would count) or al-Sharaa himself saying his full name as "Ahmed Hussein al-Sharaa". The only source in which he describes his name is The New Arab's in which he calls himself "Ahmed al-Sharaa". Also, the Arabic page doesn't really mean anything as there's a lot of misinformation there; "Bashar Hafez Ali al-Assad" is only used by one source on the entire internet, some King Henry9 website. That full name is never used by any WP:RS. Again, if you find any legal source or if not, then any source in which al-Sharaa tells his actual name, I would be willing to put the middle name. Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 08:12, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

See MOS:FULLNAME for a relevant guideline, which states that the subject's full name, if known, should usually be given in the lead sentence (including middle names, if known, or middle initials). Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version in most cases. Given that reliable sources have used Hussein as his middle name, and with no actual Misplaced Pages policy requiring a "legal" source, I'm going to reinstate it in the lead. —Ganesha811 (talk) 19:26, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2024

This edit request to Abu Mohammad al-Julani has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

<< Grammatical/typo: Change >> It's stronghold was centered on the << to >> Its stronghold was centered on the Brewmanz (talk) 04:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done Shapeyness (talk) 14:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Picture

How do we not have a picture just take one from the cnn interview or something. Osirul (talk) 04:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Copyright issues. There used to be one. Ecpiandy (talk) 04:26, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Extremely Bad Photo which didn't even have consensus in the previous discussion has been added!

The worst photograph has been added to the article lede to make him look like some lowlife criminal for comedic effect and laughs. Extremely unencyclopedic stuff. Please look into it! Theofunny (talk) 16:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

for real, removed it :) 🗽Freedoxm🗽(talk • contribs) 19:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Official office since 8 December

Hi

Do you have a source about the Military Operations administration which rules the country since 8 December? Panam2014 (talk) 22:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please edit the hat note at the top of the article as "Julani" no longer redirects to this page. Ovioas,wo (talk) 18:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It has been changed. Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 21:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

De facto leader of Syria

See Talk:Syria#Include_Ahmed_al-Sharaa_as_de_facto_leader_of_Syria Beshogur (talk) 13:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

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